Help my dad choose his next car!
- Thread starter blindside
- Start date
tronned
Active member
what, i swore you could have said quattro was better?
thats what i thought. Unequal axle lengths make a massive difference, its additional torque and flex required to spin the further length axle, its common sense. Dont preach to me, I work for VW/Porsche as a tech, ive driven every car under the sun. Understeer maybe an issue in subbies if youre a pylon and driving a rally race in the snow, but for an everyday driver understeer means jackshit, people in pursuit of an awd system are more interested in traction. Basing your claim of your "personal" experience does not deter the matter that equal driveshaft length is technically a better system as its common fucking sense, there is no method for a vw/audi front diff to split torque to adjust for a longer axle therefore power/traction is lost. Thanks for the pep talk though.
pRETTyLight5
Member
^^these are good suggestions. I would suggest doing some test drives with your dad, however. Little known fact: Car dealers will let you try cars for free before you buy them. Some will even let you take the car home and back again the next morning so you can drive the roads you normally drive to work and back to home.
sparknotes: Dont let NS test drive cars for you.
sparknotes: Dont let NS test drive cars for you.
tronned
Active member
subie is 90/10 only for auto tranny subies. 50/50 for 5/6 speeds.
audi/vw awd is 300-500 lbs, subbie is 150 lbs.
Audi has more ability to transfer power wheel to wheel as both front and rear diffs are limited slip/ electronically controlled.
north american subbies have mechanical lsd in the rear for some models like sti/imprezas where as vw/audi have electronic diffs now a days so they technically are not full lsd.
On a racing standpoint, audi has a better system. As for traction in complete loss of traction of all wheels, the subbies will have a better chance of pulling themselves out, this is all i am stating. Im not talking in a sense he is driving to the race track in 3 feet of snow then hitting the track for a couple time attack laps then heading home.... Im talking about everyday guy who doesnt know how to drive in deep snow or in loss of traction issues. The equal length drive axles allow MORE power to transfer to the ground in loss of traction situations therefore offer additional grunt to pull out of hairy situations.... Not road course performance.
audi/vw awd is 300-500 lbs, subbie is 150 lbs.
Audi has more ability to transfer power wheel to wheel as both front and rear diffs are limited slip/ electronically controlled.
north american subbies have mechanical lsd in the rear for some models like sti/imprezas where as vw/audi have electronic diffs now a days so they technically are not full lsd.
On a racing standpoint, audi has a better system. As for traction in complete loss of traction of all wheels, the subbies will have a better chance of pulling themselves out, this is all i am stating. Im not talking in a sense he is driving to the race track in 3 feet of snow then hitting the track for a couple time attack laps then heading home.... Im talking about everyday guy who doesnt know how to drive in deep snow or in loss of traction issues. The equal length drive axles allow MORE power to transfer to the ground in loss of traction situations therefore offer additional grunt to pull out of hairy situations.... Not road course performance.
charmander
Active member
awd challenger would make your dad a badass
Steezy_Street
Member
HSV GTS. Cant got wrong with a 6.2 V8.
hmmmm i didnt see any audi, or quattro system in that video.... 4motion and quattro are definitely not the same. though i do believe some audis use the 4 motion or haldex system.. but im talking about quattro.
I have never heard of unequal length driveshafts hurting an awd system, it creates torque steer in a FWD car. the shorter side reaching peak torque slightly earlier than the longer side doesnt seem like it would affect traction in any noticeable way in an AWD car. plus, if im not mistaken, dont most audi's have equal length driveshafts??
anyway, sure, equal length driveshafts may be superior to unequal length, but the torsen AWD system is still much better than a viscous system. which more than makes up for any disadvantage the unequal length driveshafts(on some audi's) might create.
and yeah understeer might not be a huge concern for your average shitty driver. but its still nice to be able to avoid something in a panic situation and not just push straight off the road.
and my opinions are still all based on performance, whatever system gives the most driver feedback, corners the best and provides the best balance is what im going to choose. and you would think all the ken block wannabe's in their wrx's/sti's would be the same.... if i just wanted to get out of the ditch that my understeering subaru got me into, id buy an suv or a truck, with 4wd and lockers.
