Hawx Ultra XTD

13909962:onenerdykid said:
Pivot Dual WTR bindings should be fine. I haven't personally mounted/tested a pair, but I have heard there aren't any issues.
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13910691:cobra_commander said:
Look Dual Toes work fine.
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Thanks for the confirmation.

Has anyone tested compatibility with the Pivot 18 WTR AFD? Earlier in the thread @onenerdykid said he was skeptical, but unless I missed it, this hasn't been confirmed either way.
 
13911759:whetherman said:
Thanks for the confirmation.

Has anyone tested compatibility with the Pivot 18 WTR AFD? Earlier in the thread @onenerdykid said he was skeptical, but unless I missed it, this hasn't been confirmed either way.
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Been my resort setup WTR AFD Pivot 18s with the XTD 130. Works fine and bench tested normally.
 
Is the 130 noticeably stiffer than the 120? I tried on the 120 and the fit was fantastic but man o man, either I'm too fat or that boot isn't stiff enough for me :(
 
is it possible to buy the gold liner that comes with the 120 seperately? looked through the whole thread but couldn't find if that was possible or not
 
13913682:pacman922 said:
is it possible to buy the gold liner that comes with the 120 seperately? looked through the whole thread but couldn't find if that was possible or not
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In the Fall it will be.
 
i have used my 130xtds as my main boot this winter - flawless operation, zero issues. Recommended.

That being said, i still prefer my alpine boots (fiscer rc4 vacuum) for resort based charging. No, the xtds does not hold me back and are pretty damned awesome, and with a stiffer cuff in liners they are pretty much on par - but where rc4s are just stiff and damp, xtds needs to be cranked to the limit to exhibit the same performance which works fine for where i ski. So the rc4s just feels a bit more solid or substantial - but then again they are. Horses for courses eh.

key take away: if you want a light weight boot that can do it all 130xtds are a solid choice.
 
nerdy quick question

does the walk mechanism on the xtd use a softer metal in the connection to the boot than the backland?.....buddy of mine sheered his off and replaced with a backland piece for a short time....the metal that bent on the hawx seemed softer than the backland
 
First of all I want to thank Nerdy and everyone else in this thread. Reading it has been super helpful in choosing the XTD and also what flex to go for, thanks!

After having the Hawx Ultra 110 for one season and done a little bit of "touring" I wanted to try and upgrade to a boot with walk mode for next season which hopefully will place me in Canada (I live in Sweden). After doing quite some research I ended up on the XTD since I'm happy with my Hawx I already own.

Today I pulled the plunge and bought a pair of Hawx XTD 120, luckily even with a 20% discount for the end of season sale!

When we were going to do the heat molding I asked if there was any reason not to heat up the shell and just heat up the liner, according to the sales rep/bootfitter you don't heat up the shell. From what he said you don't heat up the shell, the only shell you heat up is Fischer Vacuum.

If I would have any hot spots after skiing on them for a few days we could heat that spot up and expand it to my needs.

901078.jpeg

What he did was that he used some kind of heater (the one on the right in the picture above) to heat up the liner which was still placed inside the shell of the boot (so basically he heated everything up to what he said was 60 degrees Celsius). After the liner was warm enough according to him we stuck the boots on and he buckled them up pretty softly.

When the boots were on I was to stand still on a "wooden angle step up-thing" for 10 mins. When the 10 mins was up I took them off and that process was done.

After that we stuck some pads on the outside of the liner tongue since I have quite thin calvs to get a better fit, then I was on my way.

Did the sales rep just have no clue on how to work with Atomic and memory fit or is this one way to do it? Did we do something that now can't be reversed which could have been better?

After looking online to clarify to myself what Memory Fit actually is it seems like we did the exact opposite of what should be done.

When I bought my first pair of Hawx I was totally in the hands of the sales rep, I had no clue about anything when it came to ski boots so just did what I was told.

That time we did custom foot beds, then he heated up the liners in a oven (like the one on the left in the picture above), put them in the ski boots and I jumped in for a few mins then they got an ice pack around them for probably 10 mins or so.

When I look at the videos it seems to be closer to Atmoic and Matts videos but still not the same as they recommend?!

These boots where bought from two different shops in Stockholm. Not the super specialized ski shops but still reputable ski shops which I should be able to trust to know what they're doing when it comes to ski boots.

I've read reviews on both spots which says they're both good spots for bootfitting. Where I went today to buy the XTDs even calls themselfs "Experts on bootfitting" on thier website.

