Vegan/plant-based gabber

[fries]

With more and more talk about climate change in the community, many skiers are cutting out meat/animal products from their diet, even the boss henrik himself has gone veggie to help keep his body in shape for his skiing. (see 6:45)

According the most comprehensive analysis yet on the food system’s impact on the environment, huge meat reductions are essential in avoiding a climate breakdown. The new research, published in the world’s leading multidisciplinary science journal, Nature, is the most thorough to date and combined data from every country to assess the impact of food production on the global environment. UK and US citizens need to cut beef by 90% and milk by 60% while increasing beans and pulses between four and six times. (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0594-0)

Transitioning towards a plant-based diet could be a nice way to reduce your personal impact. No need to fear, you can get all the protein and nutrients you need from plants. If you have questions, looking for some cheap/quick meals, or just like to bitch at vegans, you've found your place.

 

[corona]

10 years ago this would have turned into an 8 page thread about meat.

 

[AndrewGravesSV]

In the past few months after moving to SLC a lot of my new friends are vegans and the food they make is dank. I think to be vegan you need to have an eye on food and the prep work goes a long way for taste too. I dunno if I'll ever be fully vegan but with how commonplace some of the options are now its easy to cut way back on your meat intake. The majority of people cutting back and trying to become more plant based will do more for a cultural shift than 1/10 people going vegan

 

[fries]

In the past few months after moving to SLC a lot of my new friends are vegans and the food they make is dank. I think to be vegan you need to have an eye on food and the prep work goes a long way for taste too. I dunno if I'll ever be fully vegan but with how commonplace some of the options are now its easy to cut way back on your meat intake. The majority of people cutting back and trying to become more plant based will do more for a cultural shift than 1/10 people going vegan

Options are definitely getting so much better. The great thing is that there is no single "vegan" diet. Tbh I pretty much eat a mirrored version of what I would normally have had before. Spaghetti, plant-based burgers, pizza, stir fries, things like that. Looking around online there is an excess of ridiculously complicated recipes. It took me a good few months to realize that I was making it too hard on myself. If you just look for the swaps you can make in dishes you already eat, life becomes so much more simple. Because fuck those recipes that are like "1 clove of garlic, 1/2 cup arrowroot flour, 3 tbsp of apple cider vinegar"...

 

[OregonDead]

meat is great but the recommended guidelines are there for a reason and too much meat will make you inefficient. also the goal is to eat at least a full ounce of dietary fiber per day and there is no fiber in meat

 

[fries]

meat is great but the recommended guidelines are there for a reason and too much meat will make you inefficient. also the goal is to eat at least a full ounce of dietary fiber per day and there is no fiber in meat

Hahaha I think you meant this for the carnivore thread below

 

[JAHpow]

10 years ago this would have turned into an 8 page thread about meat.

Still can!!

View attachment 952063













ommmggggggg

 

[OregonDead]

Hahaha I think you meant this for the carnivore thread below

I was replying to this thread. IMO meat is a great part of a plant-based or vegetarian diet. Really a good source of protein and who knows what else. My guess is we still haven't discovered all of the micro-nutrients in various animal products. I know a lot of people that self identify as vegetarian and all of them eat at least some sort of meat product on occasion. I know vegetarians that like pork fat in their beans even though they will not eat flesh. I know a guy that is basically vegan except for pepperoni of all things and he is probably the most outspoken proponent of vegetarianism that I know

 

[270on420out]

I'm still not convinced that a vegan diet is as healthy as it seems. I'm all for carbon footprint reduction and I don't doubt that eating large amounts of fruit and vegetables is good for you, but I'm not convinced that a well-rounded diet is less healthy than a diet that has only been practiced for the past several decades (widespread at least).

 

[fries]

I'm still not convinced that a vegan diet is as healthy as it seems. I'm all for carbon footprint reduction and I don't doubt that eating large amounts of fruit and vegetables is good for you, but I'm not convinced that a well-rounded diet is less healthy than a diet that has only been practiced for the past several decades (widespread at least).

You talking about nutritionally adequate, or healthy?

All the major dietetics and health organizations in the world agree that vegan and vegetarian diets are just as healthy as omnivorous diets. You probably don’t but if you want the links to some of these studies, I’d be happy to post them in here!

