Not Another Mass Shooting...

13520460:jblaski said:
Everyone LOVE the headlines where some piece of shit goes nuts and kills a bunch of people, yet, for some odd reason, no one seems to cover the headlines where a responsible gun owner stops a criminal and prevents the injury or deaths to innocent people.
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That's because it's usually the police who are awarded with that sort of heroism so to speak... and there's plenty of news about police stopping idiots before they hurt or at least hurt more people...
 
13520460:jblaski said:
Everyone LOVE the headlines where some piece of shit goes nuts and kills a bunch of people, yet, for some odd reason, no one seems to cover the headlines where a responsible gun owner stops a criminal and prevents the injury or deaths to innocent people.

That needs to change.
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20151012/PC16/151019801/1006/report-robber-fired-first
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How about we cover how if you have a gun in your home you're more likely to use it on a partner, yourself, or having your kid pull the trigger than you are on an intruder
 
13521934:S.J.W said:
How about we cover how if you have a gun in your home you're more likely to use it on a partner, yourself, or having your kid pull the trigger than you are on an intruder
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its a pretty rare occurence, if your really worried about that dont keep a gun in your house, but just because some dumb or crazy people fuck up doesnt mean you can infringe on my right to defend myself.
 
13521968:SFB said:
its a pretty rare occurence, if your really worried about that dont keep a gun in your house, but just because some dumb or crazy people fuck up doesnt mean you can infringe on my right to defend myself.
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NO ONE IS FUCKING SAYING TAKE AWAY EVERY SINGLE GUN IN AMERICA. ALL PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR IS MORE RESTRICTIONS SO THIS SHIT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

Look at Switzerland for example. They have guns, but not the amount of gun related incidents that Amrica has. Now why is that? It surely couldn't be their strict gun control measures.
 
13521989:S.J.W said:
ALL PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR IS MORE RESTRICTIONS SO THIS SHIT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

.
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Lol yeah because if you put some restrictions on the laws there will never be another shooting again. simple as that, right?
 
13521997:erikK said:
Lol yeah because if you put some restrictions on the laws there will never be another shooting again. simple as that, right?
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Has worked pretty well in every other country...
 
13521999:S.J.W said:
Has worked pretty well in every other country...
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Other countries don't have the access to the amount of guns that Americans do. If you think that harsher gun control will do anything, you're an idiot. Theres millions and millions of guns in the system. Even if they were banned, do you know how easy it would be to get one? Theres more ways to get guns than at the store. Its the same with marijuana. Its not legal, yet very easy to get your hands on. If a criminal wants a gun, a simple law will not stop him from doing so
 
13522006:gnar_whal said:
Other countries don't have the access to the amount of guns that Americans do. If you think that harsher gun control will do anything, you're an idiot. Theres millions and millions of guns in the system. Even if they were banned, do you know how easy it would be to get one? Theres more ways to get guns than at the store. Its the same with marijuana. Its not legal, yet very easy to get your hands on. If a criminal wants a gun, a simple law will not stop him from doing so
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I think it's an even dumber statement to say gun control will have no effect on the shootings. The fact that you use the absolute amd think nothing will change means you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
13522020:nocturnal said:
I think it's an even dumber statement to say gun control will have no effect on the shootings. The fact that you use the absolute amd think nothing will change means you have no idea what you're talking about.
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I think you're mistaken, and honestly you don't know what you're talking about. Will harsher gun control restrict more people and possible criminals from buying guns? It might. But what about the guns that people already have? There are about 300 million guns in the United States, and over 1/3 of Americans are gun owners. If someone decides they want to go to a crowded movie theater and shoot everyone, they will, and they will be able to get their hands on a gun without breaking a sweat. I don't know why people do not understand this, but gun control won't do anything for a criminal who is motivated to kill people. Getting your hands on a gun is much easier than you think, and there are certainly more ways to do so than going to the store and buying one. And this "gun free zone" bullshit? That just gives them something to aim for.
 
This debate is pointless.

You come in here with statistical evidence, and the answer you get is "Nope. You're wrong, I know better."

