Monopoly on Terror

[louie.mirags]

You literally said you get all your news from Reddit.... And what queued you onto the teasing, the winky face maybe? Hahahaha

You just seem to have a hard time dealing with someone who disagrees with you and is extremely knowledgeable on the subject. Sorry, but you might not have all the answers my man?

no I was saying that I do get a lot of articles from reddit. So what? They are links to other news sources. And I get the teasing, that is cool. But you have been doing it in almost every post. When you start off by writing "lol" at my post it is clear that you are being condescending. And having a convo with someone like you gets annoying. I love having discussions but your subtle trolls make it hard. It is not just this thread. I have seen you in the past arguing for the sake of arguing. "Extremely knowledgable" on what "subject"? War crimes? Civilian murders? Our undeclared war? How our country has no threats but we spend trillions on a "defense" budget?

 

[californiagrown]

no I was saying that I do get a lot of articles from reddit. So what? They are links to other news sources. And I get the teasing, that is cool. But you have been doing it in almost every post. When you start off by writing "lol" at my post it is clear that you are being condescending. And having a convo with someone like you gets annoying. I love having discussions but your subtle trolls make it hard. It is not just this thread. I have seen you in the past arguing for the sake of arguing. "Extremely knowledgable" on what "subject"? War crimes? Civilian murders? Our undeclared war? How our country has no threats but we spend trillions on a "defense" budget?

You think the OP article is a good one?

LOL.

As for the extremely knowledgeable part, just take a look at what I have previously posted in reasoning my viewpoints. Don't block out reasoning just because you disagree with the opinion.

 

[Monsieur_Patate]

is extremely knowledgeable on the subject. Sorry, but you might not have all the answers my man?

You are such a toxic troll, I also think you just like to stir the pot, because you like the attention or something.

But sorry, you are anything but knowledgeable. You have proven on multiple different topics that even though you don't know what you are talking about, you keep blabbering on and on.

When people point how and why you are wrong on some of the things you say with actual facts and source, you just ignore and never respond to them. You're full of shit.

I'm just skipping your posts from now on, your stupidity amused me up to a point, now it's just getting pathetic, grow up.

 

[louie.mirags]

You think the OP article is a good one?

LOL.

As for the extremely knowledgeable part, just take a look at what I have previously posted in reasoning my viewpoints. Don't block out reasoning just because you disagree with the opinion.

Notice the condescending tone? I am not blocking anything. We have been discussing this topic and you keep insulting me saying my source is social media. Give it a break, man. There is no winner or loser, we're having a convo. And I have listed many sources in the other recent threads. It is as if you're projecting because my sources are not social media and I haven't been blocking out anything you have said. I have quoted it and then stated why I disagreed or agreed.

 

[californiagrown]

You have proven on multiple different topics that even though you don't know what you are talking about, you keep blabbering on and on.

When people point how and why you are wrong on some of the things you say with actual facts and source, you just ignore and never respond to them.

Where? What instance or instances are you referring to?

 

[californiagrown]

Notice the condescending tone? I am not blocking anything. We have been discussing this topic and you keep insulting me saying my source is social media. Give it a break, man. There is no winner or loser, we're having a convo. And I have listed many sources in the other recent threads. It is as if you're projecting because my sources are not social media and I haven't been blocking out anything you have said. I have quoted it and then stated why I disagreed or agreed.

Notice the tongue in cheek lol. Haha. Lighten up man!

You have posted a bunch of great articles, for sure. The OP is not one of them. Like I said earlier, it would make Fox News blush at the blatant bias haha.

I've been condescending when i felt it justified- you not knowing what a war crime was, the OP article etc. And you've been condescending towards me many times as well, I just don't take it personally...

 

[qazwsxedc34]

lol who cares 20 people died, it was an accident, its not like al queda or isis hasnt purposely bombed hostipals and markets and schools before

we are still on the winning side

and who ever said that the media has to run what they are reporting by the federal goverment before they report on it is in true that is called prior restrain and the sumprme court has ruled that to be ileagal on countless occasions

We fund, train and arm Al Qaeda

 

[californiagrown]

We fund, train and arm Al Qaeda

*a group in Syria associated with al queda. It's a shitty situation when you gotta follow "the ENEMY of my enemy is my friend" mantra.

