Hawx Ultra XTD

[n3vrast]

Im jumping in on this, I just bought the 130s (good offer, the store had only 130s) but I realized after trying on the 120s in another store that I much more prefer that liner. Its a much snugger fit and the stiff tounge is just what Ive been jabbering on about.

So my question is, will the platinum liner expand when I mold it? Or should I get the 120-liner?

Also, the stores here in Norway will only sell the platinum liner, Nerdy, do you know where I could get a hold of the 120 XTD gold liner (26.5)?

**This post was edited on Nov 19th 2017 at 12:27:27pm

 

[hemlockjibber8]

I'm actually having a really hard time deciding between the two. I'm hoping Nerdy can jump in and say if others are finding much difference in "skiability" between the 120 and 130 USING THE MORE DH FOCUSED 120 LINER. Again in the shop to me the 130 may feel a bit too 'rigid' whereas the 120 has a nicer flex to it (but how much due to the PU and will it actually be that much softer when skiing).

Nerdy, would you automatically recommend to me as a 190lbs, athletic, advanced skier (50/50 resort/long tour days) to go:

a) 130 and buy an additional 120 liner or equivalent for resort days...or

b) 120 and buy an Intuition tour liner for bc days

Biggest ski I'm driving will be Billygoats w/ Kingpins but wondering too how they might stack up against something like a Wrenegade9Cochise resort setup.

I'm having the same thoughts. Is the PU cuff of the 120 going to be even more soft on warm spring days? There is a bit of chatter about lower boot deformation on over flexing, is a warm PU cuff going to make that significantly worse? Is the PU actually more progressive or is it just softer? I'm 150lbs, skiing a 186 Billygoat as well and like a bit of flex but hate it more when a boot collapses.

 

[robnow]

I'm having the same thoughts. Is the PU cuff of the 120 going to be even more soft on warm spring days? There is a bit of chatter about lower boot deformation on over flexing, is a warm PU cuff going to make that significantly worse? Is the PU actually more progressive or is it just softer? I'm 150lbs, skiing a 186 Billygoat as well and like a bit of flex but hate it more when a boot collapses.

I guess I'm looking for a little more 'damping' so to speak but afraid the 120 may be too soft, too much deformation. Anyway, going to the shop...again, to try both on.

 

[LeeLau]

All in good time, promise.

I'll probably create a thread for it, as it will be a big thing.

jajaja - patience guys

 

[pDails]

Thanks for the super detailed write up and feedback! Mucho appreciado. Let me address some of your points, not to counter them but just to shed light on why we did what did (and how we can improve things moving forward).

Re: the liner - For serial production (read: what you guys can buy in the fall), the 130 liner is getting beefed up in the heel & ankle area, slightly snugger in the fore foot, and a thicker/denser tongue. This will bring the fit as close as possible to normal Ultra 130 and provide a better feel in the boot while skiing. Better damping, better ski feel, overall more betterer. Additionally, the 120 will get a liner that has a build more similar to normal Ultra (plastic cuff, plastic tongue, etc) but with an Achilles flex zone. It won't tour as well, but it will feel more like an alpine boot.

Re: progressive flex/stiffness - This is an interesting topic to dive into. On paper/robot measured, we are very progressive with a slightly stiffer feel "off the top" compared to boots in this category (and against full PU alpine boots). But very progressive, not linear. For me personally (which mirrors our robot flex data), I find the Zero G to be super linear, super soft, and hard to control. So if testers like the way the Zero G feels, this will feel very different, almost harsh in comparison. And vice versa for those who don't like the Zero G. On one hand, there is a way to measure objectively how a boot flexes but then there is an equally real yet very subjective feel to each boot. I don't think one is truly more right or more wrong, but just good to be aware of. Additionally, I think a lot of people will like the 120 model, which uses a cuff made from world cup grade PU. This boot will be heavier (due to the liner as well) and feel more "alpiney" than the 130. If you can get on a pair of these, I'd love to hear your feedback.

(FYI - For those of you who want to see it, there should be an image in this thread that shows our flex test data)

Re: WTR sole - This is one part of the equation that allows us to ski as powerfully as we do. When we were testing sole configurations, a full-rubber sole was definitely on the table. But, in an alpine clamp style binding (STH 2, Warden, Jester, etc) rubber soles compress and deflect while skiing, resulting in a tangible loss in energy transmission to the ski. What WTR provides us with is a fully hard connection to the binding, just like an alpine boot. This ensures that the energy generated from 130 shell material makes its way to the ski and isn't lost in the rubber sole. Obviously, this doesn't matter in a pin binding, but for freeride-alpine bindings, this does make a tangible difference in how well the boot skis.

