Why are people going to vote for bernie?

brov1

brov1

Active member
It honestly makes no sense to me, and i am a democrat. his ideas don't align with the party at all. he just yells to please in a similar way to trump. bernie is a smart guy and i agree with him 100% from a moral perspective but the logical reason to support him just isn't there at all. He couldn't pass any of his unrealistic plans through a right leaning congress. for most of his ideas the math isn't even there. he underestimates the greed of society and he can't run a country through executive orders and yelling. he has less foreign policy experience than anyone and isn't trying to fix that. he honestly thinks that the rich will let him take their money. our military one of the most reliable and sizable sources of fighting terrorism in the world and downsizing the military on such a massive scale will not only stop aid from reaching those who need it but will shift economic and combat power elsewhere.even if you over exaggerated the shit out of what he plans to tax and say i don't know tax the highest tax bracket 100% it wouldn't pay for even a fraction of his ambitious endeavours. free college, lets be honest here that would never ever happen in this age. not all billionaires are inherently bad look at gates and buffet two of the richest who donate the majority of their income to charity and those who need it. i just can't find a convincing pro bernie argument anywhere. he feels to me like a leftist trump who just spouts unrealistic gibberish because people like to hear it.

only real pros are weed, and payed maternity leave
 
topic:brov1 said:
he feels to me like a leftist trump who just spouts unrealistic gibberish because people like to hear it.
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He's been arguing for the same policies for the last 30+ years. He's hardly saying it because its what people nowadays want to hear. His policies won't be easy to get through Congress, but he has consistently demonstrated his ability to work with both parties to get legislation passed. Every politician praises him for that, and the same cannot be said for other candidates. Ultimately, I'd much rather have someone with whom I generally agree with morally hold office than another politician cut from the same old cloth.

13621475:brov1 said:
moral and logically moral are very different things my dude
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Please explain. Moral principles are derived using practical reason, so I fail to see how something can be both moral and illogical at the same time. If you are using the word "logical" as a substitute for "pragmatic" than I would probably agree with you.
 
13621494:7springsprod said:
Just what our country needs. Is for congress to do nothing for another 4 years.
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So let's not blame Bernie (not saying that you are), let's blame the dickbags who will oppose any measure simply because it did not originate from their side of the aisle. But, like I said, there is no politician who has a better track record than Bernie when it comes to finding a compromise that works for both sides. He has proven that he is the best at this.
 
13621491:onenerdykid said:
He's been arguing for the same policies for the last 30+ years. He's hardly saying it because its what people nowadays want to hear. His policies won't be easy to get through Congress, but he has consistently demonstrated his ability to work with both parties to get legislation passed. Every politician praises him for that, and the same cannot be said for other candidates. Ultimately, I'd much rather have someone with whom I generally agree with morally hold office than another politician cut from the same old cloth.

Please explain. Moral principles are derived using practical reason, so I fail to see how something can be both moral and illogical at the same time. If you are using the word "logical" as a substitute for "pragmatic" than I would probably agree with you.
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look in this day in age where the split between parties is so wide and abrupt, in a society where the republican party has gone out of there way to stop obama just because hes obama, that someone far far more radical would be able to get thing passed let's be realistic here bernie would get shot down faster than a russian fighter jet over turkey. and the same can very easily be applied to hillary. i am no hillary supporter but she has proven that she can work very well with both parties. and sure it would be cool to have leader that represents the lower and middle classes who is a self described socialist who will make college free and rich people poorer, but nothing would ever happen, ever period it would essentially be a 4 year long government shutdown.

i was actually using logical as pragmatic, but also as logical. logically we do want a president that is morally correct, but there is more logic in sacrificing some morality for more progress and experience in the fields that are most important for a president, like foreign policy. which hilary has a lot of.
 
tbh even if he doesn't succeed in passing all of his policies, id prefer that over someone who didnt try at all...
 
