Vegan/plant-based gabber

14101021:ShadowXVX said:
The fact that you think veganism has any affect whatsoever on D or B12 deficiency goes to show that you know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about. B12 comes from microbes and is naturally found in soil. Due to modern intensive cleaning of our food (which I am all for, by the way), B12 doesn't naturally occur in adequate quantities in our diets unless it is fortified or suplemented. This goes for animal and plant based foods. The only reason that B12 is found in some animal products is because the animals are fed grain/etc that is fortified with B12. Whether you are eating animal products containing B12, plant-based milk containing B12, multivitamins, etc, no matter what, you are getting synthetic and/or fortified/suplemented B12.

You clearly are more interested in defending yourself and making up false arguments (i.e. "being vegan makes it hard to get B12", to paraphrase) so I'm not interested in continuing this discussion with you.
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Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

"making up false arguments (i.e. "being vegan makes it hard to get B12")"

You do realize that is 100% factual, do you not?

B12 absolutely, 100%, is naturally occurring in animals and is absolutely NOT there because "because the animals are fed grain/etc that is fortified with B12", as you said.

"Vitamin B12 is naturally found in animal products, including fish, meat, poultry, eggs, milk, and milk products."

"Vitamin B12 is generally not present in plant foods"
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/

"Vegans should receive a mandatory vitamin B12 substitution because of an important risk of deficiency"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31617971

A healthy omnivorous dies does not need B12 supplements. Any vegan diet absolutely does.

You're totally out to lunch dude.
 
No xgames stream for big air without paying for ESPN AND some vegan is making shit up. What's new I guess.
 
14101057:VinnieF said:
Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

"making up false arguments (i.e. "being vegan makes it hard to get B12")"

You do realize that is 100% factual, do you not?

B12 absolutely, 100%, is naturally occurring in animals and is absolutely NOT there because "because the animals are fed grain/etc that is fortified with B12", as you said.

"Vitamin B12 is naturally found in animal products, including fish, meat, poultry, eggs, milk, and milk products."

"Vitamin B12 is generally not present in plant foods"
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/

"Vegans should receive a mandatory vitamin B12 substitution because of an important risk of deficiency"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31617971

A healthy omnivorous dies does not need B12 supplements. Any vegan diet absolutely does.

You're totally out to lunch dude.
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You’re basing your entire argument against an an environmentally friendly diet choice on this one B12 excuse. You say it’s hard to get... yet I already mentioned it’s fortified in plenty of foods, as are other modern nutrients of concern. Even if not for those... how difficult it is to pop a little raspberry flavored tablet in your mouth every week?

It’s a red herring... If you don’t care about the environmental impact of meat, that’s all you. Don’t go digging for other reasons to invalidate a diet that is continually backed by peer-reviewed research as nutritionally adequate and more sustainable than the average diet.

**This post was edited on Jan 24th 2020 at 11:09:42pm
 
14100991:DylanGBanks said:
I’m on board with anything that helps the environment, and some of this new fake meat stuff is actually pretty tasty. BUT, it’s always packaged in a thick plastic tray with cellophane and then a laminated paper sleeve around it. Doesn’t seem very environmentally friendly.
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Agreed, plastic packaging is shitty. But if someone is stopping at Safeway and decides to pick a plant based burger vs a beef burger in the same packaging, I see it as a win. Still looking to eliminate plastic use as much as I get the chance, especially after I get out of the dorm.
 
14101066:fries said:
You’re basing your entire argument against an an environmentally friendly diet choice on this one B12 excuse. You say it’s hard to get... yet I already mentioned it’s fortified in plenty of foods, as are other modern nutrients of concern. Even if not for those... how difficult it is to pop a little raspberry flavored tablet in your mouth every week?

It’s a red herring... If you don’t care about the environmental impact of meat, that’s all you. Don’t go digging for other reasons to invalidate a diet that is continually backed by peer-reviewed research as nutritionally adequate and more sustainable than the average diet.

**This post was edited on Jan 24th 2020 at 11:09:42pm
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Not even close to my point. 'an entire argument on B12'. I guess you didn't read anything I wrote? I am in no way trying to say a vegan diet cannot be a healthy alternative or cannot be environmentally better. You somehow misinterpret every one of my posts as being anti-vegan rather than them trying to discredit that dude who keeps spouting a constant stream of BS about eating meat.

