Not Another Mass Shooting...

[PacificRimJob]

After this whole thing with the mass shooting in Oregon, it hit pretty close to home yet again. I went to school just south of there, and lived in that part of Oregon for 4 years out of my life. I know people from Roseburg. I know people who actually went to the school where this happened.

Not a month ago, there was a shooting at a community college 15 minutes from where I live in Sacramento - it wasn't a mass shooting, but it was serious. And Scary. I have friends at that school.

My high school had a shooting about 6 or 7 years ago after I had graduated. My brother had just graduated the previous summer...

This doesn't happen elsewhere - and when it does, the place where it happens does something about it...

Port Arthur happened, and Australia freaked out. They haven't had a mass shooting since.

Zug Massacre happened, and Switzerland implemented a lot of changes as well, and not only made it harder to get guns, especially certain kinds of guns, but also made it so in order to get them, increased firearms training and licensing would be required.

But here in America? Nope. No changes. No changes at all. No increase in gun control. No laws preventing certain firearms. No making it harder for anyone to get firearms. No nothing.

over 500000 gun deaths have happened in the USA since 1997. More than both world wars. combined. Think about that for just a second. not even 2 decades, and there have been over half a MILLION americans killed by firearms.

Simply put, we need to make a change. I get it folks, some of you really really like guns... but sometimes you just gotta accept change in order to make us all safer.

I know that many of you will probably bring up that many of these shooters have some sort of mental illness and that we need to focus on that rather than guns or something... welllll...

Screw the whole mental illness thing...

Yes, We need to do that, but you know damn well people will still slip through the cracks because they SEEM fine, and put together a bunch of weapons in order to shoot up an office or a school or a theatre or whatever...

Mental illness is stigmatized in this country. Nobody will admit to that, or admit that they have a kid who is sick until something really really shitty happens. We barely admit that we are addicted to alcohol or drugs when we need to, what makes you think americans will just flock to mental hospitals if we increase funding and care in that direction?

First and foremost, and the most direct thing to do, is just tell all the NRA 2nd amendment rights bastards to shut the fuck up about their government takeover conspiracy, stop acting like bratty children, and realize that there needs to be stronger laws when it comes to obtaining guns and ammunition... Switzerland allows guns, but they don't have fucking ammo stores every 2-3 miles and a gun show every weekend.

Additionally, we should also require stricter firearms awareness and training courses in order to obtain these kind of weapons. If you have to go through half a week worth of awareness and training in order to drive a car, you should in order to fire a weapon that may have been designed to kill a person.

There should also be money allocated to cracking down HARD on illegal firearms. The amount of money that goes towards going after illegal firearms and that that goes towards soft yet illegal drugs such as marijuana is skewed harshly in the wrong direction.

Americans need to just shut up and realize that whoever wrote the 2nd amendment didn't take into account that we'd have automatic handheld machine guns and shit, back in the day when it was just as effective to kill somebody with a bayonet...

To all those who say "people kill people" and that shit, I retort -People would find it pretty hard to go on a 'mass stabbing' with a knife. Hell, it's hard enough to go on a 'mass swording' because people are far better at avoiding that than a gun. Anyone with a karate class can disarm a dude with a knife... but you can't disarm a gunman from 20-30 feet away...

People with guns kill people. Not all of them. But enough of them. That should be plenty of reason to make a change...

**This thread was edited on Oct 4th 2015 at 3:05:27pm

 

[Charlie_Kelly]

But dude...like...its in our constitution to have the right to bear arms (tehe)...like bro are you a communist or something?

Plus...like think of all the mass shootings stopped by others who were armed...oh wait nevermind.

 

[JAHpow]

over 500000 gun deaths have happened in the USA since 1997. More than both world wars. combined. Think about that for just a second. not even 2 decades, and there have been over half a BILLION americans killed by firearms.

Math is hard

 

[PacificRimJob]

But dude...like...its in our constitution to have the right to bear arms (tehe)...like bro are you a communist or something?

Plus...like think of all the mass shootings stopped by others who were armed...oh wait nevermind.

