First decent take by dedali in a while?

Def heading in somewhat of a good direction? Like I see the intention is good but then it comes down to the simple fact that trans men are men and trans women are women
 
14416369:CrunnchyPissFart said:
Def heading in somewhat of a good direction? Like I see the intention is good but then it comes down to the simple fact that trans men are men and trans women are women
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You'd only truly believe this if you'd date a trans woman.
 
People who advocate for trans athletes aren't living in a fictional fairy tale like people like people say btw. Nobody is arguing that hormone levels don't matter, and it is explicitly stated in basically every sport that allows trans athletes, that hormone levels for trans women must be significantly reduced for period of time to compete in the women's category. The FWT is no exception.

Whether this goes far enough to ensure fair competition is a hot debate. Decades of testosterone can give an advantage but on the other hand it is common for cis women to have more testosterone than allowed for trans women anyway. So then you get dragged into a debate about other biological advantages, which basically all high-level athletes possess due to luck.

Speaking of which, keep in mind trans people don't choose to be trans. They destroy their relationships with family, friends, hinder job growth, etc because it is really important to them to be who they feel they are. I simply do not believe anybody out there is taking hormone suppressants and pretending (and likely completely ruining their personal lives) to be a trans women just so they can win competitions. IF (and this is a big if) anybody did, that I would be staunchly against it.

Yea, there's room to debate how we make competition fair for both cis women and trans women, but how tf am I supposed to debate with people just screaming nonsense about "they changed to win", "trans people are mentally ill", and with zero knowledge on what the regulations right now are anyways.
 
14416387:IsaacNW82 said:
People who advocate for trans athletes aren't living in a fictional fairy tale like people like people say btw. Nobody is arguing that hormone levels don't matter, and it is explicitly stated in basically every sport that allows trans athletes, that hormone levels for trans women must be significantly reduced for period of time to compete in the women's category. The FWT is no exception.

Whether this goes far enough to ensure fair competition is a hot debate. Decades of testosterone can give an advantage but on the other hand it is common for cis women to have more testosterone than allowed for trans women anyway. So then you get dragged into a debate about other biological advantages, which basically all high-level athletes possess due to luck.

Speaking of which, keep in mind trans people don't choose to be trans. They destroy their relationships with family, friends, hinder job growth, etc because it is really important to them to be who they feel they are. I simply do not believe anybody out there is taking hormone suppressants and pretending (and likely completely ruining their personal lives) to be a trans women just so they can win competitions. IF (and this is a big if) anybody did, that I would be staunchly against it.

Yea, there's room to debate how we make competition fair for both cis women and trans women, but how tf am I supposed to debate with people just screaming nonsense about "they changed to win", "trans people are mentally ill", and with zero knowledge on what the regulations right now are anyways.
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Literally this whole statement. I feel like also when people argue against trans athletes (almost always trans women) it divulges into one party throwing around just offensive shit because they don’t respect the concept of a trans individual in general. At that point it’s like what’s even the point of the debate if your argument is about these peoples right to exist as they are without receiving abuse and not about a level playing field in sports.
 
14416278:GloryHoleGary said:
I honestly can’t believe this is even a debate. The fact that there are people out there like yourself who literally believe the words that just came out of your mouth is absolute lunacy.

you got dick and balls you’re a dude.

you got a pussy you’re a chick.

end of story.

cannot believe this has to be explained and argued. It’s absolutely asinine.
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You should do some research on intersex people my dude, I get that its cool to do the whole facts over feelings thing but it only works if you have the facts to put weight behind your take. There is significant amount of people who don't fit neatly into the binary and it should be ok for there to be space for them in between and how they want to present themselves to the world. Its a personal freedom and right in my mind.

