“ NO, SKIING ISN’T A WELCOME PLACE FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR”

[DesertStix]

Speaking to your first point, do you honestly think the local mountain town makes up the majority of riders on a given day? All we do is complain about our mountains being overrun by vacationers and families from out of state. I don’t know about your spot but where I ski, the mountain is 90 minutes from one of the largest cities in the USA with an extremely diverse population. The residents of that city are the ones who drive the business. It just so happens that it’s mostly white people driving up. The real question is why is that? Denver is another great example. Plenty of non-white people there too...

I think it speaks more so to the business models and ski/snowboard culture that are exclusive by nature.

The data like what has been shown on this thread shows that the hugest factor that comes into play is that the percentage of minorities, specifically black people in and around ski towns is very very low.

The barrier of entry with expensive gear and ticket prices is also ridiculously expensive which makes it hard for a lot of these people to try it out.

If you think you’re going to get these resorts to lower ticket prices then you are absolutely clueless. Rental companies and mountains always operate on a supply and demand basis.

If companies want to market towards minorities that’s cool. If mountains want to make programs to help people enjoy the hill easier than cool.

But at the end of the day most of the people on Newschoolers are just young kids or other people that simply just ski. I realize that there’s some people in the industry that are on here. But at the end of the day most people don’t hold any kind of executive power. So saying to be friendly and welcoming to minorities on the hill, and to help them feel accepted / call out racist jacked stuff you might hear or see, seems like something decent to suggest. Because that’s the furthest extent most of us are capable of helping.

 

[alpha.moose]

The data like what has been shown on this thread shows that the hugest factor that comes into play is that the percentage of minorities, specifically black people in and around ski towns is very very low.

The barrier of entry with expensive gear and ticket prices is also ridiculously expensive which makes it hard for a lot of these people to try it out.

If you think you’re going to get these resorts to lower ticket prices then you are absolutely clueless. Rental companies and mountains always operate on a supply and demand basis.

If companies want to market towards minorities that’s cool. If mountains want to make programs to help people enjoy the hill easier than cool.

But at the end of the day most of the people on Newschoolers are just young kids or other people that simply just ski. I realize that there’s some people in the industry that are on here. But at the end of the day most people don’t hold any kind of executive power. So saying to be friendly and welcoming to minorities on the hill, and to help them feel accepted / call out racist jacked stuff you might hear or see, seems like something decent to suggest. Because that’s the furthest extent most of us are capable of helping.

While I agree that there is data showing that mountain towns are predominately white that is not the data I was talking about and it certainly has not been determined to be the "hugest" factor. The scientific literature I am talking about goes beyond skiing and it shows that BIPOC experiences discrimination in nearly every component of society. We would be naive to assume that somehow the ski industry is immune from this.

You are putting words in my mouth. I never suggested any broad sweeping ideas. You are right in that executives in the ski industry will have to initiate broad change. I'll do my small part to make my voice heard when I am presented with a good idea though.

My point was that being nice to people won't fix a systemic problem like this, but I definitely encourage everyone to be nice especially when given the chance to welcome BIPOC to the hill. We need to acknowledge that systemic racism excludes people from skiing. What everyone can do about this issue varies depending on where you are at in life (like you correctly pointed out), but acknowledging that inequality affects our sport just like the rest of society without bullshit excuses and rationalization is something we could all do.

 

[Skiblade420]

Speaking to your first point, do you honestly think the local mountain town makes up the majority of riders on a given day? All we do is complain about our mountains being overrun by vacationers and families from out of state. I don’t know about your spot but where I ski, the mountain is 90 minutes from one of the largest cities in the USA with an extremely diverse population. The residents of that city are the ones who drive the business. It just so happens that it’s mostly white people driving up. The real question is why is that? Denver is another great example. Plenty of non-white people there too...

I think it speaks more so to the business models and ski/snowboard culture that are exclusive by nature.

Fair enough. Then look at my second point which is the wealth gap, which is a major deterrent. Like I said there’s already a supply and demand that resorts are fulfilling currently, so dropping prices isn’t going to happen necessarily.

I’m not sure if people think I’m arguing against more marketing to minorities or to more inclusion. I’m not at all and see that as valuable. What I’m saying is that for the most part our furthest reach extends to just simply being friendly to everyone on the mountain and calling bs out when you see it/being a standup character.

As far as when you mention exclusivity of snowboarding and skiing, I don’t think they are specifically racially exclusive. Yet exclusive to those who can afford it, and that brings this discussion way out of skiing and about society’s problems as a whole.

I find it interesting too that it seems like everyone on Newschoolers is in love with skiing so much they can’t comprehend some people never even think about it in the first place, and that’s across the board racially. A lot of people think it’s just straight up dorky.

 

[Chunderface]

Are you a minority?