I have never heard of unequal length driveshafts hurting an awd system, it creates torque steer in a FWD car. the shorter side reaching peak torque slightly earlier than the longer side doesnt seem like it would affect traction in any noticeable way in an AWD car. plus, if im not mistaken, dont most audi's have equal length driveshafts??
anyway, sure, equal length driveshafts may be superior to unequal length, but the torsen AWD system is still much better than a viscous system. which more than makes up for any disadvantage the unequal length driveshafts(on some audi's) might create.
and yeah understeer might not be a huge concern for your average shitty driver. but its still nice to be able to avoid something in a panic situation and not just push straight off the road.
and my opinions are still all based on performance, whatever system gives the most driver feedback, corners the best and provides the best balance is what im going to choose. and you would think all the ken block wannabe's in their wrx's/sti's would be the same.... if i just wanted to get out of the ditch that my understeering subaru got me into, id buy an suv or a truck, with 4wd and lockers.
tronned
Active member
yeah, audi uses some electric systems now. I believe haldex for a3/tt. The true quattro system is a beast of a system with locking diffs, dont get me wrong. I owned 2 quattros in my life so far. I have never owned a subbie and am not in anyway a subie fan boy. Audis current setups do not allow for equal drive shafts, so im 90 percent sure all true quattro's use different length front drive shafts.
If you think about the longer drive shaft on a purely mechanical standpoint. Think of a shorter stick with one end in a vice and the other end in your hand and you torque the stick..... it will hardly twist but on the otherhand if you had a longer stick in the same situation it will flex and bend when torque is applied. The same principle applies to driveshafts, so it takes additional power to get the longer stick to move... the stick will FLEX then after its maximum tensile strength is met, only then will the axle start to move the wheel..... see what im saying?
This is why i am stressing the ability of the subbie to get out of complete loss of traction situations is superior to a audi/vw. If you want the best of both worlds, get a porsche as they use mechanical awd systems and have equal driveshafts.
Most consumers dont care about the details of "understeer/balance" when they purchase a awd car, they consider a car like a legacy as a cheaper alternative to an suv and just wish to have awd for the additional traction, they will never see a race track or autocross. These are the reason i am stressing that subbie is a better "everyday" awd system as the cost of upkeep is less, traction in "stuck" situations is better, and on most occasions the fuel economy is a wee bit better than audi/vw unless you get a diesel.
Dont think im trying to shoot down the audi awd system, i just think you are doing a "boy racer" approach to what the dude dad actually needs.
If you think about the longer drive shaft on a purely mechanical standpoint. Think of a shorter stick with one end in a vice and the other end in your hand and you torque the stick..... it will hardly twist but on the otherhand if you had a longer stick in the same situation it will flex and bend when torque is applied. The same principle applies to driveshafts, so it takes additional power to get the longer stick to move... the stick will FLEX then after its maximum tensile strength is met, only then will the axle start to move the wheel..... see what im saying?
This is why i am stressing the ability of the subbie to get out of complete loss of traction situations is superior to a audi/vw. If you want the best of both worlds, get a porsche as they use mechanical awd systems and have equal driveshafts.
Most consumers dont care about the details of "understeer/balance" when they purchase a awd car, they consider a car like a legacy as a cheaper alternative to an suv and just wish to have awd for the additional traction, they will never see a race track or autocross. These are the reason i am stressing that subbie is a better "everyday" awd system as the cost of upkeep is less, traction in "stuck" situations is better, and on most occasions the fuel economy is a wee bit better than audi/vw unless you get a diesel.
Dont think im trying to shoot down the audi awd system, i just think you are doing a "boy racer" approach to what the dude dad actually needs.
*rkp*
Active member
back on topic:
has your dad/you looked at (or know of) volvo R cars?
he should take a look at an S60R.
awd, 300hp turbo 5cyl, roomy+well equipped, bulletproof.
they come with manual transmissions as well.
the V70R is the same car is wagon form:
they're right in the price range too, and there should be a ton for sale on the east coast/quebec.
I would seriously consider one of these.
has your dad/you looked at (or know of) volvo R cars?
he should take a look at an S60R.
awd, 300hp turbo 5cyl, roomy+well equipped, bulletproof.
they come with manual transmissions as well.
the V70R is the same car is wagon form:
they're right in the price range too, and there should be a ton for sale on the east coast/quebec.