13621499:brov1 said:
i was actually using logical as pragmatic, but also as logical. logically we do want a president that is morally correct, but there is more logic in sacrificing some morality for more progress and experience in the fields that are most important for a president, like foreign policy. which hilary has a lot of.
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I still challenge you on the logical vs moral aspect because I fail to see how doing something less moral would be more logical. That would mean that if something is truly the right thing to do, it would also be the illogical thing at the same time. Trust me when I say that's a very difficult theory to maintain. Where I do agree with you is that the right thing might not be the most pragmatic solution, and for a politician (especially in foreign policy) this is where the balance needs to be struck. Politicians at some point need to embrace pragmatism, which Bernie has completely demonstrated over his 30+ year career. He has his ideals, but then he reaches a compromise with both parties. Hillary can't hold a candle to Bernie in this regard. He is actually more well respected by the Republicans than she is.

But, even if Hillary has more foreign policy experience than Bernie, do you really think there wouldn't be people in his cabinet that don't have shit tons of foreign policy experience that would aid him in such decisions? No president is perfect in all aspects befitting a president, that's why his cabinet exists.
 
He has very few pros, the man has never worked a real world job and doesn't understand how money works. All the kids at school want him literally just for free college. The man wants to raise a country where its "everyone wins" so nobody actually has to work hard. This country is gonna go further into shit no matter who we get.
 
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I thought Bernie was an OK candidate up until he said "15$ minimum wage". I'm open to raising the minimum wage, but 15$ is bullshit.
 
13621497:onenerdykid said:
So let's not blame Bernie (not saying that you are), let's blame the dickbags who will oppose any measure simply because it did not originate from their side of the aisle. But, like I said, there is no politician who has a better track record than Bernie when it comes to finding a compromise that works for both sides. He has proven that he is the best at this.
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im not saying it would be bernies fault that there would be an impasse. im saying that we should vote for someone who is less likely to cause one
 
Bernie's #1 policy is to get corporation corruption out of politics. If that's all he is able to do in 4 years, it will be a successful presidency.

Plus:

His other main policies are around prison reform and a single payer healthcare system.

He's pushing for free college... probably won't happen with the current congress but maybe as a compromise there will be reductions to student debt.

He's pushing for a 15 dollar minimum wage... Probably won't happen but I he'll at least be able to raise it somewhat.

Unfortunately, in this day and age you need to have extreme ideas in order to get moderate results. Highball then compromise at something reasonable.
 
13621491:onenerdykid said:
He's been arguing for the same policies for the last 30+ years. He's hardly saying it because its what people nowadays want to hear. His policies won't be easy to get through Congress, but he has consistently demonstrated his ability to work with both parties to get legislation passed. Every politician praises him for that, and the same cannot be said for other candidates.
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But his effectiveness doesn't raise an eyebrow for you? I understand you can like him from a moral standpoint and that he has thought the same thing since the stone age, but of the 353 bills he's sponsored over 25 years only 3 have made it into law. Two of the three were about renaming post offices in Vermont and another was about the VA. If anything it will be harder to get his ideas passed when he's POTUS and everyone is monitoring his every move waiting for a mistake.

I admire him for his passion, but to think he is going to actually be able to get anything done is in my opinion not realistic.
 
13621757:assatrailz said:
a lot of what u said is bs you obviously don't stay up to date with your politics buddy
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You strike me as being one of those people who ONLY watch the democratic debates and speeches, and ONLY read liberally biased new sources just to say they're "up to date" on politics
 
Because they're trend whores. Bernie is the new Obama.

I'm not saying a lot of people don't legitimately support him, but a good chunk of it is bandwagon bullshit. Errrmahgerrd it's so kewl bruh
 
13621549:THEDIRTYBUBBLE said:
I thought Bernie was an OK candidate up until he said "15$ minimum wage". I'm open to raising the minimum wage, but 15$ is bullshit.
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It's not like they're gonna make the minimum wage $15 overnight. They're probably going to gradually raise it over time until it's $15/hr for a minimum wage. NY is doing that currently and it's not going to be $15/hr until the end of this decade at least.
 
