Hawx Ultra XTD

[onenerdykid]

which is easier to adjust for different sole standards - STH2 or Warden? Which is more reliable? I have heard good things about STH, but nothing about Warden

They use the same adjustment- toe piece moves vertically. Both are super reliable bindings. Warden has been on the market for 8 years now, IIRC.

Warden has the added advantage of being a true MNC binding. So if you ever get a boot with a full rubber touring sole, then you'll need the sliding AFD that the Warden has. STH has a fixed AFD, so no MNC.

 

[sashko]

thanx for help

 

[xnoresponse]

Planning on grabbing a pair this week, excited. I am 90% sure they will work with my older marker barons (sole ID should allow afd to adjust properly). If not, my shifts will arrive even sooner than I planned

 

[onenerdykid]

Planning on grabbing a pair this week, excited. I am 90% sure they will work with my older marker barons (sole ID should allow afd to adjust properly). If not, my shifts will arrive even sooner than I planned

Now that the sole has moved to GripWalk, it will work totally fine with your Barons.

Enjoy the boots!

 

[Cgare]

So some thoughts after have used the boots (Xtd 120) during 12 days (no touring yet). These boots are seriously so GOOD. Of course every ones feet is different but this is my initial experience. Was looking for 80/20 boot (in best worlds) but with two kids its more 90/10 resort inbounds skiing right now

First a bit about my feet and myself: I have a "normal" to low-volume foot with a low arch and normal instep. a little splash on my left fore foot. I usually have a hard time to find boots with a snug fit, low volume with good heel hold. Around 150lbs and have Rustler 9 as my everyday ski. After 2 kids I wouldnt say I ski as aggressiv as before Ex bootfitter and usually I always have done a lot of work on my other boots to get them to be able to work, but have never achived a perfect fit. Freeride boots not the best precise fit and race like boots offer a snugger fit but without all day comfort

First of all cudos to Atomic for understanding the core values of a performance boot. It should perform on SNOW. The trend of ski boot companys that are so focused to construct boots that are easy to put on which lead to higher insteps and more volume in the shell is not a good trend. Fit is performance and also comfort in both short and long run.. It seems that that many low volume boots today much more is a narrow width then low volume and I rather would like to have a boot that works good on snow skiing instead of when I´m not skiing

I always try to use my boots some days on snow before heating the liner and doing any modifications just to get things right. Out of the box I did feel some preassure point on my left forefoot and some back on the heel flexing forward (both feets). [tag=134699]@onenerdykid[/tag] There is actually a seam inside the back side of XTD 120 liner. That is really something that could be improved.

The first day skiing I felt some numbness on both feets but during the second day skiing they fit totally perfect. Perfect heel hold and super snug fit overall. I think this is the first time I´m actually feel a secure fit in a none race like boot. But a real snug comfort fit.

The boot offers plenty of support, real good suspension with a progressiv flex and good power transfer. If I compare them to all my other boots (with no touring capability) I have been using from Lange, Technica and Full Tilt I dont miss anything talking downhill performance. The fit is so precise which also effects the performance, in a good way. Last year I was using a Full Tilt boot (lots of forward lean) so it took some time to get use to the 15, standard forward lean. Not sure what is actually best and I will give it some more days and then maybe put on the spolier before changing to 17 degree.

Other main difference on snow feel during first runs vs heavier traditional boots is that you could feel a little more transmission whats going on under the skis. Nothing that is bad, but the feeling is different when I head to head compare them to my old +2kg alpine boot. This is something I have experinced testing all boots that are lighter weight so nothing specific for the Ultra XTD. After 2 runs I couldnt tell any difference anymore.

So far the best boot I have ever been using concerning fit and it performs great going downhill.

[tag=134699]@onenerdykid[/tag] if you have any plans in changing the mold let me know and I will buy the one you are using now

 

[WHITEFISHNATE]

What is the difference between the Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 115 W and the Hawk Prime XTD 115 w?

 

[onenerdykid]

What is the difference between the Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 115 W and the Hawk Prime XTD 115 w?

Ultra XTD = 98mm last on size 26/26.5 (low volume, narrow fit)

Prime XTD = 100mm last on size 26/26.5 (medium volume, medium fit)

Ultra XTD has a glued on GripWalk sole, Prime XTD has a screwed on GripWalk sole

Other than that, same features. One boot is for narrow feet, one is medium.

