Israel Palestine, once and for all

TZP

TZP

Member
Many seem uninformed. This is how the story goes. After all the Jewish persecutions, the UN decided, in 1947, to separate Palestine in two states, one Jewish and one Arab (Palestine was chosen because 2000 years ago it was the "Kingdom of Judah", so for that reason, they shipped a great number of Jews there, even though it had been occupied by Arabs for quite some time). A year later, the Jewish half said fuck that and decided that they wanted independance. Palestine wasn't down with that cause it would mean they'd lose half of their land. A war ensued and the Jewish half one, forming Israel. But since they were strong they decided to make Israel bigger than half of Palestine and took an extra portion of the land. As the fights and wars continued, Israel continuously overpowered Palestine, making its territory something like 10% of what it used to be. The fight is also pretty unfair, since I've read in a paper that recently, after some combats, 700 palestinians were killed vs. 3 israelis. Now, the USA would support Israel since it's Jewish and was a result of the UN. Palestine would get the support from all the surrounding Arab countries. ...and a world war starts.
 
i cant point out anything specific, but where did you get all that from? i'm pretty sure you made a couple of big mistakes...
 
hahaha. you can't just call him out on making "big mistakes" when you can't even point out anything specific.

 
just to point out one of your mistakes they didn't ship in jews just to create another state many came because of the holocaust in europe and others came because of zionism which is the a political movement which tried to reestablish palestine as the homeland for the jewish people. And may i point out that many of the jews arriving during this period entered illegaly.
 
also isreal didnt just get in a war with palestien, egypt, syria, and all the other surrounding countries ganged up on them. they were outnumbered and thats why the un suppourted them.
 
the procedures to make Israel were already in the works before World War II though. After World War I there was the British Mandate of Palestine, that had the intent of creating a place were all jews could unite and live. That mandate was approved by the league of nations (old version of the UN).
 
Thanks for your unbiased synapsis.

You left out the fact that Isreal was originally controlled by the Jews until they were prosecuted and exiled time and time again by just about everyone. Catholics, Romans, Persians, Ottomans, idk who else but a ton of people until Isreal was no longer controlled by the Jews.

You argue that whoever had the land first should keep. And I agree with you. The Jews had it first, its their land. They have been fucked over time and time again throughout history, this is their country, and its bullshit that a bunch of angry arab terrorists are bombing innocent citizens that have jack shit to do with all this history and people are mad at Isreal who GAVE AWAY land to the arabs and supply them with water, gas lines, etc.
 
all the posters basically pointed it out for me. buts its so much more complicated than what your post originally said
 
Its not anyones land, its everyones. The Holy Land shouldnt belong to just one people, the different groups that claim it need to learn to live with one and other. Both sides are wrong, both sides are right.
 
of course its more complicated than that... I wasn't going to get into mad details in a newschoolers post... in order to mention every detail, I'd have to write an essay, at least. I just wanted to briefly summarize the whole thing because judging by some posts, some people really have no idea of whats going on and where this situation comes from.
 
by that logic we should all probably go back to europe and let the natives have their land back.

when isreal was being created it was the jews who were considered the terrorists.

the main reason for this conflict is the illegal take over of palestinian land. the massive wall between the two sides is built mostly inside of palestinian land, forcing them to even less of a place to live.
 
you also have to remember the first war for independence and how the jews were way weaker, they were throwing coke bottles filled with explosives out of tiny biplanes.

The Arab states which sent their armies against Israel the day of its founding in May, 1948 failed to kill the Jewish state but succeeded in a secondary objective - blocking a Palestinian state. In his new book on Israel's War of Independence, Israeli historian Benny Morris spells out the Arab dysfunction and Jewish cohesiveness that permitted 650,000 Palestinian Jews to forge a state 60 years ago in defiance of an Arab world which outnumbered them 40 to 1. In doing so, they belied the predictions of the CIA and the British military command that the Jewish state would be stillborn.

It was the Arabs, not the Jews, who rejected the two-state solution called for by the UN and chose war instead. Had Israel lost, he suggests, its fate would have been far worse than that suffered by the Palestinians. The Arab armies razed every Jewish settlement they captured, about a dozen, and their rhetoric threatened rivers of blood.
Check out this link for morehttp://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jun/01/the-first-arab-israeli-war/
 
Listen, arabs are targeting civilians and are trying to kill innocent people. They have car/bus bombs, and all that shit. They are not at all targeting militant forces.