Re: 13° forward lean option - This is something we can for sure look into with a different flip chip. I'll get back to you on this.

You mention the flex curves, two questions:

How does the flex curve shape (non-linear) of the 130 XTD compare to the flex curve of the hawx prime 130 and the hawx ultra 130?

Is there ever a future where these flex curves are shared/published as boot "specs"?

 

[pDails]

The plastic we use in the 130 is a special type of Grilamid that has a stiffening factor of 2 (compared to normal PU that has a stiffening factor of 5!) so it very stable in both cold and warm temps.

The PUs we use in the cuffs of the 120 & 100 have a stiffening factor of 1.2, which is the best you can get. That's also the same PU we use in the normal Ultra series of boots. We call this type of PU "True Flex PU".

Can you provide the stiffening factor for the prime 120 and 130?

 

[onenerdykid]

You mention the flex curves, two questions:

How does the flex curve shape (non-linear) of the 130 XTD compare to the flex curve of the hawx prime 130 and the hawx ultra 130?

Is there ever a future where these flex curves are shared/published as boot "specs"?

The flex curve of the XTD 130 and normal Ultra 130 are super close. There's an image of our flex test that shows the actual curve of both boots.

Perhaps, but I doubt it. As much as I would like to see it, it would most likely confuse 99% of people buying ski boots.

Can you provide the stiffening factor for the prime 120 and 130?

Those boots use "normal" world cup-grade PU, so the stiffening factor of 5, which is the same for any Lange, Tecnica, or Nordica etc.

That might be changing in the future

 

[dreminem]

Hey Nerdy.

I bought a pair of Hawx Ultra XTDs 120s this summer/fall through Atomics website after some extensive reading and measuring. I also tried the 130 flex boot when my last workplace, a ski shop in Saalbach, Austria, got in an early pair in the end of last season. They fit my foot perfectly, and I'm so glad I got them.

But, after trying them on a couple of times I noticed that the left boot's liner was hurting my left foots tarsal bone. I took out the liner and inspected it thoroughly, and found that the plastic cuff on the liner was deformed in the spot that fits over my tarsal bone. It is sort of crumbled in a way that the plastic cuff almost cuts into my tarsal bone when I tighten up the boot. I have not been skiing in the boots yet, since we don't have too much snow here in southern Sweden right now. I have tried them on maybe 6 times in total, so I can not possibly have created this deformation in the liner.

I've tried to snap some pictures of the deformation, but since it's under the stretchy material right above the foot it's quite hard to capture.

Worth noting is that the right boot's liner is perfect and feels great.

How would you suggest me to proceed with this problem? Should I contact the official Atomic dealer closest to me? Or should I contact Atomic directly?

Thanks in advance.

 

[onenerdykid]

Hey Nerdy.

I bought a pair of Hawx Ultra XTDs 120s this summer/fall through Atomics website after some extensive reading and measuring. I also tried the 130 flex boot when my last workplace, a ski shop in Saalbach, Austria, got in an early pair in the end of last season. They fit my foot perfectly, and I'm so glad I got them.

But, after trying them on a couple of times I noticed that the left boot's liner was hurting my left foots tarsal bone. I took out the liner and inspected it thoroughly, and found that the plastic cuff on the liner was deformed in the spot that fits over my tarsal bone. It is sort of crumbled in a way that the plastic cuff almost cuts into my tarsal bone when I tighten up the boot. I have not been skiing in the boots yet, since we don't have too much snow here in southern Sweden right now. I have tried them on maybe 6 times in total, so I can not possibly have created this deformation in the liner.

I've tried to snap some pictures of the deformation, but since it's under the stretchy material right above the foot it's quite hard to capture.

Worth noting is that the right boot's liner is perfect and feels great.

How would you suggest me to proceed with this problem? Should I contact the official Atomic dealer closest to me? Or should I contact Atomic directly?

Thanks in advance.

Hey man, sounds like something funky happened when the assembly team was installing the liner...

I would take them to your local Atomic dealer. They can try to fix it (which may be possible) or get you a replacement liner if it comes to that.

Let me know how it goes / if you hit any snags along the way.

 

[cjtrapp]

I skied the regular Ultra 130s last year with the 2nd stiffness screw removed and added the 120 XTDs this year for combined resort and touring. I just finished my first 3 days (in bounds) and they seemed to have considerably more forward lean than the regular Ultras -- am I imagining things? I felt like I was fighting the rear cuff the whole time trying to get into my normal stance. Maybe it's a fitting thing? Any advice before I go back to the shop and reheat them?