 

[N41v131355]

Ultra XTD = 98mm last on size 26/26.5 (low volume, narrow fit)

Prime XTD = 100mm last on size 26/26.5 (medium volume, medium fit)

Ultra XTD has a glued on GripWalk sole, Prime XTD has a screwed on GripWalk sole

Other than that, same features. One boot is for narrow feet, one is medium.

Hey!

Just a straight-forward question. I'm debating between current year Hawx XTD 130 and next year. I realize Mimic liner is something you worked on for lot of time, but to cut all marketing bs, is it worth waiting for next year model? I have pretty standart feet with no big issues, my previous boot was Tecnica ZGGP, had an awesome fit right out of the box

 

[onenerdykid]

Hey!

Just a straight-forward question. I'm debating between current year Hawx XTD 130 and next year. I realize Mimic liner is something you worked on for lot of time, but to cut all marketing bs, is it worth waiting for next year model? I have pretty standart feet with no big issues, my previous boot was Tecnica ZGGP, had an awesome fit right out of the box

If you like the feel of a more "touring oriented" liner, go with the current year Ultra XTD 130. It will be lighter, tour a bit more efficiently but lacks the same cushioning and foot hold found in the normal alpine Ultra 130.

If you want the same feel as the normal alpine Ultra 130, go with next year's boot. It will be slightly heavier, tour slightly less efficiently, but has the same cushioning and foot hold found in the normal alpine Ultra 130. Plus it has Mimic which just makes it fit way more uniform.

 

[ski4life77]

Could you please advise on the weight of the 20/21 Ultra XTD 130 vs the 19/20.

The new mimic liner sounds great , but if it comes in too heavy, I might want to grab the 19/20 before they're gone.

Thanks.

 

[onenerdykid]

Could you please advise on the weight of the 20/21 Ultra XTD 130 vs the 19/20.

The new mimic liner sounds great , but if it comes in too heavy, I might want to grab the 19/20 before they're gone.

Thanks.

The weight of the new version with Mimic liner is 1530g / 26.5 - real time weight. It's around 120-130g heavier than the 19/20, but still one of the lightest boots in this category.

We will continue to offer the 19/20 liner as an aftermarket solution for anyone looking for a lighter/more touring oriented set up.

 

[FreddoBumps]

Is the 115 women’s a viable option for a man, or is the boot designed to accommodate anatomical differences? If so, can you detail the differences. I’m afraid 120 is a little stiff and the 100 a little soft for my 5’11”, short-legged, 160lb body.

 

[onenerdykid]

Is the 115 women’s a viable option for a man, or is the boot designed to accommodate anatomical differences? If so, can you detail the differences. I’m afraid 120 is a little stiff and the 100 a little soft for my 5’11”, short-legged, 160lb body.

Already sent you a PM, but will put here for science.

All Atomic women's boots use a lower, more tulip-shaped upper cuff with a liner to match. This might work for you, it might not. If it works well, then that's awesome and could very well be a better option for you.

The 120 model uses the exact same lower shell as the 130, but with a softer cuff made from PU rather than Grilamid. That's how we arrive at the 120 flex/feel.

Neither boot will dramatically change it's flex when cold, so both boots will flex/feel when skiing as they will when trying them on in the store. So, if you can flex the 130 or 120 properly in the store, then I wouldn't worry about it or pursue the 115 W option unless that boot just simply fit you better.

 

[aanev]

Just received a pair of blue/black XTD 120s for my wife and I must say that the upper buckles are so nice. Very well thought!

Will they be available as an upgrade/spare part?

**This post was edited on Mar 5th 2020 at 3:39:26am

 

[olic]

Is the 115 women’s a viable option for a man, or is the boot designed to accommodate anatomical differences? If so, can you detail the differences. I’m afraid 120 is a little stiff and the 100 a little soft for my 5’11”, short-legged, 160lb body.

I ride the 115W as I have really small feet and narrow ankles, absolutely fine, the drop in flex to a 115 took me a few laps to get used to but otherwise a totally rad boot. (FYI I'm 5'6", 161lbs and a fairly aggressive skier)

 

[FreddoBumps]

I ride the 115W as I have really small feet and narrow ankles, absolutely fine, the drop in flex to a 115 took me a few laps to get used to but otherwise a totally rad boot. (FYI I'm 5'6", 161lbs and a fairly aggressive skier)

Mind me asking your pants inseam length? Also, I use Zipfit liners. I’m thinking they effectively stiffen the boot.

