Drill here. Drill now. Pay Less.

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yeah i havent really been a huge fan of raising prices in oil... but this online petition will not stop anything
 
ok Winter park has sucky internet, and i cant quote...

to rowen... im sorry if you thought i was putting words in your mouth, i did not mean it that way, but when you start about taking money away from the bastards at the oil company, it really sounds like you blaim them..... if you dont, thats a good thing, but im telling you my perseption of your posts...

here is the 18cents a gallon thing i have been "harping on"

"She is proposing suspending the federal tax of 18.4 cents a gallon, and

imposing a windfall profits tax on oil companies to replace that

revenue that goes to the fund that pays for road and bridge repairs.

Neither is likely to get through Congress, but Clinton is highlighting

the issue in TV ads and speeches in the final days before Tuesday's

primaries in Indiana and North Carolina."

straight from the horses mouth(aka hillbilly Clinton)
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/05/clinton_not_bac.html

i would still like to know, why you think it is a bad idea to get OUR oil, we need it now, we cant get it now, but we most certainly WILL need it in the future...

and when that time comes hopefully we will only need it to run industrys, take the airlines, for the foreseable future, they will always need oil, and wouldnt it be better for america if they bought oil from america? or else we could continue to suck hugo chavez's dick, and all the other oil rich nations... but hopefully we will not be driving cars with gas in 20 years... so our oil consumption will go way way way down...

PS we actually have but loads of oil, when you combine what is under CO, the outer continental shelf, and ANWR... America is not running out of oil, we are just a bunch of pussy's when it comes to getting it...

i would still like to know your take on my little senario i set up where you have the choice to do business in America, where the government can say "you robber barons" we are taking away the money you made..

or just say, death to america and her debt ridden economy and just pack up shop and move....
 
Nowhere have I ever endorsed Hillary Clinton, or that proposed legislation. Stop stereotyping me.

I do put blame on the oil companies, but not sole blame for the price of gas and the state of our economy. They should share in the criticism and problems that dog this countries progress.

I think its a cost/benefit kinda thing when it comes to US oil. I believe that preserving some of the shrinking arctic wildlife refuge is important considering the low amounts of oil they predict we'll get from that area. As far as I've heard, the US might not have enough local oil to cost effectively build and maintain supply routes and drilling operations. Not that we should abandon all local oil prospects, but emphasis on alternative fuel sources and maintaining better and less strong handed relations with other countries like Venezuela and Brazil might yeild us oil without destroying our wilderness or the farce of spending more money than we'll gain by drilling small fields just to say that our country can be self sufficient for, oh, less than a year with our local supply.
 
still cant quote :( so this is in response to Rowen.

if you thought i was trying to stereo type you into a clinton endorser, im sorry, that was not my intention.

my intention was to show you where i got the idea that the american people would be better served by eliminating the gas tax over go after the oil company's for being good at what they do (sell oil)....

because by your own numbers, it would save americans, .02 cents, per gallon, while according to hilary clinton, we can cut gas by 18 cents per gallon, by merly taking a few laws off the books... so in an economic sense, how does stealing from the oil company's help the average american who is struggling to pay the bills? short answer, it doesnt...

why is it that the oil in ANWR is not worth going after? imagine in 20 years, hopefully the only oil using vehicals on the road will be semi's, construction equipment, and airplanes in the sky... now if there is enough estamated oil in ANWR to last us for 6 months (at our current rate of consumption) then imagine how long that oil would last us if it was only used for very specific purposes (see above, airplanes, ect.)

these numbers do not take into account the amount of oil located in our water, and the amount hidden beneath the Rockies...

i am also sure you know that the oil company's only need roughly 2,000 acres in ANWR, its not like they would be filling all 17 milliion acres with oil drills...
 
Its not stealing from the oil companies. Oil companies have foregone congress and our peoples cries to help this country in this time of crisis, and the corporations respond by saying "HA, Fuckles to you!" and instead reap the massive profits from price control and manipulation. As for Clinton, I neither disagree or agree since I have not looked into the issues shes proposing, but I still dont see how you can disagree that what these companies have done is at the very least slightly immoral.