14416343:jprene8 said:
I get the debate there are differences between biological men and women, especially with someone early in their transition before their body has changed much. People on both sides have made good arguments as well. But can we not be blatantly transphobic though. Like you can have this debate without some of us just totally shitting on the existence of trans folk. Of course you’re entitled to your opinion but the thread “is NS to toxic” was made for a reason some of the comments in here are part of the reason why this site has the reputation of being toxic and why some newer/younger members can be afraid to post. You can have and state your opinion but be mindful that just cause you can say what you want doesn’t mean that doesn’t carry a consequence or reaction with it.
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Agreed for sure, the issue with sports gets super murky without a clear cut solution. This is especially true considering the knee jerk reaction that men will abuse the system to win. It sucks having a culture that prioritizes winning so much that its easy to imagine it happening. Idk the solution overall but I think banning trans folks from sports especially at youth levels does more harm than good. The transphobia in here is pretty fucked and sucks to see
 
William Thomas ranked 462nd in mens swimming leagues.

Lia Thomas ranked 1st in women's swimming leagues.

If you wont accept that men are physically dominant to females then you're ignoring reality. This is tough for the mentally deficient groups that support this stuff because where is feminism now? You've got a man beating out women in a women's only competition, but anything to not be transphobic!!!
 
14416406:gilbert_grape said:
William Thomas ranked 462nd in mens swimming leagues.

Lia Thomas ranked 1st in women's swimming leagues.

If you wont accept that men are physically dominant to females then you're ignoring reality. This is tough for the mentally deficient groups that support this stuff because where is feminism now? You've got a man beating out women in a women's only competition, but anything to not be transphobic!!!
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He was ranked 462 out of 3,800 NCAA Division 1 swimmers, meaning he ranked top 12%

He was ranked within the top 3% of all NCAA divisions.

Of course there are advantages, but there are also disadvantages. Especially in swimming, that is why you didn't see lia win every race. The NCAA has had 30yrs of trans athletes competing, don't you think we would see more trans winners if they were as "physically dominating" as you imply?

Also would like to point out that feminism is extended to trans women, after all they are women.

**This post was edited on Mar 22nd 2022 at 1:33:05pm
 
14416431:jerzy42 said:
He was ranked 462 out of 3,800 NCAA Division 1 swimmers, meaning he ranked top 12%

He was ranked within the top 3% of all NCAA divisions.

Of course there are advantages, but there are also disadvantages. Especially in swimming, that is why you didn't see lia win every race. The NCAA has had 30yrs of trans athletes competing, don't you think we would see more trans winners if they were as "physically dominating" as you imply?

Also would like to point out that feminism is extended to trans women, after all they are women.

**This post was edited on Mar 22nd 2022 at 1:33:05pm
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OOOOOH SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY, YOU INSUFFERABLE PIECE OF SHIT.
 
These exact words run through my head anytime I am unfortunate enough to accidentally read a post of yours

14416466:skierman said:
OOOOOH SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY, YOU INSUFFERABLE PIECE OF SHIT.
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lol this thread just outs every retarded transphobic conservative and unrealistic retarded liberal
 
14416502:Jems said:
lol this thread just outs every retarded transphobic conservative and unrealistic retarded liberal
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and here sits James, a perfect being sitting in the middle of all chaos, simply observing and laughing from his protected, centrist bubble. SUCK MY DICK U LITTLE CHODE!!!!!
 
14416539:gilbert_grape said:
and here sits James, a perfect being sitting in the middle of all chaos, simply observing and laughing from his protected, centrist bubble. SUCK MY DICK U LITTLE CHODE!!!!!
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thanks cuck man
 
If agreeing with him makes me transphobic fuck it, at least I have an ounce of common sense compared to these people that think this is kind of thing is ok.
 
14416556:DummyBears said:
If agreeing with him makes me transphobic fuck it, at least I have an ounce of common sense compared to these people that think this is kind of thing is ok.
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Yup. I’d rather be considered transphobic than retarded.
 
14416523:maxpleasure420 said:
Yes they are dumbass.. they were born with a dick.. that means they are a male. Chop the dick off.. guess what still a fucking male!!
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you sound mad. Does someone's identity really affect your life in any way? let people do what they want
 
14415313:jps2.0 said:
its honestly just not a issue

name a single male skier thats switched sides..

it's just a common far right outrage type thing
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This is what I kind of have a problem with. I'm not far right, I'm not even remotely near the right but I think that trans women shouldn't be allowed to compete against afab athletes. It's not far right to think that, it's not transphobic, I'm not a terf; that's a totally understandable and justifiable stance to take on this issue.
 