Ah yes the "well lets arm ourselves to protect ourselves" idea.

Sounds like a huge mexican standoff to me... and we all know people in real life are never as rational as those in Tarantino movies... That will just lead to shootouts in the fucking street or in schools, or wherever else... Thats all fine and dandy if everyone shot like stormtroopers or if bullets were made out of bunny fur... but real guns aren't nerf guns, and real shootouts will happen, and turn all of America into 2005 Baghdad or 1980's Beirut.

If you really want all of America to turn into the O.K. Corral, then I don't know, man. haha. Anyone who actually thinks like that probably SHOULD check themselves in...

 

[PacificRimJob]

Math is hard

Lol. Million*

 

[Campeador]

To all those who say "people kill people" and that shit, I retort -People would find it pretty hard to go on a 'mass stabbing' with a knife.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/world/asia/30china.html?_r=0

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/asia/china-railway-attack/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/19/us-australia-crime-murder-idUSKBN0JX09620141219

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-details-in-stabbing-deaths-of-5-oklahoma-family-members/

http://time.com/55356/at-least-20-stabbed-at-pa-high-school/

Knife control?

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/11/knives-kill-more-people-each-year-than-rifles-time-for-knife-control/

So to be clear, why kind of guns should be banned? I want specifics. Also, the so-called "automatic weapons" you're talking about are all semi-auto. Moreover, your number of dead Americans is a misleading statistic, since it also includes suicides.

While certain requirements make sense, those who fight for the 2nd amendment know all too well that the ultimate goal of the gun control push is a full ban like in the UK or Australia. Australia of course has no gun murders...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-03/nsw-police-headquarters-gunman-was-radicalised-youth/6825028

And ever notice that "gun-free zones" are almost always targeted? Little talk of that.

Also, heavy gun control doesn't seem to be doing much for Chicago.

http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings

 

[iFlip]

You are incredibly naïve.

 

[Dadcore]

Also, heavy gun control doesn't seem to be doing much for Chicago.

http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings

Says as if there arent two gun stores each a mile away from me in the suburbs

 

[safety.third]

And ever notice that "gun-free zones" are almost always targeted? Little talk of that.

im under the impression that that correlation has more to do with soliciting a greater emotional response while seeking more media attention for the act rather than security

 

[wazawski]

If 5% of the worlds population has about half of the guns in the entire world, obviously there are going to be far more gun related deaths. I'm not here to debate, I just want a counter argument to this because I'm not really anti-gun, I've just never heard a logical response to the fact that Americas gun related deaths (even without counting suicide) are far higher than anywhere else in the world. Like waaaaay more.

 

[SkiBum.]

Oh fuck off with this shit.

 

[arnie_grape]

meh its only half a million, we have 320.5 million more! plus I need my guns for protection. ain't nobody gonna have a mass shootin in mah house THIS IS AMERICUH. plus I need them if anyone crosses me or hurts my feelings.

 

[.Duncan.]

Once guns are banned whats stopping people who want attention from buying ammonium nitrate and some fuel oil and lighting that up in a crowded area. If people want to kill others they will figure out ways to do it. As well you don't seem to realize that improving mental healthcare is incredibly more likely to happen than changing a part of the bill of rights that millions of americans strongly support.

 

[S.J.W]

Once guns are banned whats stopping people who want attention from buying ammonium nitrate and some fuel oil and lighting that up in a crowded area. If people want to kill others they will figure out ways to do it. As well you don't seem to realize that improving mental healthcare is incredibly more likely to happen than changing a part of the bill of rights that millions of americans strongly support.

That argument would work if every other country that banned guns saw an increase in bombings, but no country has saw an increase in bombings due to a banning of guns. Fact is these mass shooters choose guns because they are available, easy to use and they work.

And as for mental health. This is a point republicans bring up a fair bit. But every republican opposes Obamacare or investing more into health.