I forgot where I read or heard this but I guess the attrition rate is so bad for fighters in Syria that less than 10 of the American trained commanders are still alive. And it's only getting worse with Russia running an air campaign now.

 

[qazwsxedc34]

https://theintercept.com/2015/10/07...irstrike-was-an-accident/?comments=1#comments

 

[APunx176]

You have faith in the government, huh? lol. The fact that we're at war 7 years after Obama is elected is asinine..

Obama doesn't single-handedly make these decisions you know. The US government isn't just one guy ordering everyone below him around.

But this is horrible. The propaganda that we are fed is just ridiculous. It reminds me of North Korea in the sense that the government controls what we see (it's to a less extreme extent obviously).

 

[Dustin.]

more outrage over a lion being killed than a bunch of innocent people.

not familiar with humanitarian codes/laws but this surely isn't allowed, right? even in the event of hospitals housing the "enemy". I remember the whole Israel/Palestine conflict caused a ton of people to be outraged due to bombings in civilian areas. why aren't we kicking up dust over this?

No. This is definitely not allowed.

 

[Dustin.]

There's got to be something that they aren't telling us. Some sort of high level terrorist leader that was in the hospital or something. But I agree with you OP.

Even if Osama was having a birthday party in a hospital like that, I can't think of any situation that would authorize anyone to drop. And frankly I don't know anyone personally who would knowingly drop on a hospital if ordered to. This doesn't make sense to me, I want to know how this happened.

 

[theBearJew]

Why aren't people in the streets protesting.... Israel bombs Gaza strongholds that are at schools, mosques, and hospitals and people go ape shit. Mind you Israel also drops leaflets to let those areas know. Any leaflets dropped on that hospital? My guess is no.

Where is the media condemning USA, the public outcry to try the USA for war crimes?

 

[-benedetto]

Why aren't people in the streets protesting.... Israel bombs Gaza strongholds that are at schools, mosques, and hospitals and people go ape shit. Mind you Israel also drops leaflets to let those areas know. Any leaflets dropped on that hospital? My guess is no.

Where is the media condemning USA, the public outcry to try the USA for war crimes?

I think most people want the comfort that the American government has our best interest at heart and doing what they need to do to defend the all mighty terrorist. I believe the government does for the most part but it's really time to start asking what is really going on and is this campaign still necessary? Well it's been time to start asking since the beginning but after 14 years and the mission still isn't accomplished, is it even possible to accomplish? Are we just spinning our wheels over there? I know we've done some good over there. I know people personally from my unit who drilled wells and built schools in Afghanistan and connected with the local populace. However, with Iraq not being a success and it's apparent the Afghan army can't hold their own..what are we still doing over there?

Alternative and unbiased news networks are reporting this.

 

[louie.mirags]

And frankly I don't know anyone personally who would knowingly drop on a hospital if ordered to. .

Blind faith in our government and an oath to follow orders causes this. The U.S. government gets what it wants via force. If a pilot refused bombing orders, he would be punished.

 

[Dustin.]

Blind faith in our government and an oath to follow orders causes this. The U.S. government gets what it wants via force. If a pilot refused bombing orders, he would be punished.

False, that's why we have pilots and that's why they are only officers in the Air Force. It sounds like frat, but targeting it for an hour?

 

[louie.mirags]

False, that's why we have pilots and that's why they are only officers in the Air Force. It sounds like frat, but targeting it for an hour?

What part is false?

 

[qazwsxedc34]

Obama doesn't single-handedly make these decisions you know. The US government isn't just one guy ordering everyone below him around.

But this is horrible. The propaganda that we are fed is just ridiculous. It reminds me of North Korea in the sense that the government controls what we see (it's to a less extreme extent obviously).

I would disagree with you. JSOC and the kill list says otherwise.

