Operation Odyssey Dawn: Military Action Against Libya

jesus.

did you miss the part at the end of my post where i said. "at least with Iraq there was the rational (the reason for going to war) (although false) there were WMD's.

the popular argument now used to justify the action in Iraq is "we got rid of a brutal dictator" (which i mistakenly put in the beginning of my post) thinking that Dingo (who i know is smart enough) would understand that im talking about the current rational.

again, youre not talking to a child, get over yourself and your obviously "more developed opinion" (that was sarcasm in case i didnt make myself clear) on world problems.
 
I do agree with you that america is not forced to engage from the UN but being such a large player in the UN and a supposed firm believer in "democracy" it is very important for the US to atleast comply with the UN and show media support. Obama has already claimed for a fact the US military action in the gulf will be greatly reduced in a few days to far less than the lead nations of western europe. The media and middle eastern people seem to sensationalize the fact since america is there they must have "started" it which cannot be further from the truth. If you want to blame a western country in the current military action, turn your aggression towards france as they were the nation who have stirred the pot the most of all. You do have valid points, and I agree at some levels but at a realistic global relation and security level i cannot agree with some of your points. US in its current light and relation to the world cannot defy the UN due to the Iraq issues.
 
An act of war is simply an act that occurs while the United States is officially at war with another country. Congress has the power to declare war for the reason that declaring war is officially enacting a law that states we are at war with another country. In this instance which country would we declare war on? Libya? The whole argument for military intervention is that Ghaddafi and his forces are no longer the legitimate government of Libya.

Also the President is the commander in chief of the military, not congress, military action does not require a declaration of war, and war does not require military conflict. We are at war with DPRK and China, although there is not any recent military conflict with them.

Also the difference between Libya and Rwanda, Darfor, are slightly striking.
 
1300656843HfMby.jpg
 
I can see North Korea still, based on the armistice, but did we ever throw China in there as well? seeing as their involvement was sorta disputed? (though obviously well known - just like the use of Soviet fighter pilots in Mig-Alley..)
 
Yeah we are technically still at war with the DPRK but not China. China never "officially" entered into the Korean war just like the Soviets never "officially" entered either.
 
The technicalities of war has always been a blurred line. In the Revolutionary War, Spanish Armadas and the French Navy assisted the USA against Britain militarily and financially. While all three of them never officially declaring war on the other. This has been the case in the Korean, Vietnam, and Soviet invasion of Afghanistan with belligerents being aided militarily and financially as im sure you are well aware of.

Now lets get back on track
While traditionally the allied attacks on Libya which my country is also guilty of should traditionally be seen as an act of war it isn't. As long as beauracracy exists clear cut guide lines like the Constitution will be bent, twisted, and blurred. This will not change. The USA among with her allies should at least give this revolution a chance/helping hand since without aid you would probably still have monarchy figures on your legal tender.
 
Congress can't even agree on what to do with this country, do you think they have the time to vote on an election-losing-regardless-of-how-you-vote law?
 
Let me caption this.
Ghaddafi: YEAHH! TAKE THAT YOU REBEL RATS AND COCKAROCHES! MY PERSONALITY CULT WINS WITH IT'S SOVIET ERA MIG-23'S!! YAY GREEN FLAGZ WAVEE!! ~~~~~
Dassault 2000's: SHIT GUYZ, THESE GREEN FLAG WAVERS ARE CRAZYFUCKS, AND WE GOT ZE MISSILZ SO FIRE OUR SHIT! oh... AND RED WHITE AND BLUE SMOKE FOR ZE WIN! AUX ARMES CITOYENZ!!!
Ghaddafi: Oh shit.. Mig 23's waz a bad ideaz...
Sarkozy:
400px-Trollface.jpg
 
I would think you are beating a dead horse trying to find a way to declare military action illegal because you have a hard time arguing against the morality of it.

bah bah.

I really doubt Libyan soil will see more then a couple dozen pairs of US boots during this affair.
 
oh wait... lets go back to the 50's... korean war? no declaration of war by congress. vietnam? no declaration of war by congress. desert storm? no declaration of war by congress. Afghanistan? no declaration of war, Iraq #2 yet again, no declaration of war. holy shit i'm seeing a trend. The last time congress declared war was in 1941 after japan bombed pearl harbor. do you really think the commander in chief gives a fuck about it anymore? no
 
I hate to be the historically accurate one here, buttt... the last time was when congress declared war on Bulgaria, Hungary, and Romania on June 5th 1942... =)
Even Germany came 3 days after the Japanese war declaration...
 
"police actions"

hell even reagan did this. he literally did the same thing as obama now. theres a pretty sweet statue showing how gadaffi remembered it:

gaddafi+2.jpg


thats gadhafi's fist crushing an american plane, just in case you didn't notice
 
708px-F-14-22-.png

This is a picture depicting an F14 throwing an Aim-9 Sidewinder at a Libyan SU-22 Fitter, which is about to get fucking tagged back in 1981 for screwing around and being a dipshit by fucking with the USS nimitz in international waters... It's wingmate also got thrashed.
Score? Tomcats 2 - Fitters 0

Ghaddafi cant talk shit...
 
