Vegas: The US is Not Mature Enough for Guns
- Thread starter robotdna
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270on420out
Active member
Interesting how conservatives like to skip over that "well regulated" part of the second amendment. I consider myself pro-gun, but to say the US doesn't have a gun problem is completely fucking naive.
TroyAntipasta
Member
13841153:theabortionator said:
Because we don't need to do something about guns that's why. No mentally sane person has ever had an issue with a gun or shot up a large group of people. Hypothetically lets say you completely banned guns in the U.S now the black market gun scene is gonna be even more rich than they are and bad people will still have guns. Also if you were to completely ban guns then the mentally insane people would be more inclined to make explosives and other means of terror that are far more destructive.
chacha33
Member
Honestly is there anything we can do? If people are truly on a mission to do massive amounts of harm to a large amount of people they're most likely going to succeed. Im not trying to be a pessimistic asshole here and I dont think its pointless to try to talk about changes that may prevent this kind of tragedy in the future, I just dont see any actual attainable solutions that would actually get implemented/work
13841282:MGK said:
If guns and our gun laws regarding them aren't an issue, why is there such an issue with guns in the states?
I get it, there's no perfect option, but saying that guns aren't an issue seems pretty ignorant given the state of things here.
TroyAntipasta
Member
13841295:theabortionator said:
I mean I get what you're saying and I get how that could be considered ignorant, but if someone managed to do the same damage with a different TOOL what would people be calling for then?
CaptainObvious.
Active member
13841291:chacha33 said:
This is where the mental health argument comes into play. Because you're right. If someone wants to kill people and they can't get a gun, they'll find a way to make it happen. We need to work on these mentally ill people. For any of you on NS who are in a dark place, having dark thoughts, feel like you can't trust yourself...talk to someone. Please. PM me, I'll talk to you. These things spawn from people who "seemed totally normal. Just a regular guy" because no one recognizes the signs and they're afraid to talk to anyone. Don't be.
profa_212
Active member
13841319:milk_man said:
I know what one is. But thanks for the video.
Should they be legal? Probably not. Would it make a difference? I don't know. Did this shooting use one? I don't think so...maybe so if you have proof that he did please let me know
Guns are very simple machines and largely aren't hard to modify. Filing down a pin, using a binary, yada yada.
CaptainObvious.
Active member
13841309:kamesjelly said:
This is outstanding.
Daph
Active member
Not that hard to modify a semi auto into a fully auto.
Not that hard to acquire a semi auto legally.
Very hard to fully prevent sick, fucked up people from acquiring guns, either legally or illegally. You can seem like a perfectly normal person on paper/background check and still be the kind of asshole that thinks spraying hundreds of rounds into a crowd of people is something that needs to happen.
Just some points to consider
Not that hard to acquire a semi auto legally.
Very hard to fully prevent sick, fucked up people from acquiring guns, either legally or illegally. You can seem like a perfectly normal person on paper/background check and still be the kind of asshole that thinks spraying hundreds of rounds into a crowd of people is something that needs to happen.
Just some points to consider
onenerdykid
Active member
13841334:milk_man said:
And a smaller police force, so your point is irrelevant. If all US gun owners had to go through this same protocol, are you worried it would take too long? Or that we don't have enough police/government to ensure that all gun owners are properly trained/accounted for? If so, then that alone should be enough for you to admit that the problem is huge and something needs to be done ASAP AF. If you want to start curbing gun violence, you have to start somewhere. And ensuring that gun owners know what they fuck they are doing and are mentally equipped enough to keep owning a gun seems like a good direction to head in.
-eREKTion-
Active member
Unfortunately, in moments like these we ask all the wrong questions. We shouldn't be asking what guns we should ban or what firearm accessories to prohibit. Prohibition doesn't work, haven't we learned enough from our failed War on Drugs? And if we're going to start a War on Guns remind me to run for fucking cover because those guns are going to shoot back. Instead, we should be asking how this guy got those guns or how mentally unstable people get guns in the first place. The answer is control but unfortunately the term gun control has been so bastardized by US politics that it's come to mean gun prohibition. Control not prohibition was the essence of Reagan's National Firearms Act which coincidentally was the legislation that makes it so hard for people to legally obtain fully automatic weapons. The real solution to situations like this is to step back onto Reagan's path and enact meaningful legislation that can effectively control WHO can buy guns not WHAT guns they can buy.
onenerdykid
Active member
13841297:MGK said:
While we can all agree that mental instability is the main problem here, the key would be to limit their access to tools whose primary purpose for their existence is to be a weapon. This is why your "it's just a tool like anything else" argument amounts to a false equivalence. A gun is a purpose built weapon and a truck is a purpose built transportation device. They are not the same thing. You don't have any confusion as to which one you would reach for if you had to defend yourself, so don't make it seem like they are the same.
