Origins of biblical scripture

... and because God has miraculously kept the bible from straying in meaning from version to version and language to language, polygamy must be okay today as well, right? Either that or the creator has one hell of an precognitive internal social forecaster.
 
Alright, we need to seriously be done here or start another thread (or threads) to cover this topic, its getting so out of hand I might hide this for a while until new threads are made.

My closing argument on this subject that has ballooned into an enormous topic is that by my eyes, religion and belief in a higher unprovable power is a purely human concept, and thus, is subject to human culture and human error, far from being ultimate an infallible as such a purported creator within would construct. That is to say, human make mistakes. Its part of our nature. Two of the greatest achievements our minds can grasp are the concept of scientific process and the ability to always question what we think we know. These two concepts alone have been responsible for some of the greatest achievements of humanity.

Putting aside antiquated holdovers from more uncertain times, we have a developing, but sturdy grasp of what makes our world work. We always have a thirst to answer the unanswerable, but be wary of the side that claims to have all the answers.
 
this is a really good question. as i´ve grown to an age where i am mature enough to question what i´ve been taught and come up with/grasp new concepts, i´ve done a lot of thinking about stuff like this. religion, what happens after death, etc. i am a pretty devout christian, but i feel that there has to be a bigger picture. first of all, evolution happened. but my main struggle to figure out is the belief that many christians have that the only way to heaven is through christ. i can`t see a loving god sending a native brazilian tribesman to hell when he has never even heard of jesus. or sending an old hindu man to hell after he lived a life of kindness and love. all in all i think that the concepts of god and the afterlife, in the grand scheme of everything, are far too complex to be grasped or articulated by human minds. i´ll stick to my catholic/christian beliefs, but i also try to have an open mind and realize that i´m a speck of dust in the grand scheme of things, and for me to try to understand the most complex idea in the history of man is quite pointless.
 
exactly the point is that if you were born in saudi arabia you'd be practicing islam, if you were born in india you'd be practicing hinduism, and if you were born in the bible belt of the united states you'd be a narrow minded bible thumping "evolution-caused-the-holocaust" (hahahah)t evangelical who accepts a book written thousands of years ago as unmistakenable fact. its sad really.

i like to say Man created God in his image...

theres no point in trying to answer the origins of the universe because its something bigger than ourselves. we dont even know what goes on in our body most of the time. we dont even know why we sleep and we spend a good third of our lives in bed.
 
I agree with everything you said, except for "theres no point in trying to answer the origins of the universe..."
I think it's an inherently human question to ask. Whether we'll actually ANSWER those questions is another matter all together, but to ask is what makes us so special.
 
there is nothing wrong with defending your beliefs to the point where you are actually listening to the opposite side's arguments, and attempting to comprehend the argument being made against you. As long as you're open to the possibility that you might be wrong, everything is OK.

BUT when you're so entrenched in your beliefs that you grant no possibility of your error, we're in trouble. You've probably missed a great deal of this thread. Joshua has said at one point the idea of evolution caused the holocaust -- there is something wrong with that. There have been a few times where he talks about having a good debate about the topic, but he's failed to realize that he's not playing fairly. It's not an open and honest game when one side does not acknowledge the validity of other side's evidence, and ignores the criticisms made against their own positions.

This is why it is totally fair to call him out on this. He has a fail-safe against any argument, that no one else enjoys... namely that any evidence presented that harms his view is merely the work of the devil, attempting to dissuade him from God.The result is that he has the ability to believe whatever he wants -- this sort of freedom is really dangerous to everyone. The rest of us are bound by the consequences of our actions, of our beliefs, knowing that we might be wrong. I simply point to the countless moments where religion has caused blood shed -- had the crusaders thought they might be wrong, the accusers of witches thought they might be wrong, those in a Jihad, the whole business in Israel, 16th century France, 30 years war in 17th century, ...this list really goes on for a while... If all of these people could have accepted the idea that they might not have it right, they would never have been able to justify the killing they did, or at the very least would have had to put their real motives out on the table for everyone to see.

Fundamentalism is dangerous, (some argue it's religious moderates who allow and defend the fundamentalists right to defending their beliefs that is the real danger but that's a whole nother thread) and it deserves to be called out.

Mull this one over, it's a good summary of what i've just said:

In the world, there will always be good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things, but for a good person to do evil -- that takes religion.
 
you know who goes to heaven and who doesnt? tell me some names of people who were accetpted in the last moments of their lives? any serial killers coming to mind?

didnt think so
 
zzzskierzzz mentioned on one he knew of earlier. The guy was about to get excecuted and 5 min before he accepted Christ.
 
for my high school diploma i had to write a paper (i wrote 76 pages instead of 20) about a self-chosen topic. well i wanted to write my own philosophy down, so i called the topic "the sense of life. just some random facts out of it:

1) the bible is a book consisting of other books. the first christian council in nicae decided which books are "divine" and which arent.

