Origins of biblical scripture
- Thread starter GhostfaceKillah
- Start date
youRsmellA
Member
First, kid, lets get something straight. You don't know how to argue. You need to provide EVIDENCE to refute evolution. You have given us a couple links, but no one is gonna read a whole web page you link to. Take a SHORT relevant paragraph and put it in your post.
But, please keep adding your own utterly INSANE remarks too, they make me LOL.
But, please keep adding your own utterly INSANE remarks too, they make me LOL.
Now who did that, honestly?
Also, if you claim that the bible and religious doctrine has less flaws and explains better our word than scientific discovery... dude, I dunno what to tell you. I cant force you to open your eyes.
And earlier, you said that all people must except Jesus to go to heaven... how does one "except Jesus"?
Also, if you claim that the bible and religious doctrine has less flaws and explains better our word than scientific discovery... dude, I dunno what to tell you. I cant force you to open your eyes.
And earlier, you said that all people must except Jesus to go to heaven... how does one "except Jesus"?
tedmgee
Active member
i personally dont belvie in religiona nd stuff becuase back in the day someone crazy was in the desert and saw a mirage and said it was god and shit like that. i dont care if you belive or not but i dont like the people that spend their entire life on religion. they are wasting their life on somting that might not even exist. il think when you die you will not exist. like those night when you go to sleep then without a dream you wake up in the morning and it feels like you just went to bed like 5 mintues ago? i think it will be like that except forever. i might be right or i might be wrong idk. but i might be hypocritical but right before i die im going to pry just in case it is real.
Funnel
Active member
Josh, tell me the flaws in evolution, tell me where the flaws in evolution, don't say the whole idea is wrong because the bible is right. I want to know what part of evolution is incorrect, tell me what part is wrong. The EXACT part. If you can tell me the exact part that is wrong with it, I will no longer haggle you or call you out. Come on dude. This is a callout because you seemed to have no understanding of evolution earlier on. Where are the flaws?
casual
Active member
Not so.
The figure you offered would only be accurate if the NS population were a truly random sample. A website/forum devoted to an "aggressive" "action" sport does not suffice as an adequately diverse cross section of people.
I'd venture that there's a fairly strong correlation (NOT cause/effect relationship, of course) between heterosexuality and interest in a sport like freestyle/newschool skiing (particularly among men). I'm not saying that you can't be gay and ski, or partake in any other "extreme sport for that matter, obviously.
Conversely, if NS were a forum devoted to discussing interior decorating whose population was almost entirely male (as NS is), I'd guess that the actual figure would be higher. Picking up what I'm putting down?
......why did I quote this mostly irrelevant and inconsequential post out of every other post in this thread; and THEN offer an all together pointless and overly long rebuttal?
Well...............this thread fucking sucks, that's why!
You see, Joshua is an absolutely droolingly stupid twat (as evidenced by his seeming inability to communicate/grasp even the most basic of arguments/concepts respectively) whose worldview is little more than the product of his parent's and his pastor's ill-advised attempts at molding a "good christian". Unfortunately, doing so appears to come at the expense of molding a thoughtful and bright young man.
Now Josh.....by all means, practice your religion, embrace your faith, and feel free to pass it on to your own offspring (consequences be damned....but, I hope for your sake that they don't turn out to be gay. While the irony of such a twist of fate would be nothing short of poetic, I fear for the well being of such a person.).
However, if you truly believe that the "evidence" in support of Creationism outweighs the evidence that points to SOME version of evolution (I'll concede that Darwin didn't hit a homerun, and that we still have much to learn about our planet's history and our own emergence as a species), well.....you're truly and utterly brainwashed—willfully ignorant at the very least.
The figure you offered would only be accurate if the NS population were a truly random sample. A website/forum devoted to an "aggressive" "action" sport does not suffice as an adequately diverse cross section of people.
I'd venture that there's a fairly strong correlation (NOT cause/effect relationship, of course) between heterosexuality and interest in a sport like freestyle/newschool skiing (particularly among men). I'm not saying that you can't be gay and ski, or partake in any other "extreme sport for that matter, obviously.
Conversely, if NS were a forum devoted to discussing interior decorating whose population was almost entirely male (as NS is), I'd guess that the actual figure would be higher. Picking up what I'm putting down?
......why did I quote this mostly irrelevant and inconsequential post out of every other post in this thread; and THEN offer an all together pointless and overly long rebuttal?
Well...............this thread fucking sucks, that's why!
You see, Joshua is an absolutely droolingly stupid twat (as evidenced by his seeming inability to communicate/grasp even the most basic of arguments/concepts respectively) whose worldview is little more than the product of his parent's and his pastor's ill-advised attempts at molding a "good christian". Unfortunately, doing so appears to come at the expense of molding a thoughtful and bright young man.