I fully agree; a vegan diet can be more environmentally friendly than a diet that includes meat, and a vegan diet can absolutely be just as healthy given adequate planning. However, this does not mean an omnivorous diet is the worst thing for the planet, as a properly planned omnivorous diet can vastly improve an individuals environmental footprint and can likely even outpace a poorly planned vegan diet. Additionally, just because someone eats meat does not mean their footprint is any greater than your own (as someone who does not) as they may be choosing to reduce their footprint in ways that don't involve large dietary changes.

I'll leave you with his best, totally made up and factually incorrect quotes (which for some reason you see my responses to as attacks on veganism, they're not, they're attacks on ignorance (stupidity?)):

"animal agriculture is the biggest cause of climate change"

"that doesn't mean that an omnivorous diet is ideal for humans, it just means that we're capable of surviving on it. We're still better off as herbivores" (in the context of human health)

"The only reason that B12 is found in some animal products is because the animals are fed grain/etc that is fortified with B12"
 
14101057:VinnieF said:
Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

"making up false arguments (i.e. "being vegan makes it hard to get B12")"

You do realize that is 100% factual, do you not?

B12 absolutely, 100%, is naturally occurring in animals and is absolutely NOT there because "because the animals are fed grain/etc that is fortified with B12", as you said.

"Vitamin B12 is naturally found in animal products, including fish, meat, poultry, eggs, milk, and milk products."

"Vitamin B12 is generally not present in plant foods"
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/

"Vegans should receive a mandatory vitamin B12 substitution because of an important risk of deficiency"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31617971

A healthy omnivorous dies does not need B12 supplements. Any vegan diet absolutely does.

You're totally out to lunch dude.
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B12 is produced by microbes. B12 is not produced by animals or plants. Is there ANY naturally in animal products? Sure. There's some from soil residue on the plants eaten by the animals, and some animals' bodies (including human bodies) contain bacteria that produce B12. That doesn't generally provide enough for human nutritional needs. As such, animals raised for meat are given grain fortified with B12, injected with B12, etc so that said B12 can be passed onto humans. Likewise, some plant foods are fortified with B12. Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Stop wasting people's time posting partial facts in attempt to defend your positions.
 
14101098:ShadowXVX said:
B12 is produced by microbes. B12 is not produced by animals or plants. Is there ANY naturally in animal products? Sure. There's some from soil residue on the plants eaten by the animals, and some animals' bodies (including human bodies) contain bacteria that produce B12. That doesn't generally provide enough for human nutritional needs. As such, animals raised for meat are given grain fortified with B12, injected with B12, etc so that said B12 can be passed onto humans. Likewise, some plant foods are fortified with B12. Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Stop wasting people's time posting partial facts in attempt to defend your positions.
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It's so so hard to not post again when you read something just so so wrong. Not happening again after this..

You can absolutely get sufficient B12 from eating animals that have NOT been fed a fortified diet. Fortified diets are fed to animals that otherwise aren't getting the nutrients required for B12 production in their guts or aren't getting enough B12 in what they're eating (ie. mostly factory farmed animals). Given the right diet (for example pasture raised animals), ruminants like cows absolutely produce enough B12 that they do not need it to be added to their diet. Other animals like chickens also have sufficient amounts if they have a more natural diet that includes foraging for insects.

Know what else is naturally super high in B12? Seafood. You think someone's going around injecting sardines with B12?

You are wrong. Animals have enough naturally occurring B12 that a balanced omnivorous diet will not be deficient, unless you eat factory farmed animals.

Stop getting your 'facts' from vegan blogs.
 
14101185:VinnieF said:
It's so so hard to not post again when you read something just so so wrong. Not happening again after this..

You can absolutely get sufficient B12 from eating animals that have NOT been fed a fortified diet. Fortified diets are fed to animals that otherwise aren't getting the nutrients required for B12 production in their guts or aren't getting enough B12 in what they're eating (ie. mostly factory farmed animals). Given the right diet (for example pasture raised animals), ruminants like cows absolutely produce enough B12 that they do not need it to be added to their diet. Other animals like chickens also have sufficient amounts if they have a more natural diet that includes foraging for insects.

Know what else is naturally super high in B12? Seafood. You think someone's going around injecting sardines with B12?

