ashamedkrew
Active member
because they cant all be right. it doesnt work that way. religion isnt the concept. just saying that you believe in something cuz it gives you a fuzzy little feeling inside is nowhere close to the concept of true faith
Origins of biblical scripture
- Thread starter GhostfaceKillah
- Start date
joshua
Active member
He always was. It is something we cannot fully understand right now. You will say the same thing about evolution i know. But God is all powerful. He can be just there. In your make belief universe, there is no God, and nothing as powerful as God. In your theory, everything must come from somewhere. Those objects could not just be there. A little confusing i know but think about for a while before you dismiss the thought
jerad
Active member
Dude, you've clearly demonstrated the following:
1. You don't understand basic Biology.
2. You fail to recognize and adhere to the laws of physics, geology, astrophysics.
3. You don't even understand the founding roots of your own religion (You said previously that Christianity started "Waaaaaayyyy" before Jesus - WRONG).
If you don't understand the following yet base all of your arguments on a conversation you had but don't really remember with a pastor, what the fuck are you trying to prove?
1. You don't understand basic Biology.
2. You fail to recognize and adhere to the laws of physics, geology, astrophysics.
3. You don't even understand the founding roots of your own religion (You said previously that Christianity started "Waaaaaayyyy" before Jesus - WRONG).
If you don't understand the following yet base all of your arguments on a conversation you had but don't really remember with a pastor, what the fuck are you trying to prove?
ashamedkrew
Active member
And the odds of two big rocks smashing together and creating a cell are.. thats about the same as getting skis from a big pile of stuff. And i highly doubt that you could explain how ROCK + ROCK = CELL
jerad
Active member
See, this is my problem with religion right fucking here.
Why should somebody need religion to have a purpose? Regardless if God exists or does not exist, fresh air does not taste any fresher, a beautiful sunset is not any more beautiful.
I don't understand why people need the fear of some invisible guy lurking over their shoulder and watching over them at all times to feel like they have a purpose.
Why can't people live for the purpose of being happy and trying to become a better person? Charity and all other self-satisfying acts can be just as self-satisfying - why do people need to feel as if they're pleasing some higher being? It's a fucking absurd concept.
Why should somebody need religion to have a purpose? Regardless if God exists or does not exist, fresh air does not taste any fresher, a beautiful sunset is not any more beautiful.
I don't understand why people need the fear of some invisible guy lurking over their shoulder and watching over them at all times to feel like they have a purpose.
Why can't people live for the purpose of being happy and trying to become a better person? Charity and all other self-satisfying acts can be just as self-satisfying - why do people need to feel as if they're pleasing some higher being? It's a fucking absurd concept.
Funnel
Active member
I'm not going to take the time to explain it, the cell came millions of years later. You are being more ignorant than Josh. You ahve to understand how all this shit works but it has been shoved down your throat that god is the only so you think science is irrelevant and blow it off.
Jerad is on the money. I think Buddhism is all about perfecting yourself too. Not pleasing anyone, except yourself.
Jerad is on the money. I think Buddhism is all about perfecting yourself too. Not pleasing anyone, except yourself.
jerad
Active member
Are you a moron? Do you really think it was that fucking simple? Do you realize that tons of different elements existed in liquid, solid, and gaseous form at this point?
Gross simplifications may work with religion, but not science. It wasn't just "One rock hit another rock and BAM you have life." It's more like a single piece of extremely condensed matter (Imagine the entire universe as a pin head), fucking exploded and a ton of crazy fucking shit happened. Not just two rocks smashed together. Wow.
Do we know why that pin head of matter was in existence? What it came from? No. If this is where you want to insert God, by all means do it. But to sit here and just make dumb analogies is the dumbest thing in the world.
Gross simplifications may work with religion, but not science. It wasn't just "One rock hit another rock and BAM you have life." It's more like a single piece of extremely condensed matter (Imagine the entire universe as a pin head), fucking exploded and a ton of crazy fucking shit happened. Not just two rocks smashed together. Wow.
