.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13784565:onenerdykid said:
Do you guys have to remind athletes not to post social media pics of unreleased gear?
Hawx Ultra XTD
- Thread starter onenerdykid
- Start date
Do you guys have to remind athletes not to post social media pics of unreleased gear?
onenerdykid
Active member
13784668:.MASSHOLE. said:
Most are really good about it and when they get gear we tell them when they can start posting about stuff. But sometimes things sneak by, happens.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13784774:onenerdykid said:
Figured as much.
Did you see a lot of athletes switch over from the Redster Pro to the Hawk when it was released?
and completely off-topic, but since when have the Redster WC models had Memory Fit?! I'm trying to find some new inbounds boots for coaching but nothing can drive a SL ski like a race boot (so my old Cochise Pro Lights have shown) yet going back to a raceboot sounded miserable. But the fact that they now are heat moldable is awesome. Do the WC athletes use it or are they still using the old grinding and punching method?
onenerdykid
Active member
13784855:.MASSHOLE. said:
Yes, almost everyone who was on Redster Pro is now on Ultra, except Jossi. He just likes wearing race boots.
Redster WC/FIS have been Memory Fit compatible (meaning they will go into an oven just fine) but most people still do traditional grinding and stretching on this boot since it is so thick and burly. If you have a really narrow foot, you can probably just Memory Fit it, but if you have a medium or wider foot, then you'll probably have to resort to the old methods.
![.[sanhedrin].](/data/avatars/m/44/44552.jpg?1745610448){kind=avatar}
.[sanhedrin].
Active member
Great video of @onenerdykid dishing the goods at ispo ::
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1294068613964998&id=132728146765723&_rdr
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1294068613964998&id=132728146765723&_rdr
13783494:cobra_commander said:
Going from memory - only the Scarpa Freedom SL which is about - 5 or -10. ZeroG Guide Pro is vertical. Haven't tried others in that class. Rearward ROM is nice for flat walking like flat glacier approaches but IMO when you combine lots of forward ROM with decent ROM then you've got a boot that will be good enough for 90% of users
onenerdykid
Active member
13785696:.[sanhedrin said:
Karin is hilarious, one of the raddest girls ever haha
Great video Onenerdykid, the boot is looking great, especially in combination with the new colors on the Backland (is this unchanged for next year?) I don`t know if you have any restrictions about talking specific in the video, but I was waiting for some demonstrations with the boot and some nerdy facts 
If you are doing some more videoes I would focus on what makes it better than the competitors(Maestreale rs2, 1400g, 60 deg ROM, mostly rear,). For instance, the XTD has alot better ROM and usable ROM than our competitors, they add ROM in the rear but not in the front where you want it for kick turns and steep inclines. [...] Our memory tech alows you to create extra room for your feet so you can keep teh lower buckles closed when touring without loosing blood cirkulation. blablabla
Stuff like this is important to create hype for us couch generals that have not the possibility to try on the boot yet.
If you are doing some more videoes I would focus on what makes it better than the competitors(Maestreale rs2, 1400g, 60 deg ROM, mostly rear,). For instance, the XTD has alot better ROM and usable ROM than our competitors, they add ROM in the rear but not in the front where you want it for kick turns and steep inclines. [...] Our memory tech alows you to create extra room for your feet so you can keep teh lower buckles closed when touring without loosing blood cirkulation. blablabla
Stuff like this is important to create hype for us couch generals that have not the possibility to try on the boot yet.
.[sanhedrin].
Active member
13785849:onenerdykid said:
"How many years to invent this?"
30+ years. Hahaha
I have a year of experience on the Backland Carbon and am super impressed with the level of innovation.
The performance of these boots is incredible, and even more so when you consider their light weight!
I am also very happy with how workable the shells are for my really weird feet. That is a huge benefit. These boots keep my heels locked-in very well and have plenty of toe room.
I can't wait to try the Hawx Ultra XTD as it sounds like just the boot I need for free-ride with tour-ability! I think this boot will appeal to a significant market segment.
Keep up the good work Atomic!
-Eric
The performance of these boots is incredible, and even more so when you consider their light weight!
I am also very happy with how workable the shells are for my really weird feet. That is a huge benefit. These boots keep my heels locked-in very well and have plenty of toe room.
