SNOW: freeride/freestyle skiing game
- Thread starter SNOWTheGame
- Start date
Always_Dead
Member
13298287:georgen12 said:
nope, as far as I know it means it will be released to only those who have purchased it before hand, and once its out of closed beta it will be again available for purchase, but they're still only going to make it free to play once its properly finished which is still awhile off.
I'd buy it if I were you, its only $15 and its so awesome already. Ive had it for two days and already played for 7 hours
SNOWTheGame
Member
half correct..
if you own the game already you are guaranteed first-in-line for the Closed Beta (and will get access a few weeks earlier)
if you don't own the game, go over to www.snowthegame.com and sign up for the Closed Beta - you'll be invited to play (for free!) late-March, on a first come first serve basis.
does that make sense?
if you own the game already you are guaranteed first-in-line for the Closed Beta (and will get access a few weeks earlier)
if you don't own the game, go over to www.snowthegame.com and sign up for the Closed Beta - you'll be invited to play (for free!) late-March, on a first come first serve basis.
does that make sense?
SNOWTheGame
Member
An update on what we're working on for the Closed Beta can be found at the bottom of this post:http://www.snowthegame.com/post-type/news/snow-closed-beta-coming-soon/
We'll release more info about it over the next few months.
We still don't have an ETA on Mac support, but we hope for something soon. Ping Crytek and tell them that you're waiting - it's up to them to get it going.
We'll release more info about it over the next few months.
We still don't have an ETA on Mac support, but we hope for something soon. Ping Crytek and tell them that you're waiting - it's up to them to get it going.
gapersarefriends
Active member
alright so i downloaded the game yesterday onto my hp envy dv4, and everytime i try to load a map it's as if someone turned all the lights off. on the mountain map i can't see shit, how do i fix this? i'm pretty pissed at the moment, i spent fifteen bucks to not be able to play the game properly. All the settings are on the lowest possible and it still doesn't work
*DUMBCAN*
Active member
I've been playing a lot and more and more I'm disliking the jump mechanics. Since we've had a couple of fairly detailed posts in here about grabs I thought I'd throw one in about aerial rotations, cos I thought quite hard about this.
The current system isn't a very good reflection, to say the least, of what a skier does before and during jump tricks. The way spin is generated is inaccurate, leading to physically (virtually) impossible rotations being extremely easy. For example you can spin right, then turn back and spin left, and there are very very few examples in real life of this happening. Also tricks are unintuitive, and extremely difficult real-world tricks like bio 360s are phenomenally easy in SNOW.
The second problem is that it makes the control scheme inefficient. The skier can rotate on three axis and, like Shredsauce, SNOW has taken the most basic approach to modelling rotation. SNOW has complicated the mechanism to mask the simplicity of the model, such as pre-loading spin and butters, but the flaws in the model still shine through.
We can break rotation down into three rotational vectors. They have mathematical names, but I think it would be easier simply to refer to them as 's' (left/right spin), 'f' (front/back flip), and 'l' (lincoln). The current system is to assign controller axis to each of these, which leads to a complicated control scheme because there are no three-axis input devices. The solution is to use an analog stick (controls s and f) with triggers (controls l). In virtually no game is there such a complex rotational control scheme.
Basically, the current model is that each controller axis (x, y and z) controls the magnitude of a different rotational vector. The sum of the three (static) vectors can describe any constant rotation. Applying x,y,z input mid-trick alters these vectors with respect to the skier axis, and I think this is another big underlying problem.
When a skier is in the air they can modify their rotation in two ways: they can spread out and slow their rotation (angular momentum is still conserved, a la physics), or they can contort their bodies in ways that can change some of their rotational vectors.
I'm going to get quite complicated now. Let's change the model so that the z-axis aligns with the gravitational axis. Now z-axis rotation (s when our skier is standing straight up) is perfectly perpendicular to the angle from which gravity pulls. Keeping this frame of reference we can make an assumption: in real life airborne skiers cannot modify their z-axis rotation. This is almost always true. This assumption impacts the control scheme: we are now restricted to two axis of rotation while the skier is in the air, meaning that all controls can be performed using one analog stick.
Now let us consider the skier coming into the jump. He winds up to spin, then 'throws' the trick by pushing his centre of gravity either sideways (l) or forwards/backwards (f). The current control system requires three input axis to control the skier while he prepares to jump, and ideally it should only be two.