13621921:Brule. said:
It's not like they're gonna make the minimum wage $15 overnight.
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if only Bernie supporters understood this. if he wins, it doesn't mean boom, free college, free everything right away. none of his ridiculous plans will get passed, and if they eventually do, it will be years and years down the line.
 
All of his free ideas involve spending...and taking that money from hard working americans. I dont care if you make 100 million or 1000 a year. You deserve to keep what you make.

I paid for college on my own with NO help through hard work, smarts, and good grades which ledme into some high paying internships which led into a decent paying job which let me live a good life.

I dont want to be enslaved forever in school debt because this moron wants to let everyone off the hook. The problem isn't colleges...they are just opportunistic.

The problem is GOVERNMENT. They are the ones who caused tuition to massively rise by pushing degrees on everyone when most shouldnt have it and guaranteeing colleges the money 100% with no bankruptcy option in the future.
 
13621942:KravtZ said:
All of his free ideas involve spending...and taking that money from hard working americans. I dont care if you make 100 million or 1000 a year. You deserve to keep what you make.

I paid for college on my own with NO help through hard work, smarts, and good grades which ledme into some high paying internships which led into a decent paying job which let me live a good life.

I dont want to be enslaved forever in school debt because this moron wants to let everyone off the hook. The problem isn't colleges...they are just opportunistic.

The problem is GOVERNMENT. They are the ones who caused tuition to massively rise by pushing degrees on everyone when most shouldnt have it and guaranteeing colleges the money 100% with no bankruptcy option in the future.
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Not everyone is as fortunate as you and I to be blessed with intelligence and a mental health makeup that allows for monetary success.

Not everyone was born into a situation in which they could succeed.

I agree that college should be a privlege and a "big deal", as opposed to it currently being a ho-hum requirement. But I think govt is in place so that the best and brightest amongst us cannot take advantage to the utter detriment of those with lesser capabilities.
 
13621936:Peter. said:
if only Bernie supporters understood this. if he wins, it doesn't mean boom, free college, free everything right away. none of his ridiculous plans will get passed, and if they eventually do, it will be years and years down the line.
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They should, because he says it outright in his speeches. He has said multiple times that if we vote back in the same congress, nothing will change regardless of who the president is (assuming a democrat wins). Nobody who is actually paying attention is this naive.
 
13621936:Peter. said:
if only Bernie supporters understood this. if he wins, it doesn't mean boom, free college, free everything right away. none of his ridiculous plans will get passed, and if they eventually do, it will be years and years down the line.
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Shit I'm voting for Bernie and I understand this.
 
He's the only candidate that gives even half a shit about the environment and the fact that if we don't change the way we live we won't have a viable planet to live on
 
Bernie supporters are the Democratic equivalent of the Tea Party. Just as brazenly impractical, just as sure of their own moral authority, just as mile-wide-inch-deep in their thinking. The Tea Party has outlandish ideas like a 10% flat tax to buy your vote with money, Bernie has free state college. Neither makes any sort of fiscal sense.

In principle, some measured approach to some of the policies might make sense. But he's basically running Howard Beale's campaign.

 
13621942:KravtZ said:
All of his free ideas involve spending...and taking that money from hard working americans.
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Grr. I hate this attack on any Democratic policy. Its not like these ideas are done to make the citizen pay more money. They are always designed to minimize costs. Take healthcare for instance. Yeah, your taxes are going to be higher, but you won't be spending as much as if it were privatized. This kind of thinking is so simple, I don't know why people act like the government is just trying to steal their money.

Oh, and Obama is gonna take all of your guns and ammo too, better buy more right?
 
13622211:K-Dot. said:
Grr. I hate this attack on any Democratic policy. Its not like these ideas are done to make the citizen pay more money. They are always designed to minimize costs. Take healthcare for instance. Yeah, your taxes are going to be higher, but you won't be spending as much as if it were privatized. This kind of thinking is so simple, I don't know why people act like the government is just trying to steal their money.