I can't wait to try the Hawx Ultra XTD as it sounds like just the boot I need for free-ride with tour-ability! I think this boot will appeal to a significant market segment.
Keep up the good work Atomic!
-Eric
onenerdykid
Active member
13786042:n3vrast said:Great video Onenerdykid, the boot is looking great, especially in combination with the new colors on the Backland (is this unchanged for next year?) I don`t know if you have any restrictions about talking specific in the video, but I was waiting for some demonstrations with the boot and some nerdy facts
If you are doing some more videoes I would focus on what makes it better than the competitors(Maestreale rs2, 1400g, 60 deg ROM, mostly rear,). For instance, the XTD has alot better ROM and usable ROM than our competitors, they add ROM in the rear but not in the front where you want it for kick turns and steep inclines. [...] Our memory tech alows you to create extra room for your feet so you can keep teh lower buckles closed when touring without loosing blood cirkulation. blablabla
Stuff like this is important to create hype for us couch generals that have not the possibility to try on the boot yet.
Backland gets updates in the liner (more heel hold and a thicker tongue for better skiing performance) and water sealing that is magnetic rather than the velcro that it has now.
We kept the video rather top level and easy to understand, rather than going super deep into the crazy details. I would rather talk about the crazy details here with you guys who I know are the super engaged skiers. Plus, while I know we are better than a lot of competitors, I really don't want to publicly call out other brands. I'd rather just put all the facts out on the table and let reviewers and bloggers do direct comparisons.
13786088:rentschl said:
Thanks dude! Glad you are stoked on them!
.[sanhedrin].
Active member
TGR covered the boot from SIA::
http://www.tetongravity.com/video/g...ring-binding-revolutionary-new-boot-for-17-18
http://www.tetongravity.com/video/g...ring-binding-revolutionary-new-boot-for-17-18
.[sanhedrin].
Active member
Action clip of Benchetler getting the most out of the boots::
https://www.instagram.com/p/BQZUjKzgMSc/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BQZUjKzgMSc/
onenerdykid
Active member
13787281:.[sanhedrin said:
The only choice for belly flops.
13787320:powchaser said:
Yes, and any other binding that accepts WTR or touring norm (ISO 9523) boot soles.
Hawx Ultra XTD is not compatible with bindings that only accept the alpine norm (ISO 5355) or Grip Walk specific bindings.
cobra_commander
Active member
13787345:onenerdykid said:
Someone needs to lock the binding dorks from Amer and Marker in a room until they come out with a single WTR/Grip Walk sole norm, or make the two cross compatible. This petty WTR comparable but not GW compatible nonsense is bullshit.
Literature
Active member
13783494:cobra_commander said:
ROM is more essential as approaches get longer and skin tracks get flatter. It's also nice to have more of a real stride, rather than something that gets restricted by the boot, but that's a personal preference kind of thing.
onenerdykid
Active member
13787432:cobra_commander said:
I totally agree and you can thank Marker for that. WTR has been on the market for what, 5 years now? And they come up with a different sole shape & binding interface that excludes our shape. Awesome.
13787523:.lencon said:
From the Attack family, I'm pretty sure only the Attack 14 AT has the ability to work with ISO 9523... but I could be wrong.
scratchskier321
Active member
13784565:onenerdykid said:
Is Hawx ultra unchanged for next year? And what is the red boot jossi is using right now?
onenerdykid
Active member
13788479:scratchskier321 said:
Most Ultras are carry-over (no change at all) but we introduced 2nd color options on the 120 model (white with red accents) and on the 90W model (black with purple accents).
Jossi is skiing in the new Redster Club Sport 130- our new 96mm race boot. He just loves the fit and feel of a race boot and doesn't want anything else.
scratchskier321
Active member
13788485:onenerdykid said:
redster CS.. does it flex any different than redster pro? I always felt redster pro was kinda harsh.
I haven't ski hawx ultra, but when I had a redster (red with carbon back) I could feel the base of the boot flex with the cuff. It kinda sucked. Can you relate/i hope the hawx ultra doesn't do that?
onenerdykid
Active member
13788911:scratchskier321 said:
The first generation of Redster (with the Carbon Spine) was designed to flex under foot in the way you described. At the time, a few athletes, like Daron Rahlves, were removing material from the sole to get the boot to bend in a certain way. The new Redster CS does not flex like the old version. It has a sole very similar to our older race boot called Race Tech. It is a very burly boot.