I thought about this for a while and recently I had what I think is quite a good idea. I'm going to write it in terms of controller/analog stick, but it can be converted to keyboard. goes as follows:
1. The skier is approaching the jump. As he reaches the jump a 'jump' button (X) is held down.
2. Spin rotation (s) is prepared solely by winding up. This is done by rotating the analog stick, clockwise for right spin and counter clockwise for left. Speed and amount of rotation affect the initial rate of spin.
3. After spin is prepared the analog stick returns to centre while the skier reaches the top of the jump. Pre-loaded spin is conserved, or perhaps falls slowly.
4. At the lip, the player must perform two simultaneous actions, and the timing of these actions affects the result. Firstly, X must be released, this is the cue for the skiers legs to push up. Secondly, the analog stick is flicked sideways or up/down. The angle and speed of this controls the direction in which the skier throws the trick. For normal spins, the analog stick need not be flicked.
5. As soon as the skier is off the ground all three rotational vectors should be set. Now they are translated as the frame of reference shifts (gravity pulls on z-axis) - we no longer control the skier with respect to how he sees the world, rather the left analog stick allows us to make small adjustments to the rotation in the x and y rotational axis. This will allow us to perform double/triple flips, or under-rotate tricks.
6. When the skier is coming to land he opens up to slow rotation. This can be cued to a single button, for example L3. The computer should take control here - the skill isn't in stopping the rotation manually, it's in timing the button so you stop at the right time. Too late - over-rotate, bang. Too early and you under-rotate. You can hold on to push as late as possible, try to get that extra 180, or maybe try stopping a trick early and come off balance and fall. Get it right, and progress flawlessly into the next jump.
This system could be translated directly into computer controllers if you move away from the typical WSAD. WSAD are discreet inputs and you want continuous axis. So use the mouse.
I'd be interested to know what people think.
There may be technical errors in my math. Ignore them.
The current system isn't a very good reflection, to say the least, of what a skier does before and during jump tricks. The way spin is generated is inaccurate, leading to physically (virtually) impossible rotations being extremely easy. For example you can spin right, then turn back and spin left, and there are very very few examples in real life of this happening. Also tricks are unintuitive, and extremely difficult real-world tricks like bio 360s are phenomenally easy in SNOW.
The second problem is that it makes the control scheme inefficient. The skier can rotate on three axis and, like Shredsauce, SNOW has taken the most basic approach to modelling rotation. SNOW has complicated the mechanism to mask the simplicity of the model, such as pre-loading spin and butters, but the flaws in the model still shine through.
We can break rotation down into three rotational vectors. They have mathematical names, but I think it would be easier simply to refer to them as 's' (left/right spin), 'f' (front/back flip), and 'l' (lincoln). The current system is to assign controller axis to each of these, which leads to a complicated control scheme because there are no three-axis input devices. The solution is to use an analog stick (controls s and f) with triggers (controls l). In virtually no game is there such a complex rotational control scheme.
Basically, the current model is that each controller axis (x, y and z) controls the magnitude of a different rotational vector. The sum of the three (static) vectors can describe any constant rotation. Applying x,y,z input mid-trick alters these vectors with respect to the skier axis, and I think this is another big underlying problem.
When a skier is in the air they can modify their rotation in two ways: they can spread out and slow their rotation (angular momentum is still conserved, a la physics), or they can contort their bodies in ways that can change some of their rotational vectors.
I'm going to get quite complicated now. Let's change the model so that the z-axis aligns with the gravitational axis. Now z-axis rotation (s when our skier is standing straight up) is perfectly perpendicular to the angle from which gravity pulls. Keeping this frame of reference we can make an assumption: in real life airborne skiers cannot modify their z-axis rotation. This is almost always true. This assumption impacts the control scheme: we are now restricted to two axis of rotation while the skier is in the air, meaning that all controls can be performed using one analog stick.
Now let us consider the skier coming into the jump. He winds up to spin, then 'throws' the trick by pushing his centre of gravity either sideways (l) or forwards/backwards (f). The current control system requires three input axis to control the skier while he prepares to jump, and ideally it should only be two.
