Town Hall Debate

ya man you got some real issues if you are getting pissed about a political argument over the internet. we have different views why cant you live with that? i mean is this going to turn into some type of religious type battle where since we dont have the same beliefs we are born to hate each other and must battle until death?

i mean you make all this seem like its going to be the end of the world. you wont notice that much of a difference when obama is in office.
 
why because i dont agree with one fucking issue... i dont think its fair to raise taxes on the upper class only. now i was watching the news tonight and they were saying that it will actually raise taxes for not 5% of the population but more like 20% or more. Its one issue, i dont think mccain is a great candidate either i dont think obama is i just happen to like some of mccains ideas more.
 
drew when you told when you were saying you hope i dont wear my seatbelt were you saying you hope i die? thats pretty intense wishing that on someone over a political argument.
 
why do you try and act hard by saying werent you done like a page ago? are you trying to make me mad? lol the shit is funny to me. how is that ignorant to think its not fair to just tax one group of people? tax everyone sure make the percentages a little different not anything drastic but if im helping paying for peoples medical bills other people can help out a little bit u think.
 
so was that.

I find it extraordinarily annoying when people say they can't get a job. So yeah, my response had a "give me a break" tone. I'm sorry just because I'm a female, doesn't mean I have to walk on thin ice to avoid hurting people's feelings. That doesn't make me a bitch, anymore than your name-calling strategies make you a bitch, drew.
 
its not because that just brings us to another think we could talk about. jobs, wages and shit like that. I think that ya maybe people making 20-30k a year arent really going to be able to help that much but the people up in the 50k-70k range could a help a little bit because this tax money for medical stuff in some cases is going to come right back to the people in their class. obviously as the incomes go up people can help more and more but it just in fair in my eyes to only tax one group when more than that could help, maybe not as much but they could still help.
 
ya everyone pays taxes... its not like because u make 30k a year you are exempt from paying taxes. yes the wealthy people make more but why do they have to see the shit end of the deal?
 
how do they see the shit end of the deal? they pay a bigger percentage. something you said was acceptable. make up your mind
 
If you live in this country, and you benefit from the opportunities of being an American, then you have to look at the nation as your family. To keep a roof over the head of a family, people in the family need to work, and pitch in toward providing that roof, as well as other things necessary for survival such as healthcare, food, transportation, etc. In order to pay those bills, different working members of the family pitch in a portion of their wages. Those who make more, can typically pitch in more.

Obviously people have different opinions on this topic, and it's clear that you have a differing opinion from drew and corked7. So there's never going to be a resolution or agreement in this argument.

How far do you take things though? Is money simply to remain with a family in your opinion? What if your parents cut you off at 18, and kicked you to the street. What if they said "this is money that I earned, and you aren't getting any of it, get your own, the only way you can stay here is if you work and pitch in". Well that's what your American family is saying to you, if you want to live under our roof, you pitch in.

If America goes down, you go with it. If you want to be a member of the American family, you contribute.

I understand your point of view, and why you think that everyone should pay exactly the same, but things wouldn't work if that were the case.
 
Oakley, Vans, North Face...please correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not that you can't get a job, it's that you can't get a job you WANT?
 
the explain your exact quote

"I think that ya maybe people making 20-30k a year arent really going to be able to help that much but the people up in the 50k-70k range could a help a little bit because this tax money for medical stuff in some cases is going to come right back to the people in their class"

first of all, our current tax system does EXACTLY that.

second of all. do you really think that people making 50-70k would need socialized health care. chances are, probably not. because if your making that much money you probably are working for a company that provides those benifits, and at 50-70k per year you can pay for your kids. this is just showing how out of touch with all this you are.
 
I didn't say I can't get a job, I said I can't find a job. I can get a job at taco bell. But I do have a level of pride and I have been working my way down from the ambitious to the same job I had 8 years ago, taco bell would be a step down from there, and no, I have not reached that spot yet. When it gets to the point where I will work at Taco Bell out of desperation, I'll become a stripper instead. Not because I feel that I am better than those working at Taco Bell, but because I'ld be taking a job away from someone more desperate than me when I can have rich men give me money to look at my cha chas. But again, I would have to be really desperate for that. In the mean time, I am looking for basically the lowest position that will help me get the position I actually want. I would much rather devote my time to working on websites, building my resume, enjoying my sanity, and finding a worthwhile position than working at minimum wage and taking 8 hours a day away from everything else. Given I do spend a lot of time online, but i call that the enjoying my sanity part.
 