 

[olic]

around 30 - 31 inches for a pair of jeans, my torso and legs are pretty evenly distributed.

yeah I think Zipfits will stiffen the boot slightly, I'm considering doing the same, weirdly though I find the Hawx XTD harder to get out of than any other boot I've had even those with a stiffer flex rating...

Mind me asking your pants inseam length? Also, I use Zipfit liners. I’m thinking they effectively stiffen the boot.

 

[Abcdethan]

If you like the feel of a more "touring oriented" liner, go with the current year Ultra XTD 130. It will be lighter, tour a bit more efficiently but lacks the same cushioning and foot hold found in the normal alpine Ultra 130.

If you want the same feel as the normal alpine Ultra 130, go with next year's boot. It will be slightly heavier, tour slightly less efficiently, but has the same cushioning and foot hold found in the normal alpine Ultra 130. Plus it has Mimic which just makes it fit way more uniform.

So I have new 20/21 and the 19/20 at home and I'm trying to figure out which one to send back. Taking one out on a big day. This won't really be a 50/50 boot but more of a quiver of one touring boot, for short and long days. I've demoed the 19/20 and it tours fine, feels good out of the box and that is why I'm sticking with the XTD (Backland had too high of an instep). I'm sure the Mimic liner will feel great, but how will it be less efficient for touring, by weight only, or also mobility? Or if I go with the 20/21 boot, how much will the touring liner cost as an aftermarket product?

 

[onenerdykid]

So I have new 20/21 and the 19/20 at home and I'm trying to figure out which one to send back. Taking one out on a big day. This won't really be a 50/50 boot but more of a quiver of one touring boot, for short and long days. I've demoed the 19/20 and it tours fine, feels good out of the box and that is why I'm sticking with the XTD (Backland had too high of an instep). I'm sure the Mimic liner will feel great, but how will it be less efficient for touring, by weight only, or also mobility? Or if I go with the 20/21 boot, how much will the touring liner cost as an aftermarket product?

If this is going to be your dedicated touring boot, then I would keep the 19/20 version. It will be lighter and it will tour better. The 20/21 version will lean more towards the 50/50 resort touring boot category. You can get either liner aftermarket in the future, so it doesn't really matter and this is the only difference between 19/20 and 20/21 versions besides the color.

 

[Abcdethan]

If this is going to be your dedicated touring boot, then I would keep the 19/20 version. It will be lighter and it will tour better. The 20/21 version will lean more towards the 50/50 resort touring boot category. You can get either liner aftermarket in the future, so it doesn't really matter and this is the only difference between 19/20 and 20/21 versions besides the color.

Whelp, I went with the 20/21 version. I figure aftermarket, the touring liner would be cheaper, which I still might get when its available. On the bright side, I took the new one out for a 4.8k and it was comfortable out of the box. Skiing performance was great.

 

[onenerdykid]

Whelp, I went with the 20/21 version. I figure aftermarket, the touring liner would be cheaper, which I still might get when its available. On the bright side, I took the new one out for a 4.8k and it was comfortable out of the box. Skiing performance was great.

Honestly, you couldn't go wrong either way since each liner is available. Super stoked to hear you like the boots!

 

[hemlockjibber8]

Would you consider making more room in the toe box? I love this boot but have struggled with the height over the tips of the toes (cuticle forward). As a boot fitter, I have had to expand the toe box for lots of people this year, more than any other boot.

The main issue being:

- the height of the boot ahead of the rubber toe dam (and under the toe dam)

- the way that the shell tapers in on the sides right at the front. If the shell wall stayed vertical at this point, it would solve many issues

It is a hard place to expand due to the structural integrity of the shape of the shell. Heat molding does little to nothing in this area for anyone with a real issue with the fit.

Otherwise, killer boot.

 

[onenerdykid]

Would you consider making more room in the toe box? I love this boot but have struggled with the height over the tips of the toes (cuticle forward). As a boot fitter, I have had to expand the toe box for lots of people this year, more than any other boot.