As for ANWR, I really doubt that our countries needs will be sufficient just to survive on that and the unknown amounts of oil in the rockies. Its really useless speculation. But I just doubt that with our current rates of consumption and our countries enamored addiction for oil over other alternative fuels that we'll remain at such levels, provided some massive disaster or radical foreign policy changes do not occur.

And as for 2000 out of 17 million acres... I dunno man, to me theres a difference between pristine and touched. I'd like some places in this world to remain completely untouched of humanity, reguardless if I or anyone else get to see them. And yeah, I'd be more than prepared to pay a little more for the gas I use in order to preserve them.

 
quote is working ! yea!

ok, why is a 4 % profit so bad?

really that "massive profit" is not so great....

to be blunt, if that 4% profit number is correct(i asked holte for a refference) i dont have a problem if the oil company's are making that much, lets say they poored 100,000$ into a business, and they made 4,000$ does that put things into perspective??

if that is bad, we should be going after those robber barons who buy a foreclosed home for 50,000$ fix it up, and sell it for 200,000$ lets assume that they put another 50 grand into the home, so they made 100,000$

they took 1 dollar, and made it 2 dollars.... whoops, they will still have to pay those capital gains taxes, which are a bitch, and will only go up under Obama....

as far as the amount of oil under the Rockies, its a shit load, and then combine that with the ammount under the gulf of Mexico, and off the California cost, we have plenty of oil.... maybe not enough to be self sufficent, but its better than nothing and, "it all ads up".....

"perhaps as much as 1.8 trillion barrels in

the American West. That's enough to meet current U.S. oil demand for

more than two centuries. "
http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_9641090?source=commented-

again, if the US government is going to get in the practice of saying "you bastards, you make to much money, lets impose a wind fall profits tax" WHAT IS THAT GOING TO DO to this economy? buisness will leave left and right!

i dont know why you keep bringing clinton up, i only used her as a source for a number, hopefully you understand that now.

if your argument is "its soooo beautiful" i cant agrue against that......... that is your perception, and to each his own....

 
Fucking christ dude, I'm not going to drag the motherfucking candidates into this mess. If you want to know why I think a 4% profit margin is wrong, its because they are reaping profits when they were mandated to help our country. Thats why I think its wrong, thats why I'm a democrat, and thats why you have a problem with my views. I see the disparity between the richest 10% and the poorest 10% of America grow and I think somethings wrong. I could easily turn that question you posed right back at you and ask what the fuck you expect our economy to do when 5% of the population in this country owns more property and assets than the other 95% of the world. But I'll save you your breath - you have your conservative views, I have my liberal views. I'm done with this thread until intelligent discussion arises and the fucking political instigation and provocation ceases. Doubtful that it will.

 
whoa, im sorry i said "that will go up under obama"

aside from that, please express your views to everything else i have posted...

if you actually took the time to read ALL of my posts you will see, that i did not mean to "put words in you mouth" or "assume about hillary"

and when you misconstrued my posts, i made myself clear, and apologized where necessary...

really, go for it, i want to hear what you think........
 
might i point out...

all you did is pound your feet, and scream at the top of your lungs about how i said "obama" (gasp)

notice i was factually correct when i said "obama, will raise that"

and that little "obama will raise that" part was partly meant to be a joke about how any amount of money you make is not actually "yours" the government gets it paws on everything... sorry if you didnt see it that way...

one more quick question, why is bringing the candidates into this such a bad thing? after all we are dealing with a political issue, and "to drill, or not to drill". will likely be one of the bigger issues this fall...

so why did you get so defensive when i said "obama" (gasp)!!!

also, i hope you took the time to understand, I WAS ONLY USING CLINTON AS A SOURCE FOR A NUMBER...... i was not advancing her based on a policy!

also, dont ever think i hate liberals, for the most part all the liberals i know (beleive me, i know way more liberals over conservatives) and they are all really nice people..... its the batty ones that drive me nuts, but i do not count you in this ilustrous group.... :)

again, feel free to take a swing at everything i have posted, i want to know what you think...

 
you bring up a good point here drew but did it ever occur to you that America is the only country (with the exception of a few other countries) that cares about the rest of the world, environment or humanity?