You are wrong. Animals have enough naturally occurring B12 that a balanced omnivorous diet will not be deficient, unless you eat factory farmed animals.

Stop getting your 'facts' from vegan blogs.
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Those animals running around in nature are eating things that have soil residue on them. Kinda like humans used to get their B12 a very long time ago. Meaning humans, like nonhumans, can get adequate B12 from our natural diets (in humans' case, herbivorous diets) in nature, but not so easily with modern cleaning methods etc. So thanks for proving my point :)
 
I've found it pretty easy to be a vegetarian myself, the climate change thing is not part of my rationale. My philosophy on environmental protection and what-not is that if vegetarianism is the 'evolved perspective' it will prevail somehow and the trickle down might have a positive environmental impact - but either or, I am still unconcerned.
 
14101057:VinnieF said:
Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

"making up false arguments (i.e. "being vegan makes it hard to get B12")"

You do realize that is 100% factual, do you not?

B12 absolutely, 100%, is naturally occurring in animals and is absolutely NOT there because "because the animals are fed grain/etc that is fortified with B12", as you said.

"Vitamin B12 is naturally found in animal products, including fish, meat, poultry, eggs, milk, and milk products."

"Vitamin B12 is generally not present in plant foods"
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/

"Vegans should receive a mandatory vitamin B12 substitution because of an important risk of deficiency"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31617971

A healthy omnivorous dies does not need B12 supplements. Any vegan diet absolutely does.

You're totally out to lunch dude.
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there are so many studies that suggest this is wrong. the impact of transportation of food is much much less than the production of it.

14100460:corona said:
I really dislike and disagree with the notion that eating meat is environmentally bad. What is far more important than your dietary choices is where you source your food from. Eating locally and sustainably should be the number one priority. A vegan who buys avocados from Mexico and soy product from the Amazon and quinoa from Peru is absolutely no better (and probably far worse) for the environment than someone who goes and hunts from a healthy forest ecosystem in their backyard or catches fish from the local lake. The focus should 100% be on where your food is sourced, not on what the food is.

It would be interesting to see a comparison in the ecological footprints for the diets of two people from a North American city: one who is a vegan and buys all their food at the supermarket and eats a 'typical' vegan diet, and another who eats a balanced diet that includes meat and buys all their food from local and sustainable sources.
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My wife and I went plant based last April. We were already mostly pescatarian/vegetarian so it wasn’t too difficult of a transition. Recently we’ve eaten cheese again but only on rare occasions and typically not at home.

I have done it mostly for long term health. Read How Not to Die by Dr. Michael Greger if you want research backed, sourced information on the benefits of a plant based diet. NutritionFacts.org is his website where he freely shares the most up to date literature on healthful eating. The environmental impact is just a bonus to me. We started supporting a CSA, growing our own herbs, and eliminating paper towels/other disposables.

959121.jpeg
 
I've been vegan for 10 years. Being vegan these days is incredibly easy. It is clearly the most environmentally friendly way to eat. It is also clearly the best way to eat in terms of reducing animal suffering. It has also not impacted my health in any negative way. If you eat healthy food (vegan or not) you will be healthy. I don't take supplements because most vegan meat/milk is fortified anyways.
 
14120574:chicken said:
I've been vegan for 10 years. Being vegan these days is incredibly easy. It is clearly the most environmentally friendly way to eat.
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BULL. SHIT.

Also, aren't you that vegan who hunted/hunts? I immediately know you're full of shit, and not just plant-based shit.
 
i don't hunt. haven't eaten meat since spring of 2011. so i guess 9 years sorry. and it is. go fuck yourself.

14120638:iFlip said:
BULL. SHIT.

Also, aren't you that vegan who hunted/hunts? I immediately know you're full of shit, and not just plant-based shit.
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**This post was edited on Mar 29th 2020 at 3:02:36pm
 
14120658:chicken said:
i don't hunt. haven't eaten meat since spring of 2021. so i guess 9 years sorry. and it is. go fuck yourself.
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Pretty much 100% certain I remember you talking about your hunting exploits a number of years ago.

Haven't eaten meat since next year, eh? Careful, I think the plants are destroying your brain cells. Better eat some meat and perhaps you'll be more coherent.
 