 

[hemlockjibber8]

I skied the regular Ultra 130s last year with the 2nd stiffness screw removed and added the 120 XTDs this year for combined resort and touring. I just finished my first 3 days (in bounds) and they seemed to have considerably more forward lean than the regular Ultras -- am I imagining things? I felt like I was fighting the rear cuff the whole time trying to get into my normal stance. Maybe it's a fitting thing? Any advice before I go back to the shop and reheat them?

Not sure if they intentionally are different but you can change the forward lean by flipping the chip where the wall mode mounts.

 

[Alexcbrown]

Hey nerdy wonder if you can help me with this. Have just bought a pair of the 120’s but am seriously struggling to get into and out of the boots (because of my high arches), do you think after I’ve memory fit them I’ll have more space in the instep and will find them easier to get on? Desperately hoping I can get them to work

 

[dreminem]

Hey nerdy wonder if you can help me with this. Have just bought a pair of the 120’s but am seriously struggling to get into and out of the boots (because of my high arches), do you think after I’ve memory fit them I’ll have more space in the instep and will find them easier to get on? Desperately hoping I can get them to work

I've found the Hawx Ultras, both XTD and the normal one, very hard to get into. Compared to any other boots I've tried, and especially my Tecnica Mach 1 130s, they just seem to be very stiff and tight around the instep. Even for me who have a normal arch and instep. I have not memory fitted yet, so I can't answer that question tho. I've found that taking a proper hold of the plastic around the instep and kind of bending up slightly helps the most to get in.

 

[mtbakerpow]

What’s the BSL of the 26.5,27 and 27.5?

 

[profa_212]

Coming back with my talk on memory fit.

Honestly very impressed. I didnt think it was going to work as well as it did, especially over the instep where my issue was.

Heated her up and slipped her on with a small pad over my issue area on my instep, and within seconds after the boot was thrown on i could feel the pressure relieve off the instep. The molding also improved the heel pocket hold, and helped out with my rather boney malleolus. Very impressed with how easy it was, and it couldn't have taken more than 25 minutes to finish the mold.

If anybody is curious how much instep i punched up with the mold, I can take a photo of my foot for reference i suppose.

 

[.lencon]

Coming back with my talk on memory fit.

Honestly very impressed. I didnt think it was going to work as well as it did, especially over the instep where my issue was.

Heated her up and slipped her on with a small pad over my issue area on my instep, and within seconds after the boot was thrown on i could feel the pressure relieve off the instep. The molding also improved the heel pocket hold, and helped out with my rather boney malleolus. Very impressed with how easy it was, and it couldn't have taken more than 25 minutes to finish the mold.

If anybody is curious how much instep i punched up with the mold, I can take a photo of my foot for reference i suppose.

No one wants to see ya nasty ass foot you little cum sock

 

[profa_212]

No one wants to see ya nasty ass foot you little cum sock

foot fetish ass mofucker

 

[Alexcbrown]

Coming back with my talk on memory fit.

Honestly very impressed. I didnt think it was going to work as well as it did, especially over the instep where my issue was.

Heated her up and slipped her on with a small pad over my issue area on my instep, and within seconds after the boot was thrown on i could feel the pressure relieve off the instep. The molding also improved the heel pocket hold, and helped out with my rather boney malleolus. Very impressed with how easy it was, and it couldn't have taken more than 25 minutes to finish the mold.

If anybody is curious how much instep i punched up with the mold, I can take a photo of my foot for reference i suppose.

That’s good to hear, did you happen to notice any improvement with ease of getting the boot on? This is where the low instep is really causing trouble for me.

 

[Alexcbrown]

Coming back with my talk on memory fit.

Honestly very impressed. I didnt think it was going to work as well as it did, especially over the instep where my issue was.

Heated her up and slipped her on with a small pad over my issue area on my instep, and within seconds after the boot was thrown on i could feel the pressure relieve off the instep. The molding also improved the heel pocket hold, and helped out with my rather boney malleolus. Very impressed with how easy it was, and it couldn't have taken more than 25 minutes to finish the mold.

If anybody is curious how much instep i punched up with the mold, I can take a photo of my foot for reference i suppose.

That’s good to hear, did you happen to notice any improvement with ease of getting the boot on? This is where the low instep is really causing trouble for me.