 

[ALMIGHTYSOSA]

dis sum age of Aquarius shit bih

 

[ShadowXVX]

Based thread.

I'm still not convinced that a vegan diet is as healthy as it seems. I'm all for carbon footprint reduction and I don't doubt that eating large amounts of fruit and vegetables is good for you, but I'm not convinced that a well-rounded diet is less healthy than a diet that has only been practiced for the past several decades (widespread at least).

Human physiology is most similar to that of frugivorous animals, and our closest relatives (great apes) eat primarily frugivorous and nearly entirely herbivorous diets. And some humans who still live isolated tribal lives are herbivores. While 'veganism' as a word or movement is new, an herbivorous diet is not.

 

[OregonDead]

Based thread.

Human physiology is most similar to that of frugivorous animals, and our closest relatives (great apes) eat primarily frugivorous and nearly entirely herbivorous diets. And some humans who still live isolated tribal lives are herbivores. While 'veganism' as a word or movement is new, an herbivorous diet is not.

I think humans are more opportunists. Fruit doesn't even grow some of the places where people have lived for eons. Totally possible get your nutrition from the stomachs of animals that eat stuff that people can't really eat.

People love to eat bugs. You can say that bugs aren't meat or that fish are bugs and I will not care but you can't convince me that those things are plants. Also mushrooms and various fungi are closer to animals than plants

 

[TheMoostafian]

meat is a great part of a vegetarian diet.

Please, tell me more

 

[p3cific]

 

[270on420out]

Human physiology is most similar to that of frugivorous animals, and our closest relatives (great apes) eat primarily frugivorous and nearly entirely herbivorous diets.

Mankind split off from the precursor to both humans and apes about 3 million years ago. The food that chimps eat is completely irrelevant.

**This post was edited on Jan 22nd 2020 at 8:53:56pm

 

[270on420out]

You talking about nutritionally adequate, or healthy?

All the major dietetics and health organizations in the world agree that vegan and vegetarian diets are just as healthy as omnivorous diets. You probably don’t but if you want the links to some of these studies, I’d be happy to post them in here!

“Healthy” is a pretty loaded word so for the sake of argument, post the studies. I will legitimately read studies that would prove me wrong.

 

[TOAST.]

I'm still not convinced that a vegan diet is as healthy as it seems. I'm all for carbon footprint reduction and I don't doubt that eating large amounts of fruit and vegetables is good for you, but I'm not convinced that a well-rounded diet is less healthy than a diet that has only been practiced for the past several decades (widespread at least).

I agree with you that a well rounded diet is probably the best. That being said most americans eat wayyyyy to much meat. You should try cutting meat out of your diet for a little and see how you feel.

 

[JoeF2661]

I've been a Pescatarian for a minute now but honestly I kind of miss meat. Like some people have mentioned I think it's all about moderation. Really want to get back into hunting and just harvesting my own meat.

 

[fries]

I've been a Pescatarian for a minute now but honestly I kind of miss meat. Like some people have mentioned I think it's all about moderation. Really want to get back into hunting and just harvesting my own meat.

What do you miss about it? Cravings are likely to happen if you aren't getting your body that same fix of fat and protein after switching over. Plant-based meats like beyond meat are a great way to get your body what it's looking for if you encounter the occasional craving. Eventually you'll stop thinking about it if you're eating a well balanced diet. How long have you been pescatarian?

 

[270on420out]

I agree with you that a well rounded diet is probably the best. That being said most americans eat wayyyyy to much meat. You should try cutting meat out of your diet for a little and see how you feel.

Oh yeah I agree 100%. Eating meat with every meal is way too much.

 

[RudyGarmisch]

All about removing meat at meals, but please think twice about plant based proteins, especially if you're buying high protein drinks, or plant based meat substitutes.

Swapping out a Kobe beef burger for an Impossible Foods patty or Beyond Meat sausage isn't necessarily (usually IMO) more sustainable or better for the environment. Making a gram of usable pea protein also produces 9 grams of poorly nutritious pea starch (think glass noodles - China is overrun with the stuff and is using it as a filler/bulker in food). Production on this scale requires massive industrial farming and mono crops. Some of it is grown in the US, shipped to China for processing, and then shipped back to the US to go into your plant burger. Hype creates unsustainable supply.