Oh.. and 8 year's later in 1989.. this happened when a couple of Mig 23 Floggers got fuckin flogged by another couple of F14 tomcats, when they decided to fuck around.
MiG23_Kill.jpg

Fox two, mofuckaaa... that's what getting 'flogged' looks like on Gun camera, at night.

I dont see any fist crushing here....
 
Indeed. But i like kim jong il a lot more than gadaffi, as well as the ridiculous heoism that he portrays to north korea. Did you hear he can jump 8 feet high?
 
I'm really just impressed at his Golfing ability... 11 holes in 1? in his first try? Shit's talent right there...
and apparently... when he was born... a double rainbow formed over the mountain he was born utop...
Double Rainbow? What does it mean? It means that a new dear leader was fuckin born there...
 
So we just bombed Ghadaffis compound. It was targeted for its military capability not because its Ghaddafis place. Loopholes are a bitch huh.
 
From what i can tell, didnt read to much ill look again. cnn homepage. That place with the gun and fighter jet in the fist is the one that got Tomohawked.
 
good thing they are completely unrelated.
the war on terror began in 01
the war on iraq began in 03 when we bombed the fuck out of saddam hussien's, a pretty fucking evil dictator, air defenses, air fields and so on.
 
Can you imagine that conversation?

running into the room.. Mr. President , President Ghadafi is in his compound, Satcom picked up his armored convoy arriving.

You sure he is there? "yes sir" we have eyes on the ground and in the air.

Hmmmm.... order me some steak and lobster fomr the kitchen.

OK , we can verify he is there , what are the defenses at his compound ? "Ghadafi has 4AA guns and libyan military comm systemsas well as troops and his HOT private security team

Hmmmm. .. OK take him out, leak to the press that the United States has no intention of targeting Ghadifi directly but we are taking out communications and a military installation to help the rebels. Have air support over tripoli knock it off and hit him. haha loopholes are a bitch, President out.
 
Quote form some report.

A military official said Air Force B-2 stealth bombers flew 25 hours in a

round trip from Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri and dropped 45

2,000-pound bombs

Whoa !
 
agreed.

We could probably pull all other forces out once they are in. This is their home, and where they dream about fighting. Just gotta make sure they don't march straight into algeria once they're done in libya.
 
Well... SOME of their home... I mean... the FFL is made up of something like 35 nationalities or something...
There's currently Americans and Canadians serving in it right now...
 
I meant more that The FFL was always based out of various parts of North Africa throughout their history. (Primarily algeria) But as France lost colonial power in the region, they were forced to leave. But from what I've read, the legions still considers north africa to be their proper home.
 
Practice confirms that the president, under his

commander-in-chief and other executive powers, has very broad

discretion to use U.S. military force in the absence of congressional

authorization. Presidents have done this, in military actions large and

small, over 100 times, since the beginning of the republic. The largest

and most consequential unauthorized military action is the Korean War

launched by President Truman in 1950. Another big conflict without

congressional authorization—and, indeed, in the face of an overt

congressional vote that declined to provide such authorization—was

President Clinton's Kosovo intervention in 1999. Some less significant

unilateral uses of military force in the past 30 years include Haiti

(2004), Bosnia (1995), Haiti (1994), Somalia (1992), Panama (1989),

Libya (1986), Lebanon (1982), and Iran (1980). The executive branch has

issued public legal opinions explaining the constitutional basis for

most of these actions.

Critics claim that a pattern of consistently violating the Constitution

cannot remedy the illegality of these actions. But that is not the

right way to view this pattern. An important principle of

constitutional law—especially when the allocation of power between the

branches is at issue—is that constitutional meaning gets liquidated by

constitutional practice. As Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist

explained in his opinion in Dames and Moore vs. Regan http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0453_0654_ZO.html:

" A systematic, unbroken, executive practice, long pursued to the

knowledge of the Congress and never before questioned … may be treated

as a gloss on 'Executive Power' vested in the President by § 1 of Art.

II. Past practice does not, by itself, create power, but long-continued

practice, known to and acquiesced in by Congress, would raise a

presumption that the [action] had been [taken] in pursuance of its

consent."

Congress has known about this pattern of presidential unilateralism for

some time and done little in response. It has never impeached a

president for using force in this way. It has continued to finance an

enormous standing military force in the face of this practice. And it

has done practically nothing by statute to push back on the president's

power to initiate military action with that standing military force.

Not even the famous War Powers Resolution of 1973 does much to address

the unauthorized initiation of force by a president. It requires the

president to submit a report to Congress within 48 hours whenever armed

forces are introduced "into hostilities or into situations where

imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the

circumstances." After the president reports the introduction of forces

abroad, the resolution requires him to withdraw those forces within 60

days (or 90 days, based on military necessity) unless Congress has

authorized continued operations.
 
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