This just became a massive post but I'm just worried I paid for a premium product and I didn't get what "treatment"/help I should have gotten, and even worse my newly bought boots is not up to the normal standard of the boots and can't be reversed.

I'd really appreciate some insight in this whole thing!
 
13915086:Profahoben_212 said:
nerdy quick question

does the walk mechanism on the xtd use a softer metal in the connection to the boot than the backland?.....buddy of mine sheered his off and replaced with a backland piece for a short time....the metal that bent on the hawx seemed softer than the backland
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The base plates are different, with the XTD being much stronger. Buddy shouldn't ski too hard or too long with the Backland base plate in there. Both will bend with enough force applied to them, but the XTD will survive a way heavier load.
 
13915391:shellstrom said:
Did the sales rep just have no clue on how to work with Atomic and memory fit or is this one way to do it? Did we do something that now can't be reversed which could have been better?
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So, your boot-fitter is totally wrong in terms of the shell not being heat moldable. All of the Hawx Ultra, Hawx Ultra XTD, and Hawx Prime and some of the Hawx Magna ski boots use 100% heat moldable plastic. They go into the oven for 5 minutes, you stand in them for 2, and then put cold packs on them for 5 more (while still standing in them). That is what we call Memory Fit and we use it in as many ski boots as possible. Do you have to do it? No. But it is an option that should be known about and available should you need it.

Now, what he did is the correct procedure for heat molding a liner. It sounds like he did a great job there and if the boots fit and feel good, that's all that matters. I personally don't care if a shell is heat molded or not and just the liner is- the end goal is to make your feet happy in a ski boot. If he achieved that with just a heat mold, then awesome. But if you have fit issues down the road and need some adjustments, the shells are super easy to work on. He can use Memory Fit or traditional stretching depending on what is needed.
 
Might try to head somewhere this summer so anyone have any ideas on what intuition set up would replicate the gold (120 flex) liner? Maybe an Intuition pro tour with the power tongue?
 
Can anyone who used the boots this past winter speak to the warmth of the boot with the original liner? Read two reviews from mec.com and they gave me some concern. Here are the excerpts.

1. The lower shell plastic is the least durable I've seen. Multiple deep cuts and gashes have me wondering how many more weeks the shell will hold up. Finally, there is no gasket along the overlap on the lower shell, just a bead of silicone. Hardly a tour goes by where I don't feel water/snow seeping in. They're cold too.

2. Walk mode is super easy to use and my feet are comfortable, if not a bit cold while touring or even just walking around the resort.
 
13916005:onenerdykid said:
The base plates are different, with the XTD being much stronger. Buddy shouldn't ski too hard or too long with the Backland base plate in there. Both will bend with enough force applied to them, but the XTD will survive a way heavier load.
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Where would one go about buying an xtd plate in the US? Going through a shop the only ordering option?
 
13916994:esgam said:
Can anyone who used the boots this past winter speak to the warmth of the boot with the original liner? Read two reviews from mec.com and they gave me some concern. Here are the excerpts.

1. The lower shell plastic is the least durable I've seen. Multiple deep cuts and gashes have me wondering how many more weeks the shell will hold up. Finally, there is no gasket along the overlap on the lower shell, just a bead of silicone. Hardly a tour goes by where I don't feel water/snow seeping in. They're cold too.

2. Walk mode is super easy to use and my feet are comfortable, if not a bit cold while touring or even just walking around the resort.
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Never been cold using mine. The guy feeling cold in them just walking around the resort probably has some blood circulation issues to begin with.
 
13916008:onenerdykid said:
So, your boot-fitter is totally wrong in terms of the shell not being heat moldable. All of the Hawx Ultra, Hawx Ultra XTD, and Hawx Prime and some of the Hawx Magna ski boots use 100% heat moldable plastic. They go into the oven for 5 minutes, you stand in them for 2, and then put cold packs on them for 5 more (while still standing in them). That is what we call Memory Fit and we use it in as many ski boots as possible. Do you have to do it? No. But it is an option that should be known about and available should you need it.

Now, what he did is the correct procedure for heat molding a liner. It sounds like he did a great job there and if the boots fit and feel good, that's all that matters. I personally don't care if a shell is heat molded or not and just the liner is- the end goal is to make your feet happy in a ski boot. If he achieved that with just a heat mold, then awesome. But if you have fit issues down the road and need some adjustments, the shells are super easy to work on. He can use Memory Fit or traditional stretching depending on what is needed.
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Thanks Nerdy, the boots feels good for the short amount of time that I've had them on for. Unfortunately I won't be able to ski with them until next season, hence why I'm a little bit extra cautious when I felt like the sales rep didn't really know what he was talking about.