 

[kid-kapow]

That’s good to hear, did you happen to notice any improvement with ease of getting the boot on? This is where the low instep is really causing trouble for me.

i must say that getting the boots on/off are a helluva lot easier with these than the beast carbons that i replaced them with. If you just yank the liner up between the two lower halves, hold the halves apart as you use the other foot to help get the boot off, i find the boot to slide off pretty easily and a lot less painfully than the beast carbons. Heck, i even think the 130xtd feels like more boot than the beast carbons as well - in spite of the somewhat flimsy cuff of the liner - and walks pretty well as well. I think i will get a hold of some burlier liners for resort use, but so far so good after one day of use in the quest for one boot to rule em all. If the 130s work this well i am really curious to find out how well they would ski with a more supportive/progressive liner.

I think i will have to bring my pair back to my boot fitters and get some more work done as my left instep (pinch), left ball of the foot (pinch) and right heel hold are still not perfect, but given that we just did a quick heat her up prior to my going riding the next day with zero customization pads i am kinda blown away at how good are fitting and riding already. I am duly impressed. I will post more feedback as i get more days on em - em being 130xtds.

 

[onenerdykid]

What’s the BSL of the 26.5,27 and 27.5?

26/26.5 = 302mm

27/27.5 = 312mm

 

[profa_212]

That’s good to hear, did you happen to notice any improvement with ease of getting the boot on? This is where the low instep is really causing trouble for me.

nada, but I don't really think that it is the biggest issue. Part of what goes with the tight fit they offer.

Got my first day on snow with them today! Fucking awesome. Way more powerful of a boot than I was expecting with the stock liner. Pretty much all of my skiing today was in powder, so I cant really speak on how they would charge through chunder, but from their overall stiffness I would say they would do pretty dang good for a touring boot. Touring was exceptional. Made the uphill far more fun and left me with way more strength for the way down. I am going to replace the laces for the liner...the ones that come with are rather bunk. Developed a small blister on my heel about 6 miles in, partially because i couldnt get a tight fit on the liner with the laces...but im attributing this more to the first tour of the season than anything.

I would probably replace the liner with something else if you are doing inbounds skiing on them, but this is a backcountry boot only for me, so I am going to keep the stock liner for now. Eventually when it starts getting worn i will probably replace it with a pro tour.

Really.....reaally stoked on this boot. Cant wait to get more days on them.

 

[mtbakerpow]

26/26.5 = 302mm

27/27.5 = 312mm

What about the standard Hawx ultra 130 27.5 bsl for this year

 

[alextheknife]

What about the standard Hawx ultra 130 27.5 bsl for this year

310mm

 

[.lencon]

nada, but I don't really think that it is the biggest issue. Part of what goes with the tight fit they offer.

Got my first day on snow with them today! Fucking awesome. Way more powerful of a boot than I was expecting with the stock liner. Pretty much all of my skiing today was in powder, so I cant really speak on how they would charge through chunder, but from their overall stiffness I would say they would do pretty dang good for a touring boot. Touring was exceptional. Made the uphill far more fun and left me with way more strength for the way down. I am going to replace the laces for the liner...the ones that come with are rather bunk. Developed a small blister on my heel about 6 miles in, partially because i couldnt get a tight fit on the liner with the laces...but im attributing this more to the first tour of the season than anything.

I would probably replace the liner with something else if you are doing inbounds skiing on them, but this is a backcountry boot only for me, so I am going to keep the stock liner for now. Eventually when it starts getting worn i will probably replace it with a pro tour.

Really.....reaally stoked on this boot. Cant wait to get more days on them.

What are you using for resort days?

 

[profa_212]

What are you using for resort days?

My Nordica GPX 130. Feels like a more substantial boot....which makes complete sense. World cup booster straps, intuition pro tongue and at like 1000 grams heavier they are definitely going to feel more substantial.

 

[.lencon]

My Nordica GPX 130. Feels like a more substantial boot....which makes complete sense. World cup booster straps, intuition pro tongue and at like 1000 grams heavier they are definitely going to feel more substantial.

100%. I just thought you sold all your other boots. I wouldn't mind picking up another boot from Roxa or even FT in the future that's chargey.

 

[profa_212]

100%. I just thought you sold all your other boots. I wouldn't mind picking up another boot from Roxa or even FT in the future that's chargey.

Limping the gpx's through another season here...will probably replace them next season with the hawx ultra. Loved the fit on them/they are a damn nice boot from the time I've spent in them.

 

[mtbakerpow]

26/26.5 = 302mm

27/27.5 = 312mm

What can you tell me about the 2013 atomic burner 130?

 

[onenerdykid]

What can you tell me about the 2013 atomic burner 130?

26/26.5 should be a 305mm

This boot was essentially a Race Tech CS 130 with replaceable alpine DIN soles. Thick, burly, and world cup geometry.