What would be the best option would be adopting a system like Switzerland. Make owning a gun a privilege not a right. Make every person who wishes to own a gun go through extensive mental and physical background checks. Mandatory training. Limiting the amount of ammo you can buy, among other practices. America loves guns. Guns aren't going away any time soon so banning them isn't a realistic option.

 

[selfiejesus]

over 500000 gun deaths have happened in the USA since 1997. More than both world wars. combined. Think about that for just a second. not even 2 decades, and there have been over half a MILLION americans killed by firearms.**This thread was edited on Oct 4th 2015 at 3:05:27pm

yeah but about 60% of those are suicides.

 

[SFB]

banning certain types of guns will not change anything.

 

[Willard]

Most drugs are banned yet everyone is still getting high. As much as i like the idea it's not gonna stop all these shootings. I think i know just one person who doesn't own multiple guns. Teachers should go through training programs and keep a gun somewhere close. Gun violence will never end and i would rather have something to fire back with. #Montana

 

[Willard]

Yes, because if drugs weren't banned the number of users wouldn't skyrocket.

So many poorly though-out posts in NSG.

Drugs are quite a bit different then guns. Its a very basic comparison mainly referring to Nixon/Reagan and the fantastic War On Drugs. Long story short nothing really happened. The bad guys will forever have guns.

 

[.Duncan.]

That argument would work if every other country that banned guns saw an increase in bombings, but no country has saw an increase in bombings due to a banning of guns. Fact is these mass shooters choose guns because they are available, easy to use and they work.

And as for mental health. This is a point republicans bring up a fair bit. But every republican opposes Obamacare or investing more into health.

What would be the best option would be adopting a system like Switzerland. Make owning a gun a privilege not a right. Make every person who wishes to own a gun go through extensive mental and physical background checks. Mandatory training. Limiting the amount of ammo you can buy, among other practices. America loves guns. Guns aren't going away any time soon so banning them isn't a realistic option.

I feel like the possibility is their in those countries but I have no idea why it doesn't happen. Even then, mass shootings are barely an issue in overall gun crime, I think I read the other day that 90% or more of gun homicides are using a handgun and that most of those deaths happen because of drug deals gone bad or other shit associated with gangs. Given the opposition to any sensible changes to gun laws I think groups should focus on stopping the drug war and improving mental health resources and if those don't have significant effects the arguments toward strict gun laws become much more compelling.

 

[deleted5]

Knife control?

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/11/knives-kill-more-people-each-year-than-rifles-time-for-knife-control/

[/url]

Nice try five times as many murders were committed with knives than were committed with RIFLES Last year.

Also we shouldn't ban any guns have a bazooka if you want pass a background check, prI've you're responsible and have a doctor say your not crazy.

 

[Spagett+]

Math is hard

This post changed my life

 

[PacificRimJob]

your number of dead Americans is a misleading statistic, since it also includes suicides.

yeah but about 60% of those are suicides.

Okay, sooo lets say it's 200,000 people killed from guns.

That's still the same deathtoll that a tactical nuclear strike would have on your average major US city. admittedly that's over 1.5ish decades, but still. That's outright appalling that that many gun deaths occur from homicide or accident, or any other non-purposefully self-inflicted gunshot.

 

[PacificRimJob]

That argument would work if every other country that banned guns saw an increase in bombings, but no country has saw an increase in bombings due to a banning of guns. Fact is these mass shooters choose guns because they are available, easy to use and they work.

And as for mental health. This is a point republicans bring up a fair bit. But every republican opposes Obamacare or investing more into health.

What would be the best option would be adopting a system like Switzerland. Make owning a gun a privilege not a right. Make every person who wishes to own a gun go through extensive mental and physical background checks. Mandatory training. Limiting the amount of ammo you can buy, among other practices. America loves guns. Guns aren't going away any time soon so banning them isn't a realistic option.

Yeah, honestly, i'm really not saying lets take away everyone's guns... I'm really just for implementing stricter restrictions, and regulations for them than we have. Close the gunshow loophole, make it so to buy a gun you have to go through the same kinda testing process for driving a car or motorcycle, etc. Crack down hard as shit on illegal firearms and those who own firearms without a license to use them, etc.