Do we know why that pin head of matter was in existence? What it came from? No. If this is where you want to insert God, by all means do it. But to sit here and just make dumb analogies is the dumbest thing in the world.
ashamedkrew
Active member
Because its not just about sitting here on earth and being like.. YAY I'M ALIVE! Now what?.. We're here for a purpose. Not just randomly just for the heck of it. It's what happens once your not here anymore that get interesting
ashamedkrew
Active member
So from this very wise, thought out quote, i take it your a biology major. Thanks for clearing up how that whole explosion thing worked.
jerad
Active member
A purpose? How about the purpose of creating a better environment for yourself and your children?
Do you know religion has killed more people than anything else in the fucking world? Think about the wars, genocide, even that fucking nut bag who killed the abortion doctor - over what? What was their purpose again?
What was Hitler's purpose? What were the crusades purpose? What is jihads purpose?
If you can't sit on Earth and say "YAY I'M ALIVE!" whats the point of living? You have a lot to learn dude...
Do you know religion has killed more people than anything else in the fucking world? Think about the wars, genocide, even that fucking nut bag who killed the abortion doctor - over what? What was their purpose again?
What was Hitler's purpose? What were the crusades purpose? What is jihads purpose?
If you can't sit on Earth and say "YAY I'M ALIVE!" whats the point of living? You have a lot to learn dude...
ashamedkrew
Active member
Because your being completely ignorant. All of the sudden you popped up on the earth. Simple as that. And now your gonna live your life without as much as wondering why your here? Thats ignorance at its best.
Tinga
Active member
evolution argument aside and referring to the op i can not tell you why certain parts of scripture are taken more seriously then the rest. it goes down to the central morals of a person whether it is the way they are brought up or the people find different ways to logical thinking.
I have been raised Lutheran my whole life. my father is an associate pastor for a large Lutheran church. and from what i have taken away from this is that martin luther, the author of the small catechism and the original 95 thesis against the catholic church, as a monk of the catholic he himself felt that the new testament was more important than the old testament.
before i get too far ahead of myself the bible of Christianity is broken down into two books or testaments. the first testament talks about the creation of the earth and the delivery of the hebrews from egypt to the promise land of israel. so at this point these people are jews and there is no christianity. in the second testament the first four subdivisions mathew mark luke and jon and referred to as the gospels of jesus christ. They tell about the birth life and death of jesus christ. he himself was a jew so there was still no christianity until he gained his following. his following was the start of christianity. and when jesus died he went to hell to pay for all the debts of the future race of man. he himself was perfect and had never sinned that is why he was ale to pay for all of our debts.
now back to martin luther. Martin luther was a catholic monk and was taught that the old testament was more important than the new testament. so luther wrote a paper for class about all the things he didn't like about the catholic church. needless to say his paper was considered hereacy and he was arrested. now hereacy in his century was a big fucking deal. so naturally his story was wide spread. as widespread as you could get in those days. so he was put on trial by the catholic church and he go into higher and higher courts and finally requested to have a trial with the pope. now luthers had his logic all planned out and he was so convinced of himself that he believed all he had to do was talk to the pope and the pope would change catholosism forever. however the german monarchy knew that the pope would never change his ways and that luther would burn for being a hereatic. so the german prince hid him away. while in hiding luther translated the new testament the one full of gods love for humans through sending his own son to die for our sins from latin the language of the church into german the language of the people.
this being completed was fueled by the recently invented gutenburg printing press and was also wide spread. people picked up the cause and a nasty war broke out.
my point with all this is that people just find different parts of the scripture more important than the other. through up bringing or their own logic.
and why shouldn't people believe in a story so beautiful and so morally right? it doesnt hurt the vast vast vast majority of people and look at what all the churches in the world have accomplished.
many churches are homeless shelters and soup kitchens and do lots of missionary work to help less fortunate.
I have been raised Lutheran my whole life. my father is an associate pastor for a large Lutheran church. and from what i have taken away from this is that martin luther, the author of the small catechism and the original 95 thesis against the catholic church, as a monk of the catholic he himself felt that the new testament was more important than the old testament.
before i get too far ahead of myself the bible of Christianity is broken down into two books or testaments. the first testament talks about the creation of the earth and the delivery of the hebrews from egypt to the promise land of israel. so at this point these people are jews and there is no christianity. in the second testament the first four subdivisions mathew mark luke and jon and referred to as the gospels of jesus christ. They tell about the birth life and death of jesus christ. he himself was a jew so there was still no christianity until he gained his following. his following was the start of christianity. and when jesus died he went to hell to pay for all the debts of the future race of man. he himself was perfect and had never sinned that is why he was ale to pay for all of our debts.