As also mentioned, there are instances of people renting trucks and driving them into crowded areas. But, it's not like nothing is being done to regulate this or not policed in any way. You can be absolutely sure that police agencies are looking at truck rental depots when festivals or parades are planned.
Ultimately yes- crazy people who want to kill people will find a way. But it would be a mistake to think that nothing can be done or improved on without our freedoms being trampled in the process. We need to make sure that reasonable and rational steps are taken to minimize their chances to carry out their horrible plans. And this can be done while preserving our personal freedoms.
WoFIowz
Active member
Sorry if someone already said this, but it wasn't corrected in the first 10 posts or so and whoaa just way too many posts to read.....
Automatic firearms are not illegal. They are just quite expensive and tedious to get legally. You have to go through a background process, followed by a mandatory waiting period, in addition to paying a sizeable tax stamp to the federal government.
The dude definitely had an automatic weapon or modified it to do so.
I have no comments on what happened yesterday. Fucked up.
Automatic firearms are not illegal. They are just quite expensive and tedious to get legally. You have to go through a background process, followed by a mandatory waiting period, in addition to paying a sizeable tax stamp to the federal government.
The dude definitely had an automatic weapon or modified it to do so.
I have no comments on what happened yesterday. Fucked up.
The whole of the developed world is watching in amazement as events like this, and sandy hook, continue to happen yet some americans still try to argue against some form of regulation. We simply cannot fathom how such simple things as back ground checks, mental health checks and more stringent requirements for owning certain types of firearms get hit with such backlash. You guys have a gun problem, and unless you start to take steps in the right direction, next week it could be you and your girlfriend at a concert, or your fucking toddler at preschool.
No where else in the developed world is this happening. You guys need to wake the fuck up.
No where else in the developed world is this happening. You guys need to wake the fuck up.
qazwsxedc34
Active member
So, just a lone 67 year old gun man? No other suspects/shooters? How many guns and ammo did he have in that apartment? Is their a paper trail and how did he aquire auomatic rifles?
As for people proposing to ban guns, I'm perectly fine with regards to enacting stricter gun laws that means more involved training courses, as well as regulation on thr kinds and amount of ammo. What I can't understand is the idea that guns are thr problem. Seeing that metropolitan areas which have strict gun laws have the hightest gun violence and gun related homicide deaths in the country, such as Chicago.
If we look at the stats, since the 80's gun violence and gun related deaths has decreased between 47% and 53%. So the idea that gun violence and gun homicides in the US is at a all time hight due in part to the coverage of mass shootings is misleading.
Now why ban rifles and more specifically why have legislation to ban sub sets of rifles such as thr ar-15. Rifles cause LESS THAN 2.5% of gun related deaths, the ar-15 even leas so! Why pinpoint this weapon when clearly shitty handguns and shotguns are the problem.
It isn't the guns. Start with education, poverty, mental illness, wealth inequality, etc. Fixing these issues will reduce gun violence and gun homicides.
As for people proposing to ban guns, I'm perectly fine with regards to enacting stricter gun laws that means more involved training courses, as well as regulation on thr kinds and amount of ammo. What I can't understand is the idea that guns are thr problem. Seeing that metropolitan areas which have strict gun laws have the hightest gun violence and gun related homicide deaths in the country, such as Chicago.
If we look at the stats, since the 80's gun violence and gun related deaths has decreased between 47% and 53%. So the idea that gun violence and gun homicides in the US is at a all time hight due in part to the coverage of mass shootings is misleading.
Now why ban rifles and more specifically why have legislation to ban sub sets of rifles such as thr ar-15. Rifles cause LESS THAN 2.5% of gun related deaths, the ar-15 even leas so! Why pinpoint this weapon when clearly shitty handguns and shotguns are the problem.
It isn't the guns. Start with education, poverty, mental illness, wealth inequality, etc. Fixing these issues will reduce gun violence and gun homicides.
BrawnTrends
Active member
13841533:fuckmekevin said:
Don't most guns used in Chicago's gun violence come from neighboring states where it's super easy to buy guns?
ESB
Active member
Legal devices that convert semi-automatic rifles to full automatic should be made illegal.
Anyone who wants to purchase a gun should be required to attend gun safety training in a process lasting at least several months.
The entire point of the second Amendment is that a "well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state." The "well-regulated" part needs to do a whole lot of catching up on the "shall not be infringed" part.
Anyone who wants to purchase a gun should be required to attend gun safety training in a process lasting at least several months.
The entire point of the second Amendment is that a "well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state." The "well-regulated" part needs to do a whole lot of catching up on the "shall not be infringed" part.