It's certainly not an easy task given American culture and how everyone and their mom has a gun already and would have to go through an admittedly shitty process to make it legal for them to retain useable ownership of their guns. People in Rural areas having to drive who knows how long/far into town over and over through the process in order to get their license on lock would be a fucking bullshit task, no doubt -

but they have to do it for the DMV or for court or for whatever else every so often so in all honesty, its not that big of a deal as far as I'm concerned. People will bitch that the government is middling with their way of life and yadda yaddah overstepping yadda yadda communism yaddah yaddah cry me a river... Would you rather be inconvenienced or see another school shooting on the news? That's what it comes down to...

Switzerland allows you to have a gun. Yes, they still have a crappier track record for gun deaths than most other 'fully developed' countries sans the USA, but it's still way as fuck better than what we've got out here.

 

[PacificRimJob]

Nice try five times as many murders were committed with knives than were committed with RIFLES Last year.

Which is why handguns and concealable weapons need to be especially regulated...

 

[PacificRimJob]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/world/asia/30china.html?_r=0

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/asia/china-railway-attack/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/19/us-australia-crime-murder-idUSKBN0JX09620141219

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-details-in-stabbing-deaths-of-5-oklahoma-family-members/

http://time.com/55356/at-least-20-stabbed-at-pa-high-school/

1. no deaths. Still horrifying.

2. 10 guys with guns could have done more damage in such a situation... Fish in a barrel situation it seems. Disgusting.

3. Fucked up... oof.

4. "A mass murder like this one isn't just unusual, it's unheard of" Insane.

5. Again no deaths. Guns probably would have lead to deaths. Still horrifying.

My point remains. Knives definitely can do some damage. They can definitely injure. They can absolutely kill. But guns make it just so much easier.

I'll let my favourite western of all time explain my point exactly.

**This post was edited on Oct 5th 2015 at 2:44:24am

 

[pow_pow~]

to have these mass shootings happen nearly every month and then do absolutely nothing about it. having your news presenters and politicians say that maybe the answer is more guns or armed guards, or teachers with guns. this thinking is just completely backwards. the rest of the developed world is looking at you in complete bewilderment as to how you have actually let this situation reach this level.

your incarceration rates are ridiculous.

you gun deaths are ridiculous.

your answer to both these problems? more guns and more prisons.

these types of mass shootings literally happen in no other western country this frequently, and when they did happen, serious and effective measures were brought in, e.g. australia in the 90s with Port Arthur. and guess what? hasn't been a mass shooting in australia since..

sort your shit out america.

 

[Campeador]

1. no deaths. Still horrifying.

2. 10 guys with guns could have done more damage in such a situation... Fish in a barrel situation it seems. Disgusting.

3. Fucked up... oof.

4. "A mass murder like this one isn't just unusual, it's unheard of" Insane.

5. Again no deaths. Guns probably would have lead to deaths. Still horrifying.

My point remains. Knives definitely can do some damage. They can definitely injure. They can absolutely kill. But guns make it just so much easier.

I'll let my favourite western of all time explain my point exactly.

**This post was edited on Oct 5th 2015 at 2:44:24am

Fair enough.

Like I said, I do think certain regulations make sense. But there is also a legitimate fear among gun owners that if they give an inch, the government will take a mile. Obama has even hinted that he believes in the models of Australia and the UK, full on confiscation, and that should give every American pause.

 

[Bombogenesis]

I would love to hear someone on the anti-gun side give me an answer to this question because I really think it's important...

How much do you think the media sensationalism of these events contributes to them happening? Do you think we'd have as many mass shootings if the media didn't blab about it 24/7 for days after and make the kid(s) who did it a household name?

 

[theabortionator]

One great way to reduce the gun deaths in the US is to legalize drugs. The drug war, and our unwillingness to acknowledge it's complete failure, is killing our country.

We complain about how horrible some of the border towns are. What is the prime reason? The drug war. People shooting each other in our cities over turf to sell drugs. Using the proceeds from the illicit drug trade to buy more guns to protect themselves, or use on the offensive to gain more turf.

