X Games 2021

14235493:OCoffey said:

what a great post full of critical thinking and well thought out statements. Henrik should have gotten scored higher but he would have not even cracked the top 3 ppl need to step back and stop being so bias because they dont like one skier and love another.
 
No gunna lie I wanted Woodsy to win to see if Planks would actually refund the people that bought his signature series outerwear today.

Also I don’t like Andy Spaghetti and they even showed his tiktok which makes me hate him more.
 
Yall already know if they make that jump bigger next year, Andri is dropping two different quads... i wish birk were in this so he could drop the cork zero again just to fuck the judges.
 
Man, according to this thread your value as a skier is entirely attached to how long the skis you ride are. Believe it or not but it is scored out of two runs not one, and it's not a level 1 movie.

I don't know why people get upset that people win a comp with bigs spins and big tricks when the comp is literally focused on big spins and big tricks. If you don't like it turn off ESPN and go watch the bunch. Christ. I guess now everytime I see a ski movie, I'm gonna complain about how there weren't enough quads just like everyone complains about every little part of the xgames.
 
14235495:eheath said:
what a great post full of critical thinking and well thought out statements. Henrik should have gotten scored higher but he would have not even cracked the top 3 ppl need to step back and stop being so bias because they dont like one skier and love another.

simp
 
The year is 2034. X-games big air is now a 10-foot run-in with a picnic table. The winning trick is a nose press 180. Only Elizabeth Swaney is allowed to compete because "spinning" is banned ( If you spin you have no style). She scores a 10,000 for style points with her 180. Elizabeth Swaney is considered the most stylish skier of all time because she doesn't spin. She is on her 5th gold medal.

NS praises her because " At least she don't spin to win"
 
I am dumber for having read this thead. Fuck me. Ragettli was head and shoulders ahead of anyone else. Genuine progression. Not even close.

He’s the Bobby Brown of the 2020’s, just without the Red Bull sponsorship. Just not enough of knuckle dragger for many of you
 
14235485:eheath said:
Put some gd respect on some insane tricks, y'all would be fired up if you switched him out with literally any other skier.

You’re absolutely right. At the end of the day, nobody can argue that those tricks didn’t deserve the win and weren’t fucking insane. Everyone just wishes they would’ve been thrown by literally anyone else.

Andri cares about Andri. Andri cares about going viral. Andri cares about being reposted on House of Highlights and how many people go and comment on it.
 
3 NBDs is definitely gold medal worthy. I just think Andri is severely lacking in style. Makes me salty

14235485:eheath said:
Anyone mad about the judging doesn't understand what they're watching, andri did 3 NBDs in a row... at least to my knowledge. That trip 18 rotation has definitely never been done, a 1920 has been done once and his was literally perfect and the trip 16 has been done many times as a dub 10 but idk if I've ever seen it done as a triple. Put some gd respect on some insane tricks, y'all would be fired up if you switched him out with literally any other skier.
 
Big air was a really good show imo. So many people deserved a podium spot because the level of tricks was insane.

The judging was at least consistent (except for Henricks 18) in that big clean spins won. I think we can all agree though that they need to weight the difficulty of grabs and rotations more than pure degrees of spin. ABM's octo switch during a triple 14 is nuts and adds just as much technicality as an extra turn. People should be rewarded for doing something new and different.

Now I'll be controversial and defend Andri a bit, because he did some new things we've never seen before. When he saw Quinn's dub 9 and then went and upped it to a trip 12, that shit was pure cold hearted competition. Does he look dopey with short ass skis and no poles, yes. But the judges can't dock him points for that and its not a personality contest.

Personal favorites: A Halls nosegrab insanity, Quinn's triple front, and all of Evan's landings.
 