 

[mtbakerpow]

26/26.5 should be a 305mm

This boot was essentially a Race Tech CS 130 with replaceable alpine DIN soles. Thick, burly, and world cup geometry.

Cool I think I’m gonna grab a pair for resort skiing,hoping to try on the xtd still for size. I had the 26.5 mtn lab last year and wished I had a tad more room in the toe

 

[skiernor_]

Just bought the Hawx XTD in size 25.5. However, I am afraid they are a bit too small.

My feet measure 255mm, 93mm wide, with straight big toes (touching the shells on the side).

Haven't done the memory fit process yet, as I am not sure how much extra space it will give me lengthwise/big toe area. Any recommendations? Should I size up or will the memory fit process do magic for my big toes?

 

[kid-kapow]

i would think that going through the memory fit process together with correct sequence of buckling the boots (i know i often sin against this) should be sufficient to get the boot to work fine - that is, a ,05mm surplus in length should not warrant going up a size imo.

i just ordered some intuition pro tongues for my xtd130s to add some beef for resort riding. I was a bit torn whether i should get the powerwraps or the pro tongues, but i figured the latter would tour better even if they are a bit heavier. I also got some pro tours for some my dedicated walking boots - procline carbons - to add some warmth based on LeeLaus review of the boots, but i guess i will give the pro tours a try in the xtds as well.

In retrospect i guess going with the xtd120s and getting a pair of pro tours that i could have used in both the xtds and the proclines would have made more sense, but oh well - too late now.

I am really curious to try the xtds with the pro tongues back to back with my resort boots, fischer rc4 130. Right now there is a vast difference in how they feel - quite understandable given the huge difference in liner. I am expecting that to change with the beefier liner in the xtd though. If so, the rc4s might not see much use going forward as i really, really like the way the xtds feel. The xtds are so much much nicer than the beast carbons that used to use that it is not even a competition in my book. Well done!

 

[skiernor_]

i would think that going through the memory fit process together with correct sequence of buckling the boots (i know i often sin against this) should be sufficient to get the boot to work fine - that is, a ,05mm surplus in length should not warrant going up a size imo.

[...]

I am really curious to try the xtds with the pro tongues back to back with my resort boots, fischer rc4 130. Right now there is a vast difference in how they feel - quite understandable given the huge difference in liner. I am expecting that to change with the beefier liner in the xtd though. If so, the rc4s might not see much use going forward as i really, really like the way the xtds feel. The xtds are so much much nicer than the beast carbons that used to use that it is not even a competition in my book. Well done!

Thanks! I'll do some more carpet testing, and try to get a hold of the larger size for some comparison. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts from skiing with the Pro Tongue. As I will probably use the XTD for both touring and resorts, I am also considering buying a stiffer liner. Do you feel the Pro Tonge takes up a lot additional space compared to the XTD-liner? Maybe I'll size up on the shell, and have some more space for touring, and stiffer liner for resort-based skiing.

 

[kid-kapow]

i have yet to receive the liners - they are still on their way from my preferred dealer aka the importer over here that is based on the east coast with me being on the west coast. I will def chime in after i get some time with the pro tongues in the xtd130s and try to answer your questions as best i can. Again, although i defer to the boot designer, i would think that sizing up for you should be unnecessary

**This post was edited on Dec 6th 2017 at 4:03:04pm

 

[Skipatrol001]

Yea would be super curious to see how you find the new liners. I have about 30 days on my pair of 130xtd all inbounds and I'm thinking about getting another liner for them. I need to take up some shell room as I have scrawny shins and am almost maxing out the top buckle. This is causing some weird issues with over lap that probably wouldnt be any problem if you have normal sized legs. I was deciding between the pro tour , and the pro wrap. Leaning to the pro wrap just because the added padding in the cuff off the liner. Definitely not worried about weight as these boots are incredibly light to begin with. I am sure I will lose some range of motion for touring but that should be fine. From the sounds of it medium volume liner is all that I can probably fit in boots so I should probably stick with one of those.

 

[onenerdykid]

Just bought the Hawx XTD in size 25.5. However, I am afraid they are a bit too small.

My feet measure 255mm, 93mm wide, with straight big toes (touching the shells on the side).

Haven't done the memory fit process yet, as I am not sure how much extra space it will give me lengthwise/big toe area. Any recommendations? Should I size up or will the memory fit process do magic for my big toes?

What boots did you have previously and what were they? If you're not used to wearing a boot in the right size, it will feel slightly too short when it is brand new and not molded.