It seems we don't really care about a large portion of the gun deaths until we're trying to make a point. We don't care about the violence in the inner cities. It's only news worthy if it's the suburbs, a school, a middle class family.

Also look at all the shit our government does. Arming rebel groups in countries around the world to overthrow elected officials that won't fall in line with what we want from them.

Perpetually being at war around the world. Now we're at war with "terrorism", so we can pretty much do anything anywhere for ever under that label.

Idk. It just doesn't seem like we give a fuck about most of the stuff going on. At that point, I don't see anything really changing.

 

[pow_pow~]

I would love to hear someone on the anti-gun side give me an answer to this question because I really think it's important...

How much do you think the media sensationalism of these events contributes to them happening? Do you think we'd have as many mass shootings if the media didn't blab about it 24/7 for days after and make the kid(s) who did it a household name?

as someone who is more on the anti gun side yes, obviously the media contributes massively to these events happening. but still, nothing is done.

even though the video i posted above was stand up comedy he makes extremely valid points.

if you have a gun in your house for protection, it is a risk around children.

if it is locked up as a responsible gun owner does it is obviously no good for protection.

 

[iH8pow]

I also blame media sensationalism. I have to try really hard to not ever have any idea about the shooter but unfortunately It's next to impossible. ESPN or bust

but,

if you don't like it, geeeeeeeeeeeeet out!

Gun shows are fucked. You know what else is fuked? The more people push for gun control, the more the demand for guns rises as do the going prices for guns and ammunition=more private party gun sales without background checks.

I'm really looking forward to this to push up prices, I will gladly sell my guns and ammo to the highest bidder and buy an S2000 with the money (of course, maybe Mustang GT would be more fitting)...

because, fucking AMERICA!

 

[onenerdykid]

I would love to hear someone on the anti-gun side give me an answer to this question because I really think it's important...

How much do you think the media sensationalism of these events contributes to them happening? Do you think we'd have as many mass shootings if the media didn't blab about it 24/7 for days after and make the kid(s) who did it a household name?

Regardless of which side of the gun debate you are on, I don't think anyone can argue that America's mass media outlets couldn't do a better job here. While news is important, they cling to sensationalism simply because it sells. When you can't separate facts from sensationalism, there will always be a problem.

With that said however, don't fall into the trap of making a causal argument. There are an extremely large amount of causal variables that must be present for any single event to happen, and the lack of any one of the causes prevents the event from taking place. Let's take for example this recent shooting. What are the causes that need to be present for the event to take place: shooter's mental instability, loose gun laws, medial sensationalism turning shooters into house hold names, his gun, his gun requiring ammunition, his gun being functional, the presence of potential victims to shoot at, physical laws of motion, gravity, etc. etc. If you examine this shooting by its causes, then you can see that removing any one of these from the equation stops the shooting from happening. Some are obvious, some may seem ridiculous, but they are all required in order for the event to happen. So, if you make the claim that the media has caused the shooter to shoot innocent people, that may be true but it is no truer than victims needing to be present as well.

We instead must look to who is negligent (who is at fault) and who acted illegally/immorally within the event. If we do that, we see that guns (in and of themselves) are not the problem and instead the will of the person wielding the gun is always going to be the main focus area, and additionally any other people who were at fault. This could be the media, if they acted negligently in some way. This could also be the government if they failed to provide their citizens with enough protection.

The media is a cause here for sure, but claiming they are a faulty party is a difficult conclusion to arrive at. If they have truly acted negligently, then yes they are partly to blame here. The government could also be partly to blame if they could have done more to prevent the wrong people from owning dangerous weapons. There is a stronger case for this than for the media being at blame, in my opinion. But I think we would all agree that the person pulling the trigger is the most to blame.

 

[Twinjibber77]

I'm keeping all my guns

 

[PacificRimJob]

I think we would all agree that the person pulling the trigger is the most to blame.

No shit..

But that's just the thing. That person who's willing to pull the trigger can't pull a trigger they don't have.

