ben28johnson
Member
This may or may not be an unpopular opinion but I like skiing alone.. the peace and quite is nice and I can ski at my own pace
Unpopular opinion thread skier's edition
- Thread starter 270on420out
- Start date
AndrewGravesSV
Active member
I actually think the supreme/skate influence in skiing is pretty sick.
Is it popular to like The Bunch or to hate on it.
Ski mountaineering is way more badass than park.
Is it popular to like The Bunch or to hate on it.
Ski mountaineering is way more badass than park.
chicknfriedsteak
Member
13866316:CalCarson said:
fuck you dude, Hanka is the shit. Thank god there are so many pros out there these days so we can be picky about who we like to watch
BagOTricks
Member
13866952:sdrvper said:
I thought he was implying landing sideways takes more edge control, which I didn't agree with. And even if it does take some amount of edge control, making a trick look ugly is a weird way of showing off your edge skill.
AndrewGravesSV
Active member
13867054:TheBagOTricks said:
I think there is a huge difference between snappy shuffles and just landing sideways and washing out and around. For me, the difference is speed of it because you can tell when someone just didn't have the rotation and will shuffle at the same speed. If you either speed up on the ground and keep it snappy and smooth or shuffle the opposite way of your momentum that's impressive to me
benyannelli
Member
Magnus/ The Bunch ruined the sport
TheSmokinL
Member
People who worry too much about their equipment. Anything including top sheet scratches from gapers in lift lines to a pucker or lift at the tip or tail of your board/skis from hitting rails or dropping it in the parking lot. Kids and adults walk into ski shops with some of the most ridiculous “I broke it” stories that end in only needing a bit of apoxy or someone to tell them “it’s normal wear and tear” to make them get over it.
sharhodes
Member
13866391:john18061806 said:
Well they fix damage for free to the best of their ability as long as you send the skis back. Heck, even call the shop and they can probably help you to fix it yourself. Have you contacted them yet? They detune this years magnus pretty well, but you have last years and I'm pretty positive they didn't come with a park detune. What did you use to detune?
Just watched an insta clip with this. The whole early off and hop back onto a rail shit is dumb. Especially on kinked rails. Its like they can't slide through a dfd so they hop off before the flat and back on at the down. I know that's normally not the case but that's how it looks and it's retarded.
skiitsbetter
Member
skiing is a way for middle class people to make others think they are rich, just like eating at fancy restaurants. Go once, take the selfie (or food plate picture) and post to social media. It's what's keeping the industry alive.
_Garagely_
Active member
The gucciman7 edits are fresh and bring something new to the table
TrickyDick470
Member
Maybe not unpopular in skiing in general, but this is definitely unpopular on the site.
Yellow jackets / safety patrol at Vail Resorts aren't bad (but they aren't good either). Just slow TF down for like 50 yards and you won't get your pass pulled. If you want to go fast there are lots of other places on the mountain to do that.
Or don't get a Vail Resorts pass if you have the option like I did.
Yellow jackets / safety patrol at Vail Resorts aren't bad (but they aren't good either). Just slow TF down for like 50 yards and you won't get your pass pulled. If you want to go fast there are lots of other places on the mountain to do that.
Or don't get a Vail Resorts pass if you have the option like I did.
BrokeAssUniSkier
New member
13867312:TrickyDick470 said:
I know a bunch of the yellow jackets and they don't care unless you are being stupid and flying right past them in a crowded area.
hot.pocket
Active member
95% of so-called nose butter 270's onto rails aren't nose butters, just someone spinning on the ground before hopping onto a rail.
People that do backflip japan and call it flat 3.
I know NS well, so let's just get the TLDR out of the way. Now...
Hey John - sorry to hear about the damage.
Lots of posts here to process, but to start in the theme of the thread, here is my unpopular opinion: If you are getting 9 edge cracks in 15 days, maybe it is you, not the skis.
THAT said, still early and we'd be happy to help make sure your skis last a lot longer than January. Even with 9 edge cracks, possible to still get a lot of life out of those skis (depending on how much water damage has happened).
I see you mention that they are detuned & when you can just fix them yourself with JB Weld. First, if you want em to last, you know well that fixing them while the issues are minor are the key to longevity in park skis, so I hope you are doing that (but have a better option below). Skiing on them without fixing them is just asking for them to die a fast death. The #1 enemy of park skis is water - keeping water out and thus preventing the freeze/thaw cycle from breaking down the epoxy and damaging the ski is bigger than pretty much anything else when it comes to park ski life.