People won't hear what they don't want to hear. It's like debating the science of evolution, guess what, there actually shouldn't even be a debate. Good thing is that now I have a better understanding of Galileo's struggle.

Only in America.
 
13522039:gnar_whal said:
I think you're mistaken, and honestly you don't know what you're talking about. Will harsher gun control restrict more people and possible criminals from buying guns? It might. But what about the guns that people already have? There are about 300 million guns in the United States, and over 1/3 of Americans are gun owners. If someone decides they want to go to a crowded movie theater and shoot everyone, they will, and they will be able to get their hands on a gun without breaking a sweat. I don't know why people do not understand this, but gun control won't do anything for a criminal who is motivated to kill people. Getting your hands on a gun is much easier than you think, and there are certainly more ways to do so than going to the store and buying one. And this "gun free zone" bullshit? That just gives them something to aim for.
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Okay so the gun is easy to get. What about the ammo? How will they get the ammo? And especially so much ammo to commit a mass murder like Columbine.
 
13522039:gnar_whal said:
I think you're mistaken, and honestly you don't know what you're talking about. Will harsher gun control restrict more people and possible criminals from buying guns? It might. But what about the guns that people already have? There are about 300 million guns in the United States, and over 1/3 of Americans are gun owners. If someone decides they want to go to a crowded movie theater and shoot everyone, they will, and they will be able to get their hands on a gun without breaking a sweat. I don't know why people do not understand this, but gun control won't do anything for a criminal who is motivated to kill people. Getting your hands on a gun is much easier than you think, and there are certainly more ways to do so than going to the store and buying one. And this "gun free zone" bullshit? That just gives them something to aim for.
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If you take guns out of people's hands, (like they did in Australia from the mandatory buy back) less people are going to die from guns that's basic math and statistics. Nobody is saying banning guns that seems to be the conclusion you're coming to whenever anybody tries to be reasonable the conversation. But why don't you post up some statistics that gun laws don't affect death in any way shape or form.
 
13522125:S.J.W said:
Okay so the gun is easy to get. What about the ammo? How will they get the ammo? And especially so much ammo to commit a mass murder like Columbine.
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It's actually very easy to get ammo I have a friend who's a rifle engineer, and he makes his own bullets because it saves him money.
 
13522128:nocturnal said:
If you take guns out of people's hands, (like they did in Australia from the mandatory buy back) less people are going to die from guns that's basic math and statistics. Nobody is saying banning guns that seems to be the conclusion you're coming to whenever anybody tries to be reasonable the conversation. But why don't you post up some statistics that gun laws don't affect death in any way shape or form.
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So....You're not saying that you want to ban guns, right? You're just saying that you want to "take guns out of people's hands".

What's the difference exactly?
 
13522134:nocturnal said:
It's actually very easy to get ammo I have a friend who's a rifle engineer, and he makes his own bullets because it saves him money.
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Didn't know you could do that to be honest.

But how many of these mass shooters could make their own bullets? Let alone enough to necessitate a mass shooting. These shooters choose guns because they're available and they're easy.
 
13522135:jblaski said:
So....You're not saying that you want to ban guns, right? You're just saying that you want to "take guns out of people's hands".

What's the difference exactly?
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I didn't say that at all, what I said was gun control will definitely affect statistics of gun deaths that guy said it wouldnt. The mandatory buybacks in Australia didn't take guns out of all people hands.

You should register your gone have a background check and a psychological test, and you need to be responsible every year to keep your gun. Fail to do any of these things and I think you should lose your right to own a gun. Like when David lesh shot his gun out of a moving vehicle. Boom gun rights revoked.
 
13522138:S.J.W said:
Didn't know you could do that to be honest.

But how many of these mass shooters could make their own bullets? Let alone enough to necessitate a mass shooting. These shooters choose guns because they're available and they're easy.
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The issue here is not people being able to make their own bullets or ban all guns. the issue is how somebody can post on the internet I'm going to shoot up a school and that household has guns in it. Those are the times some kind of agency needs to be made somebody needs to visit that house and say we need to investigate this everything is being taken away. And if you somehow you left your gun out and someone else got a hold of it you should also be responsible for what happens. People need to be responsible and aware and when they're not they need to have their rights revoked.
 