Now Josh.....by all means, practice your religion, embrace your faith, and feel free to pass it on to your own offspring (consequences be damned....but, I hope for your sake that they don't turn out to be gay. While the irony of such a twist of fate would be nothing short of poetic, I fear for the well being of such a person.).
However, if you truly believe that the "evidence" in support of Creationism outweighs the evidence that points to SOME version of evolution (I'll concede that Darwin didn't hit a homerun, and that we still have much to learn about our planet's history and our own emergence as a species), well.....you're truly and utterly brainwashed—willfully ignorant at the very least.
Tasche
Active member
My conversation with a crazy christian bitch outside my office today...
*Here holding a sign that says "Jesus Saves"*
ME: "That's a smart man that Jesus, while everyone is up to their chest in debt Jesus is living the high life off his savings."
HER: "Jesus is the answer my friend!"
ME: "And what was the question?"
HER: "To your salvation!"
ME: "Oh, well I cashed in before the market crashed so I'm doing ok, you don't look to hot though, you should ask Jesus to lend you some of his savings."
HER: "What?"
MY BUDDY JAMES: "Fuck Jesus, he should have got his dad to bail us out."
HER: "..."
*Here holding a sign that says "Jesus Saves"*
ME: "That's a smart man that Jesus, while everyone is up to their chest in debt Jesus is living the high life off his savings."
HER: "Jesus is the answer my friend!"
ME: "And what was the question?"
HER: "To your salvation!"
ME: "Oh, well I cashed in before the market crashed so I'm doing ok, you don't look to hot though, you should ask Jesus to lend you some of his savings."
HER: "What?"
MY BUDDY JAMES: "Fuck Jesus, he should have got his dad to bail us out."
HER: "..."
casual
Active member
It takes a pair to fight with some religious looney?
I guess.....if you're 15 and think your hardcore for smoking cigs or something.
Don't be all butt hurt because your claim about clowning on some ree ree really wasn't that cool.
Lick "my pair". How's that for moral authority?
I guess.....if you're 15 and think your hardcore for smoking cigs or something.
Don't be all butt hurt because your claim about clowning on some ree ree really wasn't that cool.
Lick "my pair". How's that for moral authority?
skiminnesota
Active member
wow.......... sounds like someone needs an attitude adjustment and diversity break... (you) classless...
saskskier
Active member
I cannot speak for Joshua, but I'll see if I can give some kind of answer for myself.
I've definitely thought about this before, although perhaps not as much as maybe I should or perhaps not as much as you think I should. I've wondered what would happen if I was in fact practicing the wrong religion. I can't say I have much credibility though. I didn't go on a search of the worlds religions and after exhaustive study return to Christianity. I don't have any problems with remaining firm in my faith though. I am not perfect though. My interpretations of what the bible has to say aren't perfect, but I try to study it and see what I can apply to my life. If I'm wrong in the end and another belief system is right I suppose I'm screwed.
I can't say I've ever though of becoming an athiest though. I feel that "spirituality" and the desire to have some kind of god or creator or whatever found in everywhere around the world and in every culture is too overwhelming to rule out the possibility of there being no god at all. If I'm wrong in the end and there is no God, I don't think I've lost anything. I lived my life as a good person, worked hard and had fun. What more can you ask for.
At this point in my life I am young, healthy, have tons of friends and generally enjoy life as much as I can. It's easy for me to trust in a God who claims to love me and so of right now, I don't know if there is anything that would cause me to question my faith. Does that mean there is nothing out there that will bring me to that point? Absolutely not. I hope and trust that whatever situation I find myself in, I will be able to remain strong in my faith.
I suspect I probably haven't given a fantastic answer, but I thought I'd say something seeing as how Joshua seems to be avoiding it.
I've definitely thought about this before, although perhaps not as much as maybe I should or perhaps not as much as you think I should. I've wondered what would happen if I was in fact practicing the wrong religion. I can't say I have much credibility though. I didn't go on a search of the worlds religions and after exhaustive study return to Christianity. I don't have any problems with remaining firm in my faith though. I am not perfect though. My interpretations of what the bible has to say aren't perfect, but I try to study it and see what I can apply to my life. If I'm wrong in the end and another belief system is right I suppose I'm screwed.
I can't say I've ever though of becoming an athiest though. I feel that "spirituality" and the desire to have some kind of god or creator or whatever found in everywhere around the world and in every culture is too overwhelming to rule out the possibility of there being no god at all. If I'm wrong in the end and there is no God, I don't think I've lost anything. I lived my life as a good person, worked hard and had fun. What more can you ask for.