You can get all of the proper nutrition you need from select veggies. Nothing good comes easy - do your own research. Avoid Dr Oz and whatever the fuck is trending in Hollywood at all costs.

Also - we throw away something like 40% of the food produced in America. Finish your fucking plate at restaurants or get a box. Put your home food waste in a separate container - its honestly shocking how much we pitch into garbage bags that get buried in landfills instead of compost and soils.

 

[AndrewGravesSV]

Its worth saying too that just about all the vitamins you can get from meat you can get from plants. The vitamins in meat come from whatever that animal was eating and are in the animal because they've processed it already. Its possible to skip that step and go straight to the vitamins from plants!

 

[ShadowXVX]

I think humans are more opportunists. Fruit doesn't even grow some of the places where people have lived for eons. Totally possible get your nutrition from the stomachs of animals that eat stuff that people can't really eat.

People love to eat bugs. You can say that bugs aren't meat or that fish are bugs and I will not care but you can't convince me that those things are plants. Also mushrooms and various fungi are closer to animals than plants

Of course eating bugs and eating fishes is the same as eating other animals. And yes, humans are opportunists and can survive on a diet consisting of a lot of animal-based nutrition. However, that doesn't mean that an omnivorous diet is ideal for humans, it just means that we're capable of surviving on it. We're still better off as herbivores. But even aside from that, an herbivorous diet has a drastically less harmful effect on animals and the planet, so it is still the way we should all be eating even if we disregard the health benefits.

Everything in your post is pretty much true (other than the last sentence; I don't know whether or not that is true so I won't comment on it) but that doesn't negate the fact that we can and should eat herbivorous diets.

 

[corona]

Of course eating bugs and eating fishes is the same as eating other animals. And yes, humans are opportunists and can survive on a diet consisting of a lot of animal-based nutrition. However, that doesn't mean that an omnivorous diet is ideal for humans, it just means that we're capable of surviving on it. We're still better off as herbivores. But even aside from that, an herbivorous diet has a drastically less harmful effect on animals and the planet, so it is still the way we should all be eating even if we disregard the health benefits.

Everything in your post is pretty much true (other than the last sentence; I don't know whether or not that is true so I won't comment on it) but that doesn't negate the fact that we can and should eat herbivorous diets.

Dude.. you literally make shit up.

"We're still better off as herbivores."

No. No we are not. Humans have evolved with meat as an important source of certain nutrients. Taking meat out of our diet means we need to find substitutes and plan our diet accordingly to not be deficient in certain nutrients. The easiest, healthiest diet you can have is a well balanced diet that involves some red meat for important and otherwise hard to get nutrients like vitamin D, B12, some fatty acids, and some proteins. The simple fact that a vegetarian or vegan has to go out of their way to try and keep their intake of these nutrients high enough to be healthy proves that a well balanced omnivorous diet is the best possible diet for us.

 

[fries]

Non-vegans love to point at B12 to discredit a plant-based diet as unnatural, while ignoring the fact that most supplements exist for and are consumed by omnivores. Milk, flour, bread, cereal, juice, table salt are all commonly fortified or enriched with various nutrients of modern concern including vitamin D, C, iodine, B12, riboflavin, thiamin, niacin, folic acid, calcium and iron. And why would an non-vegan ever need or want to take a protein supplement?!
https://www.verywellfit.com/what-are-enriched-and-fortified-foods-2506147

In the early 1900s, goiter (a disease of the thyroid gland) was relatively common in areas where iodine was deficient in the soil. In 1924, some salt makers added iodine to their product, which helped reduce the number of new cases of goiter dramatically within a short time.

Milk was first fortified with vitamin D in 1933 to ensure that a sufficient amount of calcium would be absorbed. A vitamin D deficiency can lead to rickets in children and osteoporosis in adults.

Today you'll find calcium-fortified orange juice, phytosterol-fortified margarine and vitamin and mineral fortified breakfast cereals in your local grocery store.