Hawx Ultra is also not designed to bend underfoot like first gen Redster (or first gen Hawx for that matter). Hawx Ultra is simply a lightweight, powerful boot without any of the sole bending tech that our older boots had.
ChelsLego540
Member
I'm so excited about this boot, as my boot fitter said this it the boot made for me! 
What's the weight on the 110W?
What is the instep like? High, low, medium?
When will they be in stores?
Thanks!
What's the weight on the 110W?
What is the instep like? High, low, medium?
When will they be in stores?
Thanks!
cobra_commander
Active member
Is Shiffrin still skiing the RTs?
onenerdykid
Active member
13789050:ChelsLego540 said:I'm so excited about this boot, as my boot fitter said this it the boot made for me!
What's the weight on the 110W?
What is the instep like? High, low, medium?
When will they be in stores?
Thanks!
Sweet! The 110W is basically the same build as the men's 130, but with a lower cuff, lower liner, and narrower power strap, so it will be slightly lighter size for size. Instep height is medium-low- same as a normal Hawx Ultra. They land in stores late Summer/Fall 2017.
13789086:cobra_commander said:
She's in the new boot- you can tell from the tip sealing (toe dam) and sole profile.. But it still has the cosmetic from "current" Redster.
cobra_commander
Active member
Good to hear. After a lot of initial excitement in being able to easily mess with sole flex, I could never make my redsters ski the way I wanted. Glad the new one has a more solid sole flex.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
Less of a boot question but are next years race skis uncapped or capped sidewalls?
scratchskier321
Active member
13788938:onenerdykid said:
Thank you. If last went to 96 on club sport... did the heel pocket lose volume as well? did heel-toe length get shorter? Only reason I ask is because I'm always stuck between 25/26... and I really like the smallest 26's I can find.
onenerdykid
Active member
13789216:wilcox510 said:
Yep- same last, slightly different liner but if you like the fit of the Hawx Ultra 130, you will like the XTD 130.
13789465:.MASSHOLE. said:
New race skis (G9, S9, X9) are all full sidewall, vertical laminate, 2 layers of titanal, sandwich construction
13789529:scratchskier321 said:
Heel is relatively similar but the instep height is lower, which forces the heel back into the heel pocket. Last length is basically the same, slightly more space off the big toe but not enough to alter what size you take. In general, it's a lower volume and snugger fit but with space in key areas.
A couple more questions - any idea what a size 25 will weigh? I'd guess thats just like 50g or so lighter than the 26? With the memory fit, I assume you can heat mold them to make them bigger, but cant really do anything to make them tighter in spots, right? I tried on the current Hawx 130 and it was a bit loose in the ankle and achilles for me.
cobra_commander
Active member
Anyone know where the video of the Hahnnenkamm run on the XTD is? Went to show a friend and couldn't find it.
onenerdykid
Active member
13789542:wilcox510 said:
Shell, cuff, and liner material is about an 8% jump/drop in weight but not an overall 8% jump (buckles, hardware, mechanism, etc. don't change per size).
When you say current "Hawx" are you referring to the Ultra 130 or the Prime 130? Ultra is narrow, Prime is medium. If your heel is loose in the Ultra, you have some insanely narrow heels
1445g actual in sz 27.5 (bsl 314mm) - was quoted at 1420g in PR for sz 26.5 so it's pretty close to being accurate. 10mm +/- for every size up down. 99m last in the 27.5 size. Sized 27.5 Backland and same for with Hawk Extended. I'm 27.5 Dynafit Khion/Vulcan./Beast/TLT5 and 6/Titan/ZZeus. Also 27.5 for all Scarpas. Sz 26 in Tecnica and Salomon.
Liner is 292g. ProTours are 220g so that's 72g weight right there if necessary
Just to be complete - shell without liner is 1147g. Forefoot buckle is removeable and I will weight that in a bit and leave this as a placeholder.
So boot with ProTour liner in sz 27.5 and Powerstraps would be 1373g
Boot with ProTour without forefoot buckle and Powerstraps = ???
Gratuitous gear shot. I'll try them with the Backland 109 and the Backland bindings
Generic Azn foot. No arch. Big tumour on met. Splayed out forefoot. 110mm to work with for a 99m last.