now back to martin luther. Martin luther was a catholic monk and was taught that the old testament was more important than the new testament. so luther wrote a paper for class about all the things he didn't like about the catholic church. needless to say his paper was considered hereacy and he was arrested. now hereacy in his century was a big fucking deal. so naturally his story was wide spread. as widespread as you could get in those days. so he was put on trial by the catholic church and he go into higher and higher courts and finally requested to have a trial with the pope. now luthers had his logic all planned out and he was so convinced of himself that he believed all he had to do was talk to the pope and the pope would change catholosism forever. however the german monarchy knew that the pope would never change his ways and that luther would burn for being a hereatic. so the german prince hid him away. while in hiding luther translated the new testament the one full of gods love for humans through sending his own son to die for our sins from latin the language of the church into german the language of the people.
this being completed was fueled by the recently invented gutenburg printing press and was also wide spread. people picked up the cause and a nasty war broke out.
my point with all this is that people just find different parts of the scripture more important than the other. through up bringing or their own logic.
and why shouldn't people believe in a story so beautiful and so morally right? it doesnt hurt the vast vast vast majority of people and look at what all the churches in the world have accomplished.
many churches are homeless shelters and soup kitchens and do lots of missionary work to help less fortunate.
ashamedkrew
Active member
Ya actually, I have looked at the night sky. And i wondered how it got there. And after wondering that, it seems like a pretty decent conclusion that it wasnt one big frickin freak of nature accident.
jerad
Active member
Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG.
Just because I don't sit here and worship an imaginary man does not mean that I don't wonder why I'm here. I think about that shit every day, but instead of reading a story from the bible and investing all my thought into it's message, I like to read about outer space, NASA projects, quantum physics, history, archaeology, THINGS THAT ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE.
Now whose ignorant, the one who blindly follows the religion he was born in to, or the one who "just popped up" and thinks AS AN INDIVIDUAL?
Just because I don't sit here and worship an imaginary man does not mean that I don't wonder why I'm here. I think about that shit every day, but instead of reading a story from the bible and investing all my thought into it's message, I like to read about outer space, NASA projects, quantum physics, history, archaeology, THINGS THAT ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE.
Now whose ignorant, the one who blindly follows the religion he was born in to, or the one who "just popped up" and thinks AS AN INDIVIDUAL?
It shows, trust me.
I trust Anthony Bourdain to fairly judge a restaurant and cooking style, because he has many more years and tomes of knowledge on the subject than I could ever hope to achieve. Draw your own parable here...
I trust Anthony Bourdain to fairly judge a restaurant and cooking style, because he has many more years and tomes of knowledge on the subject than I could ever hope to achieve. Draw your own parable here...
ashamedkrew
Active member
Science cant even explain it though bud. It's a THEORY. A guess. A possibility. Thats what the science is. Many things in the Bible have been proven true. Why would you Charles Darwin's works and say OK i believe that, and then look at stuff in the Bible and say its a bunch of crap?
jerad
Active member
What has been proven true in the bible?
The big flood and gazillion animals on the wooden ship?
Turning water into wine?
Feeding a gazillion people with a few fish and a few loaves of bread?
A man being nailed to a cross, then buried in a cave, only to escape the cave as a zombie, walk around and talk to people, then shoot into the sky?
You're right! Science has NOTHING on that. Evolution aside - Science is wrong! Carbon dating? Dinosaur Fossils? It's all a big scam! AHH!!!!!
The big flood and gazillion animals on the wooden ship?
Turning water into wine?
Feeding a gazillion people with a few fish and a few loaves of bread?
A man being nailed to a cross, then buried in a cave, only to escape the cave as a zombie, walk around and talk to people, then shoot into the sky?
