Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13019539:.frenchy said:
Ignorance is bliss. Also he isn't a traitor. Try getting a grasp on basic English language.
Freed "POW" Bowe Bergdahl, traitor
- Thread starter Campeador
- Start date
Ignorance is bliss. Also he isn't a traitor. Try getting a grasp on basic English language.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13019529:Mr.Huck said:
Agreed. Tahmooressi got the shaft by the Obama Administration. They have not even acknowledged it.
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13019588:.frenchy said:
A traitor is someone found guilty of treason. Since he has not been found guilty of treason, he is not a traitor. Pretty simple stuff here. But conservatives seem to LOVE to throw that word around without knowing what it means. Lay off the Fox News.
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13019628:Sander. said:
Yeah that point has been made a few times by me and some others but mostly falls on deaf ears. Unfortunately people are set in their ways and put too much trust in our obviously biased/corrupt news agencies. If it was them, or one of their family members they would think differently, but people remain "thick skulled" for whatever reason. I don't condone the trade (5 for 1 is illogical), that set an ugly precedent, but I do feel that bringing this guy back was absolutely the right call.
As for the Marine stuck in Mexico, I am just as ripshit as everyone else should be. That guy wasn't a deserter or traitor, and he is still stuck in that shithole of a country. Ridiculous.
cobra_commander
Active member
Overall, I tend to agree with Stan.
Campeador
Active member
13019606:Granite_State said:
For someone so concerned with definitions you seem to have a hard time with them. One does not need to be convicted of treason in order to be a traitor, nowhere in any English definition is that stated as the only definition.
There wouldn't be many traitors by your definition, as there have been very few Americans convicted of treason. John Walker Lindh joined the Taliban and is considered an American traitor, but was never convicted of treason. Seems like Bergdahl wanted to play Taliban as well, and he is also a traitor, whether he's formally convicted of treason or not. Get you head out of your ass with your invented definitions and open a dictionary. I would say Bergdahl is more of a traitor than even Lindh, and should all the allegations prove true, he should rot behind bars.
Speaking of laying off, you and your buddies should layoff your pathetic, regurgitated Fox News comments. Haven't you guys come up with anything else over the years? Most of the people you throw that out to don't even watch Fox News. I don't call you a MSNBC disciple for your opinions (but then again no one watches MSNBC). It really is a laughable insult. There are plenty of reasons to hate Obama far beyond anything that is stated on Fox News.
mr_hartl
Member
soooo... has anyone thought that we might be playing the long game here? the 5 prisoners we traded are now in Qatar and it is said they will live there freely for the next year before being allowed back into Afghanistan. The U.S. has said that they aren't going to put them under surveillance, but the U.S. says shit all the time... what are the penalties for tracking them? what are the odds that we track these guys to get a bigger fish?
Campeador
Active member
13019824:Soul_Rider said:
By that logic we should just release all of them. I was thinking about this today, I'd hope they put some kind of undetectable tracking device in them somewhere. If I see these guys show up on the news dead after a drone strike I'll consider Obama exonerated, but I don't think it is likely.
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13019820:Bandolero said:
1. Lets get some things strait. My definition of a traitor is still 100% correct. And even if you used another definition, there is no proof that he betrayed his country. Defecting =/=betraying. How many times must we go over this?
2. There is limited to no proof the Bergdahl "joined" the Taliban. Like you placement of "considered an American traitor". Allows you to get off the hook on that one.
3.My definition is not invented, go look it up...
4. Explain to me why Berdahl is more of a "traitor" than John Lindh when Berdahl has not be found guilty of anything. Did you see the release video? That looked like someone who has been locked up inside a building and hasn't seen sunlight for a while.
5. Fox News is the only news station I (make sure you read that right, I, before you make any more silly assumptions) have seen labeling him a traitor. That's why I said that. Then again I usually get my news from the BBC so...
Phil-X-
Active member
I do with all my heart hope they were released with the intentions of being tracked via some sort of undetectable biochip or signal which a high altitude drone can sense.
