Operation Odyssey Dawn: Military Action Against Libya

That's why we're ditching, and leaving it to europe now if I'm not mistaken...
France was going to use theirs, but they were le tired... so we HAD to go in there with our tomahawk chop, and go all Florida State on some russian built AA installations and other crap... now France had a nap, and they are going to fire ze missiles on their own...
It would be one thing if we threw guys on the ground... but I havent seen any humvees rollin through the north african desert...

Pretty sure that's the only time americans seem to care to complain about wars anyways - when their sons are groundpounding it...
 
Pretty sure I heard from multiple sources that we were turning over our activities over there to the French and the UK for the most part?
'Our' goal is pretty obvious though... the US government, as well as other Nato governments who are sick of Gheddafi's shit are using this oppritunity to get a shitstorm started over there so he falls out of power...
France then recognizes the Libyan rebels as the legitimate government, and now everyone decides that we have to protect them from being overrun by the 'illegitimate' gheddafi supported side...

And because we're so chill with the French, we decide to throw some tomahawks at the government that they dont support, since we havent had anything to throw them at for years, and we might as well anyways? yeah?

I dont see any of our humvee's rollin in though. It's time for Europe to use their own shit if they really want to control their backyard.
(then again, the USA might want to have a stake in that Libyan oil.... hmmmm)

Whatever. I'm just hoping that the missile attacks were all we decided to do and now we're calling quits soon.
 
They are currently trying to figure out how to transfer power, because someone has to take the lead, it can't just be handed over to NATO.

And i think leaving is the wrong word. Technically speaking we aren't leaving libya because we aren't there. Pretty much all involvement thus far has been from foreign air bases and from the med. sea, where we always have aircraft/ships anyway.

The goal seems to be to give the libyan rebels a bit of a boost and help them rise up, but it would seem that they misunderstood because they haven't done much.

I think comparing libya to iraq is a bit excessive. Libya has had a no fly zone for what, 3, 4 days? Iraq had one for more than a decade. And libya has an active resistance force, not like iraq who was more or less just being contained. Comparing libya to bosnia-herzegovina still isn't accurate, but it's closer than iraq.

Agreed on that last bit though. Anything to get a leg up on someone else in politics is the way things go these days.
 
how does that change what I said? The plane was stationed in the UK. It was not a ground force occupying the country. It was a plane...overflying it.

And it wasn't shot down, it had a mechanical problem which forced the crew to eject. Significant difference there.
 
Because that was the point I was making. It's not an occupational force or even a ground force. That's all. Crashed aircraft happen, the crew was recovered, the wreckage was bombed to oblivion...life goes on.

I'm not denying that it's puts them in harms way, I was just simply saying that we aren't actively occupying libya.
 
I wouldn't rule it out immediately. Too soon to tell right now as we're less than a week in.

It all depends on how the rebels manage. If they gain equal footing, then as I believe dingosean pointed out, the French and several other European governments (and in the end, most likely the US) will then acknowledge them as the legitimate government, and will lead to gaddafi's govt being overthrown with international help.

If they don't...odds are, nato will bomb gaddafi to shit anyway.

 
Just now looked at NSG for the first time in a week to see this at the top.
Didn't really look at the whole thread, but I wanted to point out to you that we haven't actually declared war on a country ever since World War 2. The President maintains the power as COMMANDER IN CHIEF to execute military actions such as this one. As for all of you claiming this is the next Iraq, this is merely the enforcement of a UN resolution.
 
Article 2, Section 2, US Constitution
(Im in government class right now, had to have seen it coming)
"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States"
Subsequent explanation:
The President is the military's commander-in-chief; however Article One gives Congress and not the President the authority to declare war. Presidents have often deployed troops with Congressional authorization, but without an explicit declaration of war. According to historian Thomas Woods, "Ever since the Korean War, Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution — which refers to the president as the 'Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States' — has been interpreted to mean that the president may act with an essentially free hand in foreign affairs, or at the very least that he may send men into battle without consulting Congress." Since World War II, every major military action has been technically a U.S. military operation or a U.N. "police action", which are deemed legally legitimate by Congress, and various United Nations Resolutions because of decisions such as the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, Authorization for Use of Force. This is also true in the case of the Korean War, which was only retroactively deemed a war—50 years to the day, after the fact—by a ceremonial Act of Congress. This clause is included because it gives the President power over the troops, and under one commander, the military is bound to be more organized and efficient.
 
threads. my favorite part was when woozy called skiierman a liberal. also all these fucktards saying things like "liberals better be against this!!" that's exactly what we need, more blind and across the board partisanship. fucking retards
 
Understood. I don't necessarily agree morally with whats been said, but I just wanted to point out that the President does have the ability to do what has been done.
 
woozy, the rest of the country, including congress, the military, and for all apparent reason the supreme court, disagree with your interpretation of the constitution. Give it a rest.
 
You're asking me?
I say no to both - i'm not for this intervention either...

But i'm not freaking out about it quite as much as you - seeing as I've become used to this sort of thing being an American citizen...

This aint the first time, do something about it yourself, or shut the fuck up.
 