dont take this the wrong way....

but boo hoo...

if you really needed a job you would get the job at "taco hell"

if you really wanted to WORK.....

we all have to start somewhere.....

fuck, i work with a college grad who is making 10$ an hour but he is WORKING, (pay attention to the work part) sure its not the job he plans to do for the rest of his life, but for the time being its bringing in more money that setting on NS is...

again, im trying not to be a "dick" but if you really needed a job, you would take something that you dont like 100%......

try working some shitty jobs also....
 
well I just read on cnn that the taxes of the people in the higher class obama is talking about are going to go up thousands of dollars and possibly even tens of thousands of dollars. thats not really very fair.
 
I hate jumping into these things late, but you fucks start them so early, and I'm busy studying.

I really hate when people say everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed in America. Reality Check... they don't. Depending on the environment in which you are born and raised, your opportunities can greatly differ. Lets take a look...

Person A:

Born into a $500,000 home in the suburbs outside a large city.

Mother is VP of marketing for a corporation

Father is a dentist.

Mother and Father have been married for 30 years.

Attended a Private and Elementary, Middle, and High school with some of the best teachers in the state.

Had a private tutor in high school, and took SAT prep classes.

Was accepted and graduated from a well respected university.

Because of mother's connections, immediately placed into mid-level management in corporation after graduation.

No college debt to his name.

Person B:

Born into a 2 bedroom apartment in a lower class area of a city

Mother is a secretary.

Father is in jail.

Mother and Father were never married and father disappeared shortly after birth.

Attended an inner-city school where violence and drug use was prevalent

Studied hard and attended a community college, then transferred and graduated from a lower level university.

Takes one of first available jobs offered, regardless of pay because in need of employment.

$80,000 of college debt to his name.

Who has the advantage here? Did person A necessarily work harder to achieve his position? Or did person A simply have more access to resources?

People seem to always forget that having money to begin with puts you at an advantage to obtain more money and have a higher rate of success in life. But here's the killer... Person A only makes up less than 1% of the population. I'm not saying that Person A don't have the right to have money and should give everything to the system. But it should be their duty to contribute a little more. Let's face it... very few "rich" people can say they went from "rags to riches" and they're life is simply success from hard work.
 
thousands of dollars. this implies less than 10, even if it ends up being slightly more than that, if you make more than a quarter of a million dollars, how much of an impact does that make? very little. i fail to see the unfairness.
 
my mom makes a lot of money and my step dad got laid off. they do ok but not good enough to be taxed like that.
 
hahahahahahhahahahahahahhhahahaha. if they make enough money that they fall into the 250k a year or more bracket they arent doing "ok" they are doing better than the vast majority of america. my family makes HALF that and were well off.
 
wsj_tax_chart.gif

 
not to mention those averages in dollar amount are thrown off because the super absurdly rich will pay a large amount in, whereas people just above that bracket will only pay a small amount more
 
no like they do ok as in car payments, mortgage, 2 other kids besides me. they dont have a lot of money to toss around.

JD I have seen so many graphs like that showing different things i dont know what ones to believe.
 
Well, even those above the 111k mark are getting an overall tax cut even though tax on amounts above 111k are going up, because of the significant tax deduction on amounts BELOW 111k. But really, the proportion of the US population that makes that much money in income is absolutely tiny.
 
if your parents make more than 250k they need to get their priorities straight. again. my family makes half that and we own our house have 3 cars in the family all payed for, and they have more than enough money to pay for the rest of my school and my brothers.

so clearly they were making some unwise financial decisions somewhere
 
I'ld be more than happy to make $10 right now. I am a college grad too and all.

I have until November 7th or so to have a job, so I am not desperate enough to go and work at taco bell. Now if for some reason I can't get hired at a ski resort (unlikely since I've been working for them for 9 seasons) then yeah, I'll probably be desperate. But I appologise for searching for the $8 an hour job I would rather have that will benefit me than the $6.50 an hour job that just gives me $6.50 an hour. When I complain about not being able to find a job it is because there is not a job market for anyone right now.

They tell you that if you have a college degree that you should be able to have a job worth a college degree. Is it wrong for me to want that?