Also, are you wearing it with custom footbeds? If not, the average foot elongates by at least half a size when it is unsupported. By supporting your foot with a custom footbed, it will hold it up properly and keep it locked in the back of the heel pocket.

If you have footbeds and they have been molded, you can always get the toe punched out a little bit and gain a few mm that way.

 

[kid-kapow]

so i just received the liners, and my oh my, the 25 pro tongue liner and a 25.5 shell was not a great fit. The pro tongue liner is just too bulky pre-heat treatment with the buckles barely going on the two top buckles and the lower shell deforming quite a bit (so i might have been talking out of my ass wrt not sizing up a size shell wise if you want to use some pro tongues). The pro tour liner in 26 fit quite well pre-heating and also provided noticeably better support than the stock 130 liner does as well as add a bit of girth to the shins .

Having never owned/used an intuition liner before I do not know how much they compact after being heated and molded. For all i know the pro tongues will still compact enough during the heating and molding, but i am thinking that the amount of compaction that is needed for them to be a great fit is just too large. I will give the Intuition guys a call tomorrow to get their take, but i am thinking that perhaps the best way forward is to go with the pro tours and be happy with the increase in support and comfort that they provide and keep the stock liners for all out touring duties.

Aka, just get the damned 120s if you want a beefier boot as it is cheaper and yields a similar outcome

**This post was edited on Dec 7th 2017 at 2:16:54pm

 

[skiernor_]

What boots did you have previously and what were they? If you're not used to wearing a boot in the right size, it will feel slightly too short when it is brand new and not molded.

Also, are you wearing it with custom footbeds? If not, the average foot elongates by at least half a size when it is unsupported. By supporting your foot with a custom footbed, it will hold it up properly and keep it locked in the back of the heel pocket.

If you have footbeds and they have been molded, you can always get the toe punched out a little bit and gain a few mm that way.

Currently I ski the Tecnica Bodacious 25.5 (surefoot liner and footbed) and Maestrala RS 26.0 (superfeet footbed).

My Bodacious have a really tight fit, and my big toes are in pain from day two. They have been punched a couple of times at Surefoot, but I didn't really notice any difference. My Maestrales works well for touring, but I really don't like the overall feeling when skiing. A bit too roomy.

I did some more carpet testing of the Hawx XTDs, and the overall feeling is really good.

I tried with both the Superfeet and Surefoot footbeds. As you mentioned, it probably gave me some extra room.

(The arch gets pretty painful, but I understand the memory fit process should take care of that).

If I were to use these boots for skiing only, I would definitely keep the 25.5. I also tried them with my Surefoot liners, and I actually think it is something I can work with on days with zero touring.

In touring mode, my big toes hurts and it feels like I need more space. However, if you say the memory process will give a few extra mm and the rest can be punched, I will keep these. I'm assuming I should do this with footbeds in place and pad my big toes like crazy?

Again, amazing boot. Good job!

 

[onenerdykid]

Currently I ski the Tecnica Bodacious 25.5 (surefoot liner and footbed) and Maestrala RS 26.0 (superfeet footbed).

My Bodacious have a really tight fit, and my big toes are in pain from day two. They have been punched a couple of times at Surefoot, but I didn't really notice any difference. My Maestrales works well for touring, but I really don't like the overall feeling when skiing. A bit too roomy.

I did some more carpet testing of the Hawx XTDs, and the overall feeling is really good.

I tried with both the Superfeet and Surefoot footbeds. As you mentioned, it probably gave me some extra room.

(The arch gets pretty painful, but I understand the memory fit process should take care of that).

If I were to use these boots for skiing only, I would definitely keep the 25.5. I also tried them with my Surefoot liners, and I actually think it is something I can work with on days with zero touring.

In touring mode, my big toes hurts and it feels like I need more space. However, if you say the memory process will give a few extra mm and the rest can be punched, I will keep these. I'm assuming I should do this with footbeds in place and pad my big toes like crazy?

Again, amazing boot. Good job!

Thanks man!

If you are running a 1cm shell fit, it will be super high performance for skiing and probably uncomfortable for skinning/touring. A 1.5-2cm shell fit would be (generally) a really good fit for skiing & touring

Just kind of depends on how much down vs. up you plan on doing.

 

[BC_Bandito]

Hey OneNerdyKid,

I was able to snag a pair of 120s through my semi-local shop (live in a remote location), last ones Atomic could find, stoked. When i was back east i tried on some Ultra 120s since they don't have XTDs in the flatlands and the 27/27.5 was the best fit based on feel and the boot-fitters opinion. The 28s seemed too roomy, so i ordered the XTD 27s. My 27.0 XTDs have not been heat molded yet since i'm seeing whether they will be the best fit for me and might have to return if not.