This is a verbose post that is asking people to consider the intent of white people before simply validating the lived experiences of others. My question to your bit about "I don't feel it's racist..." is who the hell are you? You're apparently a blonde white guy... so I would suggest that you take a step back before asserting your opinion on something you don't experience. You do not get to say what is and isn't racist. Focusing on intent is a privilege that you experience. I'm sure you had great intentions posting this perspective but I don't think it's a stretch to say that by doing so you are risking suggesting that racism experienced by POC on the hill is not actually racist (this is called gaslighting) and that your experiences as a white blonde guy in Indonesia is somehow comparable to that of POC on the hill in USA (though you did sort of qualify that part with the "oh heck..." bit). I suggest white folks who feel similarly to you should reflect on why it's surprising or why you feel the need to comment on it instead of making a POC's problem that you're grappling with it vocally. And you being able to laugh off your experiences in Indonesia doesn't mean anything to anyone but you.

 

[Skiblade420]

Are you a minority?

He might be, he might not. But he definitely believes some people shouldn’t talk on a public forum based off their race. Hmmmm seems kind of reminiscent of the past that we supposedly want to do away with.

 

[SammyDubz]

It is incredible how every single facet of life needs to be brought back to race.

The higher ups want more control and fear in people, and the best way to do that is to create division.

At the end of the day these major ski towns have extremely low percentages of minorities, a clear reason why you see less of them on the hill amongst a few other factors that hold less weight.

If you keep pushing the narrative that this industry is completely or mostly racist then you’re seriously just causing more division.

There’s always going to be racists and assholes, and heck some old people are stuck in their ways and it sucks, but they’ll be phased out soon in 20 years.

just try to promote love and acceptance and if you see someone being an asshole or racist to someone then call them out. See a minority in the lift line or somewhere on the hill? Be nice, talk to them, make them feel welcome. (Realize bringing up their race might make them feel uncomfortable though haha)

peace.

”Preach love and be nice and 250 years of institutional racism will fix itself!”

You’re a dense mf huh

 

[AndrewGravesSV]

He might be, he might not. But he definitely believes some people shouldn’t talk on a public forum based off their race. Hmmmm seems kind of reminiscent of the past that we supposedly want to do away with.

He's literally the author of the original article dumbass. Read the rest of the thread and you'll see he appreciates that a discourse was started on NS.

You provided a defense for people commenting on someone's race off the bat at a ski resort in their home country and then compared it to your travels in rural areas. Most people in the US have seen BIPOCs before so shouldn't be be a novelty. If anyone is going out to do an activity where they aren't in the overwhelming majority group gets immediately othered then it doesn't make it seem welcoming regardless of intent

 

[Awelterego]

I understand your point. Even thought "majority" and "minority" is really based on statistics I can see why it would be interpreted as hierarchical.

The term bipoc, though doesn't really identify anyone through their own terms; instead of the context of whiteness, it's through the context of blackness. It really just sounds like a modern way to say "colored people", which to me is reinforced by how I've never seen a black or indigenous person refer to themselves bipoc—the term is used exclusively by white activists to talk about "people of color".

As long as we are generalizing people by their skin color, people will be discriminated against by it. I think the term "bipoc" is just another rehash of "colored people" that's not quite so hard on the ears.

So “women of color” (which inspired the POC acronym) was actually started by Black women as act of solidarity to stand united with other oppressed women’s groups. It’s language created and preferred by those that have been oppressed, not language created by whites or white activists. And the term has been around for 50 years (see below).

BIPOC terminology is a more specific qualifier intended to recognize the context of the Black and indigenous lived experience in America. Which, obviously, has been horrific.

 

[Skiblade420]

He's literally the author of the original article dumbass. Read the rest of the thread and you'll see he appreciates that a discourse was started on NS.

You provided a defense for people commenting on someone's race off the bat at a ski resort in their home country and then compared it to your travels in rural areas. Most people in the US have seen BIPOCs before so shouldn't be be a novelty. If anyone is going out to do an activity where they aren't in the overwhelming majority group gets immediately othered then it doesn't make it seem welcoming regardless of intent

If you actually spent the time to read what I said, I acknowledge that it shouldn’t be brought up, that I myself wouldn’t, and that I’m sure it’s uncomfortable to be in that position.

I was trying to point out that the people mentioning things like “you’re the first Asian skier I’ve seen up here” might not mean anything past the fact that you’re the first Asian skier they’ve seen. Which would clearly be a poor choice of words to say, but it doesn’t show they’re trying to other you, think poorly of your race, or think you shouldn’t be there.

Intent and context does matter, do they shout that you’re the first race they’ve seen doing something? Are they already in conversation with you and they mention it? Is it the first words from their mouths? Are they giving you stares?

Having grown up in a diverse area and being with a wide range of friends. I’m used to seeing crappy looks and stares and negative racial undertones. I’ve also had a few friends who legitimately are on such high alert that they have thought they’ve heard other friends saying the N word in certain conversations, which were actually never said. Or back to when people would look at us in restaurants in highschool, some of my friends would think it was because they were a minority but in reality it was probably because we were a bunch of loud idiots doing something obnoxious.