Idk if we posses that kinda technology but then again we only see the stuff the military made 10 years ago and tells us its the "latest and greatest"
Questions to those that are pro Bowe - Do you not find anything sketchy about the following facts-
1-He learned 3 types of languages used in afghan prior to leaving
2- He purchased an AK to train with prior to leaving
3- He sent back all his expensive things a little before abandoning
4- He always talked about becoming a mercenary or part of the FFL
5- His father gets the opportunity to speak to our nation with the president and decides to speak a message
to the Taliban in arabic
6- Everyone in his unit speaks about how he was very strange and conducted himself in such a way they knew there was something sketchy about him
7-He was promoted and is going to prob be promoted again for no reason
8- In the video of his trade back to the americans he doesnt even look emotional or something... (if I was in that position, I would be sobbing and hugging the 2 men who came out to receive me.. I wouldnt believe it was real life)
9- The dad tweeted about how "he wont be content till every prisoner in guanto is freed)
10- Originally a lot was saying that he was hoping to go to China while fleeing, rather its clear his intentions were to meet with the Taliban
Idk if we posses that kinda technology but then again we only see the stuff the military made 10 years ago and tells us its the "latest and greatest"
Questions to those that are pro Bowe - Do you not find anything sketchy about the following facts-
1-He learned 3 types of languages used in afghan prior to leaving
2- He purchased an AK to train with prior to leaving
3- He sent back all his expensive things a little before abandoning
4- He always talked about becoming a mercenary or part of the FFL
5- His father gets the opportunity to speak to our nation with the president and decides to speak a message
to the Taliban in arabic
6- Everyone in his unit speaks about how he was very strange and conducted himself in such a way they knew there was something sketchy about him
7-He was promoted and is going to prob be promoted again for no reason
8- In the video of his trade back to the americans he doesnt even look emotional or something... (if I was in that position, I would be sobbing and hugging the 2 men who came out to receive me.. I wouldnt believe it was real life)
9- The dad tweeted about how "he wont be content till every prisoner in guanto is freed)
10- Originally a lot was saying that he was hoping to go to China while fleeing, rather its clear his intentions were to meet with the Taliban
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13020077:Phil-X- said:
I don't think "Pro Bowe" is a correct term. I think all U.S. soldiers, deserters or not, should be brought home. I also don't currently think he's a traitor because I don't like to make assumptions. Sure those things could be deemed "sketchy" but think about this for a second. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. BTW, the father said no such message to the Taliban, I believe you are misinformed on that one. He spoke in Arabic, that was it. Also, in the video he looked completely disoriented, something that is perfectly normal for someone who has been locked inside in god knows what conditions for an extended period of time. Learning languages to communicate with Afghan people is not sketchy at all, if anything it is the smart thing to do when you go over there. Also nothing fishy about getting promoted, the guy is smart...Some of your points don't mean shit, some are a little fishy. Let's wait for the truth to come out (if it ever does).
AhrenStein
Active member
13016050:Bandolero said:
This is where I stopped reading anything you wrote and realized you're handicapped.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13020189:AhrenStein said:
If that is about spelling it can be spelled that way. It is like Hanukkah, there are multiple recognizable versions in the romanized languages. It can be Koran, Quran, or Qur'an.
Scaredwhiteboy
Active member
I find it really hard to believe that any level-headed person would support this deal. One grunt for 5 taliban leaders is not a fair trade. If he was captured in the line of duty, that'd be one thing. He wasn't; he was a deserter. We have no obligation to get him back.
JAHpow
Active member
13020492:Scaredwhiteboy said:
Yep, Obama said we don't leave any soldier behind and I agree with that but this guy intentionally left his post and rejected the uniform. He should have been left there.
Read this
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06/05/exclusive-bergdahl-declared-jihad-secret-documents-show/
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13020514:JAHpow said:
No one should read that link.
Campeador
Active member
13020092:Granite_State said:
The more you post the clearer it becomes that you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. You've been proven wrong but refuse to admit it for fear of looking stupid. In terms of the definition of "traitor", I'd direct you to the Oxford dictionary.