So far in ski mode with a bit of flex they feel awesome. When i pop into walk mode and stand straight up, my right big toe (longer foot) is pushing pretty hard against the front of the boot, especially when walking around the house. In other words, similar problems to the posts above. For reference i've been skiing a 27.5 salomon energyzer and 28.0 Dynafit mercury (314 mm) for my on and off hill setups.

Could you elaborate on the "1 cm shell fit" and exactly how you measure it?

With a barefoot and the liner removed, my toes gently touching the front of the shell I used a pencil to mark straight down from the back of my heel. I pulled out the removable shim and measured 7 mm to the back edge of the shim. Where am I stacking up for a fit that's snug for downhill but also won't be causing pain while touring? Is that distance reasonable to assume will be taken up with a combo of superfeet footbeds, heat molding and toe punching? or do i need to size up to the 28 shell and live with the roomy, looser fit?

Does toe punching affect the release performance in a frame (Tracker 16) binding?

With no local shops etc this is my only way to sort things out, cheers

 

[BC_Bandito]

Hey OneNerdyKid,

I was able to snag a pair of 120s through my semi-local shop (live in a remote location), last ones Atomic could find, stoked. When i was back east i tried on some Ultra 120s since they don't have XTDs in the flatlands and the 27/27.5 was the best fit based on feel and the boot-fitters opinion. The 28s seemed too roomy, so i ordered the XTD 27s. My 27.0 XTDs have not been heat molded yet since i'm seeing whether they will be the best fit for me and might have to return if not.

So far in ski mode with a bit of flex they feel awesome. When i pop into walk mode and stand straight up, my right big toe (longer foot) is pushing pretty hard against the front of the boot, especially when walking around the house. In other words, similar problems to the posts above. For reference i've been skiing a 27.5 salomon energyzer and 28.0 Dynafit mercury (314 mm) for my on and off hill setups.

Could you elaborate on the "1 cm shell fit" and exactly how you measure it?

With a barefoot and the liner removed, my toes gently touching the front of the shell I used a pencil to mark straight down from the back of my heel. I pulled out the removable shim and measured 7 mm to the back edge of the shim. Where am I stacking up for a fit that's snug for downhill but also won't be causing pain while touring? Is that distance reasonable to assume will be taken up with a combo of superfeet footbeds, heat molding and toe punching? or do i need to size up to the 28 shell and live with the roomy, looser fit?

Does toe punching affect the release performance in a frame (Tracker 16) binding?

With no local shops etc this is my only way to sort things out, cheers

 

[LeeLau]

Currently I ski the Tecnica Bodacious 25.5 (surefoot liner and footbed) and Maestrala RS 26.0 (superfeet footbed).

My Bodacious have a really tight fit, and my big toes are in pain from day two. They have been punched a couple of times at Surefoot, but I didn't really notice any difference. My Maestrales works well for touring, but I really don't like the overall feeling when skiing. A bit too roomy.

I did some more carpet testing of the Hawx XTDs, and the overall feeling is really good.

I tried with both the Superfeet and Surefoot footbeds. As you mentioned, it probably gave me some extra room.

(The arch gets pretty painful, but I understand the memory fit process should take care of that).

If I were to use these boots for skiing only, I would definitely keep the 25.5. I also tried them with my Surefoot liners, and I actually think it is something I can work with on days with zero touring.

In touring mode, my big toes hurts and it feels like I need more space. However, if you say the memory process will give a few extra mm and the rest can be punched, I will keep these. I'm assuming I should do this with footbeds in place and pad my big toes like crazy?

Again, amazing boot. Good job!

Just FYi MemoryFit won't give you length. The tech fitting is in the way of stretching. It will give quite a bit of width. I'd definitely try the footbed to bring your foot back for length as it'll correct a bit for splay.

 

[LeeLau]

so i just received the liners, and my oh my, the 25 pro tongue liner and a 25.5 shell was not a great fit. The pro tongue liner is just too bulky pre-heat treatment with the buckles barely going on the two top buckles and the lower shell deforming quite a bit (so i might have been talking out of my ass wrt not sizing up a size shell wise if you want to use some pro tongues). The pro tour liner in 26 fit quite well pre-heating and also provided noticeably better support than the stock 130 liner does as well as add a bit of girth to the shins .

Having never owned/used an intuition liner before I do not know how much they compact after being heated and molded. For all i know the pro tongues will still compact enough during the heating and molding, but i am thinking that the amount of compaction that is needed for them to be a great fit is just too large. I will give the Intuition guys a call tomorrow to get their take, but i am thinking that perhaps the best way forward is to go with the pro tours and be happy with the increase in support and comfort that they provide and keep the stock liners for all out touring duties.