14235485:eheath said:
Anyone mad about the judging doesn't understand what they're watching, andri did 3 NBDs in a row... at least to my knowledge. That trip 18 rotation has definitely never been done, a 1920 has been done once and his was literally perfect and the trip 16 has been done many times as a dub 10 but idk if I've ever seen it done as a triple. Put some gd respect on some insane tricks, y'all would be fired up if you switched him out with literally any other skier.

not to take a stance on any of that really as I am still processing it all with the results and what was thrown (just watching highlights couldn't see the full comp), but I'm 99.9% sure Birk Ruud did that same trip 18 rotation in a recent X Games, either Aspen or Norway can't exactly remember which.

Not to negate that it's crazy af, but many NBDs done that night many of which are probably pretty unique to such a skier for some time. I'm pretty sure no matter what Andri was a podium skier from that night, the trip 12 from Andri was other wordly and the trip 19 was stupid clean, but so many crazy things done with such unique style that I'm not so sure he should have been the winner.
 
14235601:thebusiness19 said:
not to take a stance on any of that really as I am still processing it all with the results and what was thrown (just watching highlights couldn't see the full comp), but I'm 99.9% sure Birk Ruud did that same trip 18 rotation in a recent X Games, either Aspen or Norway can't exactly remember which.

Not to negate that it's crazy af, but many NBDs done that night many of which are probably pretty unique to such a skier for some time. I'm pretty sure no matter what Andri was a podium skier from that night, the trip 12 from Andri was other wordly and the trip 19 was stupid clean, but so many crazy things done with such unique style that I'm not so sure he should have been the winner.

You might be right, either way thats 1 other person that has done it, but i think the 1920 and trip 12 were his scores, no?
 
14235563:SkiBum. said:
Best they could do on that jump.

Would love to see a real Jump but not this year. See what happens next year.

I mean it was a 'real jump" wdym? its just built into the slope course, the jump isn't small, 1920s don't happen often neither do multiple 18s, seems like they did the best their body's could do.
 
14235602:eheath said:
You might be right, either way thats 1 other person that has done it, but i think the 1920 and trip 12 were his scores, no?

Ya I guess you're right on that

If I were to make any comment on judging it would be that the 45+ should really be reserved for the "is there a game changing factor here" for a contest like X Games Big Air. Tricks that probably won't be done by any other skier in the near future in the way that it is being done by the skier throwing it. I know Andri's 19 was marked 48.

Like stuff that is seriously pretty innovative for the 45+, the trip 12 from Andri for sure is 45+. I think the trip 19 probably should have been 45 flat, and the 45 flat should be probably the threshold for a trick that's massive in terms of rotation and pretty clean. ABM's octo to octo, Henrik's switch 18, A Hall's dub 16 nose and probably the switch 18 buick, Antoine's pre nose and trip nosemute should have all been 45+. Some of those hits probably were scored as such and not sure if what I am saying is even necessarily inconsistent with the results, other than I think Andri's 19 should have been 45 max and a hit like ABM's octo to octo should have been noticeably scored higher than the 19
 
14235613:thebusiness19 said:
Ya I guess you're right on that

If I were to make any comment on judging it would be that the 45+ should really be reserved for the "is there a game changing factor here" for a contest like X Games Big Air. Tricks that probably won't be done by any other skier in the near future in the way that it is being done by the skier throwing it. I know Andri's 19 was marked 48.

Like stuff that is seriously pretty innovative for the 45+, the trip 12 from Andri for sure is 45+. I think the trip 19 probably should have been 45 flat, and the 45 flat should be probably the threshold for a trick that's massive in terms of rotation and pretty clean. ABM's octo to octo, Henrik's switch 18, A Hall's dub 16 nose and probably the switch 18 buick, Antoine's pre nose and trip nosemute should have all been 45+. Some of those hits probably were scored as such and not sure if what I am saying is even necessarily inconsistent with the results, other than I think Andri's 19 should have been 45 max and a hit like ABM's octo to octo should have been noticeably scored higher than the 19

Well the way judging works, the actually score is irrelevant, its basically a rank. Diving deep into the numbers is just a waste, they vary for every event.
 