You're right! Science has NOTHING on that. Evolution aside - Science is wrong! Carbon dating? Dinosaur Fossils? It's all a big scam! AHH!!!!!
jester8589
Member
and another thing
laws of entropy state that stability favors disorder. and we are called organisms. organized is in the word. so stability does not go for organisms. so for organisms to become organized enough in the beginning to be the first forms of life it is also unlikely.
evolution is not mentioned as a form of creation.
laws of entropy state that stability favors disorder. and we are called organisms. organized is in the word. so stability does not go for organisms. so for organisms to become organized enough in the beginning to be the first forms of life it is also unlikely.
evolution is not mentioned as a form of creation.
joshua
Active member
One more argument i just remembered. Scienctists today are realising that evolution is far to complicated to be true. The latest theory is intelligent design. Now some scientists are saying that aliens that evolved in more favourable conditions seeded us on earth. Charles Dawkins even thinks this might be. Hmmmm seems a lot like creation to me, they just took the God part out. Evolution is just and ignorant way of trying to make it seem like God does not exist. People will grasp even the most ridiculous ideas to escape having to admit God is real
ashamedkrew
Active member
Because you have no FAITH. You like things that make no sense because you have no FAITH. Even though you 'trust' in all the science and stuff it only BEGINS to explain how this all went down. You like to believe in your theory because your brain can comprehend it, but there is no part of any of this that is straight proven fact. You can believe all this stuff, but right before you die you still have NO CLUE whats about to happen, you can only give it a guess. So while some prefer to just look at the facts and say it was all a big random mess, others believe that this whole existence, indeed, does have a purpose
Ryan*
Active member
Uhhhh....not really.
Christianity started when Jesus started preaching his ideals (which, by the way, are pretty much the exact opposite of today's Christianity) and gained a following, and then was unjustly murdered, turning him into a martyr and strengthening his followers. All of this happened, by the way, some 3000 years or so after the whole Ten-Commandments and Garden-of-Eden business. Roughly.
You're thinking of Judaism.
Christianity started when Jesus started preaching his ideals (which, by the way, are pretty much the exact opposite of today's Christianity) and gained a following, and then was unjustly murdered, turning him into a martyr and strengthening his followers. All of this happened, by the way, some 3000 years or so after the whole Ten-Commandments and Garden-of-Eden business. Roughly.
You're thinking of Judaism.
ashamedkrew
Active member
we can start with Jericho, the ancient city in the middle east where the people marched around the city 7 times and blew a horn and then bam, the whole wall around the city fell down. Now that is straight biblical, and scientists today have dug up remains of the whole wall at the EXACT site the bible specified, and have found evidence that the wall did miraculously fall down, creating a large impact. Let's have science explain this one.
Jesus christ, theres so much wrong and outrageously ludicrousness in this post I hesitate even to quote it, for fear that such blatant ineptitude repeated would rip open a hole in spacetime.
Children, many things are theories. Its part of the scientific process. Cool thing with theories though is that if new evidence comes to light, you can revise your theory and come up with a better one, instead of backpedaling until some obscure scripture is found that can be weakly twisted to support your side.
And yeah, some of the stuff in the Bible is true, as you will find with many ancient texts and stories. Most elements of a myth are based on at least a smidgen of fact. But just because elements of the story have historical basis doesnt automatically make resurrection, healing touch or the warping of space to cross the Red Sea, or even the existance of a higher omnipresent power watching over us all true.
Children, many things are theories. Its part of the scientific process. Cool thing with theories though is that if new evidence comes to light, you can revise your theory and come up with a better one, instead of backpedaling until some obscure scripture is found that can be weakly twisted to support your side.
And yeah, some of the stuff in the Bible is true, as you will find with many ancient texts and stories. Most elements of a myth are based on at least a smidgen of fact. But just because elements of the story have historical basis doesnt automatically make resurrection, healing touch or the warping of space to cross the Red Sea, or even the existance of a higher omnipresent power watching over us all true.
jerad
Active member
Well, I do have a clue. My brain will release some DMT and I will go into a psychotropic state and proceed to die.
The end.
And I'm not saying there is no purpose to life, have you been reading what I've posted? Why does this "purpose" have to come down to a judgment at the end? Maybe our "purpose" is to enjoy life while we can and do good things because it feels good, not for the satisfaction of a higher being.
I just don't believe that in 7 days everything was created and life existed as we know it today.
Why is that so hard to swallow?
The end.
And I'm not saying there is no purpose to life, have you been reading what I've posted? Why does this "purpose" have to come down to a judgment at the end? Maybe our "purpose" is to enjoy life while we can and do good things because it feels good, not for the satisfaction of a higher being.
