MLB 14/15 thread
- Thread starter MilaKunis
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13075451:_Jeffrey_ said:
Aww are you upset I don't like your team?
Fuck the Giants...
As for Lester/Price... Please if they go let them go to an NL team... Any NL team... In fact, any AL team not in Southern California...
If the A's trade for Lester, can Boston take Hammel? What a fucking joke he's been since he arrived here. It's been a loss like every 5 games. Super annoying.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
Merely twitter rumors but
Lester and Gomes might be moving for Cespedes
Lester and Gomes might be moving for Cespedes
...huh?
Yikes! okay. What? No... Yes? Fuck...
I mean... Crap...
Crap. Crap. Crap. I don't...
Yikes! okay. What? No... Yes? Fuck...
I mean... Crap...
Crap. Crap. Crap. I don't...
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
Who are you a supporter of?
If you are an A's fan, what is your take.
If you are an A's fan, what is your take.
We should have got so much more for Cespedes.
1. Lester's gone after this season. Boo.
2. Cespedes would have been gone after next season (which is still part of our 2 - year championship window) - Ehhhh.
3. Cespedes' offensive stats are bloated by his 'Puig-effect'
4. Lester's numbers are bloated by his... Boston-effect.
5. Johnny Gomes!.....? (He's awesome because he's actually from Northern CA and an A's fan, I'll say that)
...Nobody we compete with gets Lester! WE NEED TO TRADE A PITCHER. FOR OFFENSE. NAOW.
Hammel and Milone for Zobrist? or Utley? Rollins? Anyone at 2nd base who's not Dan Uggla?
1. Lester's gone after this season. Boo.
2. Cespedes would have been gone after next season (which is still part of our 2 - year championship window) - Ehhhh.
3. Cespedes' offensive stats are bloated by his 'Puig-effect'
4. Lester's numbers are bloated by his... Boston-effect.
5. Johnny Gomes!.....? (He's awesome because he's actually from Northern CA and an A's fan, I'll say that)
...Nobody we compete with gets Lester! WE NEED TO TRADE A PITCHER. FOR OFFENSE. NAOW.
Hammel and Milone for Zobrist? or Utley? Rollins? Anyone at 2nd base who's not Dan Uggla?
I'll just say this... Beane better have another trade in him, because we really have too much stocked up in starters at the moment. Losing Cespedes is a bit of a blow to the offense, as he's a great producer with RISP and has been a key part of this offense.
Still. Look at his downright hilarious 4 man playoff rotation. It's like some kid playing fantasy draft there, and going very pitcher-heavy.
Kazmir. Gray. Lester. Samardzija.
Look at the next 4 guys: Jessie Chavez, Jason Hammel. Drew Pomeranz. Tommy Milone.
That's 4 guys who, when they're pitching like they can, are able to give you 6 strong all the time. All 4 are good 3rd or 4th rotation slot guys - though Milone's definitely more of a 5. If you want to throw Evan Scribner in there, then you legit have another #5 as well.
The A's have legitimately two rotations worth. What?
give me a 2nd baseman?
Still. Look at his downright hilarious 4 man playoff rotation. It's like some kid playing fantasy draft there, and going very pitcher-heavy.
Kazmir. Gray. Lester. Samardzija.
Look at the next 4 guys: Jessie Chavez, Jason Hammel. Drew Pomeranz. Tommy Milone.
That's 4 guys who, when they're pitching like they can, are able to give you 6 strong all the time. All 4 are good 3rd or 4th rotation slot guys - though Milone's definitely more of a 5. If you want to throw Evan Scribner in there, then you legit have another #5 as well.
The A's have legitimately two rotations worth. What?
give me a 2nd baseman?
division.bell
Active member
13076932:DingoSean said:
You're a bit behind regarding the news of your team.
Milone got what he wanted; traded from the A's. Beane traded him to get Sam Fuld back from the Twins.
Yeah. Realized right after I said that on Milone.
welp. Overall, it's a bit of a wash. Cespedes was gone next year, and QUITE HONESTLY, with the 10 million we aren't paying him next year, and the additional 10 million we won't be paying Jim Johnson, Billy Beane can find a guy who can get you 20 homers and hit 270 with above average defense with that payroll next year... Who knows, he could yoink another Cespedes out of the Caribbean countries.
