Sexism in Skiing

TLDR, how about in the name of true equality we get rid of men's and women's skiing and just have skiing competitions. So men and women compete against each other. That way the prize money would be the same for both genders. This solves the problem doesn't it?
 
Alright now, how about we hear from a woman who is a competitive skier who is actually affected by this? This applies to everyone who has commented on this thread.

I was just recently at Kicking Horse Mountain for the Freeride World Qualifier 4*. Men won $1k and women won $600. In Canadian dollars... When I saw this I was pretty disappointed to say the least... And most comps are like this. And yes, I do understand how slopestyle or halfpipe comps are different blah blah blah...... BUT when we are comparing things.... same same, but different.

All of these gals on the FWQ work just as hard, if not harder than a lot of the guys. We also have to fork out THE SAME ENTRY FEE even though there are more men that compete than girls, but we don't get the same winnings? That's what really gets me worked up the most is the fact we have to spend the same amount of money to get there; shit if not more if you think about it, yet we don't get the same winnings. And these comps are expensive AF. 4* entry fee is usually around $200 give or take. We don't get lift tickets with that either. Put tickets on top of that, ranging anywhere from $150-$350 depending on the resort and how many days you're skiing...... that shit adds up. Plus we do at least 5 or 6 comps a year!

And if your argument is "more guys are competing therefore they should get more money" then try being a fucking woman and put all of your effort and money into what you love to do (skiing) then go win and be stoked to only find out that you're getting less money because " there's just more guys competing". It's bullshit and In case you are questioning my credibility, I'm right up there with the top women, currently ranked in 5th on the FWQ with a bunch of podiums under my belt along with some really ripping ladies who absolutely SEND IT whether you think so or not.

And for us on the FWQ, that shit hardly ever get televised. So there's really no reason to say that it's simply people don't watch the women.

And to those of you comparing the amount of effort people put into this sport to fucking basketball and school grades? Are you kidding me? Real nice comparison, skiing is TOTALLY like those. If we are making comparisons like that, go ahead and go try men's gymnastics, cause I know for a fact you'll get your ass whooped by a female gymnast (wow a female dominated sport?! what?!?!)

Also I absolutely love the fact that men are making decisions for women. You guys obviously know SO MUCH about what it's like to be a woman in a professional sport that has always been dominated by the male athlete, who really couldn't give a shit cause they're not affected by it, literally NEVER affected by it until now. So here's a big fuck you to all you guys who are doing just that. Sitting there on your asses festering on NS cause "oh god forbid I get a little less money cause WOMEN are actually changing something for themselves that been a problem for a long time" (oh no!!! how terrifying!!)

That was my small input, yet I could go on and on about it since I'm actually affected by it. It's easy to say shit when it's not affecting you (I'm talking to you "MEN") And yes please go ahead and say shit like "ooh she's triggered" because yes, I am triggered cause this is bullshit. Thank you.

**This post was edited on Mar 25th 2018 at 2:01:01pm
 
13908230:BedBugDoug said:
TLDR, how about in the name of true equality we get rid of men's and women's skiing and just have skiing competitions. So men and women compete against each other. That way the prize money would be the same for both genders. This solves the problem doesn't it?
Click to expand...

Spoiler alert: don't read if you're faint of heart. Or if your name is OP.

Because it will expose the inequalities in physical and athletic abilities for what they really are. Why not integrate men's and women's basketball, track, tennis, baseball (and end softball), lacrosse, and soccer? People wanna complain about inequality and sexism but are complacent with distinctions within sports. Come on..... Sure some women can shred or are fast as fuck or strong as fuck, but in most cases, the top men would dominate the top women. It's not sexist; it's simple biology with our innate ability to be bigger, faster, and stronger.

What if we combined all youth sports into ages 10-18 as one team? Well you can guess the outcome...

Separating the sports into genders allows people to feel respected. It allows everyone to ignore the simple evolutionary fact that men are more physical beings.

Once again, not being sexist. I'm just stating the harsh reality..... It would be interesting to see if they integrated sports from a very young age, would it improve the competitiveness of female athletes, allowing them to dominate over men or at least be equal?

Lastly, if a woman wants to join a men's sports team or compete in an event against men, should they be allowed to? ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT A DOUBT.

Also see:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761733/
 
13908241:IsitWinterYet17 said:
Spoiler alert: don't read if you're faint of heart. Or if your name is OP.

Because it will expose the inequalities in physical and athletic abilities for what they really are. Why not integrate men's and women's basketball, track, tennis, baseball (and end softball), lacrosse, and soccer? People wanna complain about inequality and sexism but are complacent with distinctions within sports. Come on..... Sure some women can shred or are fast as fuck or strong as fuck, but in most cases, the top men would dominate the top women. It's not sexist; it's simple biology with our innate ability to be bigger, faster, and stronger.

What if we combined all youth sports into ages 10-18 as one team? Well you can guess the outcome...

Separating the sports into genders allows people to feel respected. It allows everyone to ignore the simple evolutionary fact that men are more physical beings.

Once again, not being sexist. I'm just stating the harsh reality..... It would be interesting to see if they integrated sports from a very young age, would it improve the competitiveness of female athletes, allowing them to dominate over men or at least be equal?

Lastly, if a woman wants to join a men's sports team or compete in an event against men, should they be allowed to? ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT A DOUBT.

Also see:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761733/
Click to expand...

I know man, that was the exact point I was making haha. But I wanted op to say that it wouldn't be fair because then the women would get 0 prize money. Then I would ask him why that is, then he would be forced to say that it is because they are not as good as men, then I would tell him he just answered his original question. It would have been glorious lol
 
13908242:BedBugDoug said:
I know man, that was the exact point I was making haha. But I wanted op to say that it wouldn't be fair because then the women would get 0 prize money. Then I would ask him why that is, then he would be forced to say that it is because they are not as good as men, then I would tell him he just answered his original question. It would have been glorious lol
Click to expand...

Ah sheet sorry I stole your fire
 
13908243:IsitWinterYet17 said:
Ah sheet sorry I stole your fire
Click to expand...

