Why are people going to vote for bernie?
- Thread starter brov1
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.MASSHOLE.
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13622453:S.J.W said:
And that right there, is my point proven.
If you are unwilling to have an open mind, then you are just like Trump, the Tea Party, and every other close-minded party in politics that you so often try to put down.
Having a close-mind is hurting the world more than any thing else.
At least I am willing to hear out arguments and provide counterpoints or admit to being incorrect.
I just hope you realize there are many ways to solve these issues. Universal Healthcare is a broad term and is more than just a single-payer system. Education doesn't only have to come from college, it can come from trade schools. Breaking up big banks won't fix the issues if the enforcement lacks. The list goes on.
S.J.W
Active member
13622454:.MASSHOLE. said:
We've had discussions on Bernie over and over again, and it's always the same shit. I'm not going to budge on my position defending universal health care because I know how amazing it can be. It's literally beating a dead horse and I'm not about to start beating said horse again.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13622458:S.J.W said:
But do you want Universal Healthcare or a Single Payer System? A Single Payer System is a version of Universal Healthcare, but Universal Healthcare is not a version of a Single Payer System...
13622211:K-Dot. said:
Because honestly I dont care about the vast majority of other people. I get great healthcare through my company at a very very reasonable price and good deductibles. So now I have to pay more for others even though I am good in my current situation. You see the problem? Its not my problem others have issues...its there own problem.
Blindsurfer
Active member
remember back when washington said not to form political parties because it would only fuck things up in the future?
.MASSHOLE.
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13622482:S.J.W said:
Alright, then do everyone a favor and stop denouncing lack of universal healthcare when it is, in fact, part of the American system. The ACA is considered a compulsory insurance system, which, in fact, is a type of Universal Healthcare. The ACA is actually similar to what your favorite country, Australia has.
S.J.W
Active member
13622497:.MASSHOLE. said:
Cool really don't care. Ask anyone on the street what the difference between universal health care and single payer is and they won't be able to tell you the difference. And if you want to get so strong armed on the definitions of each then go right ahead. Because I'm going to continue to use universal health care as a synonym for single payer because that's what most people think it is.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13622507:S.J.W said:
You probably should. You sound like an idiot if you don't know the difference because well.
I can't believe I am defending Hillary but people were all up in arms when she was against a Single Payer System because she talked about Universal Healthcare in prior speeches. There is a MASSIVE difference.
An uninformed electorate combined with a close-minded one will ruin any country. You are a walking example of the issue at hand. Hopefully one day you can realize that.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13622507:S.J.W said:
You are also then grouping in countries like Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Australia with Canada, Taiwan, and the UK, when they are in fact VERY different.
S.J.W
Active member
13622512:.MASSHOLE. said:
Did you not read my post? I do know the difference... I just can't be fucked to use proper terminology because other people don't know the difference and when people talk about universal health care they're usually talking about a single payer. And I'm not like you where I get a boner everytime I correct someone on the difference.
And don't try to use me as an example of not changing an opinion. In the last state election in Australia I voted for Mike Baird who is the member of the liberal party in NSW (right wing). So I won't change my opinion on a single payer health care system so that makes me a shining example of someone who won't change his opinion? Happy that I used the correct terminology?
You say you want to have intellectual discussions and will admit you're wrong if proved otherwise. Easier said than done when I haven't seen you admit you're wrong once on this site, or are you just always right?
killabees
Active member
Everyones has a fucked up foreign policy. I care about getting the fuck out of the middle east other than humanitarian efforts. other then political finance that's my main concern. We are pretty fucked up around the world. Bernie will help. Hilary scares me, her stance on GTA was fucked up
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13622521:S.J.W said:
Then make that clear. Because you are continuing the state of misinformation among a population that frankly needs to be informed if they are to make a difference. I can't imagine OneNerdyKid is always talking about a single payer system when discussing universal healthcare.
No, you won't change your opinion on something no matter how much misinformation OR correct information you have. You earlier stated you were unwilling to engage in any sort of conversation because we don't see eye to eye. That is unfortunate because it means you are unwilling to listen to the other side.
I will admit if I am wrong. Unfortunately you have failed to prove me as incorrect, rather you just prove we have differing opinions. I NEVER take my word as absolute truth, rather I show the information I have, why I believe in it, and why I stand behind it. I try not to provide statements without information. If PhD. economists, statisticians, and industry experts are incorrect, then I am incorrect. I will admit it.
If Bernie wins this elections and passes every major thing he has proposed, I will never post on NS again.