Second, please don't use JB Weld. For future fixes, I would highly recommend skipping it and using something like West Systems G-flex. Far more suited to fixes like this.
You did mention you detuned those skis. After trying to educate people on detuning for about 8 years, with little success (working on that bit right now as well - see upcoming Shop Class), we finally this year decided to spend the time to do a middle-intensity factory detune all our Magnus (I see you are on last years), because I can count the number of skis I've seen properly detuned by customers on one hand. You seem to have some idea what you are doing, so I would love to see your skis in person.
So my offer to you is...send me some photos of the skis. If I think there is life left to save...
1) I send you a return box, by FedEx ground. In it - tape, return label, bubble wrap.
2) You...put your skis in the box, wrap em to protect em, throw the return label on the box, and send em back to Portland.
3) I will personally fix them, free of charge. IF I think you actually detuned them right, I will throw in a couple shirts and other swag items for free.
4) I will cover the shipping back.
Worst case, your least durable skis ever make it a bit past January. Best case, your least durable skis ever make it a bit past January, you get my stamp of approval as one of the 5 people in the world that can properly detune skis, and you get some other free shit out of it. Again, asking NOTHING from you but your time boxing your skis and dropping em at a FedEx, and letting me have them at the factory for a few days.
Oh and don't try and detune them after the fact. I will be able to tell
.
We're in season now, so we can work out the details to ensure you are without skis for as short of a time as possible, if you want our help with them.
Let me know what you think. I address some of your other things your posted below.
So let me preface this in that, I am not a metallurgist, but I have talked with more than a few about steel & ski edges. I've brought them into the factory and reached out to others in academia for help. One point on heat. Definitely a factor, but in a bit of a different way.
Generally, it isn't that edges crack from heating up on rails and then crack when they land on snow. It is that that heating and cooling process, over and over, can actually change the crystalline structure of the steel - making it more brittle over time. If you are interested in learning more, look into Continuous Cooling Transformation Diagrams. We deal with this stuff as we heat treat out edges in the tips & tails and let me tell you, it can be lots of fun.
If you want to get your own research going, as the lazy chumps in the ski industry aren't getting it done, here is a good starting point - the chemical composition and mechanical properties of the steel used pretty much industry wide. That said, the ski industry is using the most durable material we have access to. So let's talk about access...
First, suppliers - of which in the entire ski world, there are two. Yes. Two ski edge suppliers. In the world. So, even if we hired the best metallurgist in the world, it doesn't mean shit unless we can get production volumes of edges, at a high and consistent quality, and a practical cost.
So, now lets talk about those companies. Both based in Europe - one called Metall Deutsch, other called CDW aka C.D. Walzholz International. As we work direct with them, let's discuss CDW - who supplies pretty much all North American made skis (along with tons of other companies world wide). We buy the thickest edge we can from them, a 2.5mm x 2.5mm edge. It is literally the thickest we can buy. Now - we talked to them about getting a custom profile made - even wider and thicker than we use now - and just to get that in the current metal used on all ski edges, we would have to commit to literally years worth of material, on a 4-5 month lead time, on the spot. Outside the development cost, that profile would only be limited to use for a couple of years before being opened to the public. No complaining from us here either - I get the realities of business and the economies of scale here just don't line up.
Furthermore, asking these guys to allow us to tweak the chemical composition of the edges would be beyond laughable. Why? Because skiing is tiny and park skiing even smaller. Unless you could find a tiny metal manufacturing facility to take this one (mind you, again, there are only two MASSIVE companies building ski edges), this wouldn't be possible. Best bet would be to get every ski company in the world in lockstep with a solution in hand. Outside of that, steel ski edges are here to stay for quite awhile.
I have our Production Manager and Materials Manager visit the US facilities for all our raw material suppliers. It helps us understand their process, develop personal relationships with their manufacturing & sales team, and gives us prospective on their business. For CDW, the ski edge department is just a tiny corner of their large facility. CDW's other customers? Ford. General Motors. Chevy. Aka big business.
Park skis edges, from a true infrastructure perspective, are almost a non-factor. We're lucky we can even get wide edges in the US.