Bottom line: Cespedes is slightly overrated, can be a defensive liability (misplays balls now and again), plays a position that's easy to fill (this year or next), yeah, dude has a cannon for an arm, but so does Reddick, who's back in the fold - and he plays a more critical position in right field.
And, Boston folks, can I get a scouting report on how well Gomes has been defensively this year? I know he's been okay in the past - nothing to write home about, but at least an average glove with an average arm... I know about his batting potential, at least.
welp. Overall, it's a bit of a wash. Cespedes was gone next year, and QUITE HONESTLY, with the 10 million we aren't paying him next year, and the additional 10 million we won't be paying Jim Johnson, Billy Beane can find a guy who can get you 20 homers and hit 270 with above average defense with that payroll next year... Who knows, he could yoink another Cespedes out of the Caribbean countries.
Bottom line: Cespedes is slightly overrated, can be a defensive liability (misplays balls now and again), plays a position that's easy to fill (this year or next), yeah, dude has a cannon for an arm, but so does Reddick, who's back in the fold - and he plays a more critical position in right field.
And, Boston folks, can I get a scouting report on how well Gomes has been defensively this year? I know he's been okay in the past - nothing to write home about, but at least an average glove with an average arm... I know about his batting potential, at least.
caderobinson
Active member
13076961:DingoSean said:
Gomes is a very clutch player but kinda sucks other than that, but then again being clutch is very useful. That being said he's an awful fielder and makes sketchy ass plays in the outfield.
But overall your probably gonna love him, he's crazy, and funny as fuck
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
Gomes?
Oh boy. Horrible from what I have seen.
Oh boy. Horrible from what I have seen.
I'm already well aware of Gomes being awesome. He was on the A's before last season, and regrettably wasn't kept around because Boston offered him twice as much for twice as long as the A's were willing to give.
He's from Petaluma - like half an hour from Oakland, and grew up an A's fan. He's a strong part of the community. basically runs the North Bay Little League, and sponsors youth baseball all over the bay area. 2 years ago him and Reddick got hilarious with the postgame pies, and he was known for jumping into the crowd and giving high fives up the aisle after big wins.
He's from Petaluma - like half an hour from Oakland, and grew up an A's fan. He's a strong part of the community. basically runs the North Bay Little League, and sponsors youth baseball all over the bay area. 2 years ago him and Reddick got hilarious with the postgame pies, and he was known for jumping into the crowd and giving high fives up the aisle after big wins.
Hmm. I guess this downgrades our LF Defense considerably then. Hopefully he can at least put up .250 batting average with a decent OBP the rest of the season.
division.bell
Active member
M's just picked up Chris Denorfia. Wonder what that cost us...
Billy Beane being flooded with calls for Jason "How were you even good on the Cubs" Hammel... Hopefully he wrangles in Zobrist for Hammel, Punto, and 2nd tier prospects.
I believe.
I believe in Bill.
I BELIEVE IN BILLY BEANE.
I BELIEVE IN BILLY BEANE.
I BELIEVE IN BILLY BEANE.
I believe.
I believe in Bill.
I BELIEVE IN BILLY BEANE.
I BELIEVE IN BILLY BEANE.
I BELIEVE IN BILLY BEANE.
division.bell
Active member
13076991:division.bell said:
Not much; 2 minor leaguers, Almonte and Kohlscheen. Boring trade.
But, we just plucked Austin Jackson from the field during warmup. 3 way trade as David Price just went to Detroit. Bye bye Nick Franklin from our minor league pool as well.
Only a matter of time to see if this works out for Seattle or not, but it's inevitable that the prospects we are losing are going to become better players after leaving the Mariners. That's the Seattle way...
Any idea what the Detroit/David Price trade details are? I want to know how the fuck Detroit could get David Price... somebody important had to go somewhere else...
- Tigers get LHP David Price.
- Mariners get OF Austin Jackson.
- Rays get LHP Drew Smyly and IF Nick Franklin.
...I guess the Tigers are using Rajai Davis in Center field now?
- Mariners get OF Austin Jackson.