13522128:nocturnal said:
If you take guns out of people's hands, (like they did in Australia from the mandatory buy back) less people are going to die from guns that's basic math and statistics. Nobody is saying banning guns that seems to be the conclusion you're coming to whenever anybody tries to be reasonable the conversation. But why don't you post up some statistics that gun laws don't affect death in any way shape or form.
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Ok, that's cool. Explain to me how you're going to "take guns out of people's hands" exactly. You can't do that. I have a right to own a gun, and you can't infringe on my rights. 2nd amendment: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

and to the person above, making bullets yourself is easy.
 
13522138:S.J.W said:
Didn't know you could do that to be honest.

But how many of these mass shooters could make their own bullets? Let alone enough to necessitate a mass shooting. These shooters choose guns because they're available and they're easy.
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I could go into chain sporting goods store (Dicks, Cabella's, Scheels, Gander Mountain) and buy re-loading equipment tonight, and have 1000 rounds made up by the morning.
 
13522144:gnar_whal said:
Ok, that's cool. Explain to me how you're going to "take guns out of people's hands" exactly. You can't do that. I have a right to own a gun, and you can't infringe on my rights. 2nd amendment: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

and to the person above, making bullets yourself is easy.
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You realize it's called an amendment and we can make a change. To a well regulated sane responsible militia. So just for the record you can't post up a statistic or respond to any of the points of my argument.
 
13522143:nocturnal said:
The issue here is not people being able to make their own bullets or ban all guns. the issue is how somebody can post on the internet I'm going to shoot up a school and that household has guns in it. Those are the times some kind of agency needs to be made somebody needs to visit that house and say we need to investigate this everything is being taken away. And if you somehow you left your gun out and someone else got a hold of it you should also be responsible for what happens. People need to be responsible and aware and when they're not they need to have their rights revoked.
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So now you want some sort of internet gun police, to watch every single post on the internet for someone who makes some sort of threat online? NS has about 150,000 members, and I'm guessing into the 10's of thousands of posts daily. How many internet gun police should be assigned to this website? Reddit has multiple millions of users and probably millions of posts per day. How many internet gun cops should watch that site?

Or maybe develop a program that flags every single post on the internet that uses the word "gun" or "shoot" or "school". And then some guys can review each post when it comes in and determines if it's a threat or not.
 
13522149:jblaski said:
So now you want some sort of internet gun police, to watch every single post on the internet for someone who makes some sort of threat online? NS has about 150,000 members, and I'm guessing into the 10's of thousands of posts daily. How many internet gun police should be assigned to this website? Reddit has multiple millions of users and probably millions of posts per day. How many internet gun cops should watch that site?

Or maybe develop a program that flags every single post on the internet that uses the word "gun" or "shoot" or "school". And then some guys can review each post when it comes in and determines if it's a threat or not.
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You are completely and totally not understanding what I'm saying. Just like the DMV and a drivers license. If somebody in your house gets diagnosed with schizophrenia then yes somebody should take away your guns. If you're irresponsible with your guns yes somebody should take them away and you can go to a hearing to try to argue in front of a judge to get them back. Just like we do with cars. No we shouldn't have cops police the Internet. But we should be checking up on people who own guns. Just like how you have to get your driver's license renewed or re register your car.
 
13522153:jblaski said:
I used quotation marks in my reply because I LITERALLY quoted you word-for-word. Yes, you did say that.
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Now read the next sentence in my post because context is extraodinarily important. What I said was you're taking what I said out of context. But banning all guns tomorrow would definitely somehow affect the statistics of gun deaths. What I didn't say was, that means we should then ban all guns. I think you can agree with me that we shouldn't do that, but if we did do it gun deaths would go down over time.

Not mass shootings or all crime would stop, but that less people would die a year from guns if we took guns out of circulation, and there are less guns available.
 
how can anyone possibly be against mandatory registration, back ground and mental checks...

the majority of guns in the hands of criminals these days were once legally purchased within the united states, which means, somewhere along the life of that gun a "responsible" owner fucked up.

also, your 2nd amendment is just that, and amendment aka a change. it can be changed again, to stay current, if need be.
 