Do I wish there were other options for park skiers? 100%. There are ways to mitigate (detune/fix) or avoid (see prototype convex Magnus we are testing) edge damage, but at the end of the day, you are slamming hundred of lbs of force under heat and pressure on metal bars and doing so over and over and over and then are surprised when the metal eventually fails...
Ski companies are doing what we can. We believe we make the most durable park ski in the world, your personal experience aside. We've built a reputation out of a literal garage off that durability. If that makes us lazy chumps, so be it, but there really are smart people trying to find solutions for your skis, whether you believe it or not.
Just some general rules of thumb on skis.
1) Detune, properly. I know you all say you do it. You don't, at least properly.
2) Fix cracks w/ clamp + 2 part epoxy when they form. Cracks are ok. Water is not. Keep the water out.
3) Swap skis. We see lots of skis with 3 perfect edges, 1 destroyed edge.
4) Slide both ways. Same deal.
5) Learn to land & ride flat on rails. The guys I see landing hard and riding at an angle put all the pressure on the edge. Let the base help with the impact.
Hope that helps shed some insight into edges & the ski industry.
John, hit me up directly. I do really want to help you with your skis.
Planned obsolescence works in the tech industry, but not the ski industry, and I can promise you, it isn't something we can build into skis.
We've worked hard to build skis worth jizzing over. And as much as some on NS want to shit on that, all that jizzing is there for a reason.
Yep - something we looked into but until that patent is free...not sure what will happen. Maybe Armada/Amer will swing back around because some interesting stuff in there. We were pretty bummed after a prototype meeting to find that yep...already patented.
Probably the most important post in the thread. If you treat your skis like tools that require maintenance, especially park skis, they will treat you well in kind.
Obviously it sucks to see John's experience, but if that was the norm and not the exception, we would be out of business.
John - lots of texts in here. If you want help with your skis, just let us know! Happy to get us much life out of them as we can. Thanks!
Edit - definitely some spelling errors. Will edit as I find them.
**This post was edited on Dec 12th 2017 at 11:12:49pm
13866391:john18061806 said:
Hey John - sorry to hear about the damage.
Lots of posts here to process, but to start in the theme of the thread, here is my unpopular opinion: If you are getting 9 edge cracks in 15 days, maybe it is you, not the skis.
THAT said, still early and we'd be happy to help make sure your skis last a lot longer than January. Even with 9 edge cracks, possible to still get a lot of life out of those skis (depending on how much water damage has happened).
I see you mention that they are detuned & when you can just fix them yourself with JB Weld. First, if you want em to last, you know well that fixing them while the issues are minor are the key to longevity in park skis, so I hope you are doing that (but have a better option below). Skiing on them without fixing them is just asking for them to die a fast death. The #1 enemy of park skis is water - keeping water out and thus preventing the freeze/thaw cycle from breaking down the epoxy and damaging the ski is bigger than pretty much anything else when it comes to park ski life.
Second, please don't use JB Weld. For future fixes, I would highly recommend skipping it and using something like West Systems G-flex. Far more suited to fixes like this.
You did mention you detuned those skis. After trying to educate people on detuning for about 8 years, with little success (working on that bit right now as well - see upcoming Shop Class), we finally this year decided to spend the time to do a middle-intensity factory detune all our Magnus (I see you are on last years), because I can count the number of skis I've seen properly detuned by customers on one hand. You seem to have some idea what you are doing, so I would love to see your skis in person.
So my offer to you is...send me some photos of the skis. If I think there is life left to save...
1) I send you a return box, by FedEx ground. In it - tape, return label, bubble wrap.
2) You...put your skis in the box, wrap em to protect em, throw the return label on the box, and send em back to Portland.
3) I will personally fix them, free of charge. IF I think you actually detuned them right, I will throw in a couple shirts and other swag items for free.
4) I will cover the shipping back.
Worst case, your least durable skis ever make it a bit past January. Best case, your least durable skis ever make it a bit past January, you get my stamp of approval as one of the 5 people in the world that can properly detune skis, and you get some other free shit out of it. Again, asking NOTHING from you but your time boxing your skis and dropping em at a FedEx, and letting me have them at the factory for a few days.
Oh and don't try and detune them after the fact. I will be able to tell
.We're in season now, so we can work out the details to ensure you are without skis for as short of a time as possible, if you want our help with them.