Hopefully these boots will be a great companion for next season which will be spent in Revvy or Kicking Horse! :)
 
13917077:shellstrom said:
Thanks Nerdy, the boots feels good for the short amount of time that I've had them on for. Unfortunately I won't be able to ski with them until next season, hence why I'm a little bit extra cautious when I felt like the sales rep didn't really know what he was talking about.

Hopefully these boots will be a great companion for next season which will be spent in Revvy or Kicking Horse! :)
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I'll mold your boots at my shop if you end up coming to Kicking Horse ;)
 
13916996:Profahoben_212 said:
Where would one go about buying an xtd plate in the US? Going through a shop the only ordering option?
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Currently yes, you have to go to a shop and have them order the part(s) for you.
 
Matt-

Grooving on the fit of My XTD's. Fit my flexible cavus bony feet well without too much work. I'm looking for a replacement for my Dynafit TLT5s. Can you compare Backland fit to the XTDfit?

Would much rather try one on, but not available anywhere near me. I'd at least like to hear your feed back before ordering one.

Thanks again for all you contribute on boots!
 
Any rough guidelines regarding skier weight and flex on these? I’m 5’1”, 160-165lb and not sure if 100 or 120 is the better starting place. Thanks.
 
13959011:FreddoBumps said:
Any rough guidelines regarding skier weight and flex on these? I’m 5’1”, 160-165lb and not sure if 100 or 120 is the better starting place. Thanks.
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These boots aren't soft for their listed flex, they're rather "true". Given your stats, my first reaction is to go 100 but it also depends on what you had previously too. What boots are you coming from?
 
100 at 165lb? I’m surprised to hear that. Was that a call on weight or height? Would you say most people are in a boot that is too stiff?
13959126:onenerdykid said:
These boots aren't soft for their listed flex, they're rather "true". Given your stats, my first reaction is to go 100 but it also depends on what you had previously too. What boots are you coming from?
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13959237:hemlockjibber8 said:
100 at 165lb? I’m surprised to hear that. Was that a call on weight or height? Would you say most people are in a boot that is too stiff?
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Well, he's not a big guy... and it's just a guess without seeing how/if he can flex a boot and it would be good to know what he was previously coming out of. If he said a world cup race boot, then I wouldn't hesitate to put him in the 120.
 
Haha, supposed to be 5’11” gentlemen...sorry about the typo.

I’m coming out of a Dalbello Krypton.

**This post was edited on Nov 9th 2018 at 6:01:45pm
 
13959328:FreddoBumps said:
Haha, supposed to be 5’11” gentlemen...sorry about the typo.

I’m coming out of a Dalbello Krypton.

**This post was edited on Nov 9th 2018 at 6:01:45pm
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Ok, that makes a bit more sense ;)

If it's in your budget, go with the 120 then.
 
Why are these often classified as a narrow fit boot? I went into a shop, bootfitter took one look at the width of my foot on the measuring device and basically said I would likely only fit The Scott Cosmos III or Dalbello Lupo. But both had such horrible forward range of motion.

I decided to try the Maestrale RS which had a big hotspot on the outside of my foot, Hojis (also felt too narrow even with a 103 stated last, but also in the ankle bone (?) area), La Sportivas Spectre, Salomon MTN lab etc. and really none of them felt good. Out of curiosity I put on the Atomic Backland and it didn't feel too bad apart from the ankle area due where the carbon fibre piece and pivot was (meaning impossible to punch). BUT, the Hawx Ultra XTD 130s actually felt good - without any moulding - and surprisingly wide. I'm a size 28 and I think I'm going to go with these and punch out later if needed, but I'm just so confused as to why they felt wide to me, and not to any online reviewers...Is it just an odd foot shape? Has anyone had a similar experience? Coming from a Scarpa Freedom SL in size 29 which gave me extreme pain due largely width (but I never had them punched - just sold instead).
 
13962251:skimak said:
Why are these often classified as a narrow fit boot? I went into a shop, bootfitter took one look at the width of my foot on the measuring device and basically said I would likely only fit The Scott Cosmos III or Dalbello Lupo. But both had such horrible forward range of motion.