Atomic memoryfit for the Hawk Extended is via the "alpine style". Theoretical expansion of 5mm in the boot and approx 5mm in the liner which is pretty close. Pre-fit I felt pressure at both sides of the forefoot
Post fitting I felt fine in forefoot. A bit too much space at forefoot and instep which I will try to alleviate by using volume spacers which are included with the boot or perhaps insoles (which add weight of course)
Generic Azn foot. No arch. Big tumour on met. Splayed out forefoot. 110mm to work with for a 99m last.
Atomic memoryfit for the Hawk Extended is via the "alpine style". Theoretical expansion of 5mm in the boot and approx 5mm in the liner which is pretty close. Pre-fit I felt pressure at both sides of the forefoot
Post fitting I felt fine in forefoot. A bit too much space at forefoot and instep which I will try to alleviate by using volume spacers which are included with the boot or perhaps insoles (which add weight of course)
onenerdykid
Active member
13790703:LeeLau said:
Just like HRZN Tech being said as "Horizon Tech", we write XTD and say "Extended" due to naming rights and other fun lawyer stuff.
Here in Austria, it was always referred to as "Extended" during its early states of development because it was the easiest way to describe what we were doing to the Hawx boot- extending its range of use and versatility.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13790844:onenerdykid said:
One thing I've been curious about between Atomic, Salomon with their Quest series, Tecnica, and all over overlap-AT boots is why not, as mentioned above, remove the front toe buckle and add some sort of material to prevent snow from getting in near the toe? Is there some inherent design with the boot that prevents this? Or is there some other reason?
Generally curious about this kind of thing.
onenerdykid
Active member
13790889:.MASSHOLE. said:
You mean like our Waymaker boot?
There is a very strong bias towards 4-buckle boots from both perceived performance and actual performance standpoints. From the perceived side of things, many people look to race boots- if race uses 4-buckles, then so should I. This is incredibly real in Europe, but less so in North America.
From an actual performance standpoint, 4-buckles does hold the shell together better and it allows for better fine tuning of the lower shell fit. Part of what allows our light weight shell to ski as well as it does is having 2 shell buckles holding the shell together. As soon as you remove the toe buckle, the overlap will be more free to move and twist as you ski. This will lead to a noticeable reduction in power transfer and potentially wetter feet.
In terms of fine tuning the fit, this is why you are seeing almost all Salomon athletes adding buckles to their MTN Labs.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13790895:onenerdykid said:You mean like our Waymaker boot?
There is a very strong bias towards 4-buckle boots from both perceived performance and actual performance standpoints. From the perceived side of things, many people look to race boots- if race uses 4-buckles, then so should I. This is incredibly real in Europe, but less so in North America.
From an actual performance standpoint, 4-buckles does hold the shell together better and it allows for better fine tuning of the lower shell fit. Part of what allows our light weight shell to ski as well as it does is having 2 shell buckles holding the shell together. As soon as you remove the toe buckle, the overlap will be more free to move and twist as you ski. This will lead to a noticeable reduction in power transfer and potentially wetter feet.
In terms of fine tuning the fit, this is why you are seeing almost all Salomon athletes adding buckles to their MTN Labs.
I knew I was forgetting one. Yes, just like that.
OK, so there is a performance benefit to having that toe buckle, interesting. Makes sense on why adding any sort of toe cover material wouldn't be plausible without some weight gain.
@onenerdykid
I've got heels that are fairly narrow . Heel hold in unmodded Lange Freetour XT Low Volume/ Tecnica Zero G, Dynafit TLT6 is not sufficient, even with custom footbeds.
Can the Thermofit of the Hawx Ultra 130 Touring boot also include narrowing the space in the heel and ankle joint areas?
I'd be in a size 28 by measurement, but in all the above booots had to go down to a 27,5 in order to have some semblance of heel hold.
Would I size down the Atomic as well?
Thanks!
I've got heels that are fairly narrow . Heel hold in unmodded Lange Freetour XT Low Volume/ Tecnica Zero G, Dynafit TLT6 is not sufficient, even with custom footbeds.
Can the Thermofit of the Hawx Ultra 130 Touring boot also include narrowing the space in the heel and ankle joint areas?