Oh, and Obama is gonna take all of your guns and ammo too, better buy more right?
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I don't currently pay for my health insurance and I can get surgery next week if I want and done need it. In a fully socialized system I'd have to pay taxes, and would have to have the govt sign off on when and if a surgery was needed.
 
13622220:californiagrown said:
I don't currently pay for my health insurance and I can get surgery next week if I want and done need it. In a fully socialized system I'd have to pay taxes, and would have to have the govt sign off on when and if a surgery was needed.
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Depends on the system really.

You pay for kids to go to school with your taxes even though you don't have any. Why isn't anyone outraged at that?
 
13621497:onenerdykid said:
So let's not blame Bernie (not saying that you are), let's blame the dickbags who will oppose any measure simply because it did not originate from their side of the aisle.
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Can we agree that this isn't a party issue but more of an issue of a bought congress?
 
13621798:iLLbiLLy said:
Bernie's #1 policy is to get corporation corruption out of politics. If that's all he is able to do in 4 years, it will be a successful presidency.
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well my point is that he won't even be able to do that. get corruption out of politics in a system with such little proportional corruption to rest of the world shouldn't be a main focus. a main focus should be the environment or something along those lines not something that is in a word, impossible.

13621995:DreddSteve said:
They should, because he says it outright in his speeches. He has said multiple times that if we vote back in the same congress, nothing will change regardless of who the president is (assuming a democrat wins). Nobody who is actually paying attention is this naive.
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lol at this, there is no way that we have a democratic congress any time soon, maybe a democratically controlled house, but senate lol no. also you realize that the democratic party doesn't even endorse bernie because he is unrealistically radical. and even if we did have a democratic congress, most democrats aren't radical enough to support someone like bernie so nothing would happen either way.

13622159:robbinJAHood said:
He's the only candidate that gives even half a shit about the environment and the fact that if we don't change the way we live we won't have a viable planet to live on
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this is just wrong, hilary does and so does o'malley. they just aren't quite as loud yellers.
 
13621503:Ski_Alot said:
tbh even if he doesn't succeed in passing all of his policies, id prefer that over someone who didnt try at all...
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fucking exactly.

Why should we give anyone else the satisfaction of being president?
 
The fact that we have to import so many people from India and Asia for mid to high paying tech jobs makes no sense to me. This is an area that I think the government has fucked up massively and could do something to get more of those jobs filled by Americans instead of having the masses work low wage jobs. Nothing against those immigrants its obviously not their fault Microsoft wants to hire them but it just seems crazy to me.
 
13622196:J.D. said:
Bernie supporters are the Democratic equivalent of the Tea Party. Just as brazenly impractical, just as sure of their own moral authority, just as mile-wide-inch-deep in their thinking. The Tea Party has outlandish ideas like a 10% flat tax to buy your vote with money, Bernie has free state college. Neither makes any sort of fiscal sense.
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How on earth does proposing universal health care and free college make Bernie some radical left wing version of the Tea party??? Bernies ideas for universal health care and college are literally a reality in every other developed nation in the world. But you want to talk about fiscal sense? Investing in education at any level will return an investment of around six dollars. Give or take. Education isn't just free shit, it's investing in our future to create a more educated work force. Can you see the correlation between America's lack of education spending and their literacy rate of 86% And America also spends the most money on health care in the world as well. Now is every other developed nation in the world batshit crazy left wing socialist or is America just behind the times?
 
brov1 is the only rational and logical person in the thread but everybody downvotes him and jerks off bernie and onenerdykid
 
13621936:Peter. said:
if only Bernie supporters understood this. if he wins, it doesn't mean boom, free college, free everything right away. none of his ridiculous plans will get passed, and if they eventually do, it will be years and years down the line.
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Exactly, so why not vote for him based on his honesty and consistency. If you truly believe what you are saying than arguing about his policies is completely pointless. He will compromise because he is a good policitician. Yelling for $15/hr means you might get $11
 