My point in bringing that up isn’t to defend ANY kind of racist behavior or that it doesn’t happen.

My point is that sometimes ill intent isn’t meant where we think it is and that since minorities do indeed face much opposition throughout their lives that it becomes easy to start thinking -

mentioning of race = racist person who doesn’t want me here.

 

[SammyDubz]

If you actually spent the time to read what I said, I acknowledge that it shouldn’t be brought up, that I myself wouldn’t, and that I’m sure it’s uncomfortable to be in that position.

I was trying to point out that the people mentioning things like “you’re the first Asian skier I’ve seen up here” might not mean anything past the fact that you’re the first Asian skier they’ve seen. Which would clearly be a poor choice of words to say, but it doesn’t show they’re trying to other you, think poorly of your race, or think you shouldn’t be there.

Intent and context does matter, do they shout that you’re the first race they’ve seen doing something? Are they already in conversation with you and they mention it? Is it the first words from their mouths? Are they giving you stares?

Having grown up in a diverse area and being with a wide range of friends. I’m used to seeing crappy looks and stares and negative racial undertones. I’ve also had a few friends who legitimately are on such high alert that they have thought they’ve heard other friends saying the N word in certain conversations, which were actually never said. Or back to when people would look at us in restaurants in highschool, some of my friends would think it was because they were a minority but in reality it was probably because we were a bunch of loud idiots doing something obnoxious.

My point in bringing that up isn’t to defend ANY kind of racist behavior or that it doesn’t happen.

My point is that sometimes ill intent isn’t meant where we think it is and that since minorities do indeed face much opposition throughout their lives that it becomes easy to start thinking -

mentioning of race = racist person who doesn’t want me here.

bruh

 

[AndrewGravesSV]

If you actually spent the time to read what I said, I acknowledge that it shouldn’t be brought up, that I myself wouldn’t, and that I’m sure it’s uncomfortable to be in that position.

I was trying to point out that the people mentioning things like “you’re the first Asian skier I’ve seen up here” might not mean anything past the fact that you’re the first Asian skier they’ve seen. Which would clearly be a poor choice of words to say, but it doesn’t show they’re trying to other you, think poorly of your race, or think you shouldn’t be there.

Intent and context does matter, do they shout that you’re the first race they’ve seen doing something? Are they already in conversation with you and they mention it? Is it the first words from their mouths? Are they giving you stares?

Having grown up in a diverse area and being with a wide range of friends. I’m used to seeing crappy looks and stares and negative racial undertones. I’ve also had a few friends who legitimately are on such high alert that they have thought they’ve heard other friends saying the N word in certain conversations, which were actually never said. Or back to when people would look at us in restaurants in highschool, some of my friends would think it was because they were a minority but in reality it was probably because we were a bunch of loud idiots doing something obnoxious.

My point in bringing that up isn’t to defend ANY kind of racist behavior or that it doesn’t happen.

My point is that sometimes ill intent isn’t meant where we think it is and that since minorities do indeed face much opposition throughout their lives that it becomes easy to start thinking -

mentioning of race = racist person who doesn’t want me here.

Completely agree with you that context matters and that our society ignores it because the topic requires a lot of nuance. We're talking about an article that says ski culture isn't welcoming to people who aren't white. Regardless of intent, nobody should bring up another persons race shortly after meeting them for the first time while at a ski mountain. Even with the best intent if the comment makes someone already out of their comfort zone not feel included then that is a barrier. I'm not saying its immediately racist but rather another barrier among many to feeling welcome in ski culture

 

[Skiblade420]

Completely agree with you that context matters and that our society ignores it because the topic requires a lot of nuance. We're talking about an article that says ski culture isn't welcoming to people who aren't white. Regardless of intent, nobody should bring up another persons race shortly after meeting them for the first time while at a ski mountain. Even with the best intent if the comment makes someone already out of their comfort zone not feel included then that is a barrier. I'm not saying its immediately racist but rather another barrier among many to feeling welcome in ski culture

Ok yes. I agree with all of that. It’s hard to express fully what I was trying to get at but sometimes things get lost in translation if it’s not in person. Have a good day dawg!

 

[muffMan.]

Awesome read man. I definitely can see some prejudice towards certain races. And especially coming from first hand experience like “Twinkie” is kind of alarming. I bet it can be very intimidating going into something like that.

I really have so say in this as I am a white guy, but i can definitely see it as an odd issue, and one that needs to be addressed, but I don’t know how.

I definitely see the thug skis as being really wack, the top sheet is some black guy and doesn’t sit well with me.

I hope skiing goes to the right direction and I believe it has started, but 88% is definitely not there

 

[dolanslebensraum]

“OMG THERES TOO MANY TUNA IN THE PACIFIC AND NOT ENOUGH IN THE ATLANTIC WE HAVE TO EVEN UP THE NUMBERS OR WERE ALL GONNA DIE”

Interesting people dont care about what races are doing what for leisure.