14120512:Bdoobz said:
Let's get some peer reviewed articles in here. None of these Netflix vegan propaganda "meat bad" stats.
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Sure, I have these two easily accessible so I'll link 'em. Not sure what specifically you want an article about but I'll try my best to get you something appropriate!
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212267216311923
https://www-sciencedirect-com.proxybz.lib.montana.edu:3443/science/article/pii/S155083071730397X

edit... disregard... studies won't open up unless you're a member of the university. Let me know what specifically you're skeptical about and I'll grab you a link. If you're doubtful about my claim in the OP, I provided the exact link to the peer-reviewed study that it came from.

**This post was edited on Mar 22nd 2020 at 8:59:52pm
 
14121037:T.L. said:
That was the joke lol. It was out in China then.
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Yeah I remember, it's just gotten so much worse sense then so seeing that post takes me back to when 'rona wasn't such a threat to all that is good in the world.
 
14101029:T.L. said:
Sorry, but if you're not eating bat soup and caterpillars for every meal you're an uncultured swine.
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LOL now a bunch of Americans gonna die because of a meat market. meat causes basically all these pandemics.
 
14123450:chicken said:
LOL now a bunch of Americans gonna die because of a meat market. meat causes basically all these pandemics.
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To those who downvoted this post and will continue:

According to the CDC, 3 out of every 4 new or emerging infectious diseases come from animals. FAO has also stated that an increasing demand for animal protein is one of the main risk factors of a pandemic.

Here it is, explained more eloquently than I am capable of, with direct quotations from the mentioned sources.

 
14123560:fries said:
To those who downvoted this post and will continue:

According to the CDC, 3 out of every 4 new or emerging infectious diseases come from animals. FAO has also stated that an increasing demand for animal protein is one of the main risk factors of a pandemic.

Here it is, explained more eloquently than I am capable of, with direct quotations from the mentioned sources.

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Definitely not wrong. I saw a POV video of a guy walking through an Indonesian meat market similar to the one that we suspect Covid originated from in Wuhan. It was really disturbing, not gonna post it here because they had dogs in crates / killed / cooking. But imagine a cramped open air market in the summer, meat stands set up shoulder to shoulder while hundreds of people mill around. There's blood on every surface, feces, raw meat sitting out in the baking sun. Live animals getting killed and then sold all within the same space. I know that culture plays a big part but it's honestly outrageous and no surprise that these places just fester viruses and disease.
 
14123715:Willgum said:
Definitely not wrong. I saw a POV video of a guy walking through an Indonesian meat market similar to the one that we suspect Covid originated from in Wuhan. It was really disturbing, not gonna post it here because they had dogs in crates / killed / cooking. But imagine a cramped open air market in the summer, meat stands set up shoulder to shoulder while hundreds of people mill around. There's blood on every surface, feces, raw meat sitting out in the baking sun. Live animals getting killed and then sold all within the same space. I know that culture plays a big part but it's honestly outrageous and no surprise that these places just fester viruses and disease.
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Western farms and slaughterhouses are the same, aside from not being open to the public.
 
14123715:Willgum said:
Definitely not wrong. I saw a POV video of a guy walking through an Indonesian meat market similar to the one that we suspect Covid originated from in Wuhan. It was really disturbing, not gonna post it here because they had dogs in crates / killed / cooking. But imagine a cramped open air market in the summer, meat stands set up shoulder to shoulder while hundreds of people mill around. There's blood on every surface, feces, raw meat sitting out in the baking sun. Live animals getting killed and then sold all within the same space. I know that culture plays a big part but it's honestly outrageous and no surprise that these places just fester viruses and
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I watched a show on the tv about 11 years ago about Northern North Korea, i can't remember what it was about but they had human arms and body parts for sale in this very crude outdoor market, it was a very disturbing show to watch seeing how poor and desperate the people were ti stoop to such measures resorting ti catabolism and stuff.
 
Any tips for tastiness? Trying to eat less meat and drop some weight. Not going to lie I am missing my beer, culvers and pizza.
 
14161768:Lonely said:
Any tips for tastiness? Trying to eat less meat and drop some weight. Not going to lie I am missing my beer, culvers and pizza.
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Coffee and intermittent fasting
 
14161768:Lonely said:
Any tips for tastiness? Trying to eat less meat and drop some weight. Not going to lie I am missing my beer, culvers and pizza.
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Drink only water and coffee, don't drink your calories. Also calorie count literally everything.
 
14161827:RudyGarmisch said:
Coffee and intermittent fasting
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This.