I would seriously consider one of these.
low_fidelity
Active member
Datsun!
blindside
Active member
Thanks for all the info and suggestions guys. I'm not overlooking the VW posts, they were already a consideration.
Also, ya I'm definitely going to tell my dad to immediately purchase the first car an nser recomends. Fuck it I'll tell him to order it offline, who even bothers going to the dealership nowadays?? Assholes.
Also, ya I'm definitely going to tell my dad to immediately purchase the first car an nser recomends. Fuck it I'll tell him to order it offline, who even bothers going to the dealership nowadays?? Assholes.
Ski_the_east01
Active member
love you for posting these
FilmingBitch
Active member
Get some hardcore ice and snow specific tires and you'll be flyin high with a Subaru. Anyway, everyone seemed to ignore the "must be same price range" qualification, so I'm going to lay it out nice and simple.
People suggested the Evo: it is nice, and it is comparable to the Impreza, however it starts at 41k and the base model is barebones. The Lancer starts at 17k, which is nice, but it comes with nothing (in my opinion). I would still choose a WRX over either of them - even a regular Impreza - but if you would like to I suggest taking one for a test drive anyway. They are definitely hot cars.
People suggested Audis: also very nice, but much more expensive. You could get the new WRX STI Sedan for the same price as a base model A3 (37k) and you'd be getting 100 more HP and have full control over the differential.
Best bang for your buck? Subaru 100%.
I've driven the '02 WRX, '02 Outback, '04 Legacy. '06 WRX, '09 Impreza (wagon and sedan), '10 WRX 265, '10 STi, and '10 Legacy. I don't think I will ever buy anything that isn't Subaru (other than a truck) because for the money it is the best. Even regardless of money, still my top manufacturer.
I swear I am not paid to promote Subaru. The only conflict of interest is that they sponsor the CSIA, but that hardly counts.
People suggested the Evo: it is nice, and it is comparable to the Impreza, however it starts at 41k and the base model is barebones. The Lancer starts at 17k, which is nice, but it comes with nothing (in my opinion). I would still choose a WRX over either of them - even a regular Impreza - but if you would like to I suggest taking one for a test drive anyway. They are definitely hot cars.
People suggested Audis: also very nice, but much more expensive. You could get the new WRX STI Sedan for the same price as a base model A3 (37k) and you'd be getting 100 more HP and have full control over the differential.
Best bang for your buck? Subaru 100%.
I've driven the '02 WRX, '02 Outback, '04 Legacy. '06 WRX, '09 Impreza (wagon and sedan), '10 WRX 265, '10 STi, and '10 Legacy. I don't think I will ever buy anything that isn't Subaru (other than a truck) because for the money it is the best. Even regardless of money, still my top manufacturer.
I swear I am not paid to promote Subaru. The only conflict of interest is that they sponsor the CSIA, but that hardly counts.
FilmingBitch
Active member
Oh and I don't know anything about Volvos, but it looks like they are worth looking into. So, if I were your dad, my test drive list (for the money) would be; Subarus (whichever), Lancer, the aforementioned Volvos
.AR6rider.
Active member
Agreed, I've always loved the S60R. I knew a kid in high school who had one and I was always so jealous. Then again, this was at a high school where M3s, STis, and Mustang Cobras were always parked in the lot. FML with my Mazda 3 haha.
i understand that equal length driveshafts is ideal, and superior to unequal length.. but i dont see how it could make up for the viscous diff being quite a bit worse than the torsen... the torsen transfers torque better, and it transfers torque to the slipping wheel before it has completely slipped(if that makes sense) i know personal experience doesnt really prove anything, but i have driven many many subarus in the snow, and 3 different audis, and even getting unstuck, moving from a stop, the audi's were always noticeably better. they just had more traction all the time. i even drove a b5 s4 with high performance street tires in the snow and was impressed with how well i could get around.
but i agree with you that the average consumer doesnt know how the hell his awd system works, he just wants something that will get him from A to B. and any subaru, audi, or awd car will do a fine job, and your average shitty driver isnt going to know the difference between the best and the worst system.
but still im always going to think performance based.. because thats much more important to me.
but i agree with you that the average consumer doesnt know how the hell his awd system works, he just wants something that will get him from A to B. and any subaru, audi, or awd car will do a fine job, and your average shitty driver isnt going to know the difference between the best and the worst system.
but still im always going to think performance based.. because thats much more important to me.
they drive like crap though. yes they are awesome looking. but ive got a good friend with one and when you are anywhere near its limit it just performs like crap.. as a car that your just going to cruise around in it would be awesome, just not as a performance car. they also seem to be pretty damn unreliable.
connory998
Active member
arn't Lancers (NOT Evolutions) FWD?