I just hope it ends as quickly as it started. I think 4 wars is 4 too many. I feel like where playing a big game of command and conquer but were running out of tiberiium .. shit.
 
I'll believe "we're turning over command of this mission" when I see it. The UN and NATO are like weak bickering children. They achieve nothing unless Daddy steps in and handles it. We've launched 98% of all cruise missiles and performed the majority of combat operations so far. All this is being done under US leadership despite French initiation. Don't expect a leadership change if a NFZ is to be maintained because NATO and the UN are useless without US military support.
 
I'm more of a starcraft player... so I was thinking we have not enough minerals, or we must build additional pylons...
But C&C has WAY awesomer music...

 
This thread inspired me to get back into playing the FPS squad-based shooters like Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising. Thank you, NS.
 
Ugh. Tomahawk missles are worth 1.066million a pop...
between the US and the UK, theres been 159 thrown into Libya... 98% of which is probably from Americans
That's essentially 160 million bucks thrown away...
And they wonder why we are behind other countries in schooling... Idiocracy, here we come...

Cant we just throw heaps of ACTUAL TOMAHAWKS at them? Like... the native american hand-axe weapon?
Just shoot like 50000 of them out of big ass cannons... I'd assume that would be way more intimidating to see a shitload of AXES heading in your direction...
Think of the sun-shading arrow swarm the Persians threw at the 300 Spartans... Now think of them as axes... holy shit.
300.jpg

 
Woozy, even though this has already been initiated in a way far different than Iraq (based on democracy as the first motive, not the third once WMDs and terrorists fell through), and with the support of many other world powers in europe, even with all of this, I invite you to feel free to compare this no fly zone to the Iraq situation........ That is once we have been in Libya for 8 or 9 years, and we have ran up a tab on the order of trillions of dollars, and we are effectively the only country left cleaning up the mess. Then you can compare this to Iraq.
 
That's certainly part of it...
But at least in my home state... there is a massive issue with the education system, in that there isn't enough money to keep legitimate, longstanding programs running at state run universities, and even private schools are having trouble with people not being able to aquire adequate financial aid to enter...
but I guess not being able to get your classes, and have to spend 6 years to finish a normally 4 year program in college is fine, as long as we have tomahawk missiles, right?
 
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im sorry, cause i think we actually agree on Libya BUT this is pure idiocy.

there is no correlation to the couple hundred million (im taking other things into account) spent in Libya and your inability to finish college. for whatever reason.

the govt pisses away 160M on far more frivolous things that should IMO be front and center.
 
you forget that the military also makes insane bank by selling weapons. the persians, on the other hand, kept all their gear because it was ltd. edition type stuff and it was against the law. red bull's marketing is based off what the persians did and it seems to really be working.
 
Ha. it's not my not being able to finish college... by any means... I went to school in Oregon, after all...
Literally... back down south, California's public universities have limited unit hours per semester to just 12... Cant even take a full term anymore down there. It's gnarly bad for a lot of my friends, who have had their programs completely ousted in the middle of their studies. Definitely shitty.
I know the government spends money on ridiculous shit that should never be budgetted... but It's just an example of my thoughts against what I call over-spending on the military...
I'm merely just saying shits fucked, and we should pay a little more attention to our potential for a pretty wrecked domestic workforce in the future...

 
my apologies. that came off wrong.

"not finish in 4 years"

fuck da haterz though, its gonna take me 4.5 years to finish. who needs to be 22 and looking for a real job? lolololol
 
something tells me that you're not fully aware of the situation of how little the U.S. is involved, how many other countries are involved and that NATO (whatever your thoughts on that is) is a couple days away from assuming full control of the operation...
 
Yup. NATO is a Cold War relic with nothing to do anymore for most of the member countries. The USA already has their hands full would jump ship tomorrow on the whole operation if they could. Hell command for this whole operation was placed under a Canadian general yesterday, talk about a slap in the face for Sarkozy
 
Do you admit that you know very little about military action? I think that would be a safe assumption.

So please don't pass opinion on things you really don't understand.

When you go to attack someone, you don't do it lightly. You fuck the living shit out of them. For the United States, 200 cruise missiles over a week is a little.
 
Tripoli still has buildings in it right? Water and Electricity supply is about the same as it was 2 weeks ago. There are no U.S. boots on Libyan soil as of now (well there might be 12 pairs of muddy boots).

That is what is little about it. We could flatten Tripoli over night if we wanted to, but we haven't

 
Over the last 5 pages, your argument that the US has waged war against Libya has been decimated, get over it. This is the US adhering to their UN policies, and we will soon be uninvolved. Seeing as how the 60 or 90 day time limit has not even come close to passing yet, even if this was a war, Obama has still not broken any laws.
As a rule of thumb for the future, if Fox news isn't even bringing this up as an illegal war, Obama is most likely in the clear
 
The military doesn't actually make weapons. Weapons companies make weapons and sell to the military.
And then when the military stops taking orders for certain stuff, they allow that equip to be licensed for export to allies.
and then if the gear is so obsolete, they put it in storage or, in the case of planes/ships in mothball fleets until Brazil or Fiji want a 1950's aircraft carrier or a squadron of vietnam era A-6's or F4's or something.
 
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