Right but you probably frame the discussion in a genuinely curious and non-evil manner…

14416590:-eREKTion- said:
This is what I kind of have a problem with. I'm not far right, I'm not even remotely near the right but I think that trans women shouldn't be allowed to compete against afab athletes. It's not far right to think that, it's not transphobic, I'm not a terf; that's a totally understandable and justifiable stance to take on this issue.
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And I think that’s fine, if you’re discussion hinges on that and doesn’t try to marginalize the person and just address the topic of a fair and level playing field in sports most people won’t have a problem with that conversation. Obviously except for the most radical inclusionary types.

14416590:-eREKTion- said:
This is what I kind of have a problem with. I'm not far right, I'm not even remotely near the right but I think that trans women shouldn't be allowed to compete against afab athletes. It's not far right to think that, it's not transphobic, I'm not a terf; that's a totally understandable and justifiable stance to take on this issue.
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14416588:Christian_Bale said:
you sound mad. Does someone's identity really affect your life in any way? let people do what they want
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You are the problem with world.. If you think it's ok for a man to chop off his penis and then go compete against women and win and claim "it" is the fastest "women" in the race you are delusional.
 
14416607:maxpleasure420 said:
You are the problem with world.. If you think it's ok for a man to chop off his penis and then go compete against women and win and claim "it" is the fastest "women" in the race you are delusional.
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Dude I said absolutely nothing about competing.

It's easy to say I'm the problem with the world when u don't know me. It's easy to talk shit on the internet. I disagree with u about trans people being valid but I don't claim that you're the problem with the world
 
14416590:-eREKTion- said:
This is what I kind of have a problem with. I'm not far right, I'm not even remotely near the right but I think that trans women shouldn't be allowed to compete against afab athletes. It's not far right to think that, it's not transphobic, I'm not a terf; that's a totally understandable and justifiable stance to take on this issue.
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I pretty much agree and I think we should have a normal discussion about this topic but some people in this thread are saying some transphobic shit
 
14416737:Christian_Bale said:
Dude I said absolutely nothing about competing.

It's easy to say I'm the problem with the world when u don't know me. It's easy to talk shit on the internet. I disagree with u about trans people being valid but I don't claim that you're the problem with the world
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LOL I'd happily tell you the same thing to your face. and then if you talked shit back I'd probably feed you your teeth.
 
14416741:Christian_Bale said:
I pretty much agree and I think we should have a normal discussion about this topic but some people in this thread are saying some transphobic shit
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I’m sorry but if you have a Y chromosome your a male. You can’t just wake up and change your anatomy
 
14416767:maxpleasure420 said:
LOL I'd happily tell you the same thing to your face. and then if you talked shit back I'd probably feed you your teeth.
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Okay but like why would there be a need for violence. Also that attitude will probably land you in jail for assault and battery.
 
14416691:Biffbarf said:
Idk call me old fashioned but I like my women sans cock and balls. 2022 is a wild time to be alive.
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This is the dumbest shit and not even worth coming up with a witty reply
 
There doesn’t have to be a large advantage or disadvantage to change the argument that you should compete as what you were born as. Sure, different sport have different regulations to make it a little more fair, but that doesn’t matter in the big picture. People are transitioning and clearly dominating in some sports within year. Not everyone has to accept the change either. Its your choice and its no one else's problem but theirs.
 
Everyone in here threatening violence, or marginalizing an entire community need to learn some empathy.

Based on how difficult it is to navigate the world as a trans-person, do you think anyone would choose that for shits-and-giggles? To win a couple sporting events?

I can guarantee they would not.
 
14416791:Icant_kfed said:
I’m sorry but if you have a Y chromosome your a male. You can’t just wake up and change your anatomy
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Gender =/= sex. The vast majority of biologists, doctors, psychologists, and social scientists all agree about that distinction.
 
14416870:IsaacNW82 said:
Gender =/= sex. The vast majority of biologists, doctors, psychologists, and social scientists all agree about that distinction.
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This is fine if you completely throw away that most people consinder females women and males men. People who spout off 'trans women are women' want to change it but it's such an anomaly it's asinine to expect the majority to adopt their nomenclature instead of the other way around.
 