13621559:brov1 said:
im not saying it would be bernies fault that there would be an impasse. im saying that we should vote for someone who is less likely to cause one
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Given what we see happening with Obama at the helm, I don't think it would be any better with Hillary. They would still try to block her as well, and perhaps even more so. They see her as a corrupt weasel and don't have a lot of love for her as a person, regardless of her policies, so they won't make it any easier for her. However, when you listen to Republicans talk about Bernie they have way more respect for him because he tries to find a compromise when getting bills passed (not just his, but any he is involved with).

These articles from a quick Google search demonstrate this point:

https://politicalwire.com/2015/12/08/john-mccain-praises-bernie-sanders/

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-gets-it-done-sanders-record-pushing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you



https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/fact-bernie-sanders-got-more-done-in-the-senate-than-hillary-clinton/

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/congresss-only-socialist-becomes-bipartisan-dealmaker

Is it going to be perfect, I have no reason to think it will. But I do think he will work with the Republicans better than Hillary will.
 
13622211:K-Dot. said:
Grr. I hate this attack on any Democratic policy. Its not like these ideas are done to make the citizen pay more money. They are always designed to minimize costs. Take healthcare for instance. Yeah, your taxes are going to be higher, but you won't be spending as much as if it were privatized. This kind of thinking is so simple, I don't know why people act like the government is just trying to steal their money.

Oh, and Obama is gonna take all of your guns and ammo too, better buy more right?
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Designed to minimize costs? I would beg to differ as it depends on the system.

Many economists have come out to oppose Bernie's plans, saying that he is actually underestimating the costs of his proposals and that the resulting programs will put a good portion of the burden on the middle and lower classes.

13622354:S.J.W said:
How on earth does proposing universal health care and free college make Bernie some radical left wing version of the Tea party??? Bernies ideas for universal health care and college are literally a reality in every other developed nation in the world. But you want to talk about fiscal sense? Investing in education at any level will return an investment of around six dollars. Give or take. Education isn't just free shit, it's investing in our future to create a more educated work force. Can you see the correlation between America's lack of education spending and their literacy rate of 86% And America also spends the most money on health care in the world as well. Now is every other developed nation in the world batshit crazy left wing socialist or is America just behind the times?
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Bernie wants a single payer system does he not? That is VERY different than a universal healthcare system. It is a sub-type, there are many different ways to approach universal healthcare. I hope you realize this.

Your arguments infuriate me. You are trying to fit a country that is about as diverse both socially and economically as Europe combined into a box that fits neatly. It is not that simple.

Does American healthcare and education need reforms? Yes, it does. But to approach it like European countries do is like trying to fix a circular peg into a square hole. It won't work no matter how hard you try. You need to find the hole that fits it.
 
13622441:.MASSHOLE. said:
Designed to minimize costs? I would beg to differ as it depends on the system.

Many economists have come out to oppose Bernie's plans, saying that he is actually underestimating the costs of his proposals and that the resulting programs will put a good portion of the burden on the middle and lower classes.

Bernie wants a single payer system does he not? That is VERY different than a universal healthcare system. It is a sub-type, there are many different ways to approach universal healthcare. I hope you realize this.

Your arguments infuriate me. You are trying to fit a country that is about as diverse both socially and economically as Europe combined into a box that fits neatly. It is not that simple.

Does American healthcare and education need reforms? Yes, it does. But to approach it like European countries do is like trying to fix a circular peg into a square hole. It won't work no matter how hard you try. You need to find the hole that fits it.
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awwww I'm making you angry. That makes me happy.
 
13622449:S.J.W said:
awwww I'm making you angry. That makes me happy.
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More just frustrated. You are so close-minded as you claim some conservatives are. People like you are what the world a bipartisan place with no room for compromise.

Are you even going to address my comment about the universal healthcare system? Or is the single-payer system the only one you want?
 
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