we both know that the dominate species always takes over at the advantages of the weaker species Drew. in our case "yes" we are taking away the rights to the environment against our own "economic gain" and both sides can be argued that we will actually destroy any environment in the process. (please refer from using the caribou statements, not that you would use it anyways)

from a personal standpoint i would love alternative energy everywhere, im sick of the oil prices too.

on the other hand (the one that i agree with the most) as a future business owner you have to face the realities of the world. why we sit here arguing over what to do, im stuck in the real world of business trying to stay afloat during these tough times and dealing with the price of gas and oil to get my products here. alternative fuels are great for the individual but for the real world to survive we need that oil to build, move and transport goods. (im not trying to put words in your mouth im just stating my opinion).

why do you think people are loosing their jobs? because of the price of doing business keeps going up and the dollar keeps falling, why do you think companies are moving overseas? its not because they are evil and want to leave this country. every business wants to STAY in this country. but the cost of doing business in this country out weighs the cost of other countries. in order for some companies to survive they had to move.

i dont know how i got so off topic.

the answer to your question though is "yes" we must sacrifice alittle to gain alot.
 
That fundumental question answers itself I think. The opinion that people express on this issue is a representation of where they think that line should be drawn. The debating/arguing that follows is a way of trying to increase the acceptance of your own stance on the issue by getting your opposition to admit that part of there is flawed. The thing is, each side inheritently has flaws in it which usually is the cause of the initial debate. IMO, debating about these issues back and forth helps to bring to light the true middle ground where no one outright 'wins', but both side come out adhead by agreeing on a group of mutual practices.

We need to remember though that the world is definately not static, and as a result the foundations that all arguements rely on changes in relation to all other agruments on a constant basis. Fundimentally I supposed you could classify those changes as trends. Either way though times change and opinions that used to once be rock solid are now showing there age and as such, they get replaced with something else.

---

My opinion on this issue is that we are rapidly approaching this shift and as such, we need to change our outlook on our past 'foundations' and see if they still hold the best outlook for our future. In the case of oil as a major energy source, I don't think it does represent the best practical future for us and thats my reason for being voical against it. I provide a wide variety of reasons for this view both economically and environmentally and I only wish the opposing side on NS would realize their own faults or at least come up with some decent critiques of mine because further discussing this issue will only make of all more educated on it and maybe we can find some middle ground :)
 
I agree that this is a painful transition process and thats why I want it to switch over ASAP. Why prolong this inevitable switch when all it does is create a string of rough times? The sooner we switch over the sooner prices will drop and we'll all be happy again.
 
Sorry for the triple post but I want to add that we CAN make this switch over very quickly because we DO have the technologies required to do it.

Oil companies are a) outdated and b) holding humanities progress back as a whole.
 
good question, and i have no right or wrong answer on it...

but one could argue that we piss on the environment every day just by living... (deep exhale) i just polluted.. :)

see where i am going, the human race is not perfect....

but at the same time, America has made leaps and bounds as far as cleaning up the planet we live in, and that is a good thing... and i for one believe that if the oil is there (which it is) and we can get it safely (which we can) than forcing some caribu, and what ever the hell else lives up there, to change.... only serves to better man kind as a whole as the world moves along....

after the first alaska pipeline, the caribu went nuts reproducing......

think of this angle, would you rather your oil comes from American's who follow the strictest laws when it comes to the environment, or would you rather keep buying it from people like saddam, who committed one of the most atrocious acts ever against the environment..

 
no we cannot make the switch very quickly. we may on a consumer base ( and we are; hybrids for consumers) but we cannot switch over the industrialized market that quickly. we will have to come to a middle ground like you said. what it will come down to is drilling here (to keep prices down for the vehicles we still need to run off of oil) and creating alternative energy and fuels at the same time. the transition period will be tough, and it is but how can you expect us to just switch over so soon? tell me please cuz i dont see it happening.
 
Please explain what you mean by 'industrialized market' and why it can't switch over quickly.
 
" $4.00 a gallon aah, dependence on foreign oil aaah "

although dependence on foreign oil maybe true, i don't look into it because i am uninterested, but being heavy into the finance sector i suggest anyone to read the writings of Ben Bernanke (chairman of the board of governors of the federal reserve) or Frederick Mishkin (also on the fed reserve). These two are very good at explaining our situation of oil and the economy, the mainstream media don't normally let them get in prime time slots(usually can watch them at like 1 am) because they aren't the most entertaining to watch, and perhaps talk over most peoples heads, maybe.