- Rays get LHP Drew Smyly and IF Nick Franklin.
...I guess the Tigers are using Rajai Davis in Center field now?
caderobinson
Active member
13077137:imhackel said:
true
13077130:.frenchy said:
The Red Sox raked today. Great trades by them.
13077137:imhackel said:
Yeah, we all know that.
Damnit, I miss Seth Smith right now.
.MASSHOLE.
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13077130:.frenchy said:
Someone doesn't follow baseball too much...
.frenchy
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13077262:.MASSHOLE. said:
uhhh? yeah i do? i played baseball all my life into high school? And rarely miss a yankees game..
Cespedes isn't good for shit except hitting HR's at the HR derby. He has a career .260 average, the redsox outfield now has a better arm than their pitching rotation, it's okay; I'd be insulting yankees fans too if I were 13 games back.
13077383:.frenchy said:
As somebody who's watched this guy play for 3 years... To somebody who just watches a bunch of Yankees games and likely hasn't seen much of this guy outside of the random ESPN story...
Yes. He's a masher. He crushes balls. That's what he's known for. Dude has pop. He'll dent the monster a lot more.
His plate discipline isn't all that great, and he doesn't draw walks well, but for his hitting, realize he also plays in a downright pitchers park. Josh Donaldson and Brandon moss both have lower average than Cespedes playing at home. Cespedes will do well in AL East ballparks.
He has a fucking cannon of an arm, and that's always been known. Having him and Reddick in the field was almost stupid with how other teams couldn't run on the A's. Limited extra bases and runs a lot.
He is suspect with his glove and his angle to the ball isn't always on-point, but he's still a very serviceable fielder, especially in Fenway. He can play left or Center without a problem on that diamond.
He is quick. Very good baserunner - especially now that he doesn't get too aggressive with it. He has stolen 3rd on occasion - and the A's rarely send guys.
Ultimately, I see him as a 270 hitter with 25-30 home run potential, 15-20 stolen bases per year, and a fucking railgun for an arm. That's something that the Red Sox will always do well with, and he's going to blow up in Boston.
Yeah, they gave up Lester, but offensive players like Cespedes are always going to be welcomed on any team. Boston will make up the loss in pitching, anyway what with how many free agents come in during the next few seasons.
The Yankees are a joke right now. Drew isn't going to get them a thing. Even if they somehow make the 2nd wildcard, they'll get humped by whoever they play (whether it's Oakland or Anaheim, they're straight up going to lose)
.frenchy
Active member
13077396:DingoSean said:
Oh yeah man I know he has a an arm, thus why I said the redsox outfield has a better arm than the pitchers.... Yankees are a joke? Uhhh come on there buddy.... they're still in the race.
You see him as a .270 hitter? Lol good luck with that.... he finished off last year at .240
Yeah, he's alright. But Cespedes is NOT worth as much Lester, let alone Lester+Gomes... Hahahaha. Pretty sure I saw today on ESPN that lester is 4-0 in his last 4 starts with a 1.5something ERA.... He's a good fucking pitcher.
And never count the yankees out if they make the playoffs, you should know this, I know you watch a lot of professional sports.
13077410:.frenchy said:
Yankees are a joke. If still in the race means you're three games over 500, then yes. Theyr'e a joke in comparison to the competition. They won't beat out Toronto or Seattle for that 2nd wild card spot - hell KC has a far better chance than they do. Even if they do somehow make it there, they play Anaheim or Oakland, and burn a game for Tanaka - the only Yankees pitcher worth a damn.
Their offense can't hold a candle to either of those teams, and even if they magically beat one, they're not getting through the ALCS, mark my words.. I'm counting them way the fuck out, because... well... they are the Yankees and they haven't been worth a damn for 5 years now.
Lester is going into Free agency, if you didn't actually know that detail. He's going to command 200k+. Something Boston has lowballed him on, and been impatient about. He has stated that he doesn't want to talk contract until after the season - Boston isn't one to wait to lose a guy like that to just anyone, and get nothing. Bringing in a guy like Cespedes for him is a great snag, and one that wouldn't come without at least something else going to Oakland - hence Gomes.
