Icant_kfed
Active member
I’m just curious on what peoples thoughts are on this and kinda wanna see ahall throw a future spin in the womens x games
First decent take by dedali in a while?
- Thread starter Icant_kfed
- Start date
I’m just curious on what peoples thoughts are on this and kinda wanna see ahall throw a future spin in the womens x games
TournevisRond
Member
Kind of a slippery slope argument imo. People aren't going to change sex for medals and I don't think that creating a trans division will fix the problem.
Icant_kfed
Active member
14415306:NeonGreenSharpie said:
Eh, if people do it for other sports why would skiing be an exception?
Professor-Modelo
Member
Thinking dudes shouldn’t be able to fuck chicks up in sports isn’t a “far right outrage thing”, you oaf
14415313:jps2.0 said:
Christian_Bale
Active member
14415321:Professor-Modelo said:
Point taken but they're not dudes.
BigPurpleSkiSuit
Active member
Why wouldn't it fix the problem?
14415306:NeonGreenSharpie said:
iH8pow
Active member
Kris Jenner or whatever the hell his/her name is competed as a man despite being a woman. That’s being brave/strong, if you’re biologically a man but have to compete against women, that’s chickenshit.
at some point we need to stop laying out the ivory carpet for them and lay some ground rules. I dont give a shit if 20% of kids these days wanna be gay, and 5% want to change sexes. Just stay in your fucking lane when it comes to competition—FACK!!!
ridiculous thing to even have to debate, this shits spinning out of control
at some point we need to stop laying out the ivory carpet for them and lay some ground rules. I dont give a shit if 20% of kids these days wanna be gay, and 5% want to change sexes. Just stay in your fucking lane when it comes to competition—FACK!!!
ridiculous thing to even have to debate, this shits spinning out of control
ToddlerBodyBag
Member
Its just bull shit. Everybody knows its bull shit but nobody wants to be labeled as trans phobic.
TournevisRond
Member
14415388:BigPurpleSkiSuit said:
There are not enough athletes and it would still be men competing against women. It is not so black and white.
TournevisRond
Member
14415311:Icant_kfed said:
Which sports?
Track and field ncaa d2 had a man win events he entered as a women. NCAA swimming a man Lea Thomas (I think) just beat women and set an ncaa womens record I think despite being a biological man. CT HS track and field dealt with it a few years ago and TX HS wresleting I think. Its definitely becoming way more common unfortunately.
14415418:NeonGreenSharpie said:
TournevisRond
Member
14415422:dshiland said:
Yes I know it is problematic, but no one's changing sex to win.
Icant_kfed
Active member
14415425:NeonGreenSharpie said:
It’s still completely unfair for the actual women who trained just to get absolutely blown out by someone with a dick
Imo not even just a dick. Males are just biologically bigger and stronger then women. You take a 5'6 135 dude and match him up with a chick the same size and I bet he wins most athletic type contests 9/10 times. I agree 100% its extremely unfair to women
14415440:Icant_kfed said:
A meh take in the Ahmet sea of stupidity.
Probably the best thing for all parties involved would be to have a separate league, and/or much more invasive testing and metrics to consider who can compete in what league.
Unfortunately, that is an idealistic solution, because as a minority group trans individuals take up an incredibly small part of the population. So in high schools, colleges, and professional sports, there is no incentive to invest in a separate league for the people with the money.
So now you run into issues where teens or older people who really do feel like they are stuck in the wrong body just are not allowed to compete in sports unless you go to a school or college that has a separate league...which is approximately none of them.
The interesting thing about this is that I never see people complain about women who transition to men competing, just men transitioning to women.
This could become a problem in the future, but I don't think it is one right now. You can bring up a handful of examples but when you consider all of the high-level high school, college, or even professional games or competitions that happen every year....I'd imagine that a male-to-female transperson winning them due to an unfair advantage is probably much much less than 1%.
Plenty of more common unfair shit happening. People messing around/lying about their age, private high schools having the ability to recruit whereas public schools do not, certain schools having way more funding than others, school districts messing around with their borders so they can stay in a more desirable division, 17 year running backs on gear etc. etc.
I'd wager that these things are much more common and have a much more detrimental effect on sports in the aggregate.
Probably the best thing for all parties involved would be to have a separate league, and/or much more invasive testing and metrics to consider who can compete in what league.
Unfortunately, that is an idealistic solution, because as a minority group trans individuals take up an incredibly small part of the population. So in high schools, colleges, and professional sports, there is no incentive to invest in a separate league for the people with the money.
So now you run into issues where teens or older people who really do feel like they are stuck in the wrong body just are not allowed to compete in sports unless you go to a school or college that has a separate league...which is approximately none of them.