I just wish Andri wouldn't have landed those tricks so fucking perfectly, then it would've made it easier to judge. The level was just absolutely crazy, I just hope the difficulty of the grabs get factored more so that we could avoid having two safety grabs winning gold when you get guys grabbing octo to octo, double seatbelt, stupid crazy nose, pre-nose, or triple grab triple (I don't think we talk enough about that guys, Adelisse had more grab variety on one single trick than Andri on the whole comp).
 
14235633:SPK_ said:
I just wish Andri wouldn't have landed those tricks so fucking perfectly, then it would've made it easier to judge. The level was just absolutely crazy, I just hope the difficulty of the grabs get factored more so that we could avoid having two safety grabs winning gold when you get guys grabbing octo to octo, double seatbelt, stupid crazy nose, pre-nose, or triple grab triple (I don't think we talk enough about that guys, Adelisse had more grab variety on one single trick than Andri on the whole comp).

EDIT: My bad, Andri also did a mute. Jeez can't he just let me have any argument to denigrate him?? Now he's forcing me back to his ski size, what a douche.
 
ABM’s octo to octo did not get the points it deserved. Antoine’s triple grab was about as tech as it gets. McEachran has the smoothest landings in the game, and I don’t think he gets the credit he deserves for that. AHall’s nose grabs are gnarly as hell, but they don’t make for a good looking trick at all.

I was really hoping for a future spin. Or a switch right 10 mute for old time sake.
 
Yeah man right on

14235645:Lemuel said:
ABM’s octo to octo did not get the points it deserved. Antoine’s triple grab was about as tech as it gets. McEachran has the smoothest landings in the game, and I don’t think he gets the credit he deserves for that. AHall’s nose grabs are gnarly as hell, but they don’t make for a good looking trick at all.

I was really hoping for a future spin. Or a switch right 10 mute for old time sake.

The problem with X games is it only shows who can throw big tricks. It doesn’t reward diversity. It doesn’t reward creativity. It rewards whoever has been to the most jump camps.

I have stopped watching Xgames because of nights like last night. Slvsh and rail jams like the steel city thing last year will always be the most relevant way of comparing skiers to me
 
I understand that skiing will never be super mainstream and I love it but for Andri’s triple cork 1980 to be 10th on Sportscenter’s Top 10 last night is so funny to me.

You’re telling me that level of human achievement wasn’t as impressive as some dunks on the basketball court? ?
 
14235485:eheath said:
Anyone mad about the judging doesn't understand what they're watching, andri did 3 NBDs in a row... at least to my knowledge. That trip 18 rotation has definitely never been done, a 1920 has been done once and his was literally perfect and the trip 16 has been done many times as a dub 10 but idk if I've ever seen it done as a triple. Put some gd respect on some insane tricks, y'all would be fired up if you switched him out with literally any other skier.

This, basically. And for context, I worked with Evan for years and we barely ever agreed on anything. As a rule, I am not a fan of contests at all. In fact, I don't really believe you can judge 'freeskiing' in any objective way. I think all contests with rules do is push everyone towards some standardized idea of 'best', regardless of whether it's Big Air, X Games Real Ski, or Freeride World Tour.

But the crazy thing is that it's the exact same people getting salty that grabs/ grab combos didn't make the difference last night as those who got angry when Oystein DID win several comps for exactly the same thing with his blunt to blunt switch dubs (when some guys were doing more flips/spins). People seem to be totally incapable of separating who they want to win from what actually gets thrown down when looking at this stuff... which is why Simon Dumont has an X Games Big Air gold and judges end up doing what they have to do.

**This post was edited on Feb 1st 2021 at 8:05:55am
 
obviously we're not experts on judging and what goes into it, but yeah, some of us do want to know what the qualifications are for some of these judges as well as their logic behind how they grade tricks. I dont think thats so wrong to ask about, enough of this backroom secrecy shit with judging. At least show us a profile on them prior to the comp like they do with refs in the NFL or in the NHL or something.

and yeah, the inconsistencies with judging and the structure of scoring in freeskiing is exactly why its not going to be a popular sport to the general public because even the general public can point out these inconsistencies yet theres not much defense or explanation on behalf of the judges ever. At least make a thread or something. Show yourself.