 

[qazwsxedc34]

Why aren't people in the streets protesting.... Israel bombs Gaza strongholds that are at schools, mosques, and hospitals and people go ape shit. Mind you Israel also drops leaflets to let those areas know. Any leaflets dropped on that hospital? My guess is no.

Where is the media condemning USA, the public outcry to try the USA for war crimes?

Because the media refuses to report it. My relatives haven’t even heard of this tragedy until I told them four days later and they refused to even acknowledge.

 

[Dustin.]

What part is false?

I disagree that a pilot would be punished for refusing to bomb a civilian target.

 

[qazwsxedc34]

A quarter million germans protest Obama's "Free Trade” Deal, yet more than half the US population has no idea what this trade deal entails or even is.

A half a million Brazilians protest over bus fares.

I’m always saddened when no one bats an eye here in the US.

 

[-benedetto]

I disagree that a pilot would be punished for refusing to bomb a civilian target.

Article 92—Failure to obey order or regulation. Failure to obey a lawful order.

Any person subject to this chapter who?

•

(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;

(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by a member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or

(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.?

They always stuck this charge in during court martial no matter what the individual did. Captains Mass in the Navy for less harsh chargers.

 

[californiagrown]

Even if Osama was having a birthday party in a hospital like that, I can't think of any situation that would authorize anyone to drop. And frankly I don't know anyone personally who would knowingly drop on a hospital if ordered to. This doesn't make sense to me, I want to know how this happened.

More than likely Afghan forces convinced the US commanders that they were taking a bunch of fire from the hospital which the probly claimed had been cleared out and taken over by Taliban fighters.

Rules of war allow you to bomb hospitals etc where civilian casualties are likely, as long as the proportion of ENEMY combatants is far greater... Issue is, that leaves a ton of grey area.

Why aren't people in the streets protesting.... Israel bombs Gaza strongholds that are at schools, mosques, and hospitals and people go ape shit. Mind you Israel also drops leaflets to let those areas know. Any leaflets dropped on that hospital? My guess is no.

Where is the media condemning USA, the public outcry to try the USA for war crimes?

It's not a war crime. Learn what a war crime is.

Because the media refuses to report it. My relatives haven’t even heard of this tragedy until I told them four days later and they refused to even acknowledge.

Maybe a bigger problem is the American public is just as ignorant and uneducated as your relatives. This has been all over the news... From the day it happened.

 

[Dustin.]

Article 92—Failure to obey order or regulation. Failure to obey a lawful order.

Any person subject to this chapter who?

•

(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;

(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by a member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or

(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.?

They always stuck this charge in during court martial no matter what the individual did. Captains Mass in the Navy for less harsh chargers.

Ya....I know...thanks and move along dude.

 

[Dustin.]

More than likely Afghan forces convinced the US commanders that they were taking a bunch of fire from the hospital which the probly claimed had been cleared out and taken over by Taliban fighters.

I was thinking along the same lines originally, but the whole thing about hour long attacks and the doctors contacting them with a plea to stop made me question it. It would be great to read a real report, kind of speculating a bunch right now.

 

[theBearJew]

It's not a war crime. Learn what a war crime is.

I know it's not war crime. I want too know why nobody cares when the US does it. But people protest when Israel does. Truthfully I probably know the answer already, its just annoying.

 

[-benedetto]

That's why they're calling for an independent study

 

[californiagrown]

I know it's not war crime. I want too know why nobody cares when the US does it. But people protest when Israel does. Truthfully I probably know the answer already, its just annoying.

Well largely because America isn't an apartheid state, doesn't systematically do it, and when we do it we admit the mistake instead of saying "oh well, it was your own fault for being there".

 

[louie.mirags]

Well largely because America isn't an apartheid state, doesn't systematically do it, and when we do it we admit the mistake instead of saying "oh well, it was your own fault for being there".

admit the mistake? You mean attempt to not take blame, then blame the afghan military for calling it in and then claiming they thought terrorist were there before actually apologizing? And the bombs continued after the hospital reached out. No apology changes the fact they kept bombing.