Also note that factory farmed animals, which make up 95 - 99% of animals in agriculturehttps://www.aspca.org/animal-cruelty/farm-animal-welfare have such poor living and feeding environments they must be given supplements such as cobalt for ruminants and B-complex (including cyanocobalamin) for pigs and birds:
https://www.wattagnet.com/articles/23125-3-reasons-b-vitamins-become-limiting-in-pig-poultry-feeds

In contrast, pigs and poultry require an external source of supplementation for all B vitamins, as the microbial fermentation in their large intestine does not cover their needs under modern production conditions.*

In pig and poultry diets, B vitamins are usually supplied through the medium of a vitamin and trace mineral premix that provides all vitamins and minerals -- that is, it ignores contributions from natural ingredients.

So a non-vegan that consumes bread, cereal, milk, salt and juice are taking in supplements without concern and commonly championed for good health. Meat products have usable levels of B12 in part thanks to supplements given to the animal.

But ultimately, supplementing, fortification and enrichment are practical solutions to common modern health concerns which we all gain benefit from whether we realise it or not!

 

[fries]

Dude.. you literally make shit up.

"We're still better off as herbivores."

No. No we are not. Humans have evolved with meat as an important source of certain nutrients. Taking meat out of our diet means we need to find substitutes and plan our diet accordingly to not be deficient in certain nutrients. The easiest, healthiest diet you can have is a well balanced diet that involves some red meat for important and otherwise hard to get nutrients like vitamin D, B12, some fatty acids, and some proteins. The simple fact that a vegetarian or vegan has to go out of their way to try and keep their intake of these nutrients high enough to be healthy proves that a well balanced omnivorous diet is the best possible diet for us.

See above post (I forgot to quote you whoops)

 

[xxACIDTRIPxx]

Hmmmm. I could never go plant based. For years I have been eating a diet of steak, eggs and a shitload of veggies and fruits.

and cheesecake, because it’s the best food ever.

 

[oldmanski]

Life is to short. Eat what you want when you want, just consume it in moderation.

 

[fries]

Life is to short. Eat what you want when you want, just consume it in moderation.

Life is too short to care about the environment? What stops you from tossing styrofoam cups out the window?

 

[oldmanski]

Life is too short to care about the environment? What stops you from tossing styrofoam cups out the window?

My comment is directed towards food not the environment. Life is to short to not eat what you want, just eat it in moderation.

 

[corona]

Non-vegans love to point at B12 to discredit a plant-based diet as unnatural, while ignoring the fact that most supplements exist for and are consumed by omnivores. Milk, flour, bread, cereal, juice, table salt are all commonly fortified or enriched with various nutrients of modern concern including vitamin D, C, iodine, B12, riboflavin, thiamin, niacin, folic acid, calcium and iron. And why would an non-vegan ever need or want to take a protein supplement?!
https://www.verywellfit.com/what-are-enriched-and-fortified-foods-2506147

In the early 1900s, goiter (a disease of the thyroid gland) was relatively common in areas where iodine was deficient in the soil. In 1924, some salt makers added iodine to their product, which helped reduce the number of new cases of goiter dramatically within a short time.

Milk was first fortified with vitamin D in 1933 to ensure that a sufficient amount of calcium would be absorbed. A vitamin D deficiency can lead to rickets in children and osteoporosis in adults.

Today you'll find calcium-fortified orange juice, phytosterol-fortified margarine and vitamin and mineral fortified breakfast cereals in your local grocery store.

Also note that factory farmed animals, which make up 95 - 99% of animals in agriculturehttps://www.aspca.org/animal-cruelty/farm-animal-welfare have such poor living and feeding environments they must be given supplements such as cobalt for ruminants and B-complex (including cyanocobalamin) for pigs and birds:
https://www.wattagnet.com/articles/23125-3-reasons-b-vitamins-become-limiting-in-pig-poultry-feeds

In contrast, pigs and poultry require an external source of supplementation for all B vitamins, as the microbial fermentation in their large intestine does not cover their needs under modern production conditions.*

In pig and poultry diets, B vitamins are usually supplied through the medium of a vitamin and trace mineral premix that provides all vitamins and minerals -- that is, it ignores contributions from natural ingredients.

So a non-vegan that consumes bread, cereal, milk, salt and juice are taking in supplements without concern and commonly championed for good health. Meat products have usable levels of B12 in part thanks to supplements given to the animal.

But ultimately, supplementing, fortification and enrichment are practical solutions to common modern health concerns which we all gain benefit from whether we realise it or not!