I thought about this for a while and recently I had what I think is quite a good idea. I'm going to write it in terms of controller/analog stick, but it can be converted to keyboard. goes as follows:
1. The skier is approaching the jump. As he reaches the jump a 'jump' button (X) is held down.
2. Spin rotation (s) is prepared solely by winding up. This is done by rotating the analog stick, clockwise for right spin and counter clockwise for left. Speed and amount of rotation affect the initial rate of spin.
3. After spin is prepared the analog stick returns to centre while the skier reaches the top of the jump. Pre-loaded spin is conserved, or perhaps falls slowly.
4. At the lip, the player must perform two simultaneous actions, and the timing of these actions affects the result. Firstly, X must be released, this is the cue for the skiers legs to push up. Secondly, the analog stick is flicked sideways or up/down. The angle and speed of this controls the direction in which the skier throws the trick. For normal spins, the analog stick need not be flicked.
5. As soon as the skier is off the ground all three rotational vectors should be set. Now they are translated as the frame of reference shifts (gravity pulls on z-axis) - we no longer control the skier with respect to how he sees the world, rather the left analog stick allows us to make small adjustments to the rotation in the x and y rotational axis. This will allow us to perform double/triple flips, or under-rotate tricks.
6. When the skier is coming to land he opens up to slow rotation. This can be cued to a single button, for example L3. The computer should take control here - the skill isn't in stopping the rotation manually, it's in timing the button so you stop at the right time. Too late - over-rotate, bang. Too early and you under-rotate. You can hold on to push as late as possible, try to get that extra 180, or maybe try stopping a trick early and come off balance and fall. Get it right, and progress flawlessly into the next jump.
This system could be translated directly into computer controllers if you move away from the typical WSAD. WSAD are discreet inputs and you want continuous axis. So use the mouse.
I'd be interested to know what people think.
There may be technical errors in my math. Ignore them.
JahLiam
Active member
13301534:*DUMBCAN* said:
well I mean at the end of the day, it's still a video game. if they are going to make a bio 3 as hard in-game as it is in real lif, then you're better off just trying to learn them in person. what's the point of video games if you can't be a little bit unrealistic sometimes? it's a skiing video game not a skiing simulator
Cincy_Steeze
New member
When if ever is it going to be realized for mac
*DUMBCAN*
Active member
13299240:SNOWTheGame said:
13302654:Cincy_Steeze said:
I aint even mad at your reading ability, in fact, I'm impressed. You've just about surpassed my 3-year old nephew.
13302639:MLJ said:
Click (sets zero point) -> move mouse in circles -> release click and swipe mouse
that was what I had in mind for mouse controls than simply replicating the x and y from the analog stick. The problem with buttons is they only have two quantised input values (0% or 100%) and this is intrinsically restrictive.
SNOWTheGame
Member
13301534:*DUMBCAN* said:
Hey - thanks for such detailed and comprehensive feedback! Believe it or not, this is pretty much how the game was originally designed. Instead of dealing with most of the rotations once you're in-air, you would pre-set your spin before you left the jump and then have the ability to make certain tweaks in the air. If we had all the time in the world I'd definitely want to try this out and see how different it would feel. But, with the limited resources we have we had to make a decision and stick with it.
In the end we're making a game and we want it to appeal to skiers and non-skiers a like. This meant sacrificing certain things that would be too hard to teach a new player or someone that doesn't know how skiing works. The controls we went with in the end are more common for a game like this and therefore more intuitive to pick up from the get-go. The game is already pretty complicated with all the controls to learn and the fact that you end up hitting obstacles pretty quickly if you're not careful, so we didn't want to add additional layers for the players to learn before being able to get down the mountain.
And, hell - this is a game. No one wants to have play a game that is as hard as it is in real life. Have you played any FPSs recently? Do you really think it's that easy to just pick up a rifle and headshot someone?
We are going to do another pass of the values for air rotations - I do think they could be tweaked to be a little better and possibly make some of the harder IRL tricks a bit harder. This is an ongoing process though because every time you tweak something you need to tweak it back a bit to quell the rage of a slight change in how the game feels.
Hope that helps as an answer to your feedback. We love how invested you are to helping us make this game perfect and we are truly doing everything we can to meet the expectations.
*DUMBCAN*
Active member
13304236:SNOWTheGame said:
You guys are awesome and I completely respect your decision.