Its all good brother. There is no way it would have worked out as good as it did in my head. Thank you for putting it in black and white
 
13908237:skiponie said:
Alright now, how about we hear from a woman who is a competitive skier who is actually affected by this? This applies to everyone who has commented on this thread.

I was just recently at Kicking Horse Mountain for the Freeride World Qualifier 4*. Men won $1k and women won $600. In Canadian dollars... When I saw this I was pretty disappointed to say the least... And most comps are like this. And yes, I do understand how slopestyle or halfpipe comps are different blah blah blah...... BUT when we are comparing things.... same same, but different.

All of these gals on the FWQ work just as hard, if not harder than a lot of the guys. We also have to fork out THE SAME ENTRY FEE even though there are more men that compete than girls, but we don't get the same winnings? That's what really gets me worked up the most is the fact we have to spend the same amount of money to get there; shit if not more if you think about it, yet we don't get the same winnings. And these comps are expensive AF. 4* entry fee is usually around $200 give or take. We don't get lift tickets with that either. Put tickets on top of that, ranging anywhere from $150-$350 depending on the resort and how many days you're skiing...... that shit adds up. Plus we do at least 5 or 6 comps a year!

And if your argument is "more guys are competing therefore they should get more money" then try being a fucking woman and put all of your effort and money into what you love to do (skiing) then go win and be stoked to only find out that you're getting less money because " there's just more guys competing". It's bullshit and In case you are questioning my credibility, I'm right up there with the top women, currently ranked in 5th on the FWQ with a bunch of podiums under my belt along with some really ripping ladies who absolutely SEND IT whether you think so or not.

That was my small input, yet I could go on and on about it since I'm actually affected by it. It's easy to say shit when it's not affecting you (I'm talking to you "MEN") And yes please go ahead and say shit like "ooh she's triggered" because yes, I am triggered cause this is bullshit. Thank you :)
Click to expand...

So you're saying men and women pay the same amount, there are more men than women, and the women get paid less? And somehow that makes you angry?

Also 1k against 600 is pretty even. Especially with you even mentioning that their are more men.

It kind of sounds like these comps are a bad deal if you aren't enjoying yourself. 200 entry, plus full price ticket, and only winning 600 or 1k? Lol. That's not sexism, that's just not a very good financial decision if you're doing this for the money.

The men are competing against more people, more money is coming in, and they still aren't getting much.

Let's say I do a raffle in 50/50 raffle in two different towns. The first place has 1000 people in it, the second only 100. Isn't it so unfair that I hate the one town so much I only gave them a 10th of what the other town got?

I still don't even understand what you're mad about. You stated that their are more men. You stated that women are still getting 60% of what the men get. Somewhere in there you're angry and something about sexism?

This seems pretty fair to me. Not because I'm a man, but logic.
 
13908246:theabortionator said:
So you're saying men and women pay the same amount, there are more men than women, and the women get paid less? And somehow that makes you angry?

Also 1k against 600 is pretty even. Especially with you even mentioning that their are more men.

It kind of sounds like these comps are a bad deal if you aren't enjoying yourself. 200 entry, plus full price ticket, and only winning 600 or 1k? Lol. That's not sexism, that's just not a very good financial decision if you're doing this for the money.

The men are competing against more people, more money is coming in, and they still aren't getting much.

Let's say I do a raffle in 50/50 raffle in two different towns. The first place has 1000 people in it, the second only 100. Isn't it so unfair that I hate the one town so much I only gave them a 10th of what the other town got?

I still don't even understand what you're mad about. You stated that their are more men. You stated that women are still getting 60% of what the men get. Somewhere in there you're angry and something about sexism?

This seems pretty fair to me. Not because I'm a man, but logic.
Click to expand...

Hahahaha, yeah I'm totally in this for the money. Of course I'm not in it for the money? If I was in it from the money, I'd probably compete in something like fucking slope or racing or halfpipe that actually pays to be there. But that's not my jam, I like actual freeskiing.

I'm in these comps cause I FUCKING LOVE SKIING and I love my freeride family. Of course I'm not in it for the money. Obviously that's different in the other events. I don't know a single skier in it for the money. If you are, you're not a real skier. Also you never thought about what sponsors pay you for the podiums and/or footage. Thanks for letting me know your thoughts on what I spend my money on.

I'm mad because YES this affects me, unlike you. I do have to pay the same amount to get there and yet in the event that I do win, I don't get paid the same amount? How do YOU not see the inequality in that? Sure there's more men who enter, but after qualifiers, there's usually about the same amount of people they take to finals. Also if that's your biggest argument, there is statistically more men in the whole world than there are women..... So yeah good on ya, there's always going to be more men entering in most competitions. And yes, it is proven fact that men are better in certain physical aspects than women. Yes, that's a proven fact, COOL! Tell me something I don't know! You ever think that's why more men compete over women?

Does that automatically make it so that women's sports don't mean shit financially? It shouldn't but it is that way.

What's so bad to you about equality in pay?

I'm going to assume that you "the abortionator" (sick name BTW) aren't a competitive athlete. I could probably assume you probably don't have the best of luck with women for obvious reasons. Why are you so worked up about something that will not affect you and has probably never affected them in their life whatsoever. What's so bad about change?

The thing about skiing and ski competitions is that they are unlike anything else. We have a great community. I can't speak for other types of ski events but, us on the FWQ and FWT, we are a huge family, we all love each other, we are never weird or catty or competitive with each other, and none of us are in it for the money. Whoever said skiing will make you rich was literally nobody lol. And the fact that you said I'm not enjoying myself? Wow. Those are some of the funnest, most exhilarating fucking times I think I have ever had! Yeah I might be fucking broke and living in a goddamn ambulance cause I can't afford rent, or even a place to stay when I'm traveling, but I am one happy, ski loving, snow addicted motherfucker who loves to compete with all of her best friends who continue to push one another to go bigger, ski faster, and just simply have fun.

Again, there is something that needs to change financially with competitions and I'm surprised you can't see that.
 
13908246:theabortionator said:
So you're saying men and women pay the same amount, there are more men than women, and the women get paid less? And somehow that makes you angry?

Also 1k against 600 is pretty even. Especially with you even mentioning that their are more men.