If you care then you arent an interesting person.

The author thinks ppl dont like him bc hes asian, when in reality its bc hes an uninteresting person and this article is proof of that.

 

[DesertStix]

Been waiting for your dumbass take

“OMG THERES TOO MANY TUNA IN THE PACIFIC AND NOT ENOUGH IN THE ATLANTIC WE HAVE TO EVEN UP THE NUMBERS OR WERE ALL GONNA DIE”

Interesting people dont care about what races are doing what for leisure.

If you care then you arent an interesting person.

The author thinks ppl dont like him bc hes asian, when in reality its bc hes an uninteresting person and this article is proof of that.

 

[Dustin.]

In the context of race conversations that’s exactly what it means. Lumping all non white individuals into a single group (ie “minorities”) is a binary frame of reference. White, not white.

read a fucking book dipshit

"the term minorities is defined through a white frame of reference".

That's because there are obviously vastly more white people than any other race, which is the definition of a majority. Your extravagant means of explaining it as a "white frame of reference" is a veiled attempt at intellectualism and a ridiculous attempt to justify "BIPOC" as anything other than another evolution of political speak.

Read a book, dipshit. It's fucking dumb to insinuate or define new meanings to simple words to suit your agenda or try to progress to the next level of obnoxious.

 

[DesertStix]

You know you may just...disagree lol and that’s fine. I totally get both sides I think he’s more getting at the idea of centering our nomenclature around whiteness being part of the larger problem. If I’m way off the mark, let me know OP.

"the term minorities is defined through a white frame of reference".

That's because there are obviously vastly more white people than any other race, which is the definition of a majority. Your extravagant means of explaining it as a "white frame of reference" is a veiled attempt at intellectualism and a ridiculous attempt to justify "BIPOC" as anything other than another evolution of political speak.

Read a book, dipshit. It's fucking dumb to insinuate or define new meanings to simple words to suit your agenda or try to progress to the next level of obnoxious.

 

[Dustin.]

You know you may just...disagree lol and that’s fine. I totally get both sides I think he’s more getting at the idea of centering our nomenclature around whiteness being part of the larger problem. If I’m way off the mark, let me know OP.

That’s exactly what I’m disputing though, this nomenclature is race agnostic. They are words with very simple and understandable definitions. If Hispanics made up 51% of the American population they would be the majority and all other races would be considered the minority. It is ridiculous to lump that into an agenda of proving racial bias or some kind of oppressive white language. It’s just not true.

 

[DesertStix]

You have an extremely valid point. Like I said, I believe I see where both of you are coming from. In my opinion, I have no place telling a group of people how to refer to themselves if it doesn’t affect me. When the “SJW’s” appropriate the usage, it really takes on a whole new life. And as a white guy, I suppose that’s where my place is to step in and say heyooo

I also believe we need a space for somewhat constructive criticism and dialogue in these sports that we are potentially gatekeeping. NS sure isn’t it. Just not seeing this situation progressing while we sling mud at each other online.

Regardless, thanks for your intelligent response and solid contribution to the conversation.

That’s exactly what I’m disputing though, this nomenclature is race agnostic. They are words with very simple and understandable definitions. If Hispanics made up 51% of the American population they would be the majority and all other races would be considered the minority. It is ridiculous to lump that into an agenda of proving racial bias or some kind of oppressive white language. It’s just not true.

 

[SammyDubz]

"the term minorities is defined through a white frame of reference".

That's because there are obviously vastly more white people than any other race, which is the definition of a majority. Your extravagant means of explaining it as a "white frame of reference" is a veiled attempt at intellectualism and a ridiculous attempt to justify "BIPOC" as anything other than another evolution of political speak.

Read a book, dipshit. It's fucking dumb to insinuate or define new meanings to simple words to suit your agenda or try to progress to the next level of obnoxious.

Hey dipshit

no one is arguing that majority means > 50% or minority means < 50%

You’re completely missing the point

 

[Chunderface]

Hey dipshit

no one is arguing that majority means > 50% or minority means < 50%

You’re completely missing the point

Uh, no he isn't.

 

[SammyDubz]

Uh, no he isn't.

So you think the term minority doesn’t have any negative connotations that go along with it?

 

[Chunderface]

So you think the term minority doesn’t have any negative connotations that go along with it?

I am a minority. Are you? Or are you just a another white guy trying to speak for us? And no, I don't think it has negative connotations. That's stupid, and this isn't hard. You white people want to "language" yourselves out of common fucking sense.

 

[SammyDubz]

I am a minority. Are you? Or are you just a another white guy trying to speak for us? And no, I don't think it has negative connotations. That's stupid, and this isn't hard. You white people want to "language" yourselves out of common fucking sense.