The interesting thing about this is that I never see people complain about women who transition to men competing, just men transitioning to women.
This could become a problem in the future, but I don't think it is one right now. You can bring up a handful of examples but when you consider all of the high-level high school, college, or even professional games or competitions that happen every year....I'd imagine that a male-to-female transperson winning them due to an unfair advantage is probably much much less than 1%.
Plenty of more common unfair shit happening. People messing around/lying about their age, private high schools having the ability to recruit whereas public schools do not, certain schools having way more funding than others, school districts messing around with their borders so they can stay in a more desirable division, 17 year running backs on gear etc. etc.
I'd wager that these things are much more common and have a much more detrimental effect on sports in the aggregate.
Icant_kfed
Active member
14415471:Lonely said:
You bring up a lot of good points but females becoming men don’t have the biological advantages that someone who has been a man his whole life has been.
14415477:Icant_kfed said:
Yeah, I understand that, just pointing out that banning all transpeople from competition because men->women have a big advantage would unfairly hurt women who have transitioned to men that don't have the same advantage.
Female to male get punished for the actions of male to female
Borchmore
Member
This just seems like an attempt to put the trans athlete debate in a skiing context, when it is really a non-issue. I do not know a single trans freestyle skier. I think we should always be working towards greater inclusivity in skiing, so fear mongering about a hypothetical problem does more harm than good IMO. Unless trans women suddenly start dominating the podium, there's no real reason to bring this up
DesertStix
Active member
This thread salty af
Way*Mo
Member
The swimmer didn’t set an NCAA record, she happened to win the championship this season. Her winning time is 9 seconds slower than the woman’s world record in that distance.
Trans-women have been able to compete in NCAA events for 30 years and this is the one and only time a trans-athlete has won a championship. Once in 30 years. Hardly ‘domination’ people rage about.
In World Cup DH mountain biking there have been several trans-women athletes. None have won a single event. The top women routinely beat them by large margins.
Someone is always going to win an event. People will always put down dominant performances. Trans-women are hardly dominating on any type of scale. Additionally there has been numerous peer-reviewed research studies done that show after they undergo the full series of hormone treatments, that they retain no significant competitive advantage.
Trans-women have been able to compete in NCAA events for 30 years and this is the one and only time a trans-athlete has won a championship. Once in 30 years. Hardly ‘domination’ people rage about.
In World Cup DH mountain biking there have been several trans-women athletes. None have won a single event. The top women routinely beat them by large margins.
Someone is always going to win an event. People will always put down dominant performances. Trans-women are hardly dominating on any type of scale. Additionally there has been numerous peer-reviewed research studies done that show after they undergo the full series of hormone treatments, that they retain no significant competitive advantage.
14415422:dshiland said:
skierman
Active member
14415878:Way*Mo said:
You mean Kate Weatherly who swept the NZ DH national series and won national champs her first year competing against women? The next season she placed 2nd at the Crankworx Rotorua DH and nothing but top 10 finishes, two of which were podiums in her first year racing World Cup Elite DH?
Yeah bro, that like happens all the time in DH, completely normal.
Way*Mo
Member
NZ nationals is not WC racing. A fourth or fifth place while technically a podium is not winning. She didn’t do anything last years when the top dogs were back.
Gwin had a pretty meteoric rise, or are we purposely ignoring that?
What about Deprala almost winning the overall his first season in elites even with missing finals in a race.
Nice cherry picking bruh
Gwin had a pretty meteoric rise, or are we purposely ignoring that?
What about Deprala almost winning the overall his first season in elites even with missing finals in a race.
Nice cherry picking bruh
14415890:skierman said:
Way*Mo
Member
You know as well as I do finishing fifth in the womens field during the Covid season while some of the fastest racers were hurt isn’t ‘domination’.
And the failure to back those podiums up the following year proves it.
you just want to be an ignorant dick. but I know how on brand that is for you.
And the failure to back those podiums up the following year proves it.
you just want to be an ignorant dick. but I know how on brand that is for you.
14415901:skierman said:
AndrewGravesSV
Active member
Like some others have pointed out, its not a huge issue except for right wingers getting triggered and blowing shit out of proportion because they found a new easy marginalized group to attack. The gut reaction is that men competing against women isn't fair which immediately frames the whole discussion as these aren't "real" women which is transphobic by nature. A brief google shows that up to a year after hormone treatment that trans women retain some competitive advantage showing a bit of validity to the argument. However, its hard to quantify without many studies and there are clearly diminishing returns.