It kind of sounds like these comps are a bad deal if you aren't enjoying yourself. 200 entry, plus full price ticket, and only winning 600 or 1k? Lol. That's not sexism, that's just not a very good financial decision if you're doing this for the money.

The men are competing against more people, more money is coming in, and they still aren't getting much.

Let's say I do a raffle in 50/50 raffle in two different towns. The first place has 1000 people in it, the second only 100. Isn't it so unfair that I hate the one town so much I only gave them a 10th of what the other town got?

I still don't even understand what you're mad about. You stated that their are more men. You stated that women are still getting 60% of what the men get. Somewhere in there you're angry and something about sexism?

This seems pretty fair to me. Not because I'm a man, but logic.
Click to expand...

Holy shit only one competitive woman skier comments with a valid argument against inequal pay - yet you still find a way to insert your unwanted opinion on the subject? Are you a woman? Do you competively ski? Do you even know how difficult the ifsa makes it to compete for just a chance on the FWT?

Coaching some little girls in freestyle doesn't make you an expect on women trying to make it in the ski industry either.
 
13908259:skiponie said:
Hahahaha, yeah I'm totally in this for the money. Of course I'm not in it for the money? If I was in it from the money, I'd probably compete in something like fucking slope or racing or halfpipe that actually pays to be there. But that's not my jam, I like actual freeskiing.

I'm in these comps cause I FUCKING LOVE SKIING and I love my freeride family. Of course I'm not in it for the money. Obviously that's different in the other events. I don't know a single skier in it for the money. If you are, you're not a real skier. Also you never thought about what sponsors pay you for the podiums and/or footage. Thanks for letting me know your thoughts on what I spend my money on.

I'm mad because YES this affects me, unlike you. I do have to pay the same amount to get there and yet in the event that I do win, I don't get paid the same amount? How do YOU not see the inequality in that? Sure there's more men who enter, but after qualifiers, there's usually about the same amount of people they take to finals. Also if that's your biggest argument, there is statistically more men in the whole world than there are women..... So yeah good on ya, there's always going to be more men entering in most competitions. And yes, it is proven fact that men are better in certain physical aspects than women. Yes, that's a proven fact, COOL! Tell me something I don't know! You ever think that's why more men compete over women?

Does that automatically make it so that women's sports don't mean shit financially? It shouldn't but it is that way.

What's so bad to you about equality in pay?

I'm going to assume that you "the abortionator" (sick name BTW) aren't a competitive athlete. I could probably assume you probably don't have the best of luck with women for obvious reasons. Why are you so worked up about something that will not affect you and has probably never affected them in their life whatsoever. What's so bad about change?

The thing about skiing and ski competitions is that they are unlike anything else. We have a great community. I can't speak for other types of ski events but, us on the FWQ and FWT, we are a huge family, we all love each other, we are never weird or catty or competitive with each other, and none of us are in it for the money. Whoever said skiing will make you rich was literally nobody lol. And the fact that you said I'm not enjoying myself? Wow. Those are some of the funnest, most exhilarating fucking times I think I have ever had! Yeah I might be fucking broke and living in a goddamn ambulance cause I can't afford rent, or even a place to stay when I'm traveling, but I am one happy, ski loving, snow addicted motherfucker who loves to compete with all of her best friends who continue to push one another to go bigger, ski faster, and just simply have fun.

Again, there is something that needs to change financially with competitions and I'm surprised you can't see that.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying you shouldn't wish for money. I'm just struggling to understand how a group that brings in more money, making more money, is so upsetting. Also you're talking about 60% which doesn't even seem bad. I don't see why the amount of people taken to the finals is relevant at all. There could be 10 people taken to finals from 1000 in qualifiers or 10 people taken from 25 people in qualifiers. Just because 10 make it to finals in each, doesn't really even out those numbers. Qualifiers are generally a set number because that's what can run smoothly at the contest.

"Again, there is something that needs to change financially with competitions and I'm surprised you can't see that."

I agreed. It seems like everybody is getting hosed, men or women.I think the sporit, I'm glad you love competing, I'm glad you're sending it. I just don't see what we're arguing about. You're saying everyone pays the same entry fee, their are far more men than women, and the women are only getting 40%less than the men. Maybe I'm a terrible person, but I don't see a problem with that.

Also, I have extremely "good" luck with women. To a fault. I say good because I'm not interested, yet that doesn't seem to go both ways. I don't feel the need to go further into the details of having girls not take no for an answer even when you're nice and just want to be friends, but yeah, that's pretty much the regular. But yeah, assumptions are chill. Most of my best friends are women. I connect pretty well with them, and respect the fuck out of them.

You're talking about making things fair, but then pushing something that I don't see as fair. Yeah you got me, I don't have a vagina, I'm not going to enter a womens comp ever, but why does that mean I can't state my opinion?

13908260:emren said:
Holy shit only one competitive woman skier comments with a valid argument against inequal pay - yet you still find a way to insert your unwanted opinion on the subject? Are you a woman? Do you competively ski? Do you even know how difficult the ifsa makes it to compete for just a chance on the FWT?

Coaching some little girls in freestyle doesn't make you an expect on women trying to make it in the ski industry either.
Click to expand...

It sounds pretty fucking equal percentage wise, maybe better. And that's excluding any arguments being made in this thread about tricks being thrown down, sponsor influence on gear sales, and viewership. She's saying everyone pays 200, there are a lot more men competing, men get 1k, women get 600. Both groups sounds like they're getting a shitty payout, but it seems pretty fair as far as men vs. women.

So, I'm not a woman, I don't compete any more, etc so I can't have an opinion.

I'm guessing you meant expert. I never claimed to be an expert on anything. My statements about coaching girls and how stoked I am about womens skiing and boarding are just that. I think it's fucking awesome, I support it. You don't need to be a dick and say "NOTHING YOU SAY MATTER BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE AND DONT EVEN HAVE A VAGINA!" because that's pretty much what you're saying.

I don't have a vagina, I don't currently compete, deal with it. If there's less money coming in from the womens side, the women are getting payed slightly less, you're making a big deal about nothing.

Complain about the prizes being to low sure. But it your whole argument is a women vs. men thing you're fucking delusional.