The main issue being:

- the height of the boot ahead of the rubber toe dam (and under the toe dam)

- the way that the shell tapers in on the sides right at the front. If the shell wall stayed vertical at this point, it would solve many issues

It is a hard place to expand due to the structural integrity of the shape of the shell. Heat molding does little to nothing in this area for anyone with a real issue with the fit.

Otherwise, killer boot.

Thanks for the feedback, it's noted. We actually get more feedback for the opposite: that there is too much room in the toe dam area of the toe box. I get more feedback that people want it lower here, especially with anyone from a racing background or who is used to race boots. But it just goes to show that one last shape is never going to appease everyone on a global scale.

Do you think that the people you are doing this for are going to be better suited to a Hawx Prime XTD, rather than in an Ultra XTD? Currently, there is only one last shape in the Hawx XTD offer, so if you want a light & powerful boot you are forced to go the Ultra route in terms of fit. I think once the Prime XTD hits the market, you will be doing less toe punches/looking for more volume here. But, I definitely note your feedback.

 

[N41v131355]

[tag=134699]@onenerdykid[/tag]

Was at local shop yesterday and tried on 19/20 XTD130. As you mentioned in the last post, I felt that toe box is big, not extremely big, but bigger than expected. I currently have 1st gen Tecnica ZGGP and toe box is much smaller there, even though these boots have pretty similar width stats (am I right?). Boot actually felt really good out of the box, however there were 2 things that I noticed and wanted to ask you. First - this boot is reaaallly hard to get into, even in the shop. The inner section of lower boot part is very skinny, I'd say. Never felt like that with other boots that I tried. Is this achieving better ankle and heel fit? Other thing - when I buckled the boot, while walking around the shop I almost immidiately felt the line, the edge, where the upper boot part overlaps lower boot part. It was not noticeable while I was pushing the tongue, but when tried leaning back a little or when walking around, that edge was biting into lower shin section. Shop has atomic memoryfit owen, is that something that could be fixed with bootfitting?

 

[onenerdykid]

[tag=134699]@onenerdykid[/tag]

Was at local shop yesterday and tried on 19/20 XTD130. As you mentioned in the last post, I felt that toe box is big, not extremely big, but bigger than expected. I currently have 1st gen Tecnica ZGGP and toe box is much smaller there, even though these boots have pretty similar width stats (am I right?). Boot actually felt really good out of the box, however there were 2 things that I noticed and wanted to ask you. First - this boot is reaaallly hard to get into, even in the shop. The inner section of lower boot part is very skinny, I'd say. Never felt like that with other boots that I tried. Is this achieving better ankle and heel fit? Other thing - when I buckled the boot, while walking around the shop I almost immidiately felt the line, the edge, where the upper boot part overlaps lower boot part. It was not noticeable while I was pushing the tongue, but when tried leaning back a little or when walking around, that edge was biting into lower shin section. Shop has atomic memoryfit owen, is that something that could be fixed with bootfitting?

For getting into any narrow/low volume 130, you can never just pull up on the tongue and step your way in. You need to use one hand to move the tongue to the outside (not inside), grab the opposing lower shell flap with your other hand and open the throat of the boot. Doing this will greatly help.

I bet a liner heat mold with proper footbeds would solve what you are feeling. Only do Memory Fit if you need a lot of work done to the shell.

 

[leatherbag]

Hey @onenerdykid!

I am hesitant about 115 W and 95 W, could you please advise me on your women line?

I am 5'3" and 115 lbs. I tried both boots, 115 W boots seem to be somewhat snugger, feel like a glove and they are super lights, but I am not sure if they are too stiff for me. I am not an aggressive and fast skier. 95 W seem soft enough (too soft?), they are also heavier.

**This post was edited on Mar 27th 2020 at 11:34:17am

 

[onenerdykid]

Hey @onenerdykid!

I am hesitant about 115 W and 95 W, could you please advise me on your women line?

I am 5'3" and 115 lbs. I tried both boots, 115 W boots seem to be somewhat snugger, feel like a glove and they are super lights, but I am not sure if they are too stiff for me. I am not an aggressive and fast skier. 95 W seem soft enough (too soft?), they are also heavier.

**This post was edited on Mar 27th 2020 at 11:34:17am

What boots are you coming from? And how were they for you?