That person willing to pull the trigger won't pull the trigger if given adequate mental healthcare.

That person willing to pull the trigger needs to be taken care of, and not only are we not willing to limit their access to weapons, but we're also not willing to aid their access to the healthcare they need.

However, in a culture where guns are seen as positives and mental health is seen as a negative, this sort of thing will just keep on going - whether the media is involved heavily or not.

 

[onenerdykid]

No shit..

But that's just the thing. That person who's willing to pull the trigger can't pull a trigger they don't have.

That person willing to pull the trigger won't pull the trigger if given adequate mental healthcare.

That person willing to pull the trigger needs to be taken care of, and not only are we not willing to limit their access to weapons, but we're also not willing to aid their access to the healthcare they need.

However, in a culture where guns are seen as positives and mental health is seen as a negative, this sort of thing will just keep on going - whether the media is involved heavily or not.

I totally agree with your points, and if you've seen any of my other posts you will know that I am in favor of better gun control and a better healthcare system. The problem arises when people argue that if we completely remove guns from the equation, then we solve the problem (you are not specifically saying that, but some people are). That is just as absurd of conclusion to arrive at as saying, "well if people just stay at home, then they won't be shot in public", which is true. It's stupid, but it's true.

While the shooter is the most at fault, we must also blame the system that allows people like this to own guns. More checks/assessments/tests need to be done post-sale that can catch people who may have obtained their gun legally and (at the time of purchase) were mentally stable but X-years later they are not mentally stable. This is something we can do a better job of by requiring gun owners to perform yearly mental health exams and proving they know how to properly operate/care for/store their guns. There is all this talk about doing more checks prior to sale or limiting what kind of guns people can own, when there should be more discussion about having checks post-sale, which is what many other countries do that allow common citizens to own guns.

 

[50Kal]

When time and time again mass shootings happen we need to do something fucking different to see if it has any effect at all.

But time and time again I hear the same stupid responses from morons. "there gonna take are guns away!"

No politician in the fucking states is gonna ever take away the right to own a gun ever. It's never gonna happen. Period. Quit acting like this Germany in the 1930s and people were actually being carted away secretly. This is fucking America and guns arn't going anywhere.

If all we did was at least put a law in that says mandatory mental check for all High power/military grade weapons it would be a start. And close that fucking loop hole of gun shows that lets anyone buy a fucking gun regardless of violent criminal or mental state.

Oh and for the dipshit who claims it would have no effect and just gonna happen again no matter what we do, fuck you. Since 1998 are country hasn't gone 3 full years with out a mass shooting. That's a fucking terrible fucking statistic.

Whats more stupid is Australia and Switzerland is living proof that some form of new Gun laws would reduce Mass shootings.

And at the end of the day if even one person one was spared because of new laws would it not be worth it? What if that person was your family? Yourself?

Are you really so selfish that you wouldn't give up the time it takes to do a god dam background check, just make sure the crazy and violent people don't get really good guns and go on a mass shooting?

 

[louie.mirags]

why are there two threads on the front page about the same topic? Let's stay in the pocket here

 

[PearTree-Prod]

Once again another ignorant gun control post thinking taking away the 2nd amendment is the answer. Even if gun control laws are more heavily enforced people will still find ways to get illegal weapons on the black market. Then what happens? People with 6 round assault rifles vs people with full auto 30 round assault rifles? Yeah that seems like the right answer. If you take a look at all the recent shootings, it is because mentally unstable people have free access to guns. I will admit it is too easy to go out and get weapons especially at gun shows and that is what should be changed. Anytime you purchase a weapon you should have a background check performed on you. Also if your child lives with you and they are mentally unstable, they should not have access to weapons. This is where the root of the issue lies. In my house we have a safe where every single one of our weapons lays. The only two people that know the combination to the safe are my parents so even if i wanted to take out some of the weapons i would not be able to. This is how it should be in every household. Granted some people may want to keep a weapon out like a .45 based upon where you live, it should still be kept in a safe and secure location. Also requiring people to take a course to purchase weapons wont fix anything. Weapons aren't very complicated and most people who use them have undergone training and know how to properly use them. Making people take a course or restricting magazine size of restricting access to guns wont solve this issue. The only way to solve this is to prevent guns from getting in the wrong hands. This can only be done by background checks and having gun owners safely and securely store their weapons.