Aka, just get the damned 120s if you want a beefier boot as it is cheaper and yields a similar outcome

**This post was edited on Dec 7th 2017 at 2:16:54pm

ProTongue will compact a bit but not much. It's meant to be beefy af. Cook it - cinch those buckles till ypu're screaming (Im not kidding) and you'll get some compaction

ProTour will thermomold a lot more

 

[onenerdykid]

Hey OneNerdyKid,

I was able to snag a pair of 120s through my semi-local shop (live in a remote location), last ones Atomic could find, stoked. When i was back east i tried on some Ultra 120s since they don't have XTDs in the flatlands and the 27/27.5 was the best fit based on feel and the boot-fitters opinion. The 28s seemed too roomy, so i ordered the XTD 27s. My 27.0 XTDs have not been heat molded yet since i'm seeing whether they will be the best fit for me and might have to return if not.

So far in ski mode with a bit of flex they feel awesome. When i pop into walk mode and stand straight up, my right big toe (longer foot) is pushing pretty hard against the front of the boot, especially when walking around the house. In other words, similar problems to the posts above. For reference i've been skiing a 27.5 salomon energyzer and 28.0 Dynafit mercury (314 mm) for my on and off hill setups.

Could you elaborate on the "1 cm shell fit" and exactly how you measure it?

With a barefoot and the liner removed, my toes gently touching the front of the shell I used a pencil to mark straight down from the back of my heel. I pulled out the removable shim and measured 7 mm to the back edge of the shim. Where am I stacking up for a fit that's snug for downhill but also won't be causing pain while touring? Is that distance reasonable to assume will be taken up with a combo of superfeet footbeds, heat molding and toe punching? or do i need to size up to the 28 shell and live with the roomy, looser fit?

Does toe punching affect the release performance in a frame (Tracker 16) binding?

With no local shops etc this is my only way to sort things out, cheers

RE:shell fit- 1cm is the space from the back of your heel (when your toes slightly touch the front) to the back of the heel pocket of the shell. Typically that 1cm is a "normal" finger tip. You can also use wooden dowels to judge the space as well. If you have 1cm fit in 27/27.5, you might not enjoy touring very much... Just depends on how much touring you'll do vs. resort shredding.

If a boot-fitter does a toe punch, he/she can do a reasonable amount before it affects the binding. 9/10, the area where you will be skiing can do it if there is not a legit fitter in your immediate area.

 

[skiernor_]

You will get quite a bit of cuff alignment through the Memory Fit process for sure. And if you pad the liner before heating the shells, it will move even more.

Just to be sure I understand this: For my bowleggedness I should put on pads on the liner, on the outside of my calves? This will put extra pressure on the shell during memory fit process to make the angle better for my legs?

 

[onenerdykid]

Just to be sure I understand this: For my bowleggedness I should put on pads on the liner, on the outside of my calves? This will put extra pressure on the shell during memory fit process to make the angle better for my legs?

Short answer, yes.

Generally speaking, the goal of cuff alignment is to adjust the angle of the cuff to match the angle of your leg.

So, if you remove the liner from the shell, put your footbed in the shell, stand in the shell, buckle the boot on a middle setting the goal should be to have equal space on each side of your leg between your leg and the cuff. The side which has less space indicates the direction you want to move the cuff. So, if I have contact on the outside of my leg, I want to move the cuff more to the outside. This would mean I would add a pad on the outside of the liner and push the plastic away from my leg.

 

[skiernor_]

Short answer, yes.

Generally speaking, the goal of cuff alignment is to adjust the angle of the cuff to match the angle of your leg.

So, if you remove the liner from the shell, put your footbed in the shell, stand in the shell, buckle the boot on a middle setting the goal should be to have equal space on each side of your leg between your leg and the cuff. The side which has less space indicates the direction you want to move the cuff. So, if I have contact on the outside of my leg, I want to move the cuff more to the outside. This would mean I would add a pad on the outside of the liner and push the plastic away from my leg.

Thanks! My concern was around which of the two, liner or shell, that would actually move. I was worried that the padded liner would be pressed together, while the shell would remain pretty much the same.

 

[Turnfarmer]

How's te 13* flip chip coming along?

 

[onenerdykid]

How's te 13* flip chip coming along?

Unfortunately, pretty slowly. I spoke with our purchasing department last week actually about this, and there are some delays in Italy. But next week is when most people return from holiday and I will get to the bottom of it.