I'm a man, I have a penis, my goal in life isn't to ruin the live's or all women. I'm simply just a man that has a penis. Maybe in my next life I'll have a vagina so I can say the same things with a pink name and then be worthy of challenging you.

Women are great, womens skiing is great, your idea of this injustice is wack af.

I think I'm done though. It seems no matter what I say you'll keep pointing out the fact that I'm a man as a reason that I'm wrong, rather than put together a solid argument.
 
Eye roll to these indignant, self-righteous responses from the women in this thread telling the guys they’ve no business having an opinion as it doesn’t affect them (never mind the bit about take some of the men’s prize money and give it to the women...).

And people arguing about how in gymnastics the women are dominant proves everyone else’s argument: in a sport like gymnastics where the women are the draw, the pinnacle, etc. the women are the ones with the acclaim, recognition, and opportunities.

Name a successful male gymnast that’s a household name. Now give me the 10 women names everyone in the states can rattle off as a non-sports fan. Who do you think scores endorsement deals etc.?

Lindsey Vonn and Mikaela Shiffrin are the two most recognizable skiers in the country, and it ain’t close. Think they make less annually than ted ligetty or Steven nyman?

This argument is actually absurd and based solely on emotion and entitlement and I don’t care if I’m downvoted into oblivion and buried under an avalanche of tsk tsk posts about what a sexist piece of shit I am.

If you think women skiers in the freeski world should be compensated at the level of the men, then go quadruple the female participation in the sport, start an Instagram and build a fan base and convince the world that what you’re doing is valuable and compelling.

As it is, a 3rd place in the women’s field is not as impressive or difficult as a 3rd place in the men’s field in freeskiing. It just isn’t. That’s not the result of a worldwide conspiracy to maintain the status quo patriarchy. It’s the market.
 
13908267:theabortionator said:
I'm not saying you shouldn't wish for money. I'm just struggling to understand how a group that brings in more money, making more money, is so upsetting. Also you're talking about 60% which doesn't even seem bad. I don't see why the amount of people taken to the finals is relevant at all. There could be 10 people taken to finals from 1000 in qualifiers or 10 people taken from 25 people in qualifiers. Just because 10 make it to finals in each, doesn't really even out those numbers. Qualifiers are generally a set number because that's what can run smoothly at the contest.

"Again, there is something that needs to change financially with competitions and I'm surprised you can't see that."

I agreed. It seems like everybody is getting hosed, men or women.I think the sporit, I'm glad you love competing, I'm glad you're sending it. I just don't see what we're arguing about. You're saying everyone pays the same entry fee, their are far more men than women, and the women are only getting 40%less than the men. Maybe I'm a terrible person, but I don't see a problem with that.

Also, I have extremely "good" luck with women. To a fault. I say good because I'm not interested, yet that doesn't seem to go both ways. I don't feel the need to go further into the details of having girls not take no for an answer even when you're nice and just want to be friends, but yeah, that's pretty much the regular. But yeah, assumptions are chill. Most of my best friends are women. I connect pretty well with them, and respect the fuck out of them.

You're talking about making things fair, but then pushing something that I don't see as fair. Yeah you got me, I don't have a vagina, I'm not going to enter a womens comp ever, but why does that mean I can't state my opinion?

It sounds pretty fucking equal percentage wise, maybe better. And that's excluding any arguments being made in this thread about tricks being thrown down, sponsor influence on gear sales, and viewership. She's saying everyone pays 200, there are a lot more men competing, men get 1k, women get 600. Both groups sounds like they're getting a shitty payout, but it seems pretty fair as far as men vs. women.

So, I'm not a woman, I don't compete any more, etc so I can't have an opinion.

I'm guessing you meant expert. I never claimed to be an expert on anything. My statements about coaching girls and how stoked I am about womens skiing and boarding are just that. I think it's fucking awesome, I support it. You don't need to be a dick and say "NOTHING YOU SAY MATTER BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE AND DONT EVEN HAVE A VAGINA!" because that's pretty much what you're saying.

I don't have a vagina, I don't currently compete, deal with it. If there's less money coming in from the womens side, the women are getting payed slightly less, you're making a big deal about nothing.

Complain about the prizes being to low sure. But it your whole argument is a women vs. men thing you're fucking delusional.

I'm a man, I have a penis, my goal in life isn't to ruin the live's or all women. I'm simply just a man that has a penis. Maybe in my next life I'll have a vagina so I can say the same things with a pink name and then be worthy of challenging you.

Women are great, womens skiing is great, your idea of this injustice is wack af.

I think I'm done though. It seems no matter what I say you'll keep pointing out the fact that I'm a man as a reason that I'm wrong, rather than put together a solid argument.
Click to expand...

Seriously? You're a piece of fucking trash

You literally know nothing about the fucking shit women in the ski industy have to deal with

And you know the kinds of people who are the worst?

Men who prance around saying they support women who ski, yet somehow, in someway, believe their opinion is more valid than a women's. In women's skiing.

Your opinion is LESS VALID get over it

You are fucking physco who can't admit you're wrong
 
13908268:casual said:
Eye roll to these indignant, self-righteous responses from the women in this thread telling the guys they’ve no business having an opinion as it doesn’t affect them (never mind the bit about take some of the men’s prize money and give it to the women...).

And people arguing about how in gymnastics the women are dominant proves everyone else’s argument: in a sport like gymnastics where the women are the draw, the pinnacle, etc. the women are the ones with the acclaim, recognition, and opportunities.

Name a successful male gymnast that’s a household name. Now give me the 10 women names everyone in the states can rattle off as a non-sports fan. Who do you think scores endorsement deals etc.?

Lindsey Vonn and Mikaela Shiffrin are the two most recognizable skiers in the country, and it ain’t close. Think they make less annually than ted ligetty or Steven nyman?

This argument is actually absurd and based solely on emotion and entitlement and I don’t care if I’m downvoted into oblivion and buried under an avalanche of tsk tsk posts about what a sexist piece of shit I am.

If you think women skiers in the freeski world should be compensated at the level of the men, then go quadruple the female participation in the sport, start an Instagram and build a fan base and convince the world that what you’re doing is valuable and compelling.