Neither Oakland nor Boston was fleeced in this deal, simply because neither team would necessarily resign either player at the end of their respective contracts. This also frees up space in Beane's budget to do what he does best at the end of the season - finding great players on the cheap. Cespedes is due 15 million next season - Beane could turn that into at least 2 or 3 good players, as he has done in the past.
At the same time, Boston has a guy who shores up their left field, and maybe even their center field for a while. They will resign him in a year, and likely give him 100 million over a long term deal that will run through his prime years.
Cespedes will be at LEAST a 270 hitter in that park. His rookie season he put up this slash line .292/.356/.505 That's why they call him "La Potencia". He hit 23 out of the yard and hit 82 RBIs. If Mike Trout wasn't there, he was the run away ROY. He was a top 10 MVP vote getter, too.
Last year he was battling every injury out there. Wrist, hammy, knee, you name it. He still had 80 RBI's and 26 dingers - pretty much the same exact production as he had in his rookie year, then was the best player for Oakland in the playoffs - batted .381 over 5 games.
I know, it's Boston, so you have to believe in your heart that they got a raw deal because you'd hate to admit they did something right, but simply put, no matter what side of the table you're on, Green and Gold or Red and... Sox... you're happy at the end of the day. Both fanbases (the rational ones at least) are happy today. That is a good, even trade if I've ever seen one. Oakland can take the loss of Cespedes, both defensively and offensively - especially with a shored up rotation. Boston needs bats, and bringing in a guy with the flash of Cespedes is always welcome in the Northeast corner of Baseball's most circlejerked rivalry.
Anyways... now that Oakland still has 7 quality starting pitchers... I have NO idea what they're going to do with the extra guys. One of Hammel, Chavez, and Pomeranz is going to have to fight for the last spot. That's fucking insane. I guess our pitchers will be well rested going into the playoffs - with those three we can give Kazmir and Gray a rest and save them for painting the corners in the postseason.
Still. I REALLY wish we could have traded one of them for Zobrist or Asdrubal Cabrera... We had to have SOMETHING that could have beat fucking... Zach Walters. Shit.
Still. I REALLY wish we could have traded one of them for Zobrist or Asdrubal Cabrera... We had to have SOMETHING that could have beat fucking... Zach Walters. Shit.
.MASSHOLE.
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13077410:.frenchy said:
DingoSean stole my main points. Besides playing baseball =/= understanding MLB player markets.
Lester was as good as gone because the Red Sox decided to lowball him with a 4 for $70m offer and were unable to find common ground. Therefore, rather than let Lester most likely walk and receive a compensatory pick, they swapped him for Cespedes who has a year longer on his contract. If the Red Sox were then to sign him to a new deal and couple this with some young talent, he could possibly be moved for a player like Stanton. Even if he is not, he still has hit more HR than the entire Red Sox OF this season. As Jeremy Clarkson says
Now, before you argue that the Red Sox could just sign someone in the offseason and keep Lester, the best player in the OF this offseason I believe is Nelson Cruz who is 34. The Red Sox would NEVER be willing to pay what the market will give him, especially after the Carl Crawford fuck up.
Therefore, this was the smartest move by Ben Cherington. He swapped a player who will hit the free market and possibly leave for a single pick for a young(ish) talent who will bring much needed power to the OF. Now, this also allows him to bid for Lester if he feels like it as well, for if Lester truly loves Boston and Boston doesn't completely lowball him, he could come back.
TL;DR1-Lester could leave for free, Boston needed power. Boston got power for Lester, can still possibly resign Lester.
Now in regards to Lackey. Lackey was going to be paid $500k next year. His deal stipulated that due to him missing 2012, he would be playing for league minimum. Now, it was more than likely due to his rocky relationship with Boston front office and fans that he would holdout. Of course they could have offered him a new deal, but he is 36 and not getting any younger.
Now, my understanding is that with Lester most likely leaving, Lackey requested to be traded himself, indicating that Lester was the only reason he would consider staying. So, rather than keep a player who would be unhappy and unwilling to play the next season, Cherington once again swapped him for two players. One player is a young pitcher who could be a 4th or 5th option while the other is apparently a doubling machine who can average .300 when healthy.