At this point in my life I am young, healthy, have tons of friends and generally enjoy life as much as I can. It's easy for me to trust in a God who claims to love me and so of right now, I don't know if there is anything that would cause me to question my faith. Does that mean there is nothing out there that will bring me to that point? Absolutely not. I hope and trust that whatever situation I find myself in, I will be able to remain strong in my faith.
I suspect I probably haven't given a fantastic answer, but I thought I'd say something seeing as how Joshua seems to be avoiding it.
pmills
Active member
I appreciate the honesty.. I'll tell you my question was more about the belief in the literal interpretation of the book. I can understand why some people have beliefs such as yourself, but when people think that the king James version of the bible is the literal word of God, that the earth was created in 6 Gregorian calendar days, there's a world of difference between you two.
I will say, even still, being an atheist does not preclude you from marveling at the amazing thing we understand life to be. To me, when you ascribe this experience we call life to the creation of a God, it loses the magnificence. Obviously this is really just in the context of the Christian faith, to pinch someone's quote when you think about it, we are both atheists -- I just extend it to one more God.
If you're interested in suggested points of view to investigate, i'll tell you one of my heroes is Douglas Adams:
if you feel like you've got a long attention span, and want to understand what i mean about marveling at life as it is see:
a medium attention span and to understand the artificial organic god created by man:
a short attention span on how we have a skewed perception and how we began to believe in God:
I will say, even still, being an atheist does not preclude you from marveling at the amazing thing we understand life to be. To me, when you ascribe this experience we call life to the creation of a God, it loses the magnificence. Obviously this is really just in the context of the Christian faith, to pinch someone's quote when you think about it, we are both atheists -- I just extend it to one more God.
If you're interested in suggested points of view to investigate, i'll tell you one of my heroes is Douglas Adams:
if you feel like you've got a long attention span, and want to understand what i mean about marveling at life as it is see:
a medium attention span and to understand the artificial organic god created by man:
a short attention span on how we have a skewed perception and how we began to believe in God:
casual
Active member
Despite your trepidation, I think you have indeed given a fantastic answer.
What's refreshing about your stance, is your humility. Your acknowledgement of—gasp—potentially being WRONG, is just a fucking delight.
I think one of the largest contributors to the venom that seems to permeate every "god debate" is the arrogance and refusal to consider any other point of view that seems to live in members of both sides.
I for one disagree with your views, and I consider myself an atheist; albeit a decidedly "non-militant" or embittered one. The truth is that I have no clue as to whether a god actually exists. I do however "suspect" that if there is a god, he's quite a sight different than the portrayal provided by the Bible, or any other "Holy Book". I suppose the two thoughts that constantly enter my mind when considering god and religion are:
1.) How could a human be expected to understand the nature of a supposed creator any more than a birdhouse that I made in 9th grade be expected to understand me. Thus, I tend to dismiss "man's" definitive ideas on God.
and
2.) Would God really punish a good person who lived an honest and righteous life simply for not "believing"? What if that person lived in a remote area and never even heard the name Jesus Christ? That person's just fucked? I don't like that idea.
Both of those questions, coupled with the idea that there are "conflicting" religions each with their own thoroughly convinced followers, has led me to believe that there is probably no god; or at least in the sense that most people think of him/her.
BUT, like you my friend, if I was presented with evidence that contradicted my ideas and suggested that God did exist in the Judeo-Christian form, I'd accept that. In other words, I don't cling to my thoughts like some terrified psycho.
However, I do not know for sure. Either way, I think I'm a good person and if I was somehow punished for a lack of faith (which seems SO reasonable given the history of religion and it's devotees), well...I think that's just fucked up and maybe I don't want to be in the company of such a force.
What I AM sure of though, is that much of what is written in the bible is, forgive me, horse shit. At least when people attempt to read it literally. As an allegory and when looked at in a metaphorical sense, I think the bible (along with pretty much every "spiritual guidebook"), has plenty to offer. It's when people start taking the most batty and fantastical passages as, pardon the pun, "gospel", religion and religious folk get pretty scary.
In my opinion, Joshua is a prime example of just that.
What's refreshing about your stance, is your humility. Your acknowledgement of—gasp—potentially being WRONG, is just a fucking delight.
I think one of the largest contributors to the venom that seems to permeate every "god debate" is the arrogance and refusal to consider any other point of view that seems to live in members of both sides.