The Israelis are giving Arabs a warning call, telling them where bombs are going to hit, and trying to keep the arab civilans safe. If they do not want to listen to these warnings, then they will just get blown to pieces, not a problem.

part 2. Hamass hides amongst civilians and in places that will threaten innocent people, which is why the Jews hardly have any choice about who they are killing.
 
Support the Israelis and you're a zionist. Support the Palestinians and you're anti-semetic. Say they're both to blame you're disenlightened as to the issues of the topic. This problem will not be sorted out in our lifetime. There is no way for any of us to even verge on anything new, much less convince everyone else to change their dearly held points of view. If there was an easy answer, it would have been found long ago. At this point all of us are just looking at each other through bullet proof glass shouting insults and bashing our heads against this barrier between us which isn't going to break.

In my opinion, every point of view on the matter is a legitimate one. Regardless I don't look at the matter as one of geo-political interplay, race vs. religion, or any other over-done area of discussion. I measure the legitimacy of the matter in the sphere of current human suffering. I believe its the one realm which transgresses borders, races, ethnicities and history. No matter what the occasion human siffering is wrong, should be avoided and should by no means be condoned. Those political powers which put politics ahead of what they do to their fellow human being have allowed their priorities to fall out of whack. With that in mind and making no judgement of my own I just leave the rest of you to think about it.

That's just my view.
 
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha

Let me ask you something here. Now, if you were going to try and kill someone... would you tell them where you were gonna kill them first? The whole "they give warning" thing is the biggest load of horse shit I've ever heard in my life.

And yes, they do have a choice on who they are killing. you always have a choice.
 
no, they do give warning. they say if you keep doing what your doing, were going to retaliate. I'm suprised that you dont know that country do, in fact, give legitimate warning before invasions. its not as simple as like "Hi, we were planning on bombing that school today, just do you know." but its a lot more general.

and no, they dont have a choice, if the palistinians are going to launch missles and mortars from school yards and other public places, then what is Israel supposed to do? kick back and wait for them to fire from legitimate bases out of civilians way? there is no way avoid killing these inocent people, and they do not intentionally target them

PLEASE CHECK THIS OUT - http://www.youtube.com/user/idfnadesk
 
well duh. so does every country. you made it sound as if they tell people where they are going to attack.

and yes, they do have a choice. they had a choice to not violate the ceasefire. they had a choice to fulfill the agreement that they were supposed to fulfill as a part of the ceasefire. they have a choice to not bomb schools and kill kids like they do (yeah, they could def do a better job of picking targets, they dont intentionally target civilians but they certainly dont give a shit about them.

and what are you trying to prove with that youtube link. that israel is winning the propaganda war? its fucking disturbing that they want to show off how they are killing people, yet wont allow international reporters into gaza....
 
and the warning is more like. "hi, due to the actions of a terrorist group, you need to all get the fuck out of your country, or were going to bomb the shit out of you." sounds fair doesnt it?
 
how do you exactly know that israel broke the ceasefire. there are too many events to point a finger at a single side. sure israelis killed some gunmen, but that was maybe because they captured 2 IDF soldiers.
 
not to mention the israelis would certainly have said that when asked about the attack. instead they said

"This was a pinpoint operation intended to prevent an immediate threat," the Israeli military said in a statement. "There is no intention to disrupt the ceasefire, rather the purpose of the operation was to remove an immediate and dangerous threat posted by the Hamas terror organisation."
 
IT TOOK TIME, BUT WE GAVE THE NATIVE AMERICANS THEIR LAND BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SURE, THEY GOT FUCKED OVER, BUT AT THIS POINT THEY HAVE SOOOO MANY RESERVATIONS AND CAN BYPASS SO MANY LAWS, GET TONS OF MONEY FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND ARE INCREDIBLY RICH AND HAPPY. WE OBVIOUSLY CAN'T GO BACK IN TIME AND REWIND WHAT HAPPENED, BUT WE HAVE DONE SO MUCH SHIT FOR NATIVE AMERICANS AND IT GENERALLY WORKED OUT.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