*rkp*
Active member
well for the OP's DAD's purposes (actually, anyone driving on normal roads, and not tracking their cars) these cars perform very well. much better than an "average" car.
comfortable, quick, stable (loosely sprung)
and I have no idea where you're coming from either when you say that a modern volvo is "unreliable".unreliable to your friend who bags on his R "near its limit"?
I'll just go ahead and say that you're either dealing with an isolated incident, or you have no idea what you're talking about.
These cars are performance cars, just not up to par with what they were meant to compete with (S4, M3 etc).
don't say they handle like crap and are soft just because you hear Jeremy Clarkson say that..
comfortable, quick, stable (loosely sprung)
and I have no idea where you're coming from either when you say that a modern volvo is "unreliable".unreliable to your friend who bags on his R "near its limit"?
I'll just go ahead and say that you're either dealing with an isolated incident, or you have no idea what you're talking about.
These cars are performance cars, just not up to par with what they were meant to compete with (S4, M3 etc).
don't say they handle like crap and are soft just because you hear Jeremy Clarkson say that..
i am just judging the reliability off my friends experience, and he has had to dump a ton into repairs, i think over 8 grand.. yes he does drive it hard, but a sports car should be able to be driven hard without destorying everything. the tranny had to be replaced before 70k miles, as well as the clutch and many other drivetrain issues.
though im sure if you took it easy most the time it would be much more reliable, modern volvo's arent anything amazing in terms of reliability, parts arent so cheap either..
and i say it handles like crap because i have driven it a lot. its soft, and its very poorly balanced. its twitchy at the limit, and extremely hard to get it to do anything other than push, when you do get it to oversteer it snaps into it, you correct it and it goes back into a big push. you cant get it to hold a nice, very slight slip angle, like you can on many awd cars, even fwd cars that understeer naturally. i blame some of this on the numb steering feel, which makes it very hard to stay ahead of the car, its hard to tell the front end is going to push until you are already there.now i know im sounding extremely critical, but thats because its easy to be. this is the type of car that you just have to drive around spiritedly at most, which it is fine for. its a somewhat sporty cool looking car, thats what you have to buy it for, not as a high performance sports car because it just isnt.
though im sure if you took it easy most the time it would be much more reliable, modern volvo's arent anything amazing in terms of reliability, parts arent so cheap either..
and i say it handles like crap because i have driven it a lot. its soft, and its very poorly balanced. its twitchy at the limit, and extremely hard to get it to do anything other than push, when you do get it to oversteer it snaps into it, you correct it and it goes back into a big push. you cant get it to hold a nice, very slight slip angle, like you can on many awd cars, even fwd cars that understeer naturally. i blame some of this on the numb steering feel, which makes it very hard to stay ahead of the car, its hard to tell the front end is going to push until you are already there.now i know im sounding extremely critical, but thats because its easy to be. this is the type of car that you just have to drive around spiritedly at most, which it is fine for. its a somewhat sporty cool looking car, thats what you have to buy it for, not as a high performance sports car because it just isnt.
FilmingBitch
Active member
Pretty sure, that's why it's really not worth it - however it's in the price range that's why I said to test it (also I know the Impreza would win the drive off hehehe)
FilmingBitch
Active member
Yes it is, but base is $31k rather than $15k - I was mostly drawing a comparison between base Lancer and base Impreza ($21k), even though they are not equally matched.
I suppose if you compared the Ralliart to the WRX it would be more fairly matched, as they are the same price range. I don't know much about the Ralliart other than that its also turbocharged and around the same hp? Have you driven both? I wouldn't mind comparing the two, maybe I'll go for some test drives in a few weeks for shits and giggles.
I suppose if you compared the Ralliart to the WRX it would be more fairly matched, as they are the same price range. I don't know much about the Ralliart other than that its also turbocharged and around the same hp? Have you driven both? I wouldn't mind comparing the two, maybe I'll go for some test drives in a few weeks for shits and giggles.
connory998
Active member
and " a somewhat sporty cool looking car" that performs well in the winter and can fit skis seems to be exactly what this guys dad wants, and is why this car was recommended.