ESB
Active member
13841517:Dustin. said:
Europe has also reacted to the new threat with new security protocols. Almost all pedestrian thoroughfares in major European cities have been augmented with barriers intended to hinder vehicle attacks. Makeshift blockades using vehicles or concrete barriers are used to block off access routes at festivals and other events. They didn't just say, "Cars don't kill people - people kill people" and do nothing to address the threat.
milk_man
Active member
13841516:onenerdykid said:
You're gonna get hoards of people from rural areas signing up for these classes. How many inner city thugs in Chicago are gonna sign up? 0. And the inner city thugs are who account for the vast majority or gun violence in America. Again, it's a societal problem, not a gun problem.
onenerdykid
Active member
13841561:milk_man said:
I love that you simply don't want to do anything to try to make an improvement in this situation. "Oh it seems like such hard work to do this" "Oh, but you have to focus more on the inner city" "Oh, they'll just use sharp spoons to kill people instead"... God forbid we try to make a positive impact on this situation and keep deadly weapons out of people's hands who aren't fit to own or operate them. Yes, it will not be easy. Yes, it will take a lot of work. And yes, it won't be done overnight. But it will be WAY easier than trying to educate the entire population on how to be a good person. While that is ultimately the best answer, it is also completely unrealistic to expect that to happen. It's even more unrealistic than taking away all guns. At the very least, if you made all legitimate gun owners go through training and education similar to a pilot's license PLUS yearly mental health checks, it would be a step in the right direction. And anything that gets us moving in the right direction (that also doesn't take away our constitutional freedoms) ought to be discussed/investigated/pursued.
coolflash8
Active member
fuck me. wish i had about 40k to drop on an auto sear, an AR, and a shitload of ammo. I hate it when pieces of shit cunts like this old fuck do this and fuck up the gun rights debate for the rest of us. It just the cost of freedom tho, also doing anything to the gun laws is retarded cause trucks kill more people in terrorist attacks (nice)
onenerdykid
Active member
13841578:milk_man said:
We regulate legitimate things to ensure they stay legitimate. And we punish those who break the law. You do both.
TheDoughAbides
Active member
Auzy
Member
I think the hardest thing is just drawing the line. How do we decide who is too mentally unstable to own a gun? This guy lived a perfectly normal life from the outside, who is to say he would have been blocked in the vetting process? I think everyone can agree we have an issue, but I think the issue is too deep in the gray zone for anyone to be able to agree on a solution.
BrawnTrends
Active member
Maybe owning 30+ firearms is getting close to where the line should be drawn? At least for a civilian.
BrawnTrends
Active member
13841621:Auzy said:
Prob not. But you gotta start somewhere..
chris.goodhue
Member
I've overall supported own guns...but dam something has got to change because this shit keeps happening.
I don't really see the downside to stricter gun laws honestly...
Such a tough subject..I don't want to loose my liberties but at what point do you say that we can't responsibly have guns. (obviously most gun owners are very responsible but look at all of the mass shootings in recent years)
I don't know what a good solution would be....
I don't really see the downside to stricter gun laws honestly...
Such a tough subject..I don't want to loose my liberties but at what point do you say that we can't responsibly have guns. (obviously most gun owners are very responsible but look at all of the mass shootings in recent years)
I don't know what a good solution would be....
Mike-O
Active member
13841636:chris.goodhue said:
Civil war, maybe? I mean that's the only way anything will/can change. A war/conflict whose winner will make the US the anti-NRA type's wet dream and the losers will be eradicated from history.
I've always said I have an utopistic view, that one day we wouldn't have the need for weapons. But I don't think I'll live to see even a hint of that becoming reality, so it's easier to analyze what has happened, what's going on right now and predict through reality that unless there's an immense paradigm shift in the US as a nation, as a people, people will hold on to their basic rights in fear of a slippery slope. And I say let them. This cunt who shot up Vegas was a retired millionaire with no history of mental illnesses, radical beliefs or ideologies that he projected outwards (if what we have learned is true) so there wasn't really nothing to stop him from doing this.
As for what somene saying about 33,000 gun deaths in the US annually, did they take into account everything that's gang and drug-related and take out all illegally obtained guns out of that data?
coolflash8
Active member
13841584:onenerdykid said:
bro fuck off. shut up. and leave thread. you aren't even american, and shouldn't be a part of this debate
coolflash8
Active member
13841651:Auzy said:
Just because you don't like my point of view doesn't make it illogical or poorly educated. Onenerdykid is some high and mighty Euro who wants to try to apply his frame of mind to a completely different context, America. Also fewer than 2.5% of gun deaths are from rifles, so this debate is completely misguided. If any of you truly cared about gun related violence you would look at chicago and start there.
**This post was edited on Oct 3rd 2017 at 1:22:00pm