13522323:pow_pow~ said:
how can anyone possibly be against mandatory registration, back ground and mental checks...

the majority of guns in the hands of criminals these days were once legally purchased within the united states, which means, somewhere along the life of that gun a "responsible" owner fucked up.

also, your 2nd amendment is just that, and amendment aka a change. it can be changed again, to stay current, if need be.
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I am not against it. Im saying that if you think background and mental checks will be effective as you think theyll be , think again. Let's take this Recent Oregon shooter. Before the shooting, he was a normal guy, who liked collecting guns. Was he a criminaL before the shooting? No. Did he have mental issues? After the shooting, we would say yes, but before that, any mental issues? No.

It's more than simply requiring people to take background checks and mental tests.

And like I said before, even if these checks and tests kept a potential criminal from getting a gun, there are definitely other ways to get guns. If you're motivated criminal, you can even build one yourself.
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/ak-47-semi-automatic-rifle-building-party
 
13522327:gnar_whal said:
I am not against it. Im saying that if you think background and mental checks will be effective as you think theyll be , think again. Let's take this Recent Oregon shooter. Before the shooting, he was a normal guy, who liked collecting guns. Was he a criminaL before the shooting? No. Did he have mental issues? After the shooting, we would say yes, but before that, any mental issues? No.

It's more than simply requiring people to take background checks and mental tests.

And like I said before, even if these checks and tests kept a potential criminal from getting a gun, there are definitely other ways to get guns. If you're motivated criminal, you can even build one yourself.
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/ak-47-semi-automatic-rifle-building-party
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Which, again, is why we need checks done post-sale. Background checks and mental health exams should still be done prior to sale, but then every year gun owners should pass safety & ownership courses and mental health exams like other countries that allow their common citizens to own guns. Doing this is a huge step in the right direction that allows people to continue to have their right to own guns but also takes the steps to stop the wrong people from owning guns, even if they were ok to do so when they bought the gun.
 
A mental health test wouldn't have detected that he was planning to shoot up a school. And for the post gun buy background checks, you arent understanding what I'm saying. They can get guns other ways besides buying them at a store, therefore owning them without anyone else knowing, and avoiding background checks and mental health tests. If you don't buy a gun at a store there's no way to know who has a gun and who doesn't. And as I said before, with over 300 million guns in the system, it's easy to get your hands on a gun without buying one from the store , allowing you to avoid background checks and mental health tests
 
13522435:gnar_whal said:
A mental health test wouldn't have detected that he was planning to shoot up a school. And for the post gun buy background checks, you arent understanding what I'm saying. They can get guns other ways besides buying them at a store, therefore owning them without anyone else knowing, and avoiding background checks and mental health tests. If you don't buy a gun at a store there's no way to know who has a gun and who doesn't. And as I said before, with over 300 million guns in the system, it's easy to get your hands on a gun without buying one from the store , allowing you to avoid background checks and mental health tests
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How are you certain that a mental health check would not have red flagged this shooter? Yes, I am sure that fantastic criminal minds could Keyser Söze their way around it, but I am sure that more than a few people would be prevented from owning guns.

I left out that people ought to register their guns. Owning or being in possession of a non-registered gun ought to then be punishable in a way that people could lose their right to own guns. Obviously, this would not help this situation in regards to guns that are bought illegally but it would help on the side of private sales and at least put more reasonable checks in place. Plus, many (if not the majority) of these shootings took place with legally purchased firearms. To assume that these people all of a sudden will find a black-market connection is not very likely.
 
13522485:onenerdykid said:
How are you certain that a mental health check would not have red flagged this shooter? Yes, I am sure that fantastic criminal minds could Keyser Söze their way around it, but I am sure that more than a few people would be prevented from owning guns.

I left out that people ought to register their guns. Owning or being in possession of a non-registered gun ought to then be punishable in a way that people could lose their right to own guns. Obviously, this would not help this situation in regards to guns that are bought illegally but it would help on the side of private sales and at least put more reasonable checks in place. Plus, many (if not the majority) of these shootings took place with legally purchased firearms. To assume that these people all of a sudden will find a black-market connection is not very likely.
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All I will say is: if there's a will theres a way.
 