**This post was edited on Jan 31st 2021 at 11:56:56am
 
I remember last year Fabian Bosch did a trip 1980 in qualifiers and they scored it way low and he didn’t make finals.Tom said something like well that makes sense because he is spinning like aerials and judges don’t like that. Now Andri does it and they score it in the high forties. So which is it do they like whoever spins most or whoever is most creative?
 
14235490:eheath said:
Classic post xgames event post "*insert my favorite skier* got a low score on a trick the judges suck!!!"

You literally just sucked off Andri about his NBDs and then go and disregard Harlaut's NBD.
 
I think a big part of the problem is that the format and even the criteria changes. Or, contest to contest, different aspects of the criteria seem to be weighted differently.

The criteria itself seems consistent (technicality in rotation and grabs, amplitude, execution in the trick and landing, creativity in takeoff/axis/grab combos, and overall impression/style) but the way the various elements are valued seems to change a lot event to event. Last night’s big air is a good example of where degree of rotation and execution seemed to be the biggest determining factor, whereas we’ve seen AHall win contests spinning 360-540 less than others.

It’s really hard for a sport like this. We really don’t want to be aerials or even moguls where certain tricks are assigned a certain score and then based on that highest possible score for each trick, deductions are made based on the execution of the trick. However, because so much of this sport is subjective, it makes scoring and consistency event to event really hard.

I personally think every event should be based on overall impression, and creativity/progression. I personally would have no problem explaining my rankings and maybe that could happen to some extent, publicly. I don’t know exactly what that would look like, and maybe it’s not realistic, I don’t know.

I do know that in larger comps, between quails/semis and finals, judges will tell athletes what they’re looking for or why a certain run scored a certain way, and what would need to be different for it to score higher. So there is transparency on that level. It’s one thing when the viewers don’t understand why the judges liked run B more than A, but it’s a real issue when the riders don’t know.

One thing I hate though? Watching dudes switch snowplow. That shit is gross and there’s no excuse in my opinion for any guy at this level to do it. It just screams “I spend all year on a trampoline”. For me, that’s why I struggle to fully give props to Ragettli and even Boesch. Yes, they’re wildly talented and gotta respect what they’re doing—and I do— but I will personally always just appreciate what guys like Colby, AHall, even Evan Mac and Woodsy bring to the table between the features.

However you want to judge these things, especially talking slope, first and foremost guys should look comfortable and smooth, and at home on their skis.

These judges have a tough and thankless job.

14235711:chrisjbauer said:
I remember last year Fabian Bosch did a trip 1980 in qualifiers and they scored it way low and he didn’t make finals.Tom said something like well that makes sense because he is spinning like aerials and judges don’t like that. Now Andri does it and they score it in the high forties. So which is it do they like whoever spins most or whoever is most creative?
 
14235753:BigNol said:
Yeah but no idea why... maybe wanted more practice for knuckle huck?

That doesnt make any sense haha the knuckle huck course is the end of the slope course lol
 
I really want to know what’s up. I don’t remember him ever looking so bummed on a score as he was when he got that 38. He looked stunned.

Who knows what’s up, but I hope he didn’t just say fuck it. Not trying to start a rumor, I have no clue why he is a DNS.

14235753:BigNol said:
Yeah but no idea why... maybe wanted more practice for knuckle huck?
 
Loved Ferdi’s run. First rail feature a lil underwhelming...did he want more coming out of it and missed the set?
 
Nick is a G, I like him, he’s really good....but if you showed me that run out of context, I’d be like “Damn! Is that the Gold run from 2015?”
 
Are they showing the score and I’m just missing it? I think it’s a bit whack that they aren’t showing it. If I were Goepper, I’d want to know where I sit and what someone needs to beat me.

Also, holy shit the 2nd jump is basically the landing of the first jump. Ridiculously close. This course is stupid. Thank god some of the competitors have been getting a bit more creative on the rail features
 
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