I decided to try the Maestrale RS which had a big hotspot on the outside of my foot, Hojis (also felt too narrow even with a 103 stated last, but also in the ankle bone (?) area), La Sportivas Spectre, Salomon MTN lab etc. and really none of them felt good. Out of curiosity I put on the Atomic Backland and it didn't feel too bad apart from the ankle area due where the carbon fibre piece and pivot was (meaning impossible to punch). BUT, the Hawx Ultra XTD 130s actually felt good - without any moulding - and surprisingly wide. I'm a size 28 and I think I'm going to go with these and punch out later if needed, but I'm just so confused as to why they felt wide to me, and not to any online reviewers...Is it just an odd foot shape? Has anyone had a similar experience? Coming from a Scarpa Freedom SL in size 29 which gave me extreme pain due largely width (but I never had them punched - just sold instead).
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Compared to the Hawx >

Lupo: Wider ankle, narrower mid and forefoot, higher instep and greater distance from heel to front of ankle.

Freedom: Way wider ankle, higher instep, greater distance from heel to front of ankle, narrower toe box

Mtn Lab: similar to Freedom

Backland: Only looked at them once but would say it's a lower volume Hawx on average and with more acentuated curves and a very thin liner.

Surefoot actually measures every aspect of a boot shell. If there is one near you, go in and ask to see their chart of dimensions. Remember, a liner will throw your judgement off.

The Hawx isn't a low volume boot. It is low volume compared to a lot of touring boots. It also really fits a classic V shaped foot. Smaller anke, wide forefoot. I am 108mm wide at the metatarsals (forefoot) and I would probably not punch the Hawx.
 
13962251:skimak said:
Why are these often classified as a narrow fit boot? I went into a shop, bootfitter took one look at the width of my foot on the measuring device and basically said I would likely only fit The Scott Cosmos III or Dalbello Lupo. But both had such horrible forward range of motion.

I decided to try the Maestrale RS which had a big hotspot on the outside of my foot, Hojis (also felt too narrow even with a 103 stated last, but also in the ankle bone (?) area), La Sportivas Spectre, Salomon MTN lab etc. and really none of them felt good. Out of curiosity I put on the Atomic Backland and it didn't feel too bad apart from the ankle area due where the carbon fibre piece and pivot was (meaning impossible to punch). BUT, the Hawx Ultra XTD 130s actually felt good - without any moulding - and surprisingly wide. I'm a size 28 and I think I'm going to go with these and punch out later if needed, but I'm just so confused as to why they felt wide to me, and not to any online reviewers...Is it just an odd foot shape? Has anyone had a similar experience? Coming from a Scarpa Freedom SL in size 29 which gave me extreme pain due largely width (but I never had them punched - just sold instead).
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The last on the 28.5 is 102. That might have something to do with it.
 
13962251:skimak said:
Why are these often classified as a narrow fit boot?
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13962263:Gnar_Shralp406 said:
The last on the 28.5 is 102. That might have something to do with it.
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Most likely this. The Hawx Ultra & Ultra XTD use the same 98mm last, whichi s 98mm wide only on size 26/26.5. In your size of 28/28.5, the last is 102mm.

But it is a narrow last. The overall fit you're feeling is due to the liner, which can account for the boot feeling a bit wider or at least more accommodating to your footshape.
 
I believe it also has to do with the abduction built into the Ultras that provides more room to the lateral side.

Last week when trying boots on, the Tecnica Mach 1120MV was tighter on the lateral side of my foot than the Hawx Ultra 120. Part of it is just how the boot lines up with your forefoot. Nordica ProMachine 120 felt similar to Hawx. The Mach 1 is definitely wider, but the width is located towards the medial side.

ONK would love to hear your thoughts on this.
 
Skimak I think that's why the best thing people can do is just go into ski shops and try the boots on! Your story hammers that home. For those who can't do that - well that sux but feet are so individual it's just super hard to offer anything more than just generic advice. But I'm surprised that the Hoji didn't fit you -thats a wide high volume boot
 
@onenerdykid are the XTD 120 and/or XTD 130 powerful enough to drive GS race skis? For this purpose would choice of liners make a significant difference?
 
13963076:maxwerks said:
@onenerdykid are the XTD 120 and/or XTD 130 powerful enough to drive GS race skis? For this purpose would choice of liners make a significant difference?
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Why on gods green earth are you attempting to drive a gs ski on touring boots?
 
Well consider the scenario where I travel by air and can bring two pairs of ski's but not two pairs of boots. The one is a 50/50 setup with a Shift binding and the other a GS with mnc alpine binding. Bringing an extra pair of liners would be fine.
 