No I’m white as hell hahahha

well you’re an anomaly then ??‍

every friend and professor of a different race that I’ve talked to or learned from about this would say minority is often used as a disparaging term what do I know though

 

[Awelterego]

You have an extremely valid point. Like I said, I believe I see where both of you are coming from. In my opinion, I have no place telling a group of people how to refer to themselves if it doesn’t affect me. When the “SJW’s” appropriate the usage, it really takes on a whole new life. And as a white guy, I suppose that’s where my place is to step in and say heyooo

I also believe we need a space for somewhat constructive criticism and dialogue in these sports that we are potentially gatekeeping. NS sure isn’t it. Just not seeing this situation progressing while we sling mud at each other online.

Regardless, thanks for your intelligent response and solid contribution to the conversation.

Nothing [tag=93564]@Dustin.[/tag] has said is intelligent. We shouldn’t confuse misguided and uninformed opinions with productive conversation. This is exactly what I mean by framing through whiteness. Dustins argument only works as long as he gets to control the parameters.

Because the white race already isn’t the global majority, not by a long shot.

+30% of the globe is of Asian decent, Middle eastern is next by far, over 50% of the global pop is one of those two races.

So by his own logic he’s already the minority... But obviously Dustin isn’t signing up for that title. He wants everyone to define it arbitrarily by US borders - where for the record caucasians will represent less than 50% of the pop within the next 30-35 years. And when someone else comes along and reiterates there’s other terminology that is preferred, he demands you honor his parameters.

He claims it’s my agenda as a white person, or more political agenda from the woke “intellectuals.” To him, of course it is, because like so many white people he hasn’t spent a second backing up or researching his opinions about race. If he did a single Google result, he’d see Black activists like Loretta Ross taking about the empowerment of POC terminology. He’d see the National Association of Hispanic Journalists open letter to newsrooms to stop using the word minorities. He’d see artists like Prince denouncing the term saying, “there’s nothing minor about us.” He’d see Dr. Danique Dolly explaining how that rhetoric psychologically trivializes the issues facing POC in America (Black Americans in particular). He’d see Erin Okuno explaining why as a Japanese American the term POC honors individual histories and cultures in a way that the term minority doesn’t.

So let’s not do that centralist bullshit where all opinions are commendable and equally valid. Dustin is a dumb cunt who doesn’t know shit about what he’s talking about.

 

[Chunderface]

No I’m white as hell hahahha

well you’re an anomaly then ??‍

every friend and professor of a different race that I’ve talked to or learned from about this would say minority is often used as a disparaging term what do I know though

You live in a bubble then. Its condescending as fuck, and frankly racist in itself, when white people assume every last damn thing about how we feel, as if we are a monolith with no difference in experience amongst ourselves at all. What, now I can't figure out how to vote? I don't know how to get a driver's license? Fuck off.

 

[SammyDubz]

You live in a bubble then. Its condescending as fuck, and frankly racist in itself, when white people assume every last damn thing about how we feel, as if we are a monolith with no difference in experience amongst ourselves at all. What, now I can't figure out how to vote? I don't know how to get a driver's license? Fuck off.

Nah I def don’t. Sad you see it this way.

you seem like an angry dude tho ?

 

[Skiblade420]

Are you insane? The fact that you’re this heated at Dustin’s take is wild. Nobody is talking about world wide percentages on this forum. The majority of people on here are from the United States, Canada and Europe. All places where the majority is white.

Conversation was never about world wide statistics. Say you’re chilling at a strawberry field and there were a couple of grape bushes off to the side. You would still say the majority of fruit there was strawberries.

You’re the weirdo that’s going and saying,

“ThErEs WaY MoRe ViNeYarDS oF GrApES ThaN sTraWberRiES, So THeY ArEnT ThE MiNoRitY DoNt SaY ThAt.

You look like an idiot.

Nothing [tag=93564]@Dustin.[/tag] has said is intelligent. We shouldn’t confuse misguided and uninformed opinions with productive conversation. This is exactly what I mean by framing through whiteness. Dustins argument only works as long as he gets to control the parameters.

Because the white race already isn’t the global majority, not by a long shot.

+30% of the globe is of Asian decent, Middle eastern is next by far, over 50% of the global pop is one of those two races.

So by his own logic he’s already the minority... But obviously Dustin isn’t signing up for that title. He wants everyone to define it arbitrarily by US borders - where for the record caucasians will represent less than 50% of the pop within the next 30-35 years. And when someone else comes along and reiterates there’s other terminology that is preferred, he demands you honor his parameters.

He claims it’s my agenda as a white person, or more political agenda from the woke “intellectuals.” To him, of course it is, because like so many white people he hasn’t spent a second backing up or researching his opinions about race. If he did a single Google result, he’d see Black activists like Loretta Ross taking about the empowerment of POC terminology. He’d see the National Association of Hispanic Journalists open letter to newsrooms to stop using the word minorities. He’d see artists like Prince denouncing the term saying, “there’s nothing minor about us.” He’d see Dr. Danique Dolly explaining how that rhetoric psychologically trivializes the issues facing POC in America (Black Americans in particular). He’d see Erin Okuno explaining why as a Japanese American the term POC honors individual histories and cultures in a way that the term minority doesn’t.