@skiinmitch
Active member
Audi A6 Avant
the base for the ralliart is 27 i think, so yeah it best to compare it to the wrx. if its just a slower more basic evo, id maybe even like it better than the evo, because i just couldnt stand how much the electronics controlled everything. but just knowing how evo's and imprezas compare in snow, the ralliart might be better balanced. because evos do drive very well in snow. imprezas are just so so IMO.
i wouldnt even consider a base lancer or impreza. why not just buy a year old wrx or ralliart for the same price?
also im not sure what all his dad needs, but i wouldnt rule out a RWD or FWD car. get some really good studded snow tires and it will get around better than an awd car with good all seasons or crappy snow tires. ive been driving around a RWD car in snow for years, ive only gotten stuck once, going up a steep hill in over 2 feet of snow, then i just had to back up and get a better run at it...if he can consider RWD and FWD cars it opens up a lot more, and potentially better options.
i wouldnt even consider a base lancer or impreza. why not just buy a year old wrx or ralliart for the same price?
also im not sure what all his dad needs, but i wouldnt rule out a RWD or FWD car. get some really good studded snow tires and it will get around better than an awd car with good all seasons or crappy snow tires. ive been driving around a RWD car in snow for years, ive only gotten stuck once, going up a steep hill in over 2 feet of snow, then i just had to back up and get a better run at it...if he can consider RWD and FWD cars it opens up a lot more, and potentially better options.
low_fidelity
Active member
Datsuns!
FilmingBitch
Active member
Yea I was quoting CAN prices (even though our dollar is higher not everything reflects that.. bah!). And I think (I am not sure at all) that the Ralliart uses a different differential than the Evo, but I'm not sure in what way.
In Ontario there are some funky laws for studded tires... Northern Ontario residents are allowed to use them between October and April (anywhere in Ontario) but Southern Ontario residents are not allowed to use them ever. And it's only lightweight studs (unless your from out of province and you're allowed to have heavy studs if you're in the province for less than 30 days...). So studs are only an option if they are legal where the OP lives.
OP: where do you live?
My new test drive list: Lancer Ralliart, WRX, Volvo R (for what the OP wants it looks pretty good)
From just a brief glance, the Volvo looks like it has an upper hand in terms of cargo space - is this true? Unfortunately though, I have experienced first hand how expensive Volvo parts are (my friend and I hit a deer on the way to Blue).
In Ontario there are some funky laws for studded tires... Northern Ontario residents are allowed to use them between October and April (anywhere in Ontario) but Southern Ontario residents are not allowed to use them ever. And it's only lightweight studs (unless your from out of province and you're allowed to have heavy studs if you're in the province for less than 30 days...). So studs are only an option if they are legal where the OP lives.
OP: where do you live?
My new test drive list: Lancer Ralliart, WRX, Volvo R (for what the OP wants it looks pretty good)
From just a brief glance, the Volvo looks like it has an upper hand in terms of cargo space - is this true? Unfortunately though, I have experienced first hand how expensive Volvo parts are (my friend and I hit a deer on the way to Blue).
connory998
Active member
his profile says montreal, and according to this studs are allowed.
http://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/page/portal/accueil_en/faq/pneus_crampons
http://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/page/portal/accueil_en/faq/pneus_crampons
tronned
Active member
volvo has horrible customer satisfaction reliability scores, just fyi. Not to mention volvo parts are not cheap. They are snazzy and different but have hardly any aftermarket part support ( not performance, im talking about OEM remans). Dont buy a volvo if you plan to keep it after the warranty is up.
This same statement applies to subaru, they cost a shit load to repair after the warranty expires. The cost of parts for subbies is not the problem, its the drivetrain layout that leads to more labour costs. On a recent survey i read, subbie ranked 11th on number of claims which is pretty good, but the average costs of repairs is 829 pounds, that is horrible.
Try to get a traditional japanese (non subbie) awd car or FWD car with a mechanical LSD/good set of snow tires if your father wants to keep the car longer than the warranty, IMO.
This same statement applies to subaru, they cost a shit load to repair after the warranty expires. The cost of parts for subbies is not the problem, its the drivetrain layout that leads to more labour costs. On a recent survey i read, subbie ranked 11th on number of claims which is pretty good, but the average costs of repairs is 829 pounds, that is horrible.