13963076:maxwerks said:
@onenerdykid are the XTD 120 and/or XTD 130 powerful enough to drive GS race skis? For this purpose would choice of liners make a significant difference?
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Real FIS-regulation GS skis? No/maybe. Commercial 130 race boots can barely power those skis, so I'd be skeptical of any non-World Cup boot being up for the job. Another problem you will run into here is that no race binding (DIN 16+) can accept a WTR or touring sole. They are 5355 only.

Commercial GS skis (like the Redster G9)? Either boot is definitely powerful enough to ski a commercial race ski, that's for sure not a problem. The problem you will again run into is the boot/binding compatibility. These skis rarely come with an MNC or WTR compatible binding....
 
13963252:onenerdykid said:
Real FIS-regulation GS skis? No/maybe. Commercial 130 race boots can barely power those skis, so I'd be skeptical of any non-World Cup boot being up for the job. Another problem you will run into here is that no race binding (DIN 16+) can accept a WTR or touring sole. They are 5355 only.

Commercial GS skis (like the Redster G9)? Either boot is definitely powerful enough to ski a commercial race ski, that's for sure not a problem. The problem you will again run into is the boot/binding compatibility. These skis rarely come with an MNC or WTR compatible binding....
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Between the XTD 120 and 130 the Blistergear review mentions that the 120 is more suited for inbounds due to its liner. Since I am really looking for the stiffest possible hybrid boot, I wonder what''s the effect of an alpine liner in the XTD 130? Would expect that to offer superior downhill performance to the 120? Or is the race grade PU cuff of the 120 simply a better construction for the downhill?
 
13963277:maxwerks said:
Between the XTD 120 and 130 the Blistergear review mentions that the 120 is more suited for inbounds due to its liner. Since I am really looking for the stiffest possible hybrid boot, I wonder what''s the effect of an alpine liner in the XTD 130? Would expect that to offer superior downhill performance to the 120? Or is the race grade PU cuff of the 120 simply a better construction for the downhill?
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The 130 and the 120 use the exact same lower shell (130 flex Grilamid), just in different colors. The 120 uses a race-grade PU cuff, but it is in a softer flex (hence the 120).

If you put the liner from the 120 into the 130, it would be a stiffer, more responsive boot than the 120. The 120 liner is available as a spare part, so it is totally possible to do this. And, again, you can also put a Sidas, Boot Doc, ZipFit liner into the 130 as well.
 
13963286:onenerdykid said:
The 130 and the 120 use the exact same lower shell (130 flex Grilamid), just in different colors. The 120 uses a race-grade PU cuff, but it is in a softer flex (hence the 120).

If you put the liner from the 120 into the 130, it would be a stiffer, more responsive boot than the 120. The 120 liner is available as a spare part, so it is totally possible to do this. And, again, you can also put a Sidas, Boot Doc, ZipFit liner into the 130 as well.
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How much would a 120 liner be in Canadian, roughly?
 
13963287:hemlockjibber8 said:
How much would a 120 liner be in Canadian, roughly?
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I unfortunately don't know what Canada is selling them for. My guess would be in the vicinity of 150-200$ You local shop can make a call to customer service and find out though.
 
13963286:onenerdykid said:
The 130 and the 120 use the exact same lower shell (130 flex Grilamid), just in different colors. The 120 uses a race-grade PU cuff, but it is in a softer flex (hence the 120).

If you put the liner from the 120 into the 130, it would be a stiffer, more responsive boot than the 120. The 120 liner is available as a spare part, so it is totally possible to do this. And, again, you can also put a Sidas, Boot Doc, ZipFit liner into the 130 as well.
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Super helpfull, thx!!
 
my 130's are on the way!

Is there any reason not to heat mold them? I like a really precise fit, so am thinking I might just wear them and punch traditionally if necessary?
 
13963286:onenerdykid said:
The 130 and the 120 use the exact same lower shell (130 33flex Grilamid), just in different colors. The 120 uses a race-grade PU cuff, but it is in a softer flex (hence the 120).

If you put the liner from the 120 into the 130, it would be a stiffer, more responsive boot than the 120. The 120 liner is available as a spare part, so it is totally possible to do this. And, again, you can also put a Sidas, Boot Doc, ZipFit liner into the 130 as well.
Click to expand...

@onenerdykid any tips on where to find an XTD 130 in size 24.5? They seem unavailable in Europe. The only pair I located are at the Vail Ski Shop in Tokyo, at an eye watering cost :(
 
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