115W is a Grilamid lower shell and a PU upper cuff, and comes with a more touring-oriented liner that has a firmer feel to it. This is the lightest and stiffest boot in the women's XTD range.

95W has a PU lower shell and cuff, and comes with a more resort-oriented liner that basically fits & feels like a normal Hawx Ultra boot.

Flex will be the main deciding factor for you here. I generally tell people that they should ski the stiffest boot that they can still properly flex. This does not mean go for the stiffest option, but go with the stiffest option that allows you to maintain proper body positioning for skiing.

If this leaves you with a liner that you think is the wrong liner for your skiing needs, the other liner would be available should you want it.

 

[leatherbag]

Thanks a lot for a quick reply @onenerdykid!

Currently I have an old pair of atomic hawx 80x. When I flex them, two middle buckles meet each other and it feels like ski react very slowly on my movements.

How are 95 W and 115 W in comparison with my old 80x? Is the liner in 95W warmer than in 115?

What boots are you coming from? And how were they for you?

115W is a Grilamid lower shell and a PU upper cuff, and comes with a more touring-oriented liner that has a firmer feel to it. This is the lightest and stiffest boot in the women's XTD range.

95W has a PU lower shell and cuff, and comes with a more resort-oriented liner that basically fits & feels like a normal Hawx Ultra boot.

Flex will be the main deciding factor for you here. I generally tell people that they should ski the stiffest boot that they can still properly flex. This does not mean go for the stiffest option, but go with the stiffest option that allows you to maintain proper body positioning for skiing.

If this leaves you with a liner that you think is the wrong liner for your skiing needs, the other liner would be available should you want it.

 

[f100prerunner]

Anyone have any comments as far as how the Solomon Xmax compares to the hawk ultra xtd? Thanks

 

[onenerdykid]

Thanks a lot for a quick reply @onenerdykid!

Currently I have an old pair of atomic hawx 80x. When I flex them, two middle buckles meet each other and it feels like ski react very slowly on my movements.

How are 95 W and 115 W in comparison with my old 80x? Is the liner in 95W warmer than in 115?

Your current 80X is a medium last (100mm last on size 26/26.5). The Ultra XTD is a 98mm last on the same size, which is going to be snugger and more stable for your foot shape. I would imagine the 95W will be supportive enough for you, but without being able to see you flex both boots, it's hard to say for sure.

I would say as long as you can flex foward where your knee hits the same plane as the edge of your toes, you will be fine.

Both liners are equally warm and made with materials that are designed to trap heat.

 

[leatherbag]

[tag=134699]@onenerdykid[/tag] thank you very very much! I am almost convniced 95W will be stiff enough for me. I recorded my flexing on a short videos. If you have a minute to have a look I appreciate a lot.

[video]https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/959790/147566B9-9B7E-4D8F-A46F-9D41BCF6148F-MOV[/video]

[video]https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/959791/A41CF670-F004-4B9F-BD24-D1A8E376695E-MOV[/video]

Your current 80X is a medium last (100mm last on size 26/26.5). The Ultra XTD is a 98mm last on the same size, which is going to be snugger and more stable for your foot shape. I would imagine the 95W will be supportive enough for you, but without being able to see you flex both boots, it's hard to say for sure.

I would say as long as you can flex foward where your knee hits the same plane as the edge of your toes, you will be fine.

Both liners are equally warm and made with materials that are designed to trap heat.

 

[onenerdykid]

[tag=134699]@onenerdykid[/tag] thank you very very much! I am almost convniced 95W will be stiff enough for me. I recorded my flexing on a short videos. If you have a minute to have a look I appreciate a lot.

[video]https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/959790/147566B9-9B7E-4D8F-A46F-9D41BCF6148F-MOV[/video]

[video]https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/959791/A41CF670-F004-4B9F-BD24-D1A8E376695E-MOV[/video]

I also think the 95 will be stiff enough for you. Looks good!

 

[leatherbag]

Thank you so much [tag=134699]@onenerdykid[/tag]! I am looking forward to next winter to trying them out!?

I also think the 95 will be stiff enough for you. Looks good!