I just don't believe that in 7 days everything was created and life existed as we know it today.
Why is that so hard to swallow?
Holy fucking facepalm Batman.
Also, if anyone posts huge copy-pasted text again, I'm deleting it. You do it again, you get my wrath.
Also, if anyone posts huge copy-pasted text again, I'm deleting it. You do it again, you get my wrath.
Charles.... Dawkins?
Tinga
Active member
This is why we can't have civilized discussion on these types of topics. because both sides are rude and disrespectful.
If i don't agree with something that has been said mocking what i believe wont make me believe your side any more.
but there has been evidence that the red sea was once dry and flooded back very quickly. ie when moses parted the red seas walked across then closed it back up again when the egyptians were chasing them.
this is not a personal attack i just want to point out that both sides of this argument probably need a little more education on both sides of this topic. and both need to stop accusing the other side as being ignorant when in fact no one in the world is not ignorant to the truth of what really happened. only thing we have are theories and educated guesses.
If i don't agree with something that has been said mocking what i believe wont make me believe your side any more.
but there has been evidence that the red sea was once dry and flooded back very quickly. ie when moses parted the red seas walked across then closed it back up again when the egyptians were chasing them.
this is not a personal attack i just want to point out that both sides of this argument probably need a little more education on both sides of this topic. and both need to stop accusing the other side as being ignorant when in fact no one in the world is not ignorant to the truth of what really happened. only thing we have are theories and educated guesses.
Well, you obviously know what you're talking about, I'll give you that.
SteezyasPie
Active member
my threads for when its not almost 2AM and i can think and post coherently
^it will probably be along these lines though
^it will probably be along these lines though
jerad
Active member
If I offended you man, I apologize. Obviously I know I posted a gross misrepresentation of what happened - only to try and make my point clear to an audience who so blindly will ignore some of the things that I am posting.
As for religious education on my behalf, I went to a Catholic school from K - 6 grade, took college classes on Judaism, Christianity, even the Amish (Martin Luther, the guy you posted about early, actually started the whole Amish movement when he split away from the church - and basically himself started a religious movement not even he could fathom. And yet, even people disagreed with him, who branched off, and so on and so forth).
Please don't mistake me for another 13 year old kid, I just tend to use exaggeration at times when people make dumb, unintelligent comments with the only basis of their argument relying on the words "because I said so."
As for religious education on my behalf, I went to a Catholic school from K - 6 grade, took college classes on Judaism, Christianity, even the Amish (Martin Luther, the guy you posted about early, actually started the whole Amish movement when he split away from the church - and basically himself started a religious movement not even he could fathom. And yet, even people disagreed with him, who branched off, and so on and so forth).
Please don't mistake me for another 13 year old kid, I just tend to use exaggeration at times when people make dumb, unintelligent comments with the only basis of their argument relying on the words "because I said so."
2+2=5
Active member
yeah but you also have to have "FAITH" in unicorns and santa clause. see the way i see it is that science can only deal with the physical plane of existance. so how can science explain something that is intangible and not physically real. like how can science explain the meaning of love, conciousness, or even a trance? are they all just chemical reactions? i think theres something more to them, and that something is not part of the physical plane of existance.
http://www.acnlp.no/textsider/The Game of games.pdf
read this short story and it will blow your mind into chunky salsa
http://www.acnlp.no/textsider/The Game of games.pdf
read this short story and it will blow your mind into chunky salsa
.jesus.
Active member
ok i thin he means asteroids slammed together roughly the size of this planet probably a bit larger and then listen class comets (which are made of rock and ice ice is the important part) bombarded earth until there was enough water to sustain simple life forms since the comets would be rich in carbon and other substances needed to create and sustain life and slowly very very slowly these simple organisms evolved
sorry if this made little sense im fuckin tired
sorry if this made little sense im fuckin tired
ashamedkrew
Active member
I'm out. I've tried to make some good points but its hard to argue with people that say alot of f***ing **** f***ing blew up and thats it. NS probably isnt the best place to argue this either but its just hard to just watch people rip on the entire purpose of your life and keep your mouth shut. I think Tinga has some real spot on words too. At least someone is a voice of reason in here