As to the second part, "he spoke Arabic, that was it", do you even have a clue what he said? His words were the words that are recited at the beginning of every Surah of the Quran (happy now?) and are an invocation to Allah. Every imam begins with these lines before they preach.
Bismillah ir-Rahmaan ir-Raheem (In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful).
As far as not communicating with the Taliban, wrong again (this seems to be a trend for you), he was quite active with his Twitter communications with the Taliban. A traitor just like his son.
(this was on the very first page just so you know)
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13020092:Granite_State said:
Boom there it is. Once again you misread my post. What he said in Arabic was not directed towards the Taliban. READ man, read. BTW, you are correct in what he said, how does that make any difference?
13021259:Bandolero said:
My definition was from the Meriam-Webster Dictionary. Sorry, it wasn't invented. And please, show me where I've been "proven wrong". How can an opinion be proven wrong? It's an opinion.
Can an American citizen not be a Muslim? I understand it could be considered distasteful to ignorant Americans but there is nothing wrong IMO in quoting the Quran. He said a quote that is recited at the beginning of each chapter of the Quran, once again, big deal. Not malicious in any way. Actually, perfectly innocent. Everyone is entitled to their views and (Im sure this must be a shock to you) many Americans are not in support of what we are doing in the Middle East. I'm sure his father is one of them. So what? I'm not either, am I a traitor?
Once again, you misread my quote and used it to further your own opinion. I never even mentioned the twitter post in any of my posts. Jesus man, a little reading comprehension can go a long way.
Finally I'd like to point out that it has been made known my multiple news sources that he tried to escape his captors numerous times. Really sounds like a traitor to me. I will admit he EVENTUALLY was granted certain rights by his captures, whether to stay alive or because he had subtly joined them remains unknown.
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13020520:JAHpow said:
Nor you if you post Fox News links haha. At least get your information from a legitimate news organization...
Bombogenesis
Active member
13021591:milk_man said:
Censor those you disagree with.
The liberal way.
Bombogenesis
Active member
TOAST.
Active member
I recommend reading this.
http://www.newsweek.com/truth-behind-bowe-bergdahl-pow-prisoner-swap-253218
http://www.newsweek.com/truth-behind-bowe-bergdahl-pow-prisoner-swap-253218
TOAST.
Active member
las.
Active member
13022410:TOAST. said:
America isn't the authority on formally deciding who are terrorists and who aren't, as much as they would like to think so. Most importantly, do you have absolutely any idea of the terror and fear the Taliban have exported and caused in Afghanistan and it's neighbouring countries over the years? Probably not, I'm guessing
Campeador
Active member
13021316:Granite_State said:
You just keep digging yourself deeper. Your absolute definition of traitor is only a secondary definition within that dictionary. Again, even by your own source, one does not have to be convicted of treason in order to be a traitor, you're wrong if you say otherwise.
How can you not see the inappropriateness of quoting Islamic scripture to his traitorous, convert son? Especially at a Rose Garden event being broadcast all across the US. By the way, his Taliban-style beard is looking great, especially since he's grown it out to show solidarity with his son's captors.
His twitter communications were directed towards a Taliban member's twitter account. So yes, he was communicating openly with the Taliban. Working to release the terrorists held at Gitmo makes him a traitor, although I doubt he'd get so much help from the president.
Bergdahl tried to escape once, when he realized playing Taliban wasn't all he thought it would be. They allowed him to carry an AK-47 eventually, if he were a real American he would've taken as many of them out as possible.
He's a traitor through and through.
brighton__
Member
13022365:TOAST. said:
He's right, the taliban aren't technically the terrorists, they help the terrorists. Al Qaueda operates under the taliban.
las.
Active member
13023017:brighton__ said:
To america they're obviously not a direct terrorist threat. You wouldn't be saying they aren't terrorists though if you were Afghani or Pakistani or Iraqi or a Shia Muslim or even just lived within proximity of where they operate, trust me. They have commited countless atrocities, which I'll detail if you'd like evidence.
Additionally, to your last sentence, even if you were right and the Taliban didn't practise the spread of fear and terror and destruction, which they do, what does it say about them if they are willingly harbouring murderous criminals/known terrorists with open arms (which they also do)? Their relationship with Al Qaeda goes far, far deeper than that too.