S.J.W
Active member
13622528:.MASSHOLE. said:
No I didn't want to discuss single payer health care because we've done it so many times. It's been done, it's a dead horse and I'm not going to continue beating a dead horse anymore. I have better things to do with my day than beat a dead horse about health care. When did I say I didn't want to discuss any politics? You're literally throwing words into my mouth. Are you going to admit you were wrong about that? Probably not...
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13622453:S.J.W said:
13622536:S.J.W said:
See above. We are in a thread discussing politics, healthcare is part of politics is it not?
I was just trying to see if you understood grouping a Single Payer System together with a Universal Healthcare System was actually incorrect and frankly providing misinformation.
Huck_Norris
Active member
13621541:Titus69 said:
Y'know, it really is sad that peoples' minds actually work in this way.
Ignorance seems like a warm blanket and a pair of headphones to you fucking cretins nowadays. It's as if just saying something monumentally stupid like "He doesn't even know how money works" liberates you from the need to even look through the facts or historical relevance of the point at all.
Honestly, area all your thoughts in crayon flipbook animation or just your political ones? I seriously hope you're joking but you do seem stupid enough to actually believe Bernie doesn't know how money works. In case you missed it, he called out everyone before the collapse of '08 and called the full fallout of that bubble to a fucking T you stupid fucking meatgazer. If anybody knows money and the economy it's him. He has 100% been on point as to exactly what this country's financial and debt problems are. He warned us-> He tried to stop it-> It happened anyways-> Now he's trying to fix it -> fucking morons like you act like none of that ever happened and he's crazy/doesn't know what he's saying.
Go fuck yourself. Idiots like you are the problem. At least pay the smallest iota of attention to the actual relevant issues or just shut your fucking cockwarmer and get the fuck out of here. If that's teh shit you're going to spew I'm going to verbally fist you so fucking hard your mother is just going to start crying wherever she is and have no idea why.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13622543:S.J.W said:
As I stated , I was merely trying to see if you understood the nuances that differentiated the universal healthcare term and single payer system.
Huck_Norris
Active member
13622470:Fred_Bear said:
The point there is that if your company isn't on the hook for a massively inflated insurance and healthcare cost, they can afford to pay you more and everybody ends up winning. When the cost of healthcare is reduced, you can put more meat on the bone for everybody and that's the real point. I know you guys understand basic math, this shouldn't be a stretch for you to get.
Besides, I'm sick of hearing "Well I have good healthcare so fuck everyone else."
I have really good healthcare and insurance too, but I can tell you've never had a major surgery as things like that are still super fucking expensive! Get into a car accident, get cancer or get laid off and see how shit goes for you- even with great insurance you're going to pay out the fucking nose. Just because it's working for you right now doesn't mean it's always going to be peaches & cream forever, and like I said before- insurance does as little as it possibly can for you despite the massive amounts they fleece us for. Your short-sightedness is actually pretty sad in this case, as I find it ignores a lot of fairly obvious details that are key to the issue as a whole. Please stop that. You aren't safe and even with the best insurance, you could be on the hook for hundreds of thousands if you have a bad accident etc. You. Aren't. Safe.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13622567:McNoche said:
Relax McNoche, I don't agree with a lot of things you post either. I wasn't trying to humiliate or insult SJW despite how it may seem. I was merely pointing out his hypocrisy and misinformation.
*MASSHOLE*
Member
13622567:McNoche said:
You are such a dweeb
*MASSHOLE*
Member
13622587:Titus69 said:
Just ignore this guy. He is to deep to even reach.
Thegratefulskier
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Marijuana
Huck_Norris
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13622587:Titus69 said:
Get your numbers straight!
The cost is estimated at around $15T... But we STILL COME OUT AHEAD because it is estimated by the same algorithms that without this system going into effect, that cost would be $30T. DOUBLE. We are paying DOUBLE right now for shitty coverage, huge copays and limitless medical bills should someone run us over etc.
It's getting an astronomically better deal for way less money. I honestly don't understand how you guys can only look at the details in this proposal that you support your shitty opinion but it's pretty basic math once again. It's fine if you don't want to look at the actual fucking numbers and live in fairy tale land- be my guest- but don't regurgitate half the story here and expect others to not notice.
You can't say what it'll cost without saying what it'll save. If there's a net gain for us, that's really the point.
Huck_Norris
Active member
13622602:B1tch said:
Go fuck yourself.
I corrected him. If you don't want to be corrected, don't say stupid shit like "The guy who called the economy's collapse with 100% accuracy has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to economics and money"
The only thing I'm too deep into for you to "reach" is reality. You know- math and relevant points and such. It's fun! You should try it sometime!!