As it is, a 3rd place in the women’s field is not as impressive or difficult as a 3rd place in the men’s field in freeskiing. It just isn’t. That’s not the result of a worldwide conspiracy to maintain the status quo patriarchy. It’s the market.
Click to expand...

You're so self righteous you just wrote out this long ass response to a topic that is not relevant to you.

You are not a women. You do not compete in IFSA competitions. Not to mention, skiing is not gymnastics so why the comparison?
 
13908272:emren said:
Seriously? You're a piece of fucking trash

You literally know nothing about the fucking shit women in the ski industy have to deal with

And you know the kinds of people who are the worst?

Men who prance around saying they support women who ski, yet somehow, in someway, believe their opinion is more valid than a women's. In women's skiing.

Your opinion is LESS VALID get over it

You are fucking physco who can't admit you're wrong
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And there we have it...

Also obligatory

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post
 
13908237:skiponie said:
Alright now, how about we hear from a woman who is a competitive skier who is actually affected by this? This applies to everyone who has commented on this thread.

I was just recently at Kicking Horse Mountain for the Freeride World Qualifier 4*. Men won $1k and women won $600. In Canadian dollars... When I saw this I was pretty disappointed to say the least... And most comps are like this. And yes, I do understand how slopestyle or halfpipe comps are different blah blah blah...... BUT when we are comparing things.... same same, but different.

All of these gals on the FWQ work just as hard, if not harder than a lot of the guys. We also have to fork out THE SAME ENTRY FEE even though there are more men that compete than girls, but we don't get the same winnings? That's what really gets me worked up the most is the fact we have to spend the same amount of money to get there; shit if not more if you think about it, yet we don't get the same winnings. And these comps are expensive AF. 4* entry fee is usually around $200 give or take. We don't get lift tickets with that either. Put tickets on top of that, ranging anywhere from $150-$350 depending on the resort and how many days you're skiing...... that shit adds up. Plus we do at least 5 or 6 comps a year!

And if your argument is "more guys are competing therefore they should get more money" then try being a fucking woman and put all of your effort and money into what you love to do (skiing) then go win and be stoked to only find out that you're getting less money because " there's just more guys competing". It's bullshit and In case you are questioning my credibility, I'm right up there with the top women, currently ranked in 5th on the FWQ with a bunch of podiums under my belt along with some really ripping ladies who absolutely SEND IT whether you think so or not.

And for us on the FWQ, that shit hardly ever get televised. So there's really no reason to say that it's simply people don't watch the women.

And to those of you comparing the amount of effort people put into this sport to fucking basketball and school grades? Are you kidding me? Real nice comparison, skiing is TOTALLY like those. If we are making comparisons like that, go ahead and go try men's gymnastics, cause I know for a fact you'll get your ass whooped by a female gymnast (wow a female dominated sport?! what?!?!)

Also I absolutely love the fact that men are making decisions for women. You guys obviously know SO MUCH about what it's like to be a woman in a professional sport that has always been dominated by the male athlete, who really couldn't give a shit cause they're not affected by it, literally NEVER affected by it until now. So here's a big fuck you to all you guys who are doing just that. Sitting there on your asses festering on NS cause "oh god forbid I get a little less money cause WOMEN are actually changing something for themselves that been a problem for a long time" (oh no!!! how terrifying!!)

That was my small input, yet I could go on and on about it since I'm actually affected by it. It's easy to say shit when it's not affecting you (I'm talking to you "MEN") And yes please go ahead and say shit like "ooh she's triggered" because yes, I am triggered cause this is bullshit. Thank you.

**This post was edited on Mar 25th 2018 at 2:01:01pm
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Also compete in the collegiate tour. A lot of the 2* events at least are clear that there is more money on the men's side.....full list of 75 riders and then a 75 person waitlist. Woman's category struggled to get 25 girls.

No clue on the 4*s though. Is there a larger woman pool for those?
 
13908033:Quaff said:
In Kings and Queens of Corbet's, Karl Fostvedt did a 7 off the nose of Corbet's... Stomped it, backflip at 500mph and then dropped a 15 foot cliff in the same run. The winner of the women's did a shifty. Whoever is the best at skiing should get the most $$$. If girls start hucking some crazy shit, hurray! They get more money and everyone is happy I guess.
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Was gonna mention the corbets comp as a relevant recent example. Several days AFTER the comp, JHMR raised the prize purse for top 3 women so it would be equal to the men. So Caite was awarded the same $8k as Karl for the above described runs. Caite competed against 6 amateur women while Karl was against a stacked field of like 20 including several pros.

“When we originally split the prize money, we had invited an equal number of male and female competitors,” said Anna Cole, the resort’s spokeswoman. “We looked at it on a per-person basis based on how many showed up.” http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/jackson_hole_daily/local/pay-controversy-overshadows-corbet-s-competition/article_14dd413e-82c3-574b-9de8-ca5139c47a28.html

My opinion on whether or not equal pay for unequal competition aside-- Props to the women for successfully petitioning to get more pay out of JHMR. This sets the bar for a higher pay standard for future comps. Hopefully next year many more talented women will accept their invites and come throw down.
 
13908288:Profahoben_212 said:
Also compete in the collegiate tour. A lot of the 2* events at least are clear that there is more money on the men's side.....full list of 75 riders and then a 75 person waitlist. Woman's category struggled to get 25 girls.

No clue on the 4*s though. Is there a larger woman pool for those?
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The hard part about that is they put a cap on the amount of athletes who can sign up. The cap on the men (it varies with each event) is usually 60 and for the women the cap is usually 30. I haven't done too many of the collegiate events just cause most of them are 2*'s and a lot got canceled this year, but I'm not sure about the athlete cap on those events.

I could see our winnings being less if our entry fee was less money because of the cap men vs women, but we still have to pay the same entry fee.
 
13908277:emren said:
You're so self righteous you just wrote out this long ass response to a topic that is not relevant to you.

You are not a women. You do not compete in IFSA competitions. Not to mention, skiing is not gymnastics so why the comparison?
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Maybe you should hold your own comps? If women are so upset about the pay, why aren't they challenging the companies who put on these events through their own companies that pay the same for men and women. At the end of the day, your beef is with these few companies sooo... ya know, do something about it.
 