I think what is missing from this whole conversation in general is how your genetics give athletes their biggest competitive advantages anyway. Michael Phelps has double jointed ankles and a freak wingspan which give him a huge advantage but doesn't mean we have to put him into another category. Likewise, some women have naturally higher testosterone than others but we don't even know if testosterone is the main indicator of athletic prowess. Realistically, to be an elite athlete relies on freakish genetics, hard work and mentality, and it helps a ton to have some amount of privilege to be able to singularly on your sport (especially with niche ones).
I don't see it as a huge issue at the top level considering how few trans people there are, and so why make it a huge issue across the board? Sports can be the best impact for someone's mental health and deciding a group of people with the highest suicide rates can't do them because it would be "unfair" seems cruel to me.
I think what is missing from this whole conversation in general is how your genetics give athletes their biggest competitive advantages anyway. Michael Phelps has double jointed ankles and a freak wingspan which give him a huge advantage but doesn't mean we have to put him into another category. Likewise, some women have naturally higher testosterone than others but we don't even know if testosterone is the main indicator of athletic prowess. Realistically, to be an elite athlete relies on freakish genetics, hard work and mentality, and it helps a ton to have some amount of privilege to be able to singularly on your sport (especially with niche ones).
I don't see it as a huge issue at the top level considering how few trans people there are, and so why make it a huge issue across the board? Sports can be the best impact for someone's mental health and deciding a group of people with the highest suicide rates can't do them because it would be "unfair" seems cruel to me.
Professor-Modelo
Member
We ABSOLUTELY do know that testosterone levels and athletic abilities directly correlate with one another.
14415918:AndrewGravesSV said:
Icant_kfed
Active member
14415918:AndrewGravesSV said:
Saying your a girl doesn’t take away your chromosomes, testosterone, bone structure, fundamentally men and women are different, apples to oranges
AndrewGravesSV
Active member
14415919:Professor-Modelo said:
We know that giving someone extra testosterone will increase performance but isn't that just doping? You can say the same about a lot of chemicals/drugs.
https://www.popsci.com/story/science/testosterone-effect-athletic-performance/
don’t believe everything you think
SchizoSkier
Active member
Hank Stowers is…
14415425:NeonGreenSharpie said:
GloryHoleGary
Member
Trans = Mental Illness
AndrewGravesSV
Active member
14415933:Icant_kfed said:
Not talking about surgeries or any transition process but I think if you're willing to present yourself as a woman to society then you should be considered one. Women have faced a lot more obstacles in our society than men, a lot of which still exist today. If you don't think thats true then you should talk to more women and listen. If you want society to treat you as a woman then you should at least be able to take the title too.
14416078:GloryHoleGary said:
Sick take dude lay off the jordan peterson
GloryHoleGary
Member
14416270:AndrewGravesSV said:
I honestly can’t believe this is even a debate. The fact that there are people out there like yourself who literally believe the words that just came out of your mouth is absolute lunacy.
you got dick and balls you’re a dude.
you got a pussy you’re a chick.
end of story.
cannot believe this has to be explained and argued. It’s absolutely asinine.
BigmoneyMatt
Active member
He's right, having a women's sport be dominated by biological males is an embarrassment to our societal structure as a whole. Anyone who somehow disagrees with this statement should be sterilized because they are an equal threat to our gene-pool.
**This post was edited on Mar 22nd 2022 at 3:26:42am
**This post was edited on Mar 22nd 2022 at 3:26:42am
Icant_kfed
Active member
14416278:GloryHoleGary said:
The fact that people are downvoting this is just as scary
yungspliffy
Member
14416278:GloryHoleGary said:
wow theres actually a negative ratio on this, imma take a break from Newschoolers. too many public HS kids that hold an opinion which has been fed to them. Its not their fault though, these topics are for whatever reason being shoved down their throat 24/7. my mom is a public high school teacher and is literally required to speak on all of this BS as if any of it is productive. ironic how sexuality and gender definitions have become the biggest hot button issue in a pussy internet era where no one is even having sex. pose a logical argument that might hurt some people's feelings? you are now a something "-phobe". Fucking sad where this country is at
yungspliffy
Member
14416314:skierman said:
its sad what you look like
bitch
**This post was edited on Mar 22nd 2022 at 8:08:46am
sexyjulian
Member
14415306:NeonGreenSharpie said:
I’ll take a little bit of crack too if you’re sharing?
jprene8
Member
I get the debate there are differences between biological men and women, especially with someone early in their transition before their body has changed much. People on both sides have made good arguments as well. But can we not be blatantly transphobic though. Like you can have this debate without some of us just totally shitting on the existence of trans folk. Of course you’re entitled to your opinion but the thread “is NS to toxic” was made for a reason some of the comments in here are part of the reason why this site has the reputation of being toxic and why some newer/younger members can be afraid to post. You can have and state your opinion but be mindful that just cause you can say what you want doesn’t mean that doesn’t carry a consequence or reaction with it.