I for one disagree with your views, and I consider myself an atheist; albeit a decidedly "non-militant" or embittered one. The truth is that I have no clue as to whether a god actually exists. I do however "suspect" that if there is a god, he's quite a sight different than the portrayal provided by the Bible, or any other "Holy Book". I suppose the two thoughts that constantly enter my mind when considering god and religion are:
1.) How could a human be expected to understand the nature of a supposed creator any more than a birdhouse that I made in 9th grade be expected to understand me. Thus, I tend to dismiss "man's" definitive ideas on God.
and
2.) Would God really punish a good person who lived an honest and righteous life simply for not "believing"? What if that person lived in a remote area and never even heard the name Jesus Christ? That person's just fucked? I don't like that idea.
Both of those questions, coupled with the idea that there are "conflicting" religions each with their own thoroughly convinced followers, has led me to believe that there is probably no god; or at least in the sense that most people think of him/her.
BUT, like you my friend, if I was presented with evidence that contradicted my ideas and suggested that God did exist in the Judeo-Christian form, I'd accept that. In other words, I don't cling to my thoughts like some terrified psycho.
However, I do not know for sure. Either way, I think I'm a good person and if I was somehow punished for a lack of faith (which seems SO reasonable given the history of religion and it's devotees), well...I think that's just fucked up and maybe I don't want to be in the company of such a force.
What I AM sure of though, is that much of what is written in the bible is, forgive me, horse shit. At least when people attempt to read it literally. As an allegory and when looked at in a metaphorical sense, I think the bible (along with pretty much every "spiritual guidebook"), has plenty to offer. It's when people start taking the most batty and fantastical passages as, pardon the pun, "gospel", religion and religious folk get pretty scary.
In my opinion, Joshua is a prime example of just that.
saskskier
Active member
I really don't know what to think of literal interpretation vs. well.... not literal interpretation. When it comes to things like creation.... I don't know and I don't really care. I believe God had a hand in it. I don't know how He did it and I'm ok with that. I don't think it's blind ignorance. I think it happened one way or another and that's all I need to know. Ha ha ha. I somehow managed to steer it back to creation again. I apologize to all.
As for life, the universe and everything ( I haven't seen any of Adams' lectures, but I'm a huge fan of the Hitchhikers Guide and can for sure see the athiestic undertones. Ha ha. Good times.) I don't know enough about anything to try and make any kind of explanation. I look at the vast beauty of space, the power of a crazy thunderstorm, the majesty of the mountains and the intricacy (biological, social, emotional, etc, etc) of an living thing and I find myself asking how it could possibly be anything but God. Just my train of thought.
Sometime, when I've got some spare time I'll try to try to get on those Douglas Adams videos.
As for life, the universe and everything ( I haven't seen any of Adams' lectures, but I'm a huge fan of the Hitchhikers Guide and can for sure see the athiestic undertones. Ha ha. Good times.) I don't know enough about anything to try and make any kind of explanation. I look at the vast beauty of space, the power of a crazy thunderstorm, the majesty of the mountains and the intricacy (biological, social, emotional, etc, etc) of an living thing and I find myself asking how it could possibly be anything but God. Just my train of thought.
Sometime, when I've got some spare time I'll try to try to get on those Douglas Adams videos.
saskskier
Active member
I think a lot of people have a terribly misguided perception of who God is, but I also think He is as He is described in the Bible but at the same time far beyond what we are capably of understanding. How we as humans have interpreted these descriptions and ideas over the years have brought terrible things upon far too many people. When it really comes down to it all God asks me as a believer to do is to love God and love others. That's it, that's all.
As one who loves God I want to become more like Him so that means doing some things, not doing others and perhaps acting a certain way.
Think of it like all the little kids that love T-Wall. They all wear clothes that are too big on them, have Full Tilts and have figured out how to do 450 pretzels. Is there anything stopping them from say wearing Mountain Hardware gear, going touring and never hitting another rail in their life? No, but they won't because that isn't what want T-Wall does.
1) I don't understand God myself, but I don't worry about trying because like you said, how is my birdhouse supposed to understand me?
2) I really don't know how to answer. The bible clearly says that we must accept Jesus to gain access to heaven. What does that mean for people who live better lives than me or people who have never heard of Jesus? I have no idea and think that's between them and God to deal with. I have a sneaking suspicion though that God understands where people are coming from and where they are at.
I agree that people who are overzealous, especially when they are un or misinformed do way more damage than good, regardless of what they believe in or stand up for. I for one believe the "gospel", but I promise I'm going going to be the guy stuffing it down your throat or running around with a megaphone preaching fire and brimstone. Not my style. Ha ha. I enjoy good, civilized debate and discussion though.
Also.... DEFINITELY THE MOST EPIC POST HIJACK EVER! Ha ha ha.