To me this is just like Tiger Woods or any other celebrity apologizing for cheating after he was caught. He is sorry he got caught. Not that he did the cheating.

 

[californiagrown]

admit the mistake? You mean attempt to not take blame, then blame the afghan military for calling it in and then claiming they thought terrorist were there before actually apologizing? And the bombs continued after the hospital reached out. No apology changes the fact they kept bombing.

To me this is just like Tiger Woods or any other celebrity apologizing for cheating after he was caught. He is sorry he got caught. Not that he did the cheating.

I'm not saying this was handled well... At any point.

I was simply responding to the guy comparing similar Israeli bombings.

 

[theBearJew]

Well largely because America isn't an apartheid state, doesn't systematically do it, and when we do it we admit the mistake instead of saying "oh well, it was your own fault for being there".

I'm not saying this was handled well... At any point.

I was simply responding to the guy comparing similar Israeli bombings.

Dont want to turn it into an Israel argument thread. But the double standard bothers me.

 

[californiagrown]

Dont want to turn it into an Israel argument thread. But the double standard bothers me.

It's not a double standard, and Americans are overwhelmingly supportive of Israel and their tactics.

 

[theBearJew]

It's not a double standard, and Americans are overwhelmingly supportive of Israel and their tactics.

I see it as a double standard. Israel drops leaflets, bombs an arsenal of the other side at a school or mosque and they get blasted in the media and public perception for it. We do it to a hospital where there isn't even an arsenal, and no real backlash but a few people showing concern.

The double standard is that Israel is under such scrutiny when they try to defend their people from obliteration while other countries do similar things and aren't held to the same level of scrutiny.

And yes, Americans are supportive of Israel, but the rest of the world doesn't seem to be. Then again, that probably is mostly the media pissing people off to get views/ratings.

 

[californiagrown]

I see it as a double standard. Israel drops leaflets, bombs an arsenal of the other side at a school or mosque and they get blasted in the media and public perception for it. We do it to a hospital where there isn't even an arsenal, and no real backlash but a few people showing concern.

The double standard is that Israel is under such scrutiny when they try to defend their people from obliteration while other countries do similar things and aren't held to the same level of scrutiny.

And yes, Americans are supportive of Israel, but the rest of the world doesn't seem to be. Then again, that probably is mostly the media pissing people off to get views/ratings.

Holy bias hahaha. And you're saying Americans are blindly supportive. Stop yelling at the pot, homey, you're just as black.

I thought you didn't want to discuss this here? Couldn't help yourself huh?

 

[theBearJew]

Holy bias hahaha. And you're saying Americans are blindly supportive. Stop yelling at the pot, homey, you're just as black.

I thought you didn't want to discuss this here? Couldn't help yourself huh?

Yea I couldn't lol. Tried not to say too much, just annoys me. And I don't think Americans are blindly supportive.

 

[louie.mirags]

Here are a few powerful messages by Ron Paul with in article titled, "Politicians Exploit School Shooting While Ignoring Bombing Victims"

http://www.campaignforliberty.org/politicians-exploit-school-shooting-ignoring-bombing-victims

Our Nobel Peace Prize winning president did apologize to his fellow Nobel laureate for the bombing. However, President Obama has not “politicized” this tragedy by using it to justify ending military involvement in Afghanistan. No one in Congress is pushing for a special commission to examine the human costs of US militarism, and the mainstream media has largely ignored Doctors Without Borders’ accusation that the bombing constitutes a war crime.

The reason for the different reactions to these two events is that politicians prefer to focus on events they can "politicize" to increase government power. In contrast, politicians ignore incidents that raise uncomfortable questions about US foreign policy.

While our political and media elites are eager to debate how much liberty people must sacrifice for safety, they are desperate to avoid debating the morality of our foreign policy. To admit that the US military sometimes commits immoral acts is to admit that the US government is not an unalloyed force for good. Even many proponents of our recent wars support using the US military for "humanitarian" purposes. Thus they are as reluctant as the neoconservatives to question the fundamental goodness of US foreign policy.