You proved my point perfectly. To have a healthy diet as a vegan, you need to take supplements. A well balanced diet with red meat requires no supplements. This is the simplest and most effective proof that this statement:

"However, that doesn't mean that an omnivorous diet is ideal for humans, it just means that we're capable of surviving on it. We're still better off as herbivores."

Is a total fabrication.

 

[corona]

I really dislike and disagree with the notion that eating meat is environmentally bad. What is far more important than your dietary choices is where you source your food from. Eating locally and sustainably should be the number one priority. A vegan who buys avocados from Mexico and soy product from the Amazon and quinoa from Peru is absolutely no better (and probably far worse) for the environment than someone who goes and hunts from a healthy forest ecosystem in their backyard or catches fish from the local lake. The focus should 100% be on where your food is sourced, not on what the food is.

It would be interesting to see a comparison in the ecological footprints for the diets of two people from a North American city: one who is a vegan and buys all their food at the supermarket and eats a 'typical' vegan diet, and another who eats a balanced diet that includes meat and buys all their food from local and sustainable sources.

 

[fries]

You proved my point perfectly. To have a healthy diet as a vegan, you need to take supplements. A well balanced diet with red meat requires no supplements. This is the simplest and most effective proof that this statement:

"However, that doesn't mean that an omnivorous diet is ideal for humans, it just means that we're capable of surviving on it. We're still better off as herbivores."

Is a total fabrication.

The point of that post is to show that supplements are a modern innovation which is widespread throughout our food system. Vegan diets are not the exception.

The only essential nutrient not available in a vegan diet is vitamin b12. As I mentioned, this is commonly supplemented into livestock feed. You may still be getting your b12 from supplements, whether you’re aware of it or not.

B12 is produced by microbes that blanket our natural environment. This would typically be present on vegetables, in well water, and so on. In the sanitary world we live in today, we lose this nutrient. For that reason, it’s more efficient to just, drink some oat milk fortified with B12. You know, as the rest of the civilized world is doing with Vitamin D.

Hope this makes sense. I didn’t really intend this to be a debate thread so if you don’t care for veganism, no hard feelings. Just a possible option for counteracting climate change. Have a good one brother.

 

[corona]

The point of that post is to show that supplements are a modern innovation which is widespread throughout our food system. Vegan diets are not the exception.

The only essential nutrient not available in a vegan diet is vitamin b12. As I mentioned, this is commonly supplemented into livestock feed. You may still be getting your b12 from supplements, whether you’re aware of it or not.

B12 is produced by microbes that blanket our natural environment. This would typically be present on vegetables, in well water, and so on. In the sanitary world we live in today, we lose this nutrient. For that reason, it’s more efficient to just, drink some oat milk fortified with B12. You know, as the rest of the civilized world is doing with Vitamin D.

Hope this makes sense. I didn’t really intend this to be a debate thread so if you don’t care for veganism, no hard feelings. Just a possible option for counteracting climate change. Have a good one brother.

I think you totally misunderstood what I was originally getting at.. and I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying. The point I was getting at that you clearly don't disagree with is the notion that humans are better off as herbivores than omnivores. A point proven by the fact that a herbivorous diet needs special attention to avoid deficiencies, where a well balanced omnivorous diet does not. I'm not at all saying vegans can't be just as healthy, it just requires more work since humans evolved as omnivores.

 

[fries]

I think you totally misunderstood what I was originally getting at.. and I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying. The point I was getting at that you clearly don't disagree with is the notion that humans are better off as herbivores than omnivores. A point proven by the fact that a herbivorous diet needs special attention to avoid deficiencies, where a well balanced omnivorous diet does not. I'm not at all saying vegans can't be just as healthy, it just requires more work since humans evolved as omnivores.

I think you’re referring to someone else’s post, it wasn’t me that said that. Hahaha

 

[SnickleFriz]

I really dislike and disagree with the notion that eating meat is environmentally bad. What is far more important than your dietary choices is where you source your food from. Eating locally and sustainably should be the number one priority. A vegan who buys avocados from Mexico and soy product from the Amazon and quinoa from Peru is absolutely no better (and probably far worse) for the environment than someone who goes and hunts from a healthy forest ecosystem in their backyard or catches fish from the local lake. The focus should 100% be on where your food is sourced, not on what the food is.