So let’s not do that centralist bullshit where all opinions are commendable and equally valid. Dustin is a dumb cunt who doesn’t know shit about what he’s talking about.

 

[DesertStix]

Well I do think he has a point in framing the conversation properly and using terms that are accurate and descriptive without getting into hyperbole and virtue signaling because that’s what hinders our ability to grow.

I wish this conversation wasn’t framed as a contest for who’s racist and who isn’t. Rather, how can we make skiing a more welcome place for those that want to try it?

Nothing [tag=93564]@Dustin.[/tag] has said is intelligent. We shouldn’t confuse misguided and uninformed opinions with productive conversation. This is exactly what I mean by framing through whiteness. Dustins argument only works as long as he gets to control the parameters.

Because the white race already isn’t the global majority, not by a long shot.

+30% of the globe is of Asian decent, Middle eastern is next by far, over 50% of the global pop is one of those two races.

So by his own logic he’s already the minority... But obviously Dustin isn’t signing up for that title. He wants everyone to define it arbitrarily by US borders - where for the record caucasians will represent less than 50% of the pop within the next 30-35 years. And when someone else comes along and reiterates there’s other terminology that is preferred, he demands you honor his parameters.

He claims it’s my agenda as a white person, or more political agenda from the woke “intellectuals.” To him, of course it is, because like so many white people he hasn’t spent a second backing up or researching his opinions about race. If he did a single Google result, he’d see Black activists like Loretta Ross taking about the empowerment of POC terminology. He’d see the National Association of Hispanic Journalists open letter to newsrooms to stop using the word minorities. He’d see artists like Prince denouncing the term saying, “there’s nothing minor about us.” He’d see Dr. Danique Dolly explaining how that rhetoric psychologically trivializes the issues facing POC in America (Black Americans in particular). He’d see Erin Okuno explaining why as a Japanese American the term POC honors individual histories and cultures in a way that the term minority doesn’t.

So let’s not do that centralist bullshit where all opinions are commendable and equally valid. Dustin is a dumb cunt who doesn’t know shit about what he’s talking about.

 

[Skiblade420]

No I’m white as hell hahahha

well you’re an anomaly then ??‍

every friend and professor of a different race that I’ve talked to or learned from about this would say minority is often used as a disparaging term what do I know though

The fact you called this guy an anomaly to invalidate his point is incredible.

You’re gate keeping what you yourself think a minority should normally think, which is racist in itself.

Let people have opinions, sheesh.

 

[SammyDubz]

The fact you called this guy an anomaly to invalidate his point is incredible.

You’re gate keeping what you yourself think a minority should normally think, which is racist in itself.

Let people have opinions, sheesh.

Hahaha

you must be joking ?

 

[Skiblade420]

^

Wow! Seem like a very intellectual, accepting and kind individual!

You’re a fucking hypocritical clown dude.

Hahaha

you must be joking ?

 

[SammyDubz]

View attachment 1000290

View attachment 1000291^

Wow! Seem like a very intellectual, accepting and kind individual!

ya I would say pretty accepting except for the thotties

 

[Chunderface]

Hahhaha, why am I not suprised? God damn.

View attachment 1000290

View attachment 1000291^

Wow! Seem like a very intellectual, accepting and kind individual!

You’re a fucking hypocritical clown dude.

 

[Skiblade420]

A chauvinist pig

is what you are, oh who also enjoys racist Jewish jokes.

Have fun in your virtue signaling ventures.

ya I would say pretty accepting except for the thotties

 

[SammyDubz]

A chauvinist pig

is what you are, oh who also enjoys racist Jewish jokes.

Have fun in your virtue signaling ventures.

View attachment 1000293

Never marry a whore brotha

bad news trust me

 

[Skiblade420]

I swear most of the people on this thread that are getting so extremely pissy/shitting on others for not being pc or woke enough are gonna be the slimiest little Cheeto dusted pale white creatures you’ll ever see irl. The virtue signaling going on is intense and I would not expect any of these guys to be standup humans in the real world.

Hahhaha, why am I not suprised? God damn.

 

[Skiblade420]

You’re clearly trying to go into “funny guy mode”, and play it off like you don’t care about anything.

But in reality you’re just an idiot that got called out and can’t come up with anything valid to say.

Never marry a whore brotha

bad news trust me

 

[Awelterego]

Well I do think he has a point in framing the conversation properly and using terms that are accurate and descriptive without getting into hyperbole and virtue signaling because that’s what hinders our ability to grow.

I wish this conversation wasn’t framed as a contest for who’s racist and who isn’t. Rather, how can we make skiing a more welcome place for those that want to try it?