13522435:gnar_whal said:
A mental health test wouldn't have detected that he was planning to shoot up a school.
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Really are you a board certified psychologist and do you know whats done at these mental health tests? Oh you don't you're just completely and totally talking out of your ass?
 
13522653:nocturnal said:
Really are you a board certified psychologist and do you know whats done at these mental health tests? Oh you don't you're just completely and totally talking out of your ass?
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Thats not the point buddy. The point is, as I have stated several times, is that even if these "mental health tests" were instituted, they could be easily avoided by acquiring guns on the black market.
 
13522682:gnar_whal said:
Thats not the point buddy. The point is, as I have stated several times, is that even if these "mental health tests" were instituted, they could be easily avoided by acquiring guns on the black market.
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You want to post up some statistics because I don't believe a word you're saying, obviously I won't fix it overnight but in the long run it'll definitely make an impact.
 
13522751:nocturnal said:
You want to post up some statistics because I don't believe a word you're saying, obviously I won't fix it overnight but in the long run it'll definitely make an impact.
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Stop with this statistics horseshit. It takes a real idiot to not comprehend this. I don't need statistics.
 
13522751:nocturnal said:
You want to post up some statistics because I don't believe a word you're saying, obviously I won't fix it overnight but in the long run it'll definitely make an impact.
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And never did I say it wouldn't make an impact. I said it wouldn't make the impact you think it would.
 
13522628:gnar_whal said:
All I will say is: if there's a will theres a way.
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No doubt. But other countries have proven that there is a better system and their systems (gun control, healthcare, etc in total) demonstrate it.
 
13522762:gnar_whal said:
And never did I say it wouldn't make an impact. I said it wouldn't make the impact you think it would.
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Unilke every other country that has ever existed, that's using the same arguments your using right now. Youre opinion has been proven wrong many times over.

Also don't make assumptions and think you know what I think.
 
13522773:nocturnal said:
Unilke every other country that has ever existed, that's using the same arguments your using right now. Youre opinion has been proven wrong many times over.

Also don't make assumptions and think you know what I think.
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And, as I said before, other countries do not have access to the amount of guns that the United States does. They're already there, you can't take them out of the system
 
13522778:gnar_whal said:
And, as I said before, other countries do not have access to the amount of guns that the United States does. They're already there, you can't take them out of the system
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Again I would love to see a statistic on that because Australia has less guns but also a much lower population. You're throwing out opinions and not backing up anything you're saying.
 
13522877:nocturnal said:
Again I would love to see a statistic on that because Australia has less guns but also a much lower population. You're throwing out opinions and not backing up anything you're saying.
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Ok I'll give you statistics when you give me proof that your plan will work.
 
13522883:gnar_whal said:
Ok I'll give you statistics when you give me proof that your plan will work.
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Look at every other country that's ever executed that plan it worked there ya go proof. Tell me what's the basis of your thinking off of, expert knowledge on guns and sociology?
 
13522897:nocturnal said:
Look at every other country that's ever executed that plan it worked there ya go proof. Tell me what's the basis of your thinking off of, expert knowledge on guns and sociology?
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If you're thinking about Australia's buyback program, it wasn't optional. Citizens of Australia were FORCED to give up their guns to the government. They got paid a little. I can tell you that would definitely not work here.
 
13522897:nocturnal said:
Look at every other country that's ever executed that plan it worked there ya go proof. Tell me what's the basis of your thinking off of, expert knowledge on guns and sociology?
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You keep saying "look at these other countries". But in these other countries, after sweeping gun bans, violent crime went up at an alarming rate. Look at the cities in the US that have the most stringent gun laws, ALL these cities have by far the most violent crimes. Places that restrict or ban guns just give more power to the criminals while disarming the law abiding.
 
13522901:jblaski said:
You keep saying "look at these other countries". But in these other countries, after sweeping gun bans, violent crime went up at an alarming rate. Look at the cities in the US that have the most stringent gun laws, ALL these cities have by far the most violent crimes. Places that restrict or ban guns just give more power to the criminals while disarming the law abiding.
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OMG more people got beat up instead of shot how awful.
 
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