2) the way prophets describe their initiation in the old testament sounds like modern day people would describe an UFO. ancient indian mythology talks also about stuff that sounds to us like spaceships, astronauts, etc... (same with hopis, egypts, ...)

3) the bible has tons of parallels to other ancient texts, most of which are older than the bible. so a lot of stuff was simply copied in order to make everyone believe in their god. same was in rome, when the romans occupied another tribe or country, they would include their gods into roman mythology (diana, dionysos,...). in the miracle where jesus increased the amount of fish and bread, the numbers are equal to those of a similar miracle by buddha. one of buddhas followers also was asked to walk on water and wasnt able to just like peter.

4) vatican made up some documents, which said that emperor konstantin had give them whole italy as a gift. when it was discovered as fake, they still acted like everything was true, although byzanz was called byzanz instead of konstantinopel.

they killed thousands of people for not converting all over the world in colonialisation. the vatican took those people their beliefs and culture and is now even saying that all south-american tribes were waiting desperately to be redeemed by the europeans. needless to say, that in reality, the spanish and portugese enslaved, raped and killed the indians instead.

5) religion is needed to control people and beware them, maybe even from themselves. but this was back then 2000 years ago. now we have REAL LAWS, that are enforced immediately by police and other governmental institutions.

so, idk, i just wrote that
 
but do we know if he got into heaven?

once you die, get a head count in heaven, come back to life, get on NS, and post your fidings in this thread, im gonna say that serial killers arent exactly "heaven material"
 
Cuz the bible says all you have to do is believe. John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave up his one and only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."It doesn't matter how great your sins are, when you accept Christ, he covers them all.
 
what sort of lesson is that....

you could rape, torture, and kill EVERY person on earth, but as long as you accept christ before you die, your covered?

great plan.
 
Could Joshua please answer this?
Also, Josh, do you know this guy/is he you?
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You can't go thru life knowing you need to except Christ and planning on doing it at the last second, that is very dangerous way to live.
 
But yes, if you did not know of Christ or were to ignorant to except him all thru life and did many terrible things, but at the end of your life realised what you had been doing was all wrong and you accept Christ, you will go to Heaven. Look at Paul, he arrested and even killed Christians. But he was converted and he went on to become one of the best missionary's ever
 
so youre not denying that it is possible to live that way. hitler, right before he kills himself, does the rosary a few times, then shoots himself.

i cannot wait to see if he is in heaven, because nobody was around to witness hitler's death except himself.

this is a flawed system if you can kill millions of people, than say i love you jesus h. christ a few times and you know what? maybe those millions of jews, maybe we can forget about that
 
again, gotta love those christian values. it doesnt matter how bad you fuck up, as long as you love jeebus in the end. its all good.
 
you think gay marriage is wrong??????????!!!!!!

i would have never guessed, seeing that you think evolution is a lie, and hitler's sins could potentially be forgiven
 
i think this whole thing could be settled if joshua took his nose out of the bible and had a little session with rosie palms. but the bible says thats wrong, so its not likely to be settled soon
 
It was this I wanted you to answer.
I've read through this whole thread, and you constantly avoid answering questions where you probably feel uncomfortable.
So answer this, and lets do as Mr. Rowan says and be done with this thread. Also let's not get side tracked onto gay marriage,
 
I said that if Hitler did repent and accept Jesus before he died he would be in Heaven now, but i doubt thats the case. Hmmmm i don't know where you could get nazi armbands. Your best bet would be to rob a museam probably. My dad did roof a shed the once that had all kinds of Nazi stuff inside
 
ill answer that question later i gotta go but ill be back. and dont think im just avoiding it i actually have to go.
 
I believe what i believe b/c i was raised a Christian and i see the truth in it. There is much evidence for God that you only realize once you become a Christian. My faith is far from blind. Do you think that people who get tortured and killed b/c they are Christians subject themselves to that for no good reason? Of course not. The evolution theory has many problems. I fail to see any flaws in Christianity or in the reliability of Bible. I do think about the validiity evolution, i just see all the problems in it, and all the evidence in nature that point toward design, and i realize it cannot be true
 
ya and somehow in my comments in my profile someone wrote "PRAISE JESUS" and it was not me who wrote that. Mods?
 
you just dug your own grave I want to help I really do, but your being a well no other way to put this a shitty Christian. your job is to share what the book says, you've done that. not everyone wants to belief it's ok. you need to follow Jesus to get in to heaven I will show any one how if they ask. but If I tell them about god and they don't want him just let it go, you did you job you told them they said no. it's ok stop being that guy on the street YOUR FILLED WITH SIN AND WILL BURN IN HELL your job is done sharing about god if some wants to talk about it fine. do you think god wants you to do it by aguing and force no it's be free will so let it go they don't want god it's fine.
 
im just answering their questions they have about why i believe what i believe, but i see what you mean. and i will officaly stop posting in this thread as of now
 
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