 

[louie.mirags]

Banning guns does not fix the problem of mental illness in our country. Not mental illness as in somebody with Asperger's is shooting up schools. Mental illness as in people with broken minds. Wanting to shoot up a school and actually doing it is a rare occurrence. We need to figure out what is destroying these murderer's brains and causing them to actually shoot innocent people. If somebody has the motive to do harm, no law against buying guns is going to stop them from being destructive.

 

[onenerdykid]

The only way to solve this is to prevent guns from getting in the wrong hands. This can only be done by background checks and having gun owners safely and securely store their weapons.

And I would add to your points mental health exams & firearm safety checks done after the sale of the gun has happened. Let's make sure people who were fit to own a gun when they purchased are still fit to do so later on in life.

If somebody has the motive to do harm, no law against buying guns is going to stop them from being destructive.

True but guns do give these people one of the easiest ways to carry out their sick plans. Any one of these people have shown they possess the skills to fire a gun, but I wonder how many could make a bomb, which while surprising easy, does require more thought and planning than pulling a trigger. And ultimately, any country that has either improved gun control laws or banned certain weapons, they don't have a spike in explosive attacks or people hijacking buses or trains or other ways to cause mass amounts of death. We just don't see it.

 

[louie.mirags]

True but guns do give these people one of the easiest ways to carry out their sick plans. Any one of these people have shown they possess the skills to fire a gun, but I wonder how many could make a bomb, which while surprising easy, does require more thought and planning than pulling a trigger. And ultimately, any country that has either improved gun control laws or banned certain weapons, they don't have a spike in explosive attacks or people hijacking buses or trains or other ways to cause mass amounts of death. We just don't see it.

I will not disagree that guns make it easier to carry out their plans. However, I do not want to ignore the fact that the American culture has a negative side effect that results in broken people wanting to murder innocent people.

 

[onenerdykid]

I will not disagree that guns make it easier to carry out their plans. However, I do not want to ignore the fact that the American culture has a negative side effect that results in broken people wanting to murder innocent people.

Very true, but we're also not special in that regard. Other countries for sure face the same issue, but they deal with it very differently/better than we do. They also do more than us to prevent such things from happening.

 

[onLINE]

Pro gun people need to learn to live with the consequences of the country and culture they have created and stop bitching on the internet.

 

[Lus146]

A few years ago my school had a shooting too so this kinda hits at home for me a little bit. I agree with what you're saying completely. I know that a lot of people are into guns and they're a hobby but what we have right now isn't enough. Background checks don't do shit. If I really wanted to I could go and buy a gun and do whatever with it because I have no priors. Most of the time the people committing these crimes are doing it for the first time so they don't really have a problem getting guns. Then they go to jail for life and they can't get them anymore. Great, one person is in jail. Not that that isn't a victory there are still thousands of people with guns that are willing/want to commit crimes. Also, if people really want to get guns, they can get them. Weed is illegal and half the people on this website smoke it. But if guns were made illegal it would be way harder to get a hold of them and so the less hardcore criminals aren't able to murder/injure anyone. Downvote this all you want I stand by my opinion that other than for trained professionals, guns should be banned in America.

 

[No.Quarter]

I totally agree with the need for stricter background checks and such, but honestly that wouldn't stop most of these mass shooters. I'm sure most of those fucks would be able to bullshit their way through any tests you put them through. I had a few interactions with the shooter from my school a couple years before shit happened, and I have no doubt that he would be able to get through some background and mental tests without showing his cards. For the most part, these fuckers aren't dumb people.

The problem isn't how easy it is to get guns, and if stricter gun control laws were put into effect, people will still get guns, it's just the same as buying illegal drugs.