It would be interesting to see a comparison in the ecological footprints for the diets of two people from a North American city: one who is a vegan and buys all their food at the supermarket and eats a 'typical' vegan diet, and another who eats a balanced diet that includes meat and buys all their food from local and sustainable sources.

Why does the meat eater get to source locally when the veg-whatever has to import?

I could rack up a repulsive carbon footprint by ordering hundreds of 6-piece lego sets, one at a time, off of alibaba...

http://www.greeneatz.com/foods-carbon-footprint.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/07/25/vegetarianism-climate-change-meat-vegan-livestock-column/1804090001/



**This post was edited on Jan 23rd 2020 at 6:21:20pm

**This post was edited on Jan 23rd 2020 at 6:22:30pm

 

[corona]

Why does the meat eater get to source locally when the veg-whatever has to import?

I could rack up a repulsive carbon footprint by ordering hundreds of 6-piece lego sets, one at a time, off of alibaba...

http://www.greeneatz.com/foods-carbon-footprint.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/07/25/vegetarianism-climate-change-meat-vegan-livestock-column/1804090001/



**This post was edited on Jan 23rd 2020 at 6:21:20pm

**This post was edited on Jan 23rd 2020 at 6:22:30pm

The point I'm making is vegans typically harp on eating meat as being so bad for the environment, but at the same time eat avocados and other foods that are causing ecological nightmares. It's hypocritical as fuck. If you want to change something for the better, don't change to veganism, change where you source your food.

 

[corona]

Or change to veganism AND source your food better if you really want to make the biggest change.

But no vegans talk about that. It's all about meat being the scourge of the earth, nothing about the fact their quinoa salad traveled 5000km and is raising the prices of a staple food beyond what local Peruvians/Bolivians can afford. Nope, that's fine. But if you eat meat you're the reason why the climate is changing.

 

[fries]

Or change to veganism AND source your food better if you really want to make the biggest change.

But no vegans talk about that. It's all about meat being the scourge of the earth, nothing about the fact their quinoa salad traveled 5000km and is raising the prices of a staple food beyond what local Peruvians/Bolivians can afford. Nope, that's fine. But if you eat meat you're the reason why the climate is changing.

Who said you have to eat quinoa or avocados to be vegan? If you’re concerned about sourcing your food locally, I support it wholeheartedly. But as you mention, the two aren’t mutually exclusive. Just because vegan doesn’t mean perfection, does not mean we should aim to cause the most harm by eating an animal product based diet.

also- animal agriculture is responsible for 18% of greenhouse gas emissions. Transportation is responsible for 13%.
http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/a0701e/a0701e00.HTM
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emissions-data

 

[elcheapo]

I was raised to believe "vegetarians are just lousy hunters" but we got to keep the air clean no doubt, I could probably eat more refried beans instead of beef I guess or fish ,the don't bother the air right.

 

[JoeF2661]

What do you miss about it? Cravings are likely to happen if you aren't getting your body that same fix of fat and protein after switching over. Plant-based meats like beyond meat are a great way to get your body what it's looking for if you encounter the occasional craving. Eventually you'll stop thinking about it if you're eating a well balanced diet. How long have you been pescatarian?

Going on about 5 months now. I've tried the plant based "meat" and don't really enjoy it. I truly feel healthy eating is all in the prep and finding the time. I guess there not real cravings but when I see a roommate of mine chowing down on some carne asada or some dank pizza it makes me think. I went this route from an environmental standpoint and also I was at a point in my life where I needed to change not only my diet but my entire lifestyle choices.

 

[fries]

Going on about 5 months now. I've tried the plant based "meat" and don't really enjoy it. I truly feel healthy eating is all in the prep and finding the time. I guess there not real cravings but when I see a roommate of mine chowing down on some carne asada or some dank pizza it makes me think. I went this route from an environmental standpoint and also I was at a point in my life where I needed to change not only my diet but my entire lifestyle choices.

Nice job on 5 months! It just takes some searching around, over time I've been able to find recipes which have the same satisfying flavors and textures. It's just a matter of reconstructing your diet and finding new foods to get excited over. With time, your taste buds will change and life pretty much returns to the normal routine. If something comes up that makes me miss an old favorite, I'll make a few swaps in the recipe and whip it up.