I really dont want to cop hate from my fellow women in this thread, but... i disagree with what you girls have said. I don't think we should be paid the same as men (most of the time). YES it sucks to pay the same entry fee, but i think fair is fair and if theres 5 women competing and 30 men, then we shouldn't get paid the same. and that isn't because of our vaginas, its just numbers. (This also means if there are 30 competitors aged 12-16 and only 20 aged 17-up then the younger kids should have a bigger prize purse!)

I think females and males competing on the world stage should be paid the same by their sponsors, because they're doing the same job. But as for prize purses, it doesn't make sense. It would be a bad business choice to offer the same amount of money to a smaller demographic as the bigger one. I am trying my hardest from my modest spot in our community to encourage more girls to join in, i love womens skiing and of all the ski videos i watch right now, 75% are of women. BUT until our participation is the same, we cant expect the same return. My solution is GET MORE WOMEN INTO FREESKIING.
 
13908306:skiponie said:
The hard part about that is they put a cap on the amount of athletes who can sign up. The cap on the men (it varies with each event) is usually 60 and for the women the cap is usually 30. I haven't done too many of the collegiate events just cause most of them are 2*'s and a lot got canceled this year, but I'm not sure about the athlete cap on those events.

I could see our winnings being less if our entry fee was less money because of the cap men vs women, but we still have to pay the same entry fee.
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Yes they put a cap on it, but they often struggle to fill those spots. Meanwhile the mens sign ups are often overflowing. The targhee comp filled up for men in less than ten minutes, a solid half of my team was not able to compete because of this. Not sure if women filled up. Could have... im not sure, but there isnt nearly the competition to get into the comps as there is in the mens....and if they were to have more spots for women, theres a high chance it wouldnt fill up.

Everyone pays the same fee, of course, because everyone is paying for the judges, the tents, and the renting of an entire section of the mountain which is often a ton of money. Everyone is using the same services
 
13908377:NSwidow said:
My solution is GET MORE WOMEN INTO FREESKIING.
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This is where the problem lies. How do you get them out there and interested in contests? I am sure the industry is asking the same thing. However, gear keeps flying off the shelves and I cant seem to find a good selection of mens outwear because there are 3x more womens gear in most stores.

I think the culture image of skiing sucks and sucks a big one. I think its a by product of the advertisement and expectations. All we see today on media is crazy athletes doing super human feats that discourages low self esteemed people. Competing always sounds so scary, that most people cop out and wont even give it a chance. I get this all the time when I ask a girl to join me in any skiing contest: "NO! Im not good enough" before I have time to finish asking the question. Hell, my mom wont even want to ski with me claiming that all I do are cliffs hucks and flips. It makes sense, I only send the best shots; never the foggy shit-fuck days where I struggle.

Competitive skiing needs to soften its image. It works well for men; throw a physical challenge and some money in the middle, they will put on a show for it. Men will always be interested in that kind of behavior, its physical. Women dont get off on that as much. To sell a contest, you have to put it out as a group gathering...or a party to see where are you at in your skills comparing to your friends. Small, grassroots contests seem to get this.
 
13908277:emren said:
You're so self righteous you just wrote out this long ass response to a topic that is not relevant to you.

You are not a women. You do not compete in IFSA competitions. Not to mention, skiing is not gymnastics so why the comparison?
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As much as I want to appreciate the value of a woman commenting in this thread, you seem entirely unable to piece together a rational response and base an argument in anything other than raging emotion.

We get it. Men aren't qualified to speak for you on your experience as a competitive woman struggling to make a living doing a sport you love. Though any human with a shred of empathy (and elementary reading comprehension) does literally have a clue what you're going through - you explicitly told everyone.

Men are, however, qualified to theorize how this gap relates to capitalism and social inequality. Unless you've got a degree in business, social sciences or women's studies and you're just saving up some academic hammers I'd say we're all on fairly equal footing here. This is a forum for speculation and discussion and though I can't speak for everyone else I'd be receptive to any thoughtful critique.

I also don't see why you won't acknowledge how 25 women paying $200 each generates different revenue than 75 men paying $200 each. Especially when the competitions happen in isolation of each other. In a simplified world, you pay $200 to compete against 24 other people for $5k, dude pays $200 to compete against 74 people for $15k. More women compete, more money available for the winner. Sponsorship money can come into play to help even things out, but even that return on investment is surely proportional to how many people see the advertising.

Without actively working to get more young girls stoked and comfortable pushing themselves skiing, deepening the pool of interest/talent and getting more relatable female viewers/fans to bring in cashflow, you're essentially asking for philanthropic donations based in social conscience.

If this is all you're after I bet you could rally for some extra financial support from power-female companies who'd be stoked to represent girls in competition. There's no shortage of incredible, strong females in my world who'd totally be down to celebrate girls killing it in the mountains.
 
13908388:freestyler540 said:
This is where the problem lies. How do you get them out there and interested in contests? I am sure the industry is asking the same thing. However, gear keeps flying off the shelves and I cant seem to find a good selection of mens outwear because there are 3x more womens gear in most stores.

I think the culture image of skiing sucks and sucks a big one. I think its a by product of the advertisement and expectations. All we see today on media is crazy athletes doing super human feats that discourages low self esteemed people. Competing always sounds so scary, that most people cop out and wont even give it a chance. I get this all the time when I ask a girl to join me in any skiing contest: "NO! Im not good enough" before I have time to finish asking the question. Hell, my mom wont even want to ski with me claiming that all I do are cliffs hucks and flips. It makes sense, I only send the best shots; never the foggy shit-fuck days where I struggle.

Competitive skiing needs to soften its image. It works well for men; throw a physical challenge and some money in the middle, they will put on a show for it. Men will always be interested in that kind of behavior, its physical. Women dont get off on that as much. To sell a contest, you have to put it out as a group gathering...or a party to see where are you at in your skills comparing to your friends. Small, grassroots contests seem to get this.
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It's good for the sport to get more people out. I hate blaming the comps though. "Comps look hard so people are scared"

There are plenty of things people do knowing they have no chance of being at the level they see. We need to find more ways to engage people. I think the smaller contests are great, but I think big contests get a bad rap because they're an easy target. I'd bet there are a fuckton more people who got into contests or skiing in general after seeing some of these big events than people who decided to take up knitting because comps made skiing look too hard.
 