 

[louie.mirags]

It's not a war crime. Learn what a war crime is.

I know it's not war crime. I want too know why nobody cares when the US does it. But people protest when Israel does. Truthfully I probably know the answer already, its just annoying.

http://original.antiwar.com/robert-koehler/2015/10/08/why-bombing-a-hospital-is-a-war-crime/

Great opinionated article on the subject. Great because I 100% agree and this author has expressed himself more clear than I have

 

[californiagrown]

http://original.antiwar.com/robert-koehler/2015/10/08/why-bombing-a-hospital-is-a-war-crime/

Great opinionated article on the subject. Great because I 100% agree and this author has expressed himself more clear than I have

Literally, the author thinks it should be called a war crime because "war crime" has a serious connotation. I think calling something that isn't a war crime a "war crime" lessens the seriousness of an actual war crime.

He admits it actually doesn't fit the requirements for it to actually be a war crime, but facts never get in the way of an opinion, right?

 

[louie.mirags]

Literally, the author thinks it should be called a war crime because "war crime" has a serious connotation. I think calling something that isn't a war crime a "war crime" lessens the seriousness of an actual war crime.

He admits it actually doesn't fit the requirements for it to actually be a war crime, but facts never get in the way of an opinion, right?

you're missing the whole point. You want to excuse the U.S. because is not technically a war crime and because they apologized. Meanwhile there are 12 dead staff and a number of civilians. Yet you're crying for gun control in other threads. That is the point of the last two articles I posted. The hypocrisy of crying about gun control while our superiors bomb hospitals.

And the author is giving his opinion on way it is a war crime. Not just why it should be called one. And since you disagree that does not discredit the author. That is why an investigation is going to happen.

 

[californiagrown]

you're missing the whole point. You want to excuse the U.S. because is not technically a war crime and because they apologized. Meanwhile there are 12 dead staff and a number of civilians. Yet you're crying for gun control in other threads. That is the point of the last two articles I posted. The hypocrisy of crying about gun control while our superiors bomb hospitals.

And the author is giving his opinion on way it is a war crime. Not just why it should be called one. And since you disagree that does not discredit the author. That is why an investigation is going to happen.

So because I have an opinion of another, wholly unrelated topic, that means idgaf about this event? sweet logic.

It's not that I disagree with the author. It's that facts disagree with the author.

I think it is a very, very dangerous precedent to set if we start expanding the definition of what a war crime is. This event absolutely needs to be investigated thoroughly, but only after that happens can anyone postulate whether or not this was a war crime. To do so now, with hardly any facts relevant to the strategic thinking behind the attack is reckless, ignorant, and shortsighted IMO.

 

[louie.mirags]

So because I have an opinion of another, wholly unrelated topic, that means idgaf about this event? sweet logic.

It's not that I disagree with the author. It's that facts disagree with the author.

I think it is a very, very dangerous precedent to set if we start expanding the definition of what a war crime is. This event absolutely needs to be investigated thoroughly, but only after that happens can anyone postulate whether or not this was a war crime. To do so now, with hardly any facts relevant to the strategic thinking behind the attack is reckless, ignorant, and shortsighted IMO.

I love how you discuss "war crimes" as if you have an extensive knowledge of International Law, the Geneva Convention and all on the in-and-outs on the different rules without researching it. From what I research, this appears to be a war crime. The hospital was not collateral damage - it was targeted. And an investigation will determine this.

 

[californiagrown]

I love how you discuss "war crimes" as if you have an extensive knowledge of International Law, the Geneva Convention and all on the in-and-outs on the different rules without researching it. From what I research, this appears to be a war crime. The hospital was not collateral damage - it was targeted. And an investigation will determine this.

There has to be intent to target civilians. I dont think there was at all. I think there was knowledge there would be civilian casualties. You're right an investigation will help to determine this. Till then, innocent until proven guilty... You're just apart of mob justice otherwise.