I’m not saying he’s racist. I never said anything to that effect. I am saying he’s uninformed. This whole thing started over someone asking where BIPOC came from and why were using it, because to them it felt offensive. I simply answered saying the term is actually preferred (particularly in social and political conversation) by many folks of color because it’s anchored in positive identity (shared experience / history / cultures) vs negative identity (not white). And the POC acronym specifically regained traction in the 70s during the women’s rights movement which Black women were huge leaders of. I’m not trying to detract from the original point of this post, but I’m also not going to let ignorant opinions go unchecked like I’m making this shit up. It’s not virtue signaling it’s literally just reading and listening to dozens of opinions of people far smarter than me. This article does a better job of explaining it than I’m probably doing:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...ority-to-classify-black-and-brown-people/amp/

All I’m saying is that if anyone here actually cares about making skiing more inclusive it starts with actually educating and validating opinions. I’m not saying I have all the answers, I’m on a journey myself.

 

[Skiblade420]

The minorities around me and in my life have never brought up the phrase bipoc, and I doubt anyone has even really heard the term yet. They have never once expressed issue with the term minority in any kind of way. You’re learning terms from outraged woke weirdos that keep changing words and finding ways to be pissed.

Remember when poc was coined acceptable? My non white friends/Co workers were fine with it. Yet it was a rephrasing of colored person which is a no go.

Now it’s BIPOC? Just you watch, bipoc is going to be coined unacceptable and it will be onto a new word/phrase.

For anyone thinking that minority, poc, or what will soon be bipoc, are terms manufactured by racist white people to marginalize others, has officially lost their marbles.

You know what racist white people like to call minorities? Actual damn racial slurs. Or they add words to make things sound negative. They can use whatever term you come up with and give it a negative connotation, “that damn minority, that damn poc, that damn black person, that damn white person, that damn conservative that damn democrat” all sounds bad right?

like legitimately you’re trying to change words that don’t mean anything bad and expecting it to change something. You’re fighting for the most minute things. With all of the racial injustice that goes on you really think you’re helping by messing around and getting pissed at the English language?

I’m not saying he’s racist. I never said anything to that effect. I am saying he’s uninformed. This whole thing started over someone asking where BIPOC came from and why were using it, because to them it felt offensive. I simply answered saying the term is actually preferred (particularly in social and political conversation) by many folks of color because it’s anchored in positive identity (shared experience / history / cultures) vs negative identity (not white). And the POC acronym specifically regained traction in the 70s during the women’s rights movement which Black women were huge leaders of. I’m not trying to detract from the original point of this post, but I’m also not going to let ignorant opinions go unchecked like I’m making this shit up. It’s not virtue signaling it’s literally just reading and listening to dozens of opinions of people far smarter than me. This article does a better job of explaining it than I’m probably doing:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...ority-to-classify-black-and-brown-people/amp/

All I’m saying is that if anyone here actually cares about making skiing more inclusive it starts with actually educating and validating opinions. I’m not saying I have all the answers, I’m on a journey myself.

 

[Awelterego]

Are you insane? The fact that you’re this heated at Dustin’s take is wild. Nobody is talking about world wide percentages on this forum. The majority of people on here are from the United States, Canada and Europe. All places where the majority is white.

Conversation was never about world wide statistics. Say you’re chilling at a strawberry field and there were a couple of grape bushes off to the side. You would still say the majority of fruit there was strawberries.

You’re the weirdo that’s going and saying,

“ThErEs WaY MoRe ViNeYarDS oF GrApES ThaN sTraWberRiES, So THeY ArEnT ThE MiNoRitY DoNt SaY ThAt.

You look like an idiot.

Weirdly specific metaphor but I’ll bite. Few things would make this more accurate:

1. The strawberry field is surrounded by 3.7 billion apples and oranges but strawberries are still the majority because most of us are strawberries and we all live in the strawberry field...

2. Grapes grow on vines not bushes that’s why it’s called a vineyard (it’s a vine - yard)

3. The “bushes” in the corner aren’t just growing grapes but black berries and raspberries and star fruit and watermelon and cantaloupe and a dozen other fruits originating from other countries with different root systems and methods of growth and levels of sunlight and water needed etc. Bur in your metaphor they’re just wrapped up together “not strawberries probably just a few grape bushes.”

 

[Skiblade420]

Weirdly specific metaphor but I’ll bite. Few things would make this more accurate:

1. The strawberry field is surrounded by 3.7 billion apples and oranges but strawberries are still the majority because most of us are strawberries and we all live in the strawberry field...

2. Grapes grow on vines not bushes that’s why it’s called a vineyard (it’s a vine - yard)

3. The “bushes” in the corner aren’t just growing grapes but black berries and raspberries and star fruit and watermelon and cantaloupe and a dozen other fruits originating from other countries with different root systems and methods of growth and levels of sunlight and water needed etc. Bur in your metaphor they’re just wrapped up together “not strawberries probably just a few grape bushes.”

Grapes grow from bushes too sometimes when trained? I don’t see the hang up on that specifically.

The term minority has no bias, it’s simply a word. We are talking about specific areas with dominate percentages of Caucasian people. You’re making something different out of it by bringing it worldwide

 

[r00kie]

Man, I hate it when I miss the witch hunt.