13908391:theabortionator said:
It's good for the sport to get more people out. I hate blaming the comps though. "Comps look hard so people are scared"

There are plenty of things people do knowing they have no chance of being at the level they see. We need to find more ways to engage people. I think the smaller contests are great, but I think big contests get a bad rap because they're an easy target. I'd bet there are a fuckton more people who got into contests or skiing in general after seeing some of these big events than people who decided to take up knitting because comps made skiing look too hard.
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I was targetting the competitive scene and not skiing as a whole. Skiing as a whole is popular and everything is pretty equal on the gender line.

Increasing contest turnout in women categories would put contest skiing on more equal footing. Absolutely. Its not blaming the contests, contest organizers or athletes at all, but the culture that is put on. Im not saying advertisement of contest events should be focused on girls laughing and taking selfies, but finding ways to merge social gathering aspect as well as competition.

At the same time, OP does have a point. 9,000$ difference between genders is a joke for such a big event.
 
13910103:cannonballer said:
Did you just come out on NS?? Good for you bud. We're here to support you.
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Im out but its rarely relevant to anything on here. Figured since she was mad about my assumtions then trying to be big meany about my luck with girls, id mention.
 
1. Comps in freeskiing are inherently unfair. You are judging people on something that is subjective.

2. Having pre determined prizes just plays into the bureaucracy of a sport that is supposed to be about interpretation.

3. Things should be split into skill levels not gender or age. Tess and Ricky can both do 270s on why are we splitting them into different groups? They are at the same skill level. Why is Jack competing in the 15 and under when he can do dubs and no one else can? Sounds like that would suck for every other kid in that age group.

I honestly think that gender separation in skiing is lame. It perpetuates stereotypes that women can't be as good as men. In the end 95% of comps in skiing are just cookies cutter events with zero imagination that leaves a subjective sport in the hands of the status quo.

This might be off the topic at hand but I believe that the suppression of women has held back civilization, and still does. Humanity would be so much far ahead if we had total equality.

**This post was edited on Apr 1st 2018 at 4:17:46pm
 
13910986:ParryWithAnA said:
1. Comps in freeskiing are inherently unfair. You are judging people on something that is subjective.

2. Having pre determined prizes just plays into the bureaucracy of a sport that is supposed to be about interpretation.

3. Things should be split into skill levels not gender or age. Tess and Ricky can both do 270s on why are we splitting them into different groups? They are at the same skill level. Why is Jack competing in the 15 and under when he can do dubs and no one else can? Sounds like that would suck for every other kid in that age group.

I honestly think that gender separation in skiing is lame. It perpetuates stereotypes that women can't be as good as men. In the end 95% of comps in skiing are just cookies cutter events with zero imagination that leaves a subjective sport in the hands of the status quo.

This might be off the topic at hand but I believe that the suppression of women has held back civilization, and still does. Humanity would be so much far ahead if we had total equality.

**This post was edited on Apr 1st 2018 total equality is a poor choice of words but i get that your going for all people treating other people equally and that I 100 percent agree with
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anyone watching the FWT ? snowboard chick just pretty much falling leafed the whole way down and didn't do a drop bigger than 6ft.. the quality of some of the girls at these events is disappointing..
 
I think it is fairly obvious to everyone that freeskiing is a male dominated sport, and with that the majority of advertisements (and therefore money) is going towards targeting a male consumer base. If males are pulling more views and more advertising dollars, I don't see how it is unfair that they are paid more than their less effective women advertising counterparts.

The day that women make companies more money from advertising in skiing, I won't have any problem paying them more than the men.
 
As someone who has created events and ran events for 15 years, I can tell you that giving larger prizes and acknowledging a category WILL bring more people out and increase the competition. I've personally done it with Women's categories and Snowboard categories. You need to encourage people.

Why does skill determine how much someone should get if they still won the contest? Just because someone won with a 7 in one category doesn't mean they deserve less than someone who won with a double in another. The fact is they won, that's it. Should Simon Dumont have got less for x Games Big Air because he won with a double front flip and not something better?
 
13911448:hemlockjibber8 said:
Why does skill determine how much someone should get if they still won the contest? Just because someone won with a 7 in one category doesn't mean they deserve less than someone who won with a double in another.
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Skill determines the standard of the contest.. using your example, that would indicate a lesser skill/standard. Why would people be interested in watching something with a vast difference in skill level? Less viewers means less advertising means less money..

Womens skiing is probably the only womens event we watch because we like skiing.

But the same can be said for other sports.. Why dont you watch womens soccer/basketball/hockey etc... because the standard is shit and its boring to watch.

Why dont the wNBA winners get paid the same as the NBA winners? they won the same comp so they should get paid the same? no..
 
If there isn't money to pay men and women equally, there's not enough money to run the event, regardless of the industry or whether its a sport or a job.

Referencing the numbers skiponie quoted from the 4* FWQ at Kicking Horse, it should be no problem to come up with $400 more to pay the first place woman the same, especially for an event of that caliber. As has already been said, having such a glaring discrepancy in winnings, regardless of dollar value, sends a blatant message that the persons being paid less are valued less. There are much larger social shifts that must happen for women to be more involved in skiing and sports in general, but pay equality is a very concrete thing the ski industry could do to move things in the right direction. Someone having a problem with being paid less is not proof they aren't doing it for the love of skiing. The fact they are likely sacrificing financial stability and risking life and limb throughout the ski season is a testament to anyone's love of the sport. Don't try to connect remuneration with someone's love of skiing. The people who ARE putting the money before the sport are the industry people who refuse to come up with an equal purse for an under-represented group of people who are putting in the same amount of work in the same conditions on the same courses. This is especially shortsighted, as giving female skiers more than they are paid now would boost their ability to market products, attend events and stay in the industry, encouraging girls to take up and stick with skiing, thereby increasing the market for skiing.
 