 

[louie.mirags]

There has to be intent to target civilians. I dont think there was at all. I think there was knowledge there would be civilian casualties. You're right an investigation will help to determine this. Till then, innocent until proven guilty... You're just apart of mob justice otherwise.

mob justice is important in these cases because if people don't question our government then who knows what they will get away with.

 

[Lonely]

I love how you discuss "war crimes" as if you have an extensive knowledge of International Law, the Geneva Convention and all on the in-and-outs on the different rules without researching it. From what I research, this appears to be a war crime. The hospital was not collateral damage - it was targeted. And an investigation will determine this.

There has to be intent to target civilians. I dont think there was at all. I think there was knowledge there would be civilian casualties. You're right an investigation will help to determine this. Till then, innocent until proven guilty... You're just apart of mob justice otherwise.

For once I actually agree with calforniagrown. At least partial. While this is an atrocious act it would not fall under "war crimes" . Yes it comes close to it, (and deserves to be put under more scrutiny, sadly the American public just doesn't care). But it is not actually a war crime.

The real issue for me is that they continued to bomb after the plea, which is confusing because to get the go ahead for a bombing you have to go through along procces of analyzing the zone, and if at any time it's declared that that zone being bombed is a threat to civilians, or military personnel you're supposed to pull out. But that didn't happen.

There's something we're not being told.

 

[californiagrown]

mob justice is important in these cases because if people don't question our government then who knows what they will get away with.

For once I actually agree with calforniagrown. At least partial. While this is an atrocious act it would not fall under "war crimes" . Yes it comes close to it, (and deserves to be put under more scrutiny, sadly the American public just doesn't care). But it is not actually a war crime.

The real issue for me is that they continued to bomb after the plea, which is confusing because to get the go ahead for a bombing you have to go through along procces of analyzing the zone, and if at any time it's declared that that zone being bombed is a threat to civilians, or military personnel you're supposed to pull out. But that didn't happen.

There's something we're not being told.

I guess I'm super out of the American social consciousness loop?

The big difference it seems between you guys and I is that you don't see this story being given enough importance, where as I thought it was a huge story. From what I saw and heard, it was pretty much everywhere.

 

[louie.mirags]

From what I saw and heard, it was pretty much everywhere.

Yes, but people seem to not care. One huge reason is because the U.S. pushed away the blame and then was forced to apologize. I don't buy it. The war needs to stop.

Check out this article: http://www.campaignforliberty.org/politicians-exploit-school-shooting-ignoring-bombing-victims

 

[californiagrown]

Yes, but people seem to not care. One huge reason is because the U.S. pushed away the blame and then was forced to apologize. I don't buy it. The war needs to stop.

Check out this article:http://www.campaignforliberty.org/politicians-exploit-school-shooting-ignoring-bombing-victims

War zones are supposed to be dangerous. Schools are not. That's not a small difference.

Goddamn, do you get any of your news from factual reporting instead of opinion pieces? Lol. Do you realize how blatantly biased the organizations you are referencing are?

 

[Lonely]

I guess I'm super out of the American social consciousness loop?

The big difference it seems between you guys and I is that you don't see this story being given enough importance, where as I thought it was a huge story. From what I saw and heard, it was pretty much everywhere.

Maybe it's a difference in areas, I keep myself pretty updated and have not seen hardly any of it without actual research. I guess I'm just worried it's going to be like Ebola, focused on for a week, then forgotten. We need to do something and focus on this because our foreign policy is already fucked.

 

[californiagrown]

In far more important news, Playboy is not doing full nude anymore, and Budweiser bought out Miller!!

What a crazy, crazy world. The times they are a changing.

 

[Lonely]

War zones are supposed to be dangerous. Schools are not. That's not a small difference.

Goddamn, do you get any of your news from factual reporting instead of opinion pieces? Lol. Do you realize how blatantly biased the organizations you are referencing are?

I agree that war zones are dangerous. But was that hospital a direct threat to U.S. Soldiers? No. A direct threat to homeland security's? No. Was it known that there were civilians? Yes. Did the bombing continue? Yes.

That's what doesn't make sense to me.