THE JEWS WERE TERRORISTS. HAHAHAH ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED. THE JEWISH PEOPLE WENT TO SETTLE THE UNSETTLED ISREAL FROM EGYPT AFTER THEY ESCAPED SLAVERY YOU DUMB FUCK. SOME JEWS BELIEVE THAT THIS LAND WAS GIVEN TO THEM BY GOD BUT REALLY THEY JUST FOUND IT

THEN HISTORY GOES BY AND JUST ABOUT EVERYONE IN THE MIDDLE EAST FUCKS OVER THE JEWS AHEEM THE ARABS, ROMANS, CHRSISTIANS, OTTOMANS AND JEWS GET FUCKED OUTA THEIR HOLY LAND, SOME MOVE TO EUROPE WHERE THEY GET FUCKED OVER IN THE HOLOCAUST AND IT IS DECIDED THAT THEY CAN LIVE IN THEIR RIGHTFUL ISREAL BUT THE PALESTINIAN THEIFS DON'T LET THEM CAUSE THEY ARE FUCKING TERRORIST DICKS BUT ISREAL KICKS ASS AND RIGHTFULLY FOUNDS A GREAT COUNTRY. THEN IS NICE ENOUGH TO GIVE THE PALESTINIANS THE GAZA STRIP BUT NO, THEY ARE NOT HAPPY ENOUGH, THEY ELECT THE HAMAS WHO SEND ROCKETS INTO PEACEFUL, CIVILIAN ISREAL

ok, sorryu
 
Why does Isreal and their conflicts get so much attention??
There has been war going on in the Congo, Thailand, Columbia, ect. but, you hear very little if anything about it. Why has the Middle East become so important, is it because of the oil there, is it because the U.S. is still in the region and now we (Americans) feel like we are responsible for everything happening in the Mid. East, or is it because some of the worlds greatest (largest, strongest, ect.) religions call this land "their" Holy Land? Why does it get so much media attention? Let alone Newschooler attention (what is it up to now thre threads?).
Maby I am just missing something but, the Kivu Conflict going on in the Democratic Republic of the Congo has killed an estimated 4 million people since 1997, and I had not heard anything about it till maby a week ago. I might just be watching the wrong news or something.....
I just find it odd, that the Middle East, especially Isreal and the Gaza strip, get so much media coverage while other wars/conflicts do not even get mentioned.
 
^ I would have to say that you already answered your question

plus Isreal is a developed nation unlike the ones you mentioned
 
Listen, It must be established that the Israeli's are warning the Palestinians of attacks. As ABC News even reports on January 8, 2009, "Israel has warned residents of southern Gaza to flee their homes ahead of renewed air strikes later today." If Gazans cannot take these warning seriously and continue to remain in their homes, then they are destined to get the shit blow out of them; they are simply asking for it.

Once again, the palestinians were warned with pamphlets, stating that "You have until 8:00am (5:00pm AEDT)" on Thursday" (ABC News). Israel blantantly dropped pamphlets stating this as another warning. The Arabs must believe them and leave before more innocent people get killed.

The Arabs are just digging the hole deeper and deeper.
 
wait so first you thank him for being unbiased but point out that he should have been more biased? had you done the synapsis, it sounds like it would have had a strong bias in fact.
 
WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE TO LEAVE.

regardless of the OTHER big problem that drew pointed out, what makes the israelis so much better? why shouldnt all the israelis leave from where the Palestinians are firing rockets?
 
dude... you have no idea what your saying...

they dont HAVE to leave... but israel is decent enough to tell them that if you dont, your going to get blown the fuck up.

and whats do you mean what makes israel better? paletinian extremests dont go around saying "hey, i have a huge bomb strapped around my waist, i would suggest you move out of the way in the next 5 minutes so you dont get blow to peices like me" if palistinias said they were going to bomb a specific plae, then they would leave that place...

your an idiot for saying that...

and to drew, well i cant respond to that, that was wrong... but just think about all the palistinians blowing up public busses and suicide bombing city centers....
 