Let me know what you think. I address some of your other things your posted below.
13866495:john18061806 said:
So let me preface this in that, I am not a metallurgist, but I have talked with more than a few about steel & ski edges. I've brought them into the factory and reached out to others in academia for help. One point on heat. Definitely a factor, but in a bit of a different way.
Generally, it isn't that edges crack from heating up on rails and then crack when they land on snow. It is that that heating and cooling process, over and over, can actually change the crystalline structure of the steel - making it more brittle over time. If you are interested in learning more, look into Continuous Cooling Transformation Diagrams. We deal with this stuff as we heat treat out edges in the tips & tails and let me tell you, it can be lots of fun.
If you want to get your own research going, as the lazy chumps in the ski industry aren't getting it done, here is a good starting point - the chemical composition and mechanical properties of the steel used pretty much industry wide. That said, the ski industry is using the most durable material we have access to. So let's talk about access...
First, suppliers - of which in the entire ski world, there are two. Yes. Two ski edge suppliers. In the world. So, even if we hired the best metallurgist in the world, it doesn't mean shit unless we can get production volumes of edges, at a high and consistent quality, and a practical cost.
So, now lets talk about those companies. Both based in Europe - one called Metall Deutsch, other called CDW aka C.D. Walzholz International. As we work direct with them, let's discuss CDW - who supplies pretty much all North American made skis (along with tons of other companies world wide). We buy the thickest edge we can from them, a 2.5mm x 2.5mm edge. It is literally the thickest we can buy. Now - we talked to them about getting a custom profile made - even wider and thicker than we use now - and just to get that in the current metal used on all ski edges, we would have to commit to literally years worth of material, on a 4-5 month lead time, on the spot. Outside the development cost, that profile would only be limited to use for a couple of years before being opened to the public. No complaining from us here either - I get the realities of business and the economies of scale here just don't line up.
Furthermore, asking these guys to allow us to tweak the chemical composition of the edges would be beyond laughable. Why? Because skiing is tiny and park skiing even smaller. Unless you could find a tiny metal manufacturing facility to take this one (mind you, again, there are only two MASSIVE companies building ski edges), this wouldn't be possible. Best bet would be to get every ski company in the world in lockstep with a solution in hand. Outside of that, steel ski edges are here to stay for quite awhile.
I have our Production Manager and Materials Manager visit the US facilities for all our raw material suppliers. It helps us understand their process, develop personal relationships with their manufacturing & sales team, and gives us prospective on their business. For CDW, the ski edge department is just a tiny corner of their large facility. CDW's other customers? Ford. General Motors. Chevy. Aka big business.
Park skis edges, from a true infrastructure perspective, are almost a non-factor. We're lucky we can even get wide edges in the US.
Do I wish there were other options for park skiers? 100%. There are ways to mitigate (detune/fix) or avoid (see prototype convex Magnus we are testing) edge damage, but at the end of the day, you are slamming hundred of lbs of force under heat and pressure on metal bars and doing so over and over and over and then are surprised when the metal eventually fails...
Ski companies are doing what we can. We believe we make the most durable park ski in the world, your personal experience aside. We've built a reputation out of a literal garage off that durability. If that makes us lazy chumps, so be it, but there really are smart people trying to find solutions for your skis, whether you believe it or not.
Just some general rules of thumb on skis.
1) Detune, properly. I know you all say you do it. You don't, at least properly.
2) Fix cracks w/ clamp + 2 part epoxy when they form. Cracks are ok. Water is not. Keep the water out.
3) Swap skis. We see lots of skis with 3 perfect edges, 1 destroyed edge.
4) Slide both ways. Same deal.
5) Learn to land & ride flat on rails. The guys I see landing hard and riding at an angle put all the pressure on the edge. Let the base help with the impact.
Hope that helps shed some insight into edges & the ski industry.
John, hit me up directly. I do really want to help you with your skis.
13866501:john18061806 said:
Planned obsolescence works in the tech industry, but not the ski industry, and I can promise you, it isn't something we can build into skis.
13866504:john18061806 said:
We've worked hard to build skis worth jizzing over. And as much as some on NS want to shit on that, all that jizzing is there for a reason.
13866530:a_burger said:
Yep - something we looked into but until that patent is free...not sure what will happen. Maybe Armada/Amer will swing back around because some interesting stuff in there. We were pretty bummed after a prototype meeting to find that yep...already patented.