 

[hemlockjibber8]

Anyone have any comments as far as how the Solomon Xmax compares to the hawk ultra xtd? Thanks

The X max has a lower instep, significantly wider mid and forefoot, more toe room all around. They have similar heel holds. The Hawx might have a slightly tighter ankle side to side. The upper cuff of the Hawx is a narrower cylinder, marginally. That means it is closer to your shin and front of your ankle. Keep in mind, depending on the shape of your foot, these could present themselves in different ways. It's all about how your foot interacts with the boot.

The Hawx is stiffer and doesn't overflex and bulge out in the lower shell nearly as much.

 

[hemlockjibber8]

Thanks for the feedback, it's noted. We actually get more feedback for the opposite: that there is too much room in the toe dam area of the toe box. I get more feedback that people want it lower here, especially with anyone from a racing background or who is used to race boots. But it just goes to show that one last shape is never going to appease everyone on a global scale.

Do you think that the people you are doing this for are going to be better suited to a Hawx Prime XTD, rather than in an Ultra XTD? Currently, there is only one last shape in the Hawx XTD offer, so if you want a light & powerful boot you are forced to go the Ultra route in terms of fit. I think once the Prime XTD hits the market, you will be doing less toe punches/looking for more volume here. But, I definitely note your feedback.

That's interesting that you find it more the opposite way. Just this week I had two people give up on these boots and buy something different for this reason. One usually skis in a Mach 1 lv and the other a vulcan. Not exactly roomy boots. I tried on some 6 years old Lange World Cup ZA and they have more toe room than the Ultra. I think the big thing is that the ultra is super short for it's length combined with the sloped in toe box and visibly low height right at the tip of the toe, its hard to overcome. I should clarify that while the toe dam often is tight, and has caused many people to lose toe nails, it is the volume at the very end of the boot that usually causes people to give up.

What shell fit do most of these people have? I find with the short length, everyone ends up in a small cm shell fit, which is tight for touring boots. But sizing up is never appropriate. As for a MV fit, while it could be an option, these people don't have medium volume feet, and they certainly don't have medium volume toes.

It's funny that people have such different experiences. I'm only bummed because it is such a great boot that, in my mind, doesn't work for many people for the such an unnecessary reason, tight toes in a touring boot.

 

[f100prerunner]

The X max has a lower instep, significantly wider mid and forefoot, more toe room all around. They have similar heel holds. The Hawx might have a slightly tighter ankle side to side. The upper cuff of the Hawx is a narrower cylinder, marginally. That means it is closer to your shin and front of your ankle. Keep in mind, depending on the shape of your foot, these could present themselves in different ways. It's all about how your foot interacts with the boot.

The Hawx is stiffer and doesn't overflex and bulge out in the lower shell nearly as much.

Awesome! Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks

 

[the_armidilo]

I’m looking to add some more space in my hawks ultras specifically around the toe box but the whole boot is sorta tight. I’ve gotten the toe box’s punched out once and got a nice custom footbed. I took out the hard plastic footbed thing that goes beneath the liner the other day and the boot seems to fit much better. Would it be detrimental to ski like this or could I shave that piece down at the toes or just go for another toe punch.

 

[hemlockjibber8]

I’m looking to add some more space in my hawks ultras specifically around the toe box but the whole boot is sorta tight. I’ve gotten the toe box’s punched out once and got a nice custom footbed. I took out the hard plastic footbed thing that goes beneath the liner the other day and the boot seems to fit much better. Would it be detrimental to ski like this or could I shave that piece down at the toes or just go for another toe punch.

That's the boot board. You should put that back in. Granted, if it feels fine, I guess you could ski like that. There are lots of ridges under the bootboard that would feel very uncomfortable. A boot fitter can grind the bootboard down to make more room.

I really recommend grinding down the underside of the footbed as well. Try and reduce the amount of material there. You can also peel off the rubber fabric under the liner to create more room. These steps are much easier and more predictable than punching.

Have your fitter try and punch more room. There are varieties of ways to do this. It is hard to expand the entire toe box because of it's shape. Also, sometimes one punch will take away from the effectiveness of another punch. Be patient and work with your fitter. Don't expect miracles quickly.