I knew there would be a transition period after college, I expected it. I worked a 5 week summer camp job. I've done PA work. I moved back home so that I could live off the money I had remaining. But I still think that while I search for a job I should be able to go to the doctor if I need to. And it isn't like I'm just wasting away all of my time here. I've been working on 4 different websites during this time one of them which is a non profit. I also left my info at the school next door for tutoring. I was thinking about calling the Humane Society too.

There are worthwhile good people out there that do do things for others and contribute as much as they can in the ways that they can. So if I am wrong in trying to achieve what I want before performing desperate acts, then please, tell me I how un-American I am.

And I wasn't going to go there, but the previous comment, made by someone else about me being a bigger burden on society and that I shouldnt donate my tax return, wow. I have worked my ass off for everything I have, yes I have a debt but not a single dollar of that wasnt school related. Yes I ski, but I have never paid for a season pass or more than $100 on pair of skis. I have been living for less than $800 a month since January and am now living for about $400 a month. So if I feel so inclined to donate that money to people I think can use it (usually education) I will do so. I know that I am not going to be the mother with 4 kids and no job. I know that 10 years from now I will have a decent position and my loans paid off. I have no intention of ever being your burden.
 
They're all probably pretty accurate, they're just showing the same things in different formats. For example that shows individual income classes rather than overall effective tax rate for people with X amount of annual income. Basically it means exactly what Obama says it means, though; if you're not in the top 5% of wage income earners your taxes will go down overall. Income tax rates are easy enough to figure out once you understand the basic principles of tax law. It's deductions, tax credits and what income is actually taxable that's the real confusing stuff.
 
not really at one point my mom was paying mortgages on 3 houses because she moved between 3 different jobs. one of which required her to move across the country which is not cheap.
 
Yeah i agree on the poor lending, seems like many of the banks kinda fucked themselves over, giving hefty mortgages to people with poor credit....to be honest i don't know what i think of that idea, i'll look up some more info on it an get back to ya! (palin style, but seriously i just don't know enough background info on the subject to talk about it right now....yeah....)
 
again, choices. do you expect me to feel sorry for you? you have multiple cars and your family makes more than 250 k a year. It sounds like you just have your priorities wrong. But whatever. im not here to be your financial advisor
 
"pengi"

if you want to work at a ski area here in MN, work for either hyland, or elm creek... i might work at elm creek because it is 5 min from my college...

but either way they are both "three rivers park district" parks... they treat their employees very well... show up, do your job, do it in a timely manner, be respectful... you wont have a problem, i have worked for them for 3 years and they are GREAT to work for, but you have to be willing to work.....

you really shouldnt have any problems getting a job with them as long as you have half way decent interview skills and a decent cover letter....

 
my mom has a car and my step dad has a car. they both need cars, both cars are like 8 years old not new by any means. this side of my family has nothing to do with my cars or anything i have.
 
so im confused. if they make over 250k and they both have 8 year old cars. where is this money going?
 
hahahaha you write like that chart is a done deal. If you truly believe those tax rates then, pardon the expression, you are very gullible. See you on the conservative side in a few years, sap.
 
ignorant for not believe with you on this question on morality and how to solve it (through govenrment or private choice)?

I disagree.
 
So... you're saying Obama is lying, and once elected he'll go, "Haha! Fooled you all! 50% effective rate on everything!" The chart represents his tax plan, and reflects exactly what his campaign has said about that plan. I mean, you can say he's lying, but that's about as nonsensical as saying John McCain is going to take office and immediately start torturing prisoners in the Rose Garden.
 
haha you just gotta get inside the game.... we bitch, just not around the public... ;)

believe me, if you had ever seen half of the shit i have seen people pull you would loose even more faith in the human race.. haha

have you ever cleaned turds off a playground slide? WTF? people! haha

 
I don't think my interview skills/resume are a problem. I was an outside sales rep for Mt. High.... its about as charismatic of a position as you can have.
 
This whole thread, while full of good political insight and good arguments, has made me sick. Arguing about some rich kids money on the internet really really doesn't solve anything....NS is so holier-than-thou. Drew, you are very smart and a applaud your efforts in trying to make him see how ignorant he is being, but as an immature 16 year old high schooler, it seems like your argument with him probably didn't do anything except breed more disrespect in his mind to all of us "beneath him"
 
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