 

[Charlie_Kelly]

Man, I hate it when I miss the witch hunt.

God some of the people in here are so damn insufferable.

 

[DesertStix]

You being a (recent) anti-Semitic misogynist was not the direction I saw this going in...

Never marry a whore brotha

bad news trust me

 

[dolanslebensraum]

“OMG THERES TOO MANY TUNA IN THE PACIFIC AND NOT ENOUGH IN THE ATLANTIC WE HAVE TO EVEN UP THE NUMBERS OR WERE ALL GONNA DIE”

Interesting people dont care about what races are doing what for leisure.

If you care then you arent an interesting person.

The author thinks ppl dont like him bc hes asian, when in reality its bc hes an uninteresting person and this article is proof of that.

Been waiting for your dumbass take

I like how your counterargument is so rational you dont even bother providing it.

 

[DesertStix]

The upvote/downvote ratio made it for me

I like how your counterargument is so rational you dont even bother providing it.

 

[dolanslebensraum]

The upvote/downvote ratio made it for me

Theres the double ^

lets see if dolan can force the triple nonseq from desertdicks....

 

[Awelterego]

The minorities around me and in my life have never brought up the phrase bipoc, and I doubt anyone has even really heard the term yet. They have never once expressed issue with the term minority in any kind of way. You’re learning terms from outraged woke weirdos that keep changing words and finding ways to be pissed.

Remember when poc was coined acceptable? My non white friends/Co workers were fine with it. Yet it was a rephrasing of colored person which is a no go.

Now it’s BIPOC? Just you watch, bipoc is going to be coined unacceptable and it will be onto a new word/phrase.

For anyone thinking that minority, poc, or what will soon be bipoc, are terms manufactured by racist white people to marginalize others, has officially lost their marbles.

You know what racist white people like to call minorities? Actual damn racial slurs. Or they add words to make things sound negative. They can use whatever term you come up with and give it a negative connotation, “that damn minority, that damn poc, that damn black person, that damn white person, that damn conservative that damn democrat” all sounds bad right?

like legitimately you’re trying to change words that don’t mean anything bad and expecting it to change something. You’re fighting for the most minute things. With all of the racial injustice that goes on you really think you’re helping by messing around and getting pissed at the English language?

Bruh, linear history of this conversation:

somebody: "where's the term BIPOC come from why are we using it? Minorities sounds less offensive to me."

me: "it comes from POC activists and academics that argue there's more empowering language that recognizes individuals in a way other scale of them relative to white people"

Dustin: "that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard your opinion and white agenda to weaponize words is intellectualism"

me: "okay but it's not my agenda there's plenty of evidence from Hispanic organizations, Black activists, Asian journalists, and cultural icons are asking for this. It's not that they / I don't understand the definition of minority in the context of a US census, it's that they / I see it as being problematic in the context of social and political culture."

you: "tHiS iS wHaT yOu CaRe AbOuT gEtTiNg PiSsEd aT LaNgUaGe?!"

Literally can't believe I actually have to explain this, but talking about one thing doesn't mean it's a top priority or the only thing I care about or the only way I engage in this subject. Dude asked where it came from, I provided some videos and half dozen sources that are easily findable online.

I'm not and have never said that the word minorities is specifically used or manufactured by racists, I'm saying that language has unintended effects. And we all agree that context matters. Words create mindsets, mindsets create beliefs, beliefs affect the way we see the world. So yes, there's a lot racial injustice out there that we need to spend time and energy on. It's ok to have language be one of the things, it doesn't mean it's the only thing.

 

[Charlie_Kelly]

Bruh, linear history of this conversation:

somebody: "where's the term BIPOC come from why are we using it? Minorities sounds less offensive to me."

me: "it comes from POC activists and academics that argue there's more empowering language that recognizes individuals in a way other scale of them relative to white people"

Dustin: "that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard your opinion and white agenda to weaponize words is intellectualism"

me: "okay but it's not my agenda there's plenty of evidence from Hispanic organizations, Black activists, Asian journalists, and cultural icons are asking for this. It's not that they / I don't understand the definition of minority in the context of a US census, it's that they / I see it as being problematic in the context of social and political culture."

you: "tHiS iS wHaT yOu CaRe AbOuT gEtTiNg PiSsEd aT LaNgUaGe?!"

Literally can't believe I actually have to explain this, but talking about one thing doesn't mean it's a top priority or the only thing I care about or the only way I engage in this subject. Dude asked where it came from, I provided some videos and half dozen sources that are easily findable online.

I'm not and have never said that the word minorities is specifically used or manufactured by racists, I'm saying that language has unintended effects. And we all agree that context matters. Words create mindsets, mindsets create beliefs, beliefs affect the way we see the world. So yes, there's a lot racial injustice out there that we need to spend time and energy on. It's ok to have language be one of the things, it doesn't mean it's the only thing.

You forgot the part where others agreed with Dustin and recognized his position and you called him a cunt.