13910986:ParryWithAnA said:
1. Comps in freeskiing are inherently unfair. You are judging people on something that is subjective.

2. Having pre determined prizes just plays into the bureaucracy of a sport that is supposed to be about interpretation.

3. Things should be split into skill levels not gender or age. Tess and Ricky can both do 270s on why are we splitting them into different groups? They are at the same skill level. Why is Jack competing in the 15 and under when he can do dubs and no one else can? Sounds like that would suck for every other kid in that age group.

I honestly think that gender separation in skiing is lame. It perpetuates stereotypes that women can't be as good as men. In the end 95% of comps in skiing are just cookies cutter events with zero imagination that leaves a subjective sport in the hands of the status quo.

This might be off the topic at hand but I believe that the suppression of women has held back civilization, and still does. Humanity would be so much far ahead if we had total equality.

**This post was edited on Apr 1st 2018 at 4:17:46pm
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Thank you. This is some truth.
 
13910986:ParryWithAnA said:
1. Comps in freeskiing are inherently unfair. You are judging people on something that is subjective.

2. Having pre determined prizes just plays into the bureaucracy of a sport that is supposed to be about interpretation.

3. Things should be split into skill levels not gender or age. Tess and Ricky can both do 270s on why are we splitting them into different groups? They are at the same skill level. Why is Jack competing in the 15 and under when he can do dubs and no one else can? Sounds like that would suck for every other kid in that age group.

I honestly think that gender separation in skiing is lame. It perpetuates stereotypes that women can't be as good as men. In the end 95% of comps in skiing are just cookies cutter events with zero imagination that leaves a subjective sport in the hands of the status quo.

This might be off the topic at hand but I believe that the suppression of women has held back civilization, and still does. Humanity would be so much far ahead if we had total equality.

**This post was edited on Apr 1st 2018 at 4:17:46pm
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Andy, ya bloody nailed it mate.
 
13908385:Profahoben_212 said:
Everyone pays the same fee, of course, because everyone is paying for the judges, the tents, and the renting of an entire section of the mountain which is often a ton of money. Everyone is using the same services
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This. While I do think all those entry fees are a little steep in price, you are paying for judges, sometimes a cat, etc.

But as said above, I think it is kinda ridiculous they can't find an extra few hundred dollars to make the cash prize equal, especially for such a small event like the FWQ.

13910986:ParryWithAnA said:
This might be off the topic at hand but I believe that the suppression of women has held back civilization, and still does. Humanity would be so much far ahead if we had total equality.
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Turns out the most developed countries educate their women as well as the men. Strength in numbers..
 
13908193:casual said:
Yes exactly, anyone who does less spins, or less corks should get paid less. regardless of their sex.

Why? Are there actually crowds watching all these events? And not just friends and families, I mean people who wouldn’t be at the event if it were not for the event? Or watching it on tv or online? And if they are, is super insane trick more likely to bring that viewer to the resort as a customer than any other truck that the viewer probably can’t do anyways? Not all events are for advertisement. Some are just culture fostering events that show that something is happening at the hill. Yes xgames are an ad, but every event has unequal prize purses.

So why does a better trick deserve more money?
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I feel you. As a judge at these events I always try to equal out the pay but the resorts won’t budge. Next year, I will be making sure it’s better.

13908237:skiponie said:
Alright now, how about we hear from a woman who is a competitive skier who is actually affected by this? This applies to everyone who has commented on this thread.

I was just recently at Kicking Horse Mountain for the Freeride World Qualifier 4*. Men won $1k and women won $600. In Canadian dollars... When I saw this I was pretty disappointed to say the least... And most comps are like this. And yes, I do understand how slopestyle or halfpipe comps are different blah blah blah...... BUT when we are comparing things.... same same, but different.

All of these gals on the FWQ work just as hard, if not harder than a lot of the guys. We also have to fork out THE SAME ENTRY FEE even though there are more men that compete than girls, but we don't get the same winnings? That's what really gets me worked up the most is the fact we have to spend the same amount of money to get there; shit if not more if you think about it, yet we don't get the same winnings. And these comps are expensive AF. 4* entry fee is usually around $200 give or take. We don't get lift tickets with that either. Put tickets on top of that, ranging anywhere from $150-$350 depending on the resort and how many days you're skiing...... that shit adds up. Plus we do at least 5 or 6 comps a year!

And if your argument is "more guys are competing therefore they should get more money" then try being a fucking woman and put all of your effort and money into what you love to do (skiing) then go win and be stoked to only find out that you're getting less money because " there's just more guys competing". It's bullshit and In case you are questioning my credibility, I'm right up there with the top women, currently ranked in 5th on the FWQ with a bunch of podiums under my belt along with some really ripping ladies who absolutely SEND IT whether you think so or not.

And for us on the FWQ, that shit hardly ever get televised. So there's really no reason to say that it's simply people don't watch the women.

And to those of you comparing the amount of effort people put into this sport to fucking basketball and school grades? Are you kidding me? Real nice comparison, skiing is TOTALLY like those. If we are making comparisons like that, go ahead and go try men's gymnastics, cause I know for a fact you'll get your ass whooped by a female gymnast (wow a female dominated sport?! what?!?!)

Also I absolutely love the fact that men are making decisions for women. You guys obviously know SO MUCH about what it's like to be a woman in a professional sport that has always been dominated by the male athlete, who really couldn't give a shit cause they're not affected by it, literally NEVER affected by it until now. So here's a big fuck you to all you guys who are doing just that. Sitting there on your asses festering on NS cause "oh god forbid I get a little less money cause WOMEN are actually changing something for themselves that been a problem for a long time" (oh no!!! how terrifying!!)

That was my small input, yet I could go on and on about it since I'm actually affected by it. It's easy to say shit when it's not affecting you (I'm talking to you "MEN") And yes please go ahead and say shit like "ooh she's triggered" because yes, I am triggered cause this is bullshit. Thank you.

**This post was edited on Mar 25th 2018 at 2:01:01pm
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Seems like a whole lot of crying going on for no reason. They got their own bracket to race for something rather than getting there shit kicked in being put with the men for this event. But hey its 2018.
 
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