 

[onenerdykid]

That's interesting that you find it more the opposite way. Just this week I had two people give up on these boots and buy something different for this reason. One usually skis in a Mach 1 lv and the other a vulcan. Not exactly roomy boots. I tried on some 6 years old Lange World Cup ZA and they have more toe room than the Ultra. I think the big thing is that the ultra is super short for it's length combined with the sloped in toe box and visibly low height right at the tip of the toe, its hard to overcome. I should clarify that while the toe dam often is tight, and has caused many people to lose toe nails, it is the volume at the very end of the boot that usually causes people to give up.

What shell fit do most of these people have? I find with the short length, everyone ends up in a small cm shell fit, which is tight for touring boots. But sizing up is never appropriate. As for a MV fit, while it could be an option, these people don't have medium volume feet, and they certainly don't have medium volume toes.

It's funny that people have such different experiences. I'm only bummed because it is such a great boot that, in my mind, doesn't work for many people for the such an unnecessary reason, tight toes in a touring boot.

I think you will find that your experience has more to do with the liner than with the last of the boot.

For starters, the Ultra and Ultra XTD use the same last dimensions 1:1 - there's no difference in last fit between these two. The last of Ultra is the longest last we've ever made, despite having a 300mm BSL in size 26/26.5. In fact, the Ultra last is longer than our Hawx Magna, which has a BSL of 309mm in the same size. There is no direct relation between BSL and last length. Hawx Ultra will shell fit longer than any other boot we make. If we were to make it longer, then we're starting to drift out of being a 26/26.5.

There's also very little relation between external shape you see and the internal last shape. Most of the time, the external shape is the result of the industrial designer wanting to make the boot look a certain way. If it looks like the toe box falls a certain way from the outside, I can almost guarantee you that it doesn't have the same shape on the inside. This also goes for brands who "fake" the anatomical look of their boots. Quite often a boot looks like it has a lot of navicular space or big toe room from the outside, but this is not reflected in the actual internal last shape. Our internal scans of some big name competitor boots totally show that companies are doing this.

I would definitely imagine that things will improve for you and your customers next year once the liners go Mimic. The boots just fit way more betterer with these liners, especially once they go through the Mimic fitting process.

 

[TheWeaz]

my 25.5 xtd 130s definitely feel shorter than any other 25 I’ve had before, and I’ve now tried 3 different liners in them, they ski great with my alpine liner, but that liner just amplifies the lack of toe room that these boot have, since its thicker than the more touring specific liner.

They’re not nearly as bad as the mtn lab toe box in terms of width, but I feel like the sixth toe area still tapers pretty aggressively and could benefit from being be ever so slightly wider, which is easy to fix with a punch since memory fit didn’t seem to create any space here. Toe hight I haven’t really had a problem with. Mostly just length, especially when totally unbuckled in tour mode your toes get more jammed into the front and they feel smaller than they feel while skiing in them.

 

[N41v131355]

[tag=134699]@onenerdykid[/tag] Could you please tell me if there is a difference between Hawx Prime XTD 130 and 120 in terms of fit? It's just 120 is a bit heavier due to different shell material, right?

**This post was edited on Sep 23rd 2020 at 9:41:44am

 

[Barmski]

[tag=134699]@onenerdykid[/tag] just sent a pm on the Backland carbon about sizing.

For anyone reading this, reached out to @onenerdykid last year about the Hawk Ultra XTD130 and could not be more happy with those boots, he was super helpful, the boot is very ideal especially with the cast system, it is indeed an awesome all around ski boot! I was nervous about the last width being too narrow as I have a very wide foot. Many boot fitters doubted that it could be expanded as wide as I went but it worked and I'm stoked! Bjying the Backland Carbon this year as well.

 

[onenerdykid]

[tag=134699]@onenerdykid[/tag] Could you please tell me if there is a difference between Hawx Prime XTD 130 and 120 in terms of fit? It's just 120 is a bit heavier due to different shell material, right?

**This post was edited on Sep 23rd 2020 at 9:41:44am

The boots share the same mold parameters, so they have the same basic fit (classic Hawx Prime 100mm fit). The 130 boot uses Grilamid in the cuff & the shell, which is what makes it lighter than the 120, which uses True Flex PU in the shell and traditional PU in the cuff.

The 130 uses our new Mimic Platinum liner while the 120 uses our 3D Gold liner. The boots will have a very similar first fit, but the Mimic liner in the 130 is way more customizable and moldable.