13866569:.lencon said:
Probably the most important post in the thread. If you treat your skis like tools that require maintenance, especially park skis, they will treat you well in kind.
13866627:cool_name said:
Obviously it sucks to see John's experience, but if that was the norm and not the exception, we would be out of business.
John - lots of texts in here. If you want help with your skis, just let us know! Happy to get us much life out of them as we can. Thanks!
Edit - definitely some spelling errors. Will edit as I find them.
**This post was edited on Dec 12th 2017 at 11:12:49pm
Non_State_Actor
Active member
I hate how many helpful reps/owners/associates of various core companies come on here and try to rep their brand and/or personally help people out who may have an problem or issue with their product.
*this is of course the opposite of how I feel but we are in the unpopular opinion thread after all.
*this is of course the opposite of how I feel but we are in the unpopular opinion thread after all.
270on420out
Active member
Oh another one:
ALL boxes are fucking lame
ALL boxes are fucking lame
mr-mcsteeze
Member
I wanna see Tom Wallisch come back to comp skiing and go to the olympics.
AndrewGravesSV
Active member
I wish there was more rollerblading influence in skiing. It makes skiing more unique and isn't a derivative of snowboarding. Khai Kreppela, Dan Hanka, and Kaya Turski are all good examples of this
Melbourne.
Member
13866760:Westcoastsend said:
I agree heavily, if you do not have a good skiing base it shows in your style
mulchbrain
Member
Most graphics on skis look garbage
1spliff2guinnies
Member
13867023:mr-mcsteeze said:
Depends if you are lazy or not when you store them. I stand by Full tilts.
mr-mcsteeze
Member
13867946:GRaboneSnow said:
The last 3 seasons i skied 2 of them on 3 different pairs of full tilts and 1 pair of dalbellos. the fult tilt's boot sole wore out so fast they wouldnt release from my bindings correctly which is why i switched dalbello and wont look back. The plastic bases on full tilts are made from so pretty low quality plastic
1spliff2guinnies
Member
13867950:mr-mcsteeze said:
Ever heard of Cat-Tracks? I've got a pair of Head projects made of super tough plastic where the sole has been eaten through from walking without Cat-Tracks. Maybe spend the 2 bucks at a re-use-it centre for a pair?
The occasional Jerry in the park isn't so bad because it might actually spark a legitimate interest in the sport. Also everyone here was "that guy" at some point. I've been snaked by a guy who just wants to slowly roll over the lip to a rail more than I'd like to mention but the fact they want to jib something, no matter how small, should be encouraged.
DanielHanka
Member
Rollerblading is fuck*ng awesome!!!! And also, it is good for your skiing!
SofaKingSick
Active member
13868067:BenWhit said:
bleh, worrying about wearing your boots in the parking lot sounds annoying as hell. my 11 year old boots have been walked over way too much pavement and they still work just fine. idk if that's because ive lucked out or a difference in materials but damn
mr-mcsteeze
Member
13868070:SofaKingSick said:
plus with the past 2 seasons on the east coast snow was a bit hard to come by
a_burger
Active member
13867946:GRaboneSnow said:
I have 2 friends who bought the descendant style full tilts in the past few weeks. Both have bent or broken the lower buckle in the first 2 days of riding, and one who had the white B&E's somehow blew out both forward adjustment locks on day 1.
This is in addition to another friend who cracked the whole toe off his high 5's, and numerous buckles me and my other roomate have broken on our classic shells
between the 5 of us I'd say full tilts are pretty shit.
BenWhit
Active member
13868070:SofaKingSick said:
yeah, i get that, but if you are constantly wearing through boots (seems you are not) so much so that they don't function properly in a binding, maybe you should consider doing some basic things to preserve the life of them. i mean, we're spending upwards of $600 on boots, might as well try to maximize the useful life of them. personally, I fucking hate walking around in ski boots to I put them on and take them off in the lodge; problem solved. I don't need to freeze my cajones off getting dressed at my car.
SofaKingSick
Active member
13868081:BenWhit said:
i hear that!
mr-mcsteeze
Member
13868081:BenWhit said:
Mate if you are spending more than $400 on boots you are wasting money
mr-mcsteeze
Member
13868092:BenWhit said:
Im using dalbello voodoos now. switching to stiffer boots helped my skiing as well