Try to get a traditional japanese (non subbie) awd car or FWD car with a mechanical LSD/good set of snow tires if your father wants to keep the car longer than the warranty, IMO.
FilmingBitch
Active member
Yea I've heard people say that, although my subie has had a very low number of repairs and it's got 260k km (it's an 02). I guess I'm the exception to the rule! Although none of our other Subies had trouble either EXCEPT my brother's STi that had an engine failure (yes I know that is huge) which Subaru fully covered. I think for leasing it is still a good deal... Would it really cost less to buy an Audi though? I mean how hard are you driving your Subarus that they fall apart like that? I am not well versed in Audi pricing, but I was under the impression is was almost double for the same kind of power, etc. I LOVE Audis and I would consider buying one if Subarus weren't so afforadable... however if what you are saying is true then I may have to revise my life plan haha. Right now I've got a '93 Corvette as my "don't give a shit I want to go fast" car....now THERE'S a car that has issues. It's working well now, but the previous owner must have really beat on the tranny.
Another new consideration: does the OP plan on buying, leasing, or financing? i.e. is this short term, long term etc.
Another new consideration: does the OP plan on buying, leasing, or financing? i.e. is this short term, long term etc.
tronned
Active member
audi does not belong in the same car market bracket with subaru, different markets.
audi - best interiors in modern car makers, solid fit and finish, heavy costs for service in regards to the service packages set out by audi every 15k km. Audi has bumper to bumper everything damn thing in the car warranty for 4 years /80k km, no questions asked. The focus of audi is not "lets go fast all the time and suffer in fit and finish", keep in mind audi changed automotive design and production more than any other car man. in the past 27 years. You may not get a straight line speed out of an audi like a 265 wrx or sti, but it is without a doubt far better interior quality and engineering of audi destroys subaru. Quattro uses mechanical components to achieve awd and the drive train adds roughly 300-400 pounds to weight of car. Reliability of audi/vw is not good, prior to popular believe.... modern audi's have 60-80 modules (computers) in their cars and are ripe with technology but still fall victim to electrical and coding issues. most require 91 octane fuel. direct injection motors have issues with carbon building up on the tip and causing massive amounts of misfires, extremely costly to repair. More of a cruising/ luxury car.
subaru- mid price range awd platform cars. All cars share the same drivetrain layout of boxer engine with "fulltime" awd. Automatic subarus are not awd persay, they are bias 90/10 percent so more or less its front wheel drive 95 percent of the time. 5/6speed subbies are 50/50 bias, a more "true" AWD system. The latest generation of STi/wrx has taken a step back in quality of build for their engines as they have stepped away from the "costly" forged internals and moved to "cast" internals, hence the problem with these new cars needing an engine replacement in the first year of ownership. Subaru is known for weaker transmissions in 02/03. Subbie has equal length drive shafts in their drivetrain layouts which allow for more torque to be applied to achieve traction in complete losses of traction. The AWD system of subaru is vastly different than Quattro in a sense it relies heavy on input from computers to detect wheel slip and then transfers the power. The drivetrain layout of subbie leads to some simple repairs such as a generator replacement/ spark plug replacements to call for the engine to be dropped or removed from the car which in turn drives up repair costs. More of a outdoorsy/ sport oriented car.
Subaru is not cheap at all. A decently optioned WRX is close to 40k, a decently optioned audi is 50-55k.
These 2 companies share no "company direction" motives, and realistically should not be grouped together since they both have AWD, many other car companies produce many many AWD cars but somehow dont get grouped into this battle.
audi - best interiors in modern car makers, solid fit and finish, heavy costs for service in regards to the service packages set out by audi every 15k km. Audi has bumper to bumper everything damn thing in the car warranty for 4 years /80k km, no questions asked. The focus of audi is not "lets go fast all the time and suffer in fit and finish", keep in mind audi changed automotive design and production more than any other car man. in the past 27 years. You may not get a straight line speed out of an audi like a 265 wrx or sti, but it is without a doubt far better interior quality and engineering of audi destroys subaru. Quattro uses mechanical components to achieve awd and the drive train adds roughly 300-400 pounds to weight of car. Reliability of audi/vw is not good, prior to popular believe.... modern audi's have 60-80 modules (computers) in their cars and are ripe with technology but still fall victim to electrical and coding issues. most require 91 octane fuel. direct injection motors have issues with carbon building up on the tip and causing massive amounts of misfires, extremely costly to repair. More of a cruising/ luxury car.