TL
R2-Unhappy Lackey unlikely to play next season swapped for decent talent.So, all in all, Cherington managed to swap two starting pitchers who were not even close to being Red Sox next year for MLB talent rather than prospects.
.MASSHOLE.
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13077410:.frenchy said:
Gomes? Jesus. Gomes was a WRECK this year in the field and at the plate. Sorry DingoSean, but his defense made me wince at times. His offense is decent as long as he isn't facing left-handed pitchers. If he is, well, just look away.
Yes Lester is good. Yes it stings to lose him, but that sting was nullified by bringing back a power hitter, something Boston desperately needed. I think the Yankees could relate to that right now too.
You are looking short term. There are quite a few established pitchers hitting FA this year and a few others who teams may part with when shown some prospects. You know what Boston has? Cap space and prospects. Boston, whether you realize it or not, is a big market team in baseball. They have the ability to attract players, especially with this cap space. Now, I don't expect them to sign a stupid contract like a close neighbor *cough CC, Texeria, A-Rod, maybe Ellsbury cough* after they made a horrible error in 2012, but they will be in contention for players like Scherzer, Lester, Shields, Hamels, up until a certain point. So, while this season may be a wash, next season they will be in contention once again.
But DingoSean was right about the Yankees. You guys do not have enough power or pitching to make it far. Who is your power hitter? Texeria and Beltran? Great, two players who get hurt often. Your pitching? Best player is hurt, CC is a shell of his former self, and the rest are decent at best. So, you may make the playoffs, but you will not win. Personally, I will take a WS win and missing the playoffs the next year over making the playoffs and not winning any day of the year.
.frenchy
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13077624:.MASSHOLE. said:
Didn't wanna quote any long posts but whatever... God I can't wait for tonights sox vs yanks game.... thats one more win closer to first place for the yankees
Uh,
1. Jeter is alwasy Mr. Clutch in the playoffs. Easily the shortstop to ever play baseball. And no thats not just me being a yankees fan, he's about to be #6 on the all time hits list.
2. Have you been watching Gardner hit lately....? That's some fucking power.
3. I mean, is Ellsbury not a good hitter? Way to just say Tex and Beltran LOL.
4. Uh, our pitching is actually decent.. Our bullpen is great too. Dellin Betances much? He was chosen for the ASG for a reason, he's fucking dirty. Hasn't lost a game and has an ERA below 2.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13077898:.frenchy said:Didn't wanna quote any long posts but whatever... God I can't wait for tonights sox vs yanks game.... thats one more win closer to first place for the yankees
Uh,
1. Jeter is alwasy Mr. Clutch in the playoffs. Easily the shortstop to ever play baseball. And no thats not just me being a yankees fan, he's about to be #6 on the all time hits list.
2. Have you been watching Gardner hit lately....? That's some fucking power.
3. I mean, is Ellsbury not a good hitter? Way to just say Tex and Beltran LOL.
4. Uh, our pitching is actually decent.. Our bullpen is great too. Dellin Betances much? He was chosen for the ASG for a reason, he's fucking dirty. Hasn't lost a game and has an ERA below 2.
1. David Ortiz is Mr. Clutch in the playoffs. 2004 anyone? Last year anyone? Not saying Jeter is not good, but he is 40 so you cannot rely on him to do everything.
2. Not consistent. First season he has ever hit double digit home runs.
3. .279 is less than his .295 career hitting. He has 9 HR and 48 RBIs. His OBP is .344. All of those are below career averages.
4. You have no workhorse pitchers. You won't be able to pitch Tanaka like a workhorse.
.frenchy
Active member
13077929:.MASSHOLE. said:
1. You can most definitely rely on Jeter. Just because he's 40 does not mean hes no good.... He's currently batting .280? better than most players on the redsox. Don't be a hypocrite, jeter may be 40 but Ortiz is 38....
2. And don't even say big papi is more clutch than jeter. Pretty sure one of Jeters nicknames is Mr. November, not Ortiz.
3. Did you really just say "He has 9 HR and 48 RBIs. His OBP is .344. with a .279avg" as a bad thing? LOL those are good numbers with still 2 months left of baseball... Ellsbury is doing pretty damn good so far this year, you're probably just mad he left beantown.