I'd be in a size 28 by measurement, but in all the above booots had to go down to a 27,5 in order to have some semblance of heel hold.
Would I size down the Atomic as well?
Thanks!
onenerdykid
Active member
13791312:culoduro said:
If you can, try on a normal Hawx Ultra 130 and judge the fit and size based on that. The serial production liners we are making will fit as close to that as possible. But yes, the liners in the 130 are constructed of 100% firm, heat moldable foam. You can ski them out of the box or bake them in a Memory Fit oven.
Took the Hawk Ultra Extended out for a long tour and skied ego boosting blower pow lines. Not a great test for downhill as Backland Ultimates could have done just as fine in snow of such acceptable quality.
Memoryfit is killer. Stuck my own Intuitions in one foot and Atomic liner in other and no issues at all. Thanks Steve Kerr for that!
Touring is remarkable with a good deal of range of motion via both liners. Tried touring with all buckles slacked off and powerstrap loosened and that is the best for relatively friction free walking. ROM is reduced when buckles and powerstrap were in ski mode then loosened (ie not slacked all the way). This means transitions are additionally complicated by needing the extra process of slackening buckles all the way for the added ROM of touring performance for the ups.
Will investigate this aspect more and play with buckles
Memoryfit is killer. Stuck my own Intuitions in one foot and Atomic liner in other and no issues at all. Thanks Steve Kerr for that!
Touring is remarkable with a good deal of range of motion via both liners. Tried touring with all buckles slacked off and powerstrap loosened and that is the best for relatively friction free walking. ROM is reduced when buckles and powerstrap were in ski mode then loosened (ie not slacked all the way). This means transitions are additionally complicated by needing the extra process of slackening buckles all the way for the added ROM of touring performance for the ups.
Will investigate this aspect more and play with buckles
.[sanhedrin].
Active member
Video of @onenerdykid explaining the machine they created to test the flex rating of a boot. I would thoroughly enjoy seeing a whitepaper on the results of the new XTD compared to all the other boots you tested with their actual names. I don't see this necessarily as something in poor taste as the cycling industry does it all the time with aero claims and watt saving figures. They call each other out all the time.
I think having a uniform test for flex ratings would be really helpful. None of this "sure it's a 130!" BS!
I think having a uniform test for flex ratings would be really helpful. None of this "sure it's a 130!" BS!
.[sanhedrin].
Active member
Forgot to paste the link::
onenerdykid
Active member
13791811:.[sanhedrin said:
You guys know what I'm like on here, I'm just too polite I guess haha. But I guarantee you the other 2 boots on that graph are the 2 most common competitors people will be comparing our boot to. I'll leave it up to a 3rd party do the same tests and release the names.
Here's Lou's full article on our flex testing robot:
https://www.wildsnow.com/22006/atomic-boot-flex-testing-machine/
That boot flex testing machine is insanely cool!
Some more pics. With the Hawk Ultra Extended you get laces for the liner, spoiler (in case the 17 deg forward lean is not enough) and a thin volumizer to take up some space
Two forefoot buckles are removeable with torx
Walk mode is beefy and asopted from the Backland. Out of box this is at 15 deg forward lean. Flip the chip behind the walk mode to adjust to 17 deg forward lean
Some more pics. With the Hawk Ultra Extended you get laces for the liner, spoiler (in case the 17 deg forward lean is not enough) and a thin volumizer to take up some space
Two forefoot buckles are removeable with torx
Walk mode is beefy and asopted from the Backland. Out of box this is at 15 deg forward lean. Flip the chip behind the walk mode to adjust to 17 deg forward lean
One more try to see if this works
With the Hawk Ultra Extended you get laces for the liner, spoiler (in case the 17 deg forward lean is not enough) and a thin volumizer to take up some space
Two forefoot buckles are removeable with torx
Walk mode is beefy and asopted from the Backland. Out of box this is at 15 deg forward lean. Flip the chip behind the walk mode to adjust to 17 deg forward lean
With the Hawk Ultra Extended you get laces for the liner, spoiler (in case the 17 deg forward lean is not enough) and a thin volumizer to take up some space
Two forefoot buckles are removeable with torx
Walk mode is beefy and asopted from the Backland. Out of box this is at 15 deg forward lean. Flip the chip behind the walk mode to adjust to 17 deg forward lean