subaru- mid price range awd platform cars. All cars share the same drivetrain layout of boxer engine with "fulltime" awd. Automatic subarus are not awd persay, they are bias 90/10 percent so more or less its front wheel drive 95 percent of the time. 5/6speed subbies are 50/50 bias, a more "true" AWD system. The latest generation of STi/wrx has taken a step back in quality of build for their engines as they have stepped away from the "costly" forged internals and moved to "cast" internals, hence the problem with these new cars needing an engine replacement in the first year of ownership. Subaru is known for weaker transmissions in 02/03. Subbie has equal length drive shafts in their drivetrain layouts which allow for more torque to be applied to achieve traction in complete losses of traction. The AWD system of subaru is vastly different than Quattro in a sense it relies heavy on input from computers to detect wheel slip and then transfers the power. The drivetrain layout of subbie leads to some simple repairs such as a generator replacement/ spark plug replacements to call for the engine to be dropped or removed from the car which in turn drives up repair costs. More of a outdoorsy/ sport oriented car.
Subaru is not cheap at all. A decently optioned WRX is close to 40k, a decently optioned audi is 50-55k.
These 2 companies share no "company direction" motives, and realistically should not be grouped together since they both have AWD, many other car companies produce many many AWD cars but somehow dont get grouped into this battle.
FilmingBitch
Active member
^ Thaaaank you for that, very informative. I never considered them to be in the same market either, but they kept getting grouped in - I think I still consider them in different price categories, maybe because of Audi being more luxurious. The Subaru interiors are definitely barebones, and the back seats SUCK. Anyway, this guy knows what up listen to him.
yeah i have never been impressed with subarus reliability. my friends outback had a crap load of transmission troubles, cost him around 6 grand, for two transmissions that had the same problem. then another 3k or so for misc. repairs, this was only over 3 years. another friend has owned two sti's an 06, and a 2010, he sold the first one because it was having nonstop problems, the new one he decided to modify, drove it for a couple weeks, and it hasnt been on the road for something like 5 months. in my experience im really not any more impressed with their reliability than i am with audis.
i would never buy a new audi, i have yet to be impressed with one of their 03ish and up models. they are some of the least invloving cars out there, you can definitely tell there are "60-80 modules" controlling everything because its basically doing all the driving for you. but i do love older audi's, the 1st gen s4's 90's coupe quattro's, ur quattro, c4 s6 avant, etc.. id buy any of those over any of audi's newer models, and id trust a 90's reliability over most subaru's for sure. i cant talk from experience but from what ive heard those things are tanks.
i would never buy a new audi, i have yet to be impressed with one of their 03ish and up models. they are some of the least invloving cars out there, you can definitely tell there are "60-80 modules" controlling everything because its basically doing all the driving for you. but i do love older audi's, the 1st gen s4's 90's coupe quattro's, ur quattro, c4 s6 avant, etc.. id buy any of those over any of audi's newer models, and id trust a 90's reliability over most subaru's for sure. i cant talk from experience but from what ive heard those things are tanks.
tronned
Active member
i owned an 90 quattro, b5 a4, and my good friend has the fastest urs4 in canada as of 2 years ago.... oil spilled onto the hot turbo and burnt the car though recently. Was a super nice car but was constantly parked due to engine problems, but it was insanely modified so its not a good gauge.
inline 5 motors are bulletproof for the most part, ive seen a few headgasket issues but not much else. The prob with 90's is parts are harder and harder to find at decent prices, not a common car to see on a wrecker yard.
inline 5 motors are bulletproof for the most part, ive seen a few headgasket issues but not much else. The prob with 90's is parts are harder and harder to find at decent prices, not a common car to see on a wrecker yard.
Gorilla.Steeze
Active member
I doubt that your father will take advice from a bunch of 16 year olds with regards to buying a car.
Gorilla.Steeze
Active member
It's like asking "Help my dad buy a new house!"
No one knows the socio-economic status of your father and what he can or can't afford.
No one knows the socio-economic status of your father and what he can or can't afford.