It all comes down to the power of the dollar (more or less)... Years ago, President Bush implemented a "Low dollar policy"...what this did was made the exchange rate of the dollar relatively low compared to other currencies. With u.s. goods now being cheaper relative to foreign goods, countries were supposed to increase purchases of our products and therefore boost our gdp (domestic output), keeping us out of this poor economic situation that we're in, didn't seem to work now well did it?

But this low dollar policy is the culprit for the rising prices of oil and other products. If the dollar was strengthened, the fed said we would see a SHARP decrease in the price of oil and gasoline.

The U.S. has more oil reserves than the middle eastern "oil rich" country's reserves combined. Just recently they found a new oil field off the coast of venezuela, which contains 32 billion/trillion (i dont remember) barrels of oil. Something great and very sustainable

idk just a thought.....

 
You can't turn an oil refinery into a hydroelectric plant overnight. (The the analogy is ridiculous, but you get the picture.)
 
industrialized market:

what i grouped into that category are items such as the trucking industry, the construction industry, the commercial industry, the military. pretty much anything that is not sold at the consumer level.

why cant we switch? your better than that and you know it,

because the technology is not here yet to power these types of industries both affordably and efficiently. show me an alternative fuel that can move a semi, power a jet engine, or move a cargo ship.

we need to do both, control oil supply and search for viable solutions to fossil fuels.
 
First off, if its impossible to switch over night (which I agree), why do you feel the need to delay the start of the transition? We either do it now while oil is at $4/gallon or we do it later when oil is at $10/gallon. Why wait to start? Right now there are federal laws in place, combined with tax breaks and subsidies to oil companies that are delaying the start of this transition. All i'm asking for is for the playing feild to be equal and to stop playing favorites with big oil.

Now the portion of your post that I quoted:

I will say that the transition for these industries will take longer then they will for consumer products, but without the consumer products in place, what foundation will research for these higher tech industries use to develop technolofy to power semi's, cargo ships and jets? We need to put a working technology into place now to use as a foundation for future reseach and development.

Right now the alternative engery industry is both growing and bottle necked at the right time. Recently a US oil tycoon laided down $200 billion dollars to build a belt of windturbines across the US 'wind belt' (texas-north dakota) that is projected to satisfy 22% of the US energy demands. Now imagine if the reigns were let loose and alternative energy companies were given the same treatment as oil companies...shit would hit the fan with development.

You want a way to reverse this recession and spark your economy? Even the playing feild when it comes to the energy sector. You'd have so many new jobs created you wouldnt know what the fuck happened.
 
That's a very good point, though I'll admit it does have its obvious complications. Just curious, who is this oil tycoon?
 
i agree with the first paragraph. companies are already starting to go into the alternative fuel stages. (BTW i watched your documentary on "who killed the electric car" and you could go both ways with that, but for now ill leave that out of the conversation). for example, hybrid vehicles, electric cars, hydrogen fuel cells.... and thats a great thing and a step in the right direction. however, we need to control our own oil market first before we can transition into the next step, and not rely so heavily on middle east oil (even though we get the most from you guys up north, haha) which is so price sensitive is frickin retarded.

second paragraph. dont confuse alternative energy with alternative fuel, its 2 different things (which u also know) i live in montana and we are FINALLY starting to see more and more wind farms produced here and we also have hydroelectric dams here which they are upgrading pretty soon. the great thing about wind and water is that they are "recession proof" they will always be there.

but i still have to refer back to the oil. how about this (like the majority of us are saying) search for alternative fuels and energy while trying to control oil prices so the rest of the "industrialized world" can keep staying afloat.
 
......

also, has anyone watched the price of oil this week?

let me fill you in, it dropped about 17$$ a barrel, the oil speculators are shitting their pants...

if oil dropped 17$ a barrel almost over night, just by Bush saying he wants us to drill, and doing what he can to make that a reality, then imagine what oil would do if we actually started drilling...

 
someone answer my question dammit :)