I think something that got lost is that I really don't want simply to make it harder. I think it's far too hard right now to do tricks that we see people do, like dub 10s, when you can do tricks that are nigh on impossible in real life.
It's not about making the game harder, it's about making tricks that are hard in real life rewarding when you learn them in game.
Cyabski
Member
My problem with the in air rotation system is that the biggest trick i can do is a cork 7, and for that matter it doesnt even look like a cork 7. Im using the keyboard to play is there a trick for better rotations other than the shift key?
Also the ski models kind of annoy me. For example according to the game, line sick day 95s have the exact same profile as the sick day 110s and both of which have identical shapes as the rest of the line skis. And its like that for almost every ski. There needs to be realistic ski shapes. it would be cool if the skis were categorized by the type of ski they are (powder, park, all mtn) and then assigned different attributes that would benefit the player if they used the proper ski in the proper terrain, and negatively affect the player if they used a park ski in powder for example
Also the ski models kind of annoy me. For example according to the game, line sick day 95s have the exact same profile as the sick day 110s and both of which have identical shapes as the rest of the line skis. And its like that for almost every ski. There needs to be realistic ski shapes. it would be cool if the skis were categorized by the type of ski they are (powder, park, all mtn) and then assigned different attributes that would benefit the player if they used the proper ski in the proper terrain, and negatively affect the player if they used a park ski in powder for example
SNOWTheGame
Member
13304272:*DUMBCAN* said:
I agree, but unfortunately it simply might be the case in some instances. Instead, other tricks might be harder, still resulting in challenging (and fun) gameplay.
13305117:Cyabski said:
Maybe your keyboard can't handle the inputs you're giving it? Also keep in mind that our rotation "counter" still needs some work and isn't super accurate so you might be actually doing more spins than you think...
13305117:Cyabski said:
We have a half-dozen ski shapes but will make the ski shapes more accurate later on. We also have to consider that there is no pressure being put on the skis so things like camber would be super obvious when riding (since the ski wouldn't be flexed downwards). Finally, we need to make sure grabs are no clipping through the skis, so we need to make a special system for that.
We will have different ski types in the future that affect the feeling when riding on different terrains.
SNOWTheGame
Member
Oh, and this...
Cyabski
Member
SNOW is so cool because of this thread. The amount of player input you guys have to go through is probably insane but because you take the time to reply to what people are saying, it makes us the gamers feel important. You guys at poppermost are taking the best possible approach to developing a game like this and it is exciting to read this thred and learn how the game is being evolved
spintowinG
New member
Can anyone tell me where the biggest cliff/ drop/ jump on the game is please? Also struggling to work out how to fly? Thanks in advance.
*DUMBCAN*
Active member
13306805:spintowinG said:
There's a few decent ones.
Most obvious is about 1 o clock from the first spawn point, it's possible to do triple fronts off it.
Absolute biggest I've found is quite hard to get to. Go to Sialia summit, and go left all the way around the rock behind where you start. After turning a bit more than 180 degrees (it's easier to go left) go straight on just to the right of the next group of rocks. This is kinda vague but after a while you should come to the top of a ski lift. Beyond the ski lift is a fence, ride with the fence on the left until the first gap. Turn through here into the couloir, go down a bit and you come to an ice river. Don't bomb this, you'll have more than enough speed and you'll fall over (probably). When you get to the end there's a bit that looks like a good ramp, and unsurprisingly it is. It's possible to get 5 frontlips here.
spintowinG
New member
13306812:*DUMBCAN* said:
Yeah I got quads off the first one you mentioned, struggling to find the other one though, have got to a point where there is 2 ski lifts following the instructions but then can't see a fence?
Also any reason why they got rid of the 'sketchy/perfect' landings thing? Thought it was good.
SNOWTheGame
Member
13306429:Cyabski said:
And it's comments like that that keep us going
SNOWTheGame
Member
13306845:spintowinG said:
I think he's referring to this jump:http://www.snowthegame.com/share/#!orderby=newest/shareid=1933
We weren't intending to get rid of sketchy/stomped landings, we just broke it by mistake for the time being
13306871:Eastern.Skier said:
For now we're exclusive with PS4 so no xbox...
Hammyslapwagon
Active member
Man you guys have come a long way.