Okay, lets say you get showered with leaflets telling you your home is going to be bombed. Just where exactly do you go? There are air strikes and military forces everywhere, no place is safe. Fuck, a UN school got hit a few days ago, nowhere is safe.
 
so youre saying that if say, some jewish people were "decent enough" to announce they were going to bomb your place, it would be fine? The Palestinian extremist attacks are desperate acts they make to try and retaliate, because they don't have any other ways of doing so. I don't know if you check the news, but in a day, 800 palestinians were killed versus 7 israelis.
 
i mean what makes the israeli cause right, and the palestinian cause wrong. if the israelis dont like the rocket attacks, (btw, were talking about rocket attacks here, idk why you keep going on about car bombs...) why dont THEY leave.

decent enough? ah yes, nothing says decency like "hi, get the fuck out or we'll blow up your house." or kill 20 kids when we blow up a fucking UN school. stop pretending the israelis are this innocent, perfect, kind country. both sides are just as incredibly fucked up.
 
BECAUSE ITS THEIR LAND YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
Israel has been there land since the time of the pharaohs of Egypt. Long before the Islamic faith had even begun. When their land was decided to be given back to them, the Palistinians were there and it was divided. Hamas decides to shoot some rockets and kill civilians with terrorist attacks, Israel has no choice of retalitating. Just a hypothetical question here... lets say Mexico decides to elect a terrorist organization as their government...this group decides to send a few rockets over the boarder into Cali...and blows up a few buses killing hundreds of innocent people. Would you be upset with your government if they didnt retaliate agaisnt an attack aimed at killing innocent people?

The fighting would stop if Hamas stops killing innocent civilians.

And the simple fact that shows itself cannot be argued with. Hamas and muslim extremists target INNOCENT israeli CIVILIANS while the IDF tries their hardest to take out just threats. War is war innocent people die, but at least the IDF doesn't just shell the entire fuck out of the country like all of europe and the United States did during WWII. Hamas target civilians, the IDF targets Hamas and war is war, there will be some collateral damage esspecially when the people you are fighting hide behind the civilians they are trying to "free"
 
more like, lets say that suddenly, the un decides our people need a new country/more land. so they take part of mexico, and just kick everyone out and say "here you go" now hmmm, big fucking surprise, mexico is NOT too happpy about that. also, in the case of the current ceasefire, lets say we have one with mexico. now, in the midst of a cease fire, WE go in, and kill some mexican army people. again big fucking surprise, they arent stoked. along with that, lets say that we were supposed to open up the border some, since life for those mexicans is kinda tough since we relegated them to this small area. but wait, we dont do that either. yet again, shockingly, the mexicans are pissed. your analogy sucks.
 
lol. so explain the ration of deaths there to me why dont ya? if they are trying so hard to avoid civilian deaths, while hamas is trying so hard to kill civilians, why is the palestinian civilian death toll exponentially higher?
 
Im bring up the car bombing as an example, what im trying to say is that israel warns the palistinian civilians before they blow shit it (whether what they are blowing up is right or wrong, atleast they try to avoid civilians). Palistinians target civilians when they shell cities and blow up busses and what not.

so i think a warning is more decent than no warning at all (whether what they are doing is right or wrong). And as for the UN school, the palistinians were launching missles from the school, Israel has no choice, the palistinians have a tactic where they sheild themselves with civilians so that israel cant kill soldiers without killing civilians, making them look like dicks. If israel could shoot some magic missles that only killed soldiers, im sure they would, but we know thats not possible, so if there is a threat that they HAVE to neutrulize, they cannot worry about whats infront of that threat, such as a school.

im not saying israel is innocent, but what im saying is that they are warning people before blowing shit it up to avoid civilians instead of targeting them. and when a missle launcher that need to be taken out has a school around it, they have to do what they have to do. The palistinias elected Hamas to lead the country, they elected these people that put their lives in the way of missles
 
I know this isn't even the point of this thread but when I saw this statement I just had to say something and that is this:
That is perhaps the single most uninformed bullshit that I have ever heard and completely destroys your credibility to the extent that you should not comment on anything until you learn the history of your own country. "BUT WE HAVE DONE SO MUCH SHIT FOR NATIVE AMERICANS AND IT GENERALLY WORKED OUT." Hahahaha.
 
well if they owned the land the mexicans were on, like Britian owned Israel, then technically they could do it. no mexico owns mexico, so your example isnt valid. Britian gave Israel the land. they didnt exactly say "were moving in, get the fuck out if your here, this is now our land. they have tried to share it but the palistinians dont want to share, leading to shit war
 
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