14161835:CLQ said:
Drink only water and coffee, don't drink your calories. Also calorie count literally everything.
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Meh counting calories doesn’t work for everyone. Some people never count and lose weight, some count religiously and don’t. I’d say make sure you are hitting you lean weight in protein (calculate your body fat) and eat in a deficit. Passive exercise is also very beneficial (10,000 steps a day, hikes, swimming, etc.)

As for a vegan lifestyle, no thanks. Whether it be environmental, moral, or health reasons I find flaws in the philosophy. That being said my step mom and dad are pescatarians and the vegan food they cook is delicious.
 
"One common fallacy is that humans are by nature not meat eaters – it is claimed that we do not have the jaw and teeth structure of carnivores.

It is true that humans are not designed to eat raw meat, but that is because our jaws have evolved to eat cooked meat, which is considerably softer and much easier to chew.

And there is evidence that humans have been cooking meat for at least 450,000 years, probably even longer – a sign is the overbite in human teeth (our upper teeth are slightly in front of our lower teeth in the jaw), which indicates the preponderance of soft cooked meats in the diet."
 
14161768:Lonely said:
Any tips for tastiness? Trying to eat less meat and drop some weight. Not going to lie I am missing my beer, culvers and pizza.
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Are you referring to tofu since you mentioned that in your last post? I don't season my tofu, I just cook it. I like putting it in tortillas with rice and bell peppers, or on pizza.

If you want recipes there's lots of good recipes at vegweb.com and you could also check out vegan22.com where you can get a (free) personal mentor who will help with any nutrition/recipe/etc questions you need help with.
 
14163385:ShadowXVX said:
Are you referring to tofu since you mentioned that in your last post? I don't season my tofu, I just cook it. I like putting it in tortillas with rice and bell peppers, or on pizza.

If you want recipes there's lots of good recipes at vegweb.com and you could also check out vegan22.com where you can get a (free) personal mentor who will help with any nutrition/recipe/etc questions you need help with.
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I was. I've actually had some decent success. Just pressing it and then marinating it with homemade sauce with a quick pan fry afterwards seems to produce some pretty good results.
 
14163450:Lonely said:
I was. I've actually had some decent success. Just pressing it and then marinating it with homemade sauce with a quick pan fry afterwards seems to produce some pretty good results.
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Protip: Get the kind of tofu that comes in clear soft plastic package, it's firmer and better than the kind that comes in hard white plastic. (this is true across all brands) No need to press it. I like slicing it up and baking it on a pizza stone.
 
Personally, I dont hold myself too strictly to vegan or plant based. I try when I can, but when it comes to environmental impact, eating meat from your local rancher who treats his livestock well, and lets them graze and feed, restoring the land and keeping it heathy has a much better env. impact than just eating mass produced vegan junk food from pesticide riddled farms, that shit destroys the land just as much as large scale livestock ops, so bad for animals and people too when it gets into the groundwater. Healthy soil is absolutely essential for carbon sequestration too, I recently watched Kiss The Ground on Netflix and highly recommend it for anybody in this thread
 
14220607:Poindexter. said:
The problem with these threads is it always comes back to something about your local rancher being a good steward to the land BUT the vaaaaast vast vast vast VAST majority of meat consumed is not this kind of meat it's the factory farmed bs
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Facts, the food industry is so fucked to the point where you're pretty damn lucky if you have good local organic agriculture
 
14220611:CrunnchyVanMan said:
Facts, the food industry is so fucked to the point where you're pretty damn lucky if you have good local organic agriculture
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Thankful my state has a good “local food” culture. I used to work for a butcher that slaughtered on site. First mobile slaughter unit in NE I believe.
 
14220607:Poindexter. said:
The problem with these threads is it always comes back to something about your local rancher being a good steward to the land BUT the vaaaaast vast vast vast VAST majority of meat consumed is not this kind of meat it's the factory farmed bs
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The vast majority of vegan options are monocrop factory farm bs. Hopefully we see this change in the future for both veggies and meat, but it's not going to happen until prices can match the BS ways or fucking up the land or relying on chemicals is penalized.
 
Went vegetarian around 6 months ago after noticing I was getting sick after every time I ate red meat. Started to introduce fish again lately and it’s been going well. Body feels damn good though and lost about 15 pounds.
 
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