SNOWTheGame
Member
S Games is now live on SNOW Test (for those of you that have the Tester or Founder Pack). Once we know it's stable (should take a day or so) we will make it live on regular SNOW app.
mooseman077
Member
Anyone having issues with the S Games level? I never had a problem with crashing but I can't get a single full lap through the slope course without SNOW crashing on me.
SNOWTheGame
Member
13310828:mooseman077 said:
Change the time of day - we hear this might be a solution to stopping the crash (might have to do with all the lights in the level). This is why we put it on SNOW Test first
13310891:Aidin954 said:
We have new physics code that will come out with 4.4 (official release with S Games etc). Trying to get it out asap.
McLS
Active member
Little review of latest snow test update:
played a few hours on snow test on the sgame level (crashed a few times at first and then didn't have any other issues). I dunno if you've implemented new rail physics, or the rails in sgame level are better (they are) or i'm just getting better at rails (or all of that together), cos i feel i can finally ski rails pretty good now (a part from switch ups, those are nearly impossible).
So yeah, GREAAAAT JOB on the sgames level, really nailed it (a part from the big air jump, it gives you less air than the 2nd and 3rd kickers of the slopestyle section, couldn't even huck a triple back with prepping and tucking)
On the physics side of things, 2 big things that make me reaaaally annoyed:
-When you prep left or right before jumping, it makes you turn too, which basically makes it impossible to preps properly, unless you're carving in, and still, it looks very unatural. Maybe have it so it locks down when you press space and left/right?
-The key for butters and for "spin/flipfaster/tuck" key is the same (shift) and that can be a real pain, can't really butter without then spinning fast, and it just doesn't feel right that it's the same key. Should be pretty easy to fix right?
smaller things:
-you can prep for frontflip, backflip, and right/left but not lincolns. Kinda annoying when you're combining lincoln and left/right (which is what I do for most tricks), which makes it really hard to throw dubs. Please make lincoln "prepable" too!
Ideally, it would be perfect if you could prep left/right+lincoln+up/down to throw some fast tricks other than corks and weirdly looking rodeos/mistys. So the player would be holding down space+lincoln+up/down+left/right (what i suggested in my first comment would have to be working for that) before releasing space, keeping all the other keys down and adding shift to speed up the rotation. That way it would be much easier (and just possible tbh) to throw realistic dub rodeos/underflip/misty/overflips and such.
So yeah that's it from me (oh and yeah, rail mechanics still need working, switch ups...pls pls pls). Big bravo to all the devs, you guys have come such a long way it's incredible!!!
played a few hours on snow test on the sgame level (crashed a few times at first and then didn't have any other issues). I dunno if you've implemented new rail physics, or the rails in sgame level are better (they are) or i'm just getting better at rails (or all of that together), cos i feel i can finally ski rails pretty good now (a part from switch ups, those are nearly impossible).
So yeah, GREAAAAT JOB on the sgames level, really nailed it (a part from the big air jump, it gives you less air than the 2nd and 3rd kickers of the slopestyle section, couldn't even huck a triple back with prepping and tucking)
On the physics side of things, 2 big things that make me reaaaally annoyed:
-When you prep left or right before jumping, it makes you turn too, which basically makes it impossible to preps properly, unless you're carving in, and still, it looks very unatural. Maybe have it so it locks down when you press space and left/right?
-The key for butters and for "spin/flipfaster/tuck" key is the same (shift) and that can be a real pain, can't really butter without then spinning fast, and it just doesn't feel right that it's the same key. Should be pretty easy to fix right?
smaller things:
-you can prep for frontflip, backflip, and right/left but not lincolns. Kinda annoying when you're combining lincoln and left/right (which is what I do for most tricks), which makes it really hard to throw dubs. Please make lincoln "prepable" too!
Ideally, it would be perfect if you could prep left/right+lincoln+up/down to throw some fast tricks other than corks and weirdly looking rodeos/mistys. So the player would be holding down space+lincoln+up/down+left/right (what i suggested in my first comment would have to be working for that) before releasing space, keeping all the other keys down and adding shift to speed up the rotation. That way it would be much easier (and just possible tbh) to throw realistic dub rodeos/underflip/misty/overflips and such.
So yeah that's it from me (oh and yeah, rail mechanics still need working, switch ups...pls pls pls). Big bravo to all the devs, you guys have come such a long way it's incredible!!!