14416953:Biffbarf said:
This is fine if you completely throw away that most people consinder females women and males men. People who spout off 'trans women are women' want to change it but it's such an anomaly it's asinine to expect the majority to adopt their nomenclature instead of the other way around.
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Well, not really. 40% of Americans think an individual can decide their gender even if it's not what was assigned at birth and 38% disagree.
 
14416990:IsaacNW82 said:
Well, not really. 40% of Americans think an individual can decide their gender even if it's not what was assigned at birth and 38% disagree.
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Your statistics don't account for the fact that people think male when they thing about men and females when they think about women. My point has nothing to do with whether or not people aknowledge that gender is a spectrum.
 
14416996:Biffbarf said:
Your statistics don't account for the fact that people think male when they thing about men and females when they think about women. My point has nothing to do with whether or not people aknowledge that gender is a spectrum.
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You can’t explain logic to a dumbass, if I were you I’d use my time on something else
 
14416996:Biffbarf said:
Your statistics don't account for the fact that people think male when they thing about men and females when they think about women. My point has nothing to do with whether or not people aknowledge that gender is a spectrum.
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That stat isn't about gender being a spectrum either...

I'm saying roughly half of people in America think somebody born as male (sex) who identifies as a women (gender) should be recognized socially as a woman (gender). That is what "trans women are women" means.
 
14417015:IsaacNW82 said:
That stat isn't about gender being a spectrum either...

I'm saying roughly half of people in America think somebody born as male (sex) who identifies as a women (gender) should be recognized socially as a woman (gender). That is what "trans women are women" means.
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Ok. But for example trans women do specific things to their bodies to make themselves look female because their ideology of a women is someone who is female, just like everyone else.
 
I think it's irrational to make an entire trans division in any sport as there simply aren't enough of them.

Make men's comps into "open" where men, trans, and women who want to compete can. Women don't often want to compete with men, but I've seen it happen. Never been a big deal. Then have a separate women's division as well. Only way that I see is fair for the greatest amount of people.
 
14416893:Biffbarf said:
It's cuz you got nothing fam
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Yea bro, I do got nothing, Im literally queer and have no damn reason to explain it to you or validate it with you. Take a trip out ur hometown bud
 
14417088:CrunnchyPissFart said:
Yea bro, I do got nothing, Im literally queer and have no damn reason to explain it to you or validate it with you. Take a trip out ur hometown bud
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Nothin wrong with that g. Just don't expect straight males to be down with trans women like they're female (or, this is controversial to say, regular women)
 
14417094:Biffbarf said:
Nothin wrong with that g. Just don't expect straight males to be down with trans women like they're female (or, this is controversial to say, regular women)
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I see u bro, we all got our own outlooks, just important to be tolerant of those different from us, even I gotta work on doing that. Peace my man
 
14417094:Biffbarf said:
Nothin wrong with that g. Just don't expect straight males to be down with trans women like they're female (or, this is controversial to say, regular women)
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For the record, I am a straight man who has no problem calling trans women women so I think this is a you thing player
 
14417375:GrandThings said:
For the record, I am a straight man who has no problem calling trans women women so I think this is a you thing player
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Nah man, if you don't agree with 100% of their demands, you're a transphobe and a horrible person. Didn't you get the memo in the latest weekly update of "LGBTQQIP2SAA" magazine? I mean like, its not hard to keep up!

And no, I'm not kidding. That's now the NEW acronym. LGBTQQIP2SAA

Yup.... talk about letting the patients run the nut house.
 
14417375:GrandThings said:
For the record, I am a straight man who has no problem calling trans women women so I think this is a you thing player
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The irony that you have to specify calling trans women women is my whole point here.
 
14417378:skierman said:
Nah man, if you don't agree with 100% of their demands, you're a transphobe and a horrible person. Didn't you get the memo in the latest weekly update of "LGBTQQIP2SAA" magazine? I mean like, its not hard to keep up!

And no, I'm not kidding. That's now the NEW acronym. LGBTQQIP2SAA

Yup.... talk about letting the patients run the nut house.
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Good skierman take
 
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