Campeador
Active member
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/09/world/asia/pakistan-karachi-airport-attacks/13023017:brighton__ said:
They are terrorists, same as Boko Haram, al-Nusra, Hamas, Hizbollah and all the other Islamic terrorist groups out there, whether the state department cares to label them as such or not.
Just like the "War on Terror" is now the "Overseas Contingency Operation", the Taliban are no longer "terrorists" but rather "overseas people with whom we disagree."
Bombogenesis
Active member
Terrifying... If anyone votes for this bitch they need their head examined..
cobra_commander
Active member
Anyone who thinks 'we don't negotiate with terrorists' has ever been anything more than a catchy phrase needs to crack open a copy of 'the History of US foreign policy' by the United States of America.
I also don't view the Afghan Taliban as terrorists, anymore than the Nazi party was.
Talking heads want to make this issue black and white, which aside from 'we don't leave a man behind' it's not. Prisoner exchanges have long been a part of warfare. For over a decade we have justified Guantanamo Bay prison by calling these goat fuckers 'enemy combatants.'
Regardless of his intent and actions, he is a soldier in the US Army and has the right to a Court Martial under the UCMJ. Not to be left as Afghan rape meat.
At the end of the day we need to acknowledge that under the current time table and conditions the Taliban will be involved in Afghan politics. Do we want the Afghan Taliban to be influenced only by ISI and relatively new hard liners out of Pakistan or would having some older guys who can remember what we did to them after they let bin Ladin and AQ hang out?
I also don't view the Afghan Taliban as terrorists, anymore than the Nazi party was.
Talking heads want to make this issue black and white, which aside from 'we don't leave a man behind' it's not. Prisoner exchanges have long been a part of warfare. For over a decade we have justified Guantanamo Bay prison by calling these goat fuckers 'enemy combatants.'
Regardless of his intent and actions, he is a soldier in the US Army and has the right to a Court Martial under the UCMJ. Not to be left as Afghan rape meat.
At the end of the day we need to acknowledge that under the current time table and conditions the Taliban will be involved in Afghan politics. Do we want the Afghan Taliban to be influenced only by ISI and relatively new hard liners out of Pakistan or would having some older guys who can remember what we did to them after they let bin Ladin and AQ hang out?
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
Tried to stay out for the most part in regards to controversial statements but this does not look good for him
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2014/06/11/washington-post-bergdahl-discharged-from-coast-guard-for-psychological-reasons/WCo1kZFaO0MVJzHM1PHo2I/story.html?p1=Topopage:Carousel_sub_headline
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2014/06/11/washington-post-bergdahl-discharged-from-coast-guard-for-psychological-reasons/WCo1kZFaO0MVJzHM1PHo2I/story.html?p1=Topopage:Carousel_sub_headline
Bombogenesis
Active member
13024810:Bombogenesis said:
Oops
http://www.examiner.com/article/hillary-clinton-it-doesn-t-matter-if-bowe-bergdahl-deserted-his-unit
las.
Active member
13026321:cobra_commander said:
I'm sorry, but anyone who says this and actually believes it has no idea what they're talking about, and is obviously completely oblivious to what occurs over there on almost a daily basis. Though, I think it's understandably very hard for people living in civilized, democratic countries to glimpse what it would be like living in one of these insanely volatile areas for even a day. Get an actual understanding of the Taliban and their affiliates and how they function in Afghani society and its neighbouring states, put yourself in a persons shoes who is affected by their operations, then tell me with a straight face you still don't consider them terrorists.
Furthermore: ter-ror-ism noun
1. The use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. The state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. A terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.
4. The state of being terrorized.
Are you actually trying to tell me none of these definitions apply to the Taliban and/or the people who they affect?
cobra_commander
Active member
I think I have a pretty good understanding of the Taliban.
You also chose to quote only part of what I said, missing the key comparison.
Al Quida are terrorists. The Taliban is a violent political organization.
You also chose to quote only part of what I said, missing the key comparison.
Al Quida are terrorists. The Taliban is a violent political organization.