 

[corona]

Who said you have to eat quinoa or avocados to be vegan? If you’re concerned about sourcing your food locally, I support it wholeheartedly. But as you mention, the two aren’t mutually exclusive. Just because vegan doesn’t mean perfection, does not mean we should aim to cause the most harm by eating an animal product based diet.

also- animal agriculture is responsible for 18% of greenhouse gas emissions. Transportation is responsible for 13%.
http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/a0701e/a0701e00.HTM
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emissions-data

No one. They're called examples. There's certainly no lack of examples of foods which are common staples in vegan diets which are not in the slightest bit environmentally friendly even when there are perfectly good alternatives available. Keep in mind that someone who decides to not cut meat out of their diet and instead makes other changes (not necessarily diet related) can be much more successful in reducing their overall footprint than someone simply going vegan. As you would say, being environmentally conscious does not mean perfection.

A better battle than trying to convince people to go vegan would be one that everyone could be on board with, like reducing food waste. 1/3 of the food produced worldwide goes to waste. Why not spend the time trying to eliminate that instead, it would be a far better issue to solve.

Also - your source (epa.gov source) says transportation is 14% and "Agriculture, Forestry, and other land use" is 24%. Considering ~15% of the worlds caloric intake comes from meat, and energy retained is ~10% per trophic level, then animal agriculture would emit roughly 14% if forestry and 'other land use' was 0%.

 

[elcheapo]

I'm all for this alternative meat crap, any hype to help the environment is good hype imo

 

[SnickleFriz]

I'm all for this alternative meat crap, any hype to help the environment is good hype imo

burgers errday < red meat once a week < meat substitutes < homesteading

**This post was edited on Jan 24th 2020 at 5:58:59pm

 

[extravert]

Feels like there is a big cultural shift around this, at least in my area. Lots more people willing to try eating less meat or none at all. Check out Gamechangers on Netflix for a doc about pro athletes who are veg. Some of the claims are a bit crazy but overall pretty interesting

 

[TheMoostafian]

I'm all for this alternative meat crap, any hype to help the environment is good hype imo

I’m on board with anything that helps the environment, and some of this new fake meat stuff is actually pretty tasty. BUT, it’s always packaged in a thick plastic tray with cellophane and then a laminated paper sleeve around it. Doesn’t seem very environmentally friendly.

I try to only eat animals that I kill myself, or that I purchase whole from a farm in the county I live in (and I usually end up slaughtering and butchering those myself). I think that is very environmentally friendly; zero petroleum or paper products required and very little fuel burned to transport the food.

 

[ShadowXVX]

Dude.. you literally make shit up.

"We're still better off as herbivores."

No. No we are not. Humans have evolved with meat as an important source of certain nutrients. Taking meat out of our diet means we need to find substitutes and plan our diet accordingly to not be deficient in certain nutrients. The easiest, healthiest diet you can have is a well balanced diet that involves some red meat for important and otherwise hard to get nutrients like vitamin D, B12, some fatty acids, and some proteins. The simple fact that a vegetarian or vegan has to go out of their way to try and keep their intake of these nutrients high enough to be healthy proves that a well balanced omnivorous diet is the best possible diet for us.

The fact that you think veganism has any affect whatsoever on D or B12 deficiency goes to show that you know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about. B12 comes from microbes and is naturally found in soil. Due to modern intensive cleaning of our food (which I am all for, by the way), B12 doesn't naturally occur in adequate quantities in our diets unless it is fortified or suplemented. This goes for animal and plant based foods. The only reason that B12 is found in some animal products is because the animals are fed grain/etc that is fortified with B12. Whether you are eating animal products containing B12, plant-based milk containing B12, multivitamins, etc, no matter what, you are getting synthetic and/or fortified/suplemented B12.

You clearly are more interested in defending yourself and making up false arguments (i.e. "being vegan makes it hard to get B12", to paraphrase) so I'm not interested in continuing this discussion with you.

 

[ShadowXVX]

Mankind split off from the precursor to both humans and apes about 3 million years ago. The food that chimps eat is completely irrelevant.

**This post was edited on Jan 22nd 2020 at 8:53:56pm

Sure, but there are still trends among herbivores vs omnivores vs carnivores regarding stomach acidity, intestinal length, etc.

 

[T.L.]

Sorry, but if you're not eating bat soup and caterpillars for every meal you're an uncultured swine.