As one who loves God I want to become more like Him so that means doing some things, not doing others and perhaps acting a certain way.
Think of it like all the little kids that love T-Wall. They all wear clothes that are too big on them, have Full Tilts and have figured out how to do 450 pretzels. Is there anything stopping them from say wearing Mountain Hardware gear, going touring and never hitting another rail in their life? No, but they won't because that isn't what want T-Wall does.
1) I don't understand God myself, but I don't worry about trying because like you said, how is my birdhouse supposed to understand me?
2) I really don't know how to answer. The bible clearly says that we must accept Jesus to gain access to heaven. What does that mean for people who live better lives than me or people who have never heard of Jesus? I have no idea and think that's between them and God to deal with. I have a sneaking suspicion though that God understands where people are coming from and where they are at.
I agree that people who are overzealous, especially when they are un or misinformed do way more damage than good, regardless of what they believe in or stand up for. I for one believe the "gospel", but I promise I'm going going to be the guy stuffing it down your throat or running around with a megaphone preaching fire and brimstone. Not my style. Ha ha. I enjoy good, civilized debate and discussion though.
Also.... DEFINITELY THE MOST EPIC POST HIJACK EVER! Ha ha ha.
casual
Active member
You touched on another important piece:
Evangelizing. Fuck.
The fact that you're secure in your beliefs, yet don't feel compelled to make sure that everyone within earshot is not only aware of them, but adopts them as well, means that you and I can coexist in perfect accord.
I truly, truly don't care WHAT someone believes; particularly when those beliefs tend to lend themselves to responsible and courteous conduct—which I find many Christians embody. The problem for me arises when my beliefs, or lack thereof, are attacked.
Do I find some of the Christian dogma, beliefs, and rituals bizarre? Yes. Do I think that holding such beliefs or partaking in such rituals is inherently detrimental? Nope. Do i think that the overly rigid and literal application of these beliefs has done harm? Absolutely.
At the end of the day, I'm unsure what the "net effect" of religion has been. On one hand, it's given millions a sense of purpose and comfort, and provided a moral code that, if followed, leads to a more harmonious world for everyone. On the other hand, horrible, horrible deeds have been committed in the name of religion. I'm left to wonder whether these atrocities would have taken place without the existence of religion.
I don't have the answers, but I do know that I'm reeeeeaaaaally turned off to the idea of organized religion by it's highly visible and unscrupulous ambassadors. Maybe that's unfair, but hey....I'm only human, and I call 'em like I see 'em.
Evangelizing. Fuck.
The fact that you're secure in your beliefs, yet don't feel compelled to make sure that everyone within earshot is not only aware of them, but adopts them as well, means that you and I can coexist in perfect accord.
I truly, truly don't care WHAT someone believes; particularly when those beliefs tend to lend themselves to responsible and courteous conduct—which I find many Christians embody. The problem for me arises when my beliefs, or lack thereof, are attacked.
Do I find some of the Christian dogma, beliefs, and rituals bizarre? Yes. Do I think that holding such beliefs or partaking in such rituals is inherently detrimental? Nope. Do i think that the overly rigid and literal application of these beliefs has done harm? Absolutely.
At the end of the day, I'm unsure what the "net effect" of religion has been. On one hand, it's given millions a sense of purpose and comfort, and provided a moral code that, if followed, leads to a more harmonious world for everyone. On the other hand, horrible, horrible deeds have been committed in the name of religion. I'm left to wonder whether these atrocities would have taken place without the existence of religion.
I don't have the answers, but I do know that I'm reeeeeaaaaally turned off to the idea of organized religion by it's highly visible and unscrupulous ambassadors. Maybe that's unfair, but hey....I'm only human, and I call 'em like I see 'em.
Vikingskier
Member
same here and Jesus doesnt decide who gets in Heaven on if they give their life yes it does save you but i beleive he decides on whats really in your heart and who knows if that guy really gave his life.
.j.Scrilla
Member
Lol didn't anyone teach you lot not to talk about religion or politics! I have laughed hard at this thread!
Tasche
Active member
I have heard people say "trying to understand why god does what he does it like trying to explain how a TV works to an ant"
Well isn't the inverse true. Isn't an ant trying to explain its hopes and dreams and prayers to a human insane. And how much remorse do you feel when you crush an ant?
Also think about this, do you remember about 2 years before you were born? That's pretty much what death is like.
Well isn't the inverse true. Isn't an ant trying to explain its hopes and dreams and prayers to a human insane. And how much remorse do you feel when you crush an ant?
Also think about this, do you remember about 2 years before you were born? That's pretty much what death is like.