 

[onenerdykid]

[tag=134699]@onenerdykid[/tag] just sent a pm on the Backland carbon about sizing.

For anyone reading this, reached out to @onenerdykid last year about the Hawk Ultra XTD130 and could not be more happy with those boots, he was super helpful, the boot is very ideal especially with the cast system, it is indeed an awesome all around ski boot! I was nervous about the last width being too narrow as I have a very wide foot. Many boot fitters doubted that it could be expanded as wide as I went but it worked and I'm stoked! Bjying the Backland Carbon this year as well.

Awesome stuff! Happy to hear you are stoked on it!

 

[abar.]

This is probably a real dumb question, but I just got the 2020 ultra xtd 120s in the mail and I was wondering how you put these back-of-the-cuff thingies on. The ones on my alpine boots just velcro on to the liners, but these look to have some sort of screw on construction, but with no threads. The holes look to line up with the power strap holes but I'm not sure how to attach it, there's no instructions.



Also, on the bottom of the sole it says "100mm narrow last" (the size is 27.5). I thought it was 98, or is that just in the 26.5? Is it the same exact last as the regular hawx ultra 120 in 27.5 (my alpine boot)?

 

[onenerdykid]

This is probably a real dumb question, but I just got the 2020 ultra xtd 120s in the mail and I was wondering how you put these back-of-the-cuff thingies on. The ones on my alpine boots just velcro on to the liners, but these look to have some sort of screw on construction, but with no threads. The holes look to line up with the power strap holes but I'm not sure how to attach it, there's no instructions.

View attachment 974081

Also, on the bottom of the sole it says "100mm narrow last" (the size is 27.5). I thought it was 98, or is that just in the 26.5? Is it the same exact last as the regular hawx ultra 120 in 27.5 (my alpine boot)?

For the 19/20 season, we used the cuff spoiler from our racing department which attaches to the back of the cuff rather than velcroing to the liner. You need to push the claw nuts out of the cuff by loosening the screws then pushing on them to pop the claw nut out. Attach the claw nut to the spoiler and tighten the screws to pull them into the spoiler. In the bag that the spoilers came in are longer screws- use these to attach the power strap to the cuff/spoiler.

The stated last width for any ski boot is based on size 26/26.5 shell. The last width gets wider as you go up in size and gets narrower as you go down in size. This is the same for your Hawx Ultra and applies to all ski boots.

 

[japanada]

with the 130s beings grilamid and the 120s being pu how different is the flex? I know my xt130s are far from a true 130 flex

 

[onenerdykid]

with the 130s beings grilamid and the 120s being pu how different is the flex? I know my xt130s are far from a true 130 flex

First, the type of plastic being used is only one of many factors in how a boot will flex- we use the same type of Grilamid in one of our Backland boots that we use in a Prime XTD and the flexes are wildly different given how we built the boot. Second, there are about 10 different types of Grilamid, so if Lange says they use "Grilamid" it might not be the exact same type that we use. Third, and not to be a dick, but what is a true 130 flex? "130" is a made up number- it doesn't relate to any type of measurement whatsoever (not plastic hardness, not flex range, not flex angle, nothing), and there is no standardization of flex at all amongst any brands. Now, it might not feel like Lange's other 130-flex boots but I would very much hesitate to using the word "true" to describing a flex index.

The Ultra XTD 120 uses the same exact lower shell as the 130 - only the cuff is different. This is how we arrive at a boot that is softer by 10 flex points. The skiing characteristics will not be very different other than this. Damping, shock absorption, progressiveness, etc. are more going to come from the shell in this example and not from the change in cuff material. You will most likely feel differences in snow condition before you feel a change in dampness, shock absorption, progressiveness, etc. due to the change in cuff material.

 

[cydwhit]

Off topic, but whatever...

As I go into another season of having misshapen goblin feet, what are the chances that a Backland Prime comes out next year?

Trying to weigh grabbing a Mimic XTD liner for my current boots, making do for the year and getting Backlands next year, or something else...

 

[abar.]

Just wanted to verify that this is the 15 degree forward lean configuration since I bought my boots from a third party. They feel like they have more forward lean than my non-xtd hawx ultras which are also at 15 degrees. Does the xtd have a lower volume in the calf area, since that might also explain the feeling? Or maybe I'm just overtightening and haven't done my proper stretches