The problem is these suicidal fucks who get to be celebrities for doing what they do. All they want is attention, and they get that attention.

In my own opinion, the snowball of media attention and the desire for this attention has gotten so big that it really cant be stopped.

All in all there are a few too many fucked up people in the US, be it pro gun control people, anti gun control, the mentally insane, the media, etc. and there really isn't much we can do about it just because this is America.

 

[saskskier]

I would love to hear someone on the anti-gun side give me an answer to this question because I really think it's important...

How much do you think the media sensationalism of these events contributes to them happening? Do you think we'd have as many mass shootings if the media didn't blab about it 24/7 for days after and make the kid(s) who did it a household name?

I would say it could be the tipping point for someone who is already on the pathway to doing something, but I wouldn't say it is the primary cause. Everyone in the violent risk threat assessment world agrees that the two weeks following a high profile event like a school shooting, along with anniversary's of these events are at a much higher risk of another event happening. (that was a little jumbled, but I hope it makes some kind of sense). While most school shooters are copy-cats and may be influenced by media coverage of other school shootings or violent high profile events, it's not always the case.

Ultimately, school shooters (be it elementary to post secondary) have a ton of things going on in their lives prior to going and shooting up a school. They are incredibly complex cases and anyone who thinks that they can just be blamed on gun availability, mental health or bullying is over simplifying the whole topic.

 

[louie.mirags]

They are incredibly complex cases and anyone who thinks that they can just be blamed on gun availability, mental health or bullying is over simplifying the whole topic.

this is very true

 

[Bombogenesis]

I would say it could be the tipping point for someone who is already on the pathway to doing something, but I wouldn't say it is the primary cause. Everyone in the violent risk threat assessment world agrees that the two weeks following a high profile event like a school shooting, along with anniversary's of these events are at a much higher risk of another event happening. (that was a little jumbled, but I hope it makes some kind of sense). While most school shooters are copy-cats and may be influenced by media coverage of other school shootings or violent high profile events, it's not always the case.

Ultimately, school shooters (be it elementary to post secondary) have a ton of things going on in their lives prior to going and shooting up a school. They are incredibly complex cases and anyone who thinks that they can just be blamed on gun availability, mental health or bullying is over simplifying the whole topic.

Yeah i I definitely agree with this completely

 

[arnie_grape]

Ultimately, school shooters (be it elementary to post secondary) have a ton of things going on in their lives prior to going and shooting up a school. They are incredibly complex cases and anyone who thinks that they can just be blamed on gun availability, mental health or bullying is over simplifying the whole topic.

yes but if you don't allow nutters access to the guns beforehand it controls the risk (you know, unless its for protection, right?)

say a mentally unstable person cracks, it makes it a lot easier for them to act when they pass by 3 gun stores on the way to work/school.

people are crazy no matter what. but maybe if they had to go to a street dealer for weapons they would be less inclined to purchase one and use it.

 

[Squirrel_Murphy]

I'm just gonna leave this here.

• Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

• Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

• Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

• Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

• Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

• Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

• Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

• Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

• A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

• Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

• A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

• Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

• TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

• Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

• James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

• Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

• Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

• Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

• Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

• Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

• Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

• Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

• Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

• Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

• Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

• Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")

• Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

• Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

• Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

• Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

• Woody __, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

• A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

• Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

• Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

• Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

• Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

• Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

• Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.

Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....

• What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az?

• What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado?

• What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or?

• What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct?

 

[skierman]

I'm just gonna leave this here.

Just to shorten up your point a bit... Yeah they were all on prescription drugs because they were fucked up in the head. The issue at hand is despite these people being so fucked up, they were all able to access firearms and ammunition LEGALLY. In a rare few cases, they obtained the firearms/ammunition from someone close to them who should not have owned a firearm in the first place.

They didn't throw pills really fucking hard at people to kill them and not everyone on Prozac is out on a murderous rampage. If anything, the prescription drugs all these psychos were on shows how pathetic our gun control laws are in this country for no fucking reason whatsoever. When you can obtain a driver's license much easier than a firearm, you know something is messed up... especially in Utah because the drivers here are terrible.