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13622733:Huck_Norris said:
It depends what numbers you look at. His party says one thing, some economists say other things. Obviously he has a lot of variables in play that need to come to fruition, so it is tough to say it will be THAT cheap relative to what we have.
http://www.vox.com/2016/1/28/10858644/bernie-sanders-kenneth-thorpe-single-payer
Huck_Norris
Active member
13622746:.MASSHOLE. said:
Think about it for a second though- even if it cost THE SAME AMOUNT, we would still be way ahead of where we are now because we could all get whatever we needed without fear of massive medical bills. Why wouldn't you want that?? I just don't get it. Tell me why that would be a bad thing!
*MASSHOLE*
Member
13622743:Huck_Norris said:
I was talking about the idiot you corrected, dipshit.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13622771:Huck_Norris said:
Because I don't believe in a Single-Payer System personally. I think Universal Healthcare is great, but not a Single-Payer System.
If you read that piece you will also see it could possibly put more pressure on the people it is meant to help, the lower and middle class. Frankly, that should worry a few people because if it is true, then is it really an improvement? Is it not supposed to save people money?
I know you will say "but those massive medical bills will not be a worry!". What about the people who don't have to pay those bills in their entire life?
supersquid
Active member
13621541:Titus69 said:
who is payind for college? someone has to. and its gonna be the young people who do it. there just setting themselves up for debt 20 tears down the road
supersquid
Active member
13622828:Titus69 said:
its gonna be the young people. whenyou think about it theres probably gonna be 15 years before all the "free" college catches up with people. that means in the frst year people are about 21 that means when they are 35 there gonna pay for it when they are older and everyone else younger than them. nothing is free someone has to pay.
WSMFP
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O.G.Surachai
Member
13622294:brov1 said:
I never said that there would be, and you only reinforced the point Bernie makes that nothing will drastically change if a democrat wins due to congressional gridlock. I think you have your congressional races flipped too, the Senate could conceivably go back to the dems, while the house is solidly republican at the moment (not that it matters.) I do believe that it could completely flip in the next 8 years as well, because it has done just that over the last 8 years (dem -> repub). To your point though, Bernie is a radical and I think that people are just fed up with politics as usual and that's why he has garnered so much attention. People view Hillary as more of the same, so those who aren't satisfied with that are going to gather behind more radical candidates. Same goes for Trump on the other side.
Also, the point of my other post was that people should pay attention to what he actually says before making claims like "everything will be instantly free!" because that is absolutely not what he has said. That goes for any candidate, do your own research and don't just regurgitate what your news source of choice tells you. Be informed, actually watch/listen to the speeches they are giving and then consider their messages before making assumptions.
Funkadelic
Active member
13622557:Huck_Norris said:
Eh, that's an argument I continue hearing for a single payer system that I just can't get behind. It's basically the same as saying "lowering corporate taxes allows companies to hire more people and increase wages." When in reality they'll just pocket the extra cash, sending it to offshore investments. I think in the scenario you pose above, corporations would just pocket any extra profits from switching to a single payer system because people are greedy.
But at the same time, I also doubt there would be any extra profits to share with employees anyway because in a Bernie world corporations would be paying higher taxes. So extra profits due to not paying inflated health insurance costs for employers would see a dent from higher taxes and less corporate loopholes anyway.
Especially where corporations are publicly traded. If the investors and board know the company should be seeing extra profits due to not having to pay inflated health care costs for the employees, they'll expect that money in their pockets, not the employees. The corporate world is fucked. They suckle the teet of the shareholders.
I could be wrong. Just the way it seems from my perspective.
californiagrown
Active member
13622557:Huck_Norris said:
My biggest issue with fully socialized healthcare is the quality of care... Basically I will pay an insurance tax that covers care at approved hospitals and clinics, unfortunately those will be the "laymen" facilities. All the top tier doctors and surgeons will open private practices and govt insurance will not cover all/most of that Bill, so private insurance is now needed in addition to the govt insurance... And then I'm back paying more. This is how it works in some European countries.
Additionally, I really like being able to go in to my doctor at lunch, have him/her authorize an MRI for that afternoon, and then have my meniscus scoped 2 days later. That would likely be a month+ long process with govt run healthcare due to the requirement that the govt authorize such expensive procedures. All socialized healthcare systems I've ever looked into provide a very slow level of service for non-essential expensive procedures+ they will require you try the least expensive treatments first even if the doctor and yourself would rather go with the more expensive treatment.
Casey
Active member
13622903:californiagrown said:
The reality is that if you treated everyone for everything they have that's wrong with them it would bankrupt us ten times over. Were never going to get around the fact that its expensive, difficult and time consuming to become a doctor, so they charge a lot, and the machines they use are complicated so they cost a lot. A perfectly efficient system where psychic doctors always make the best decision would still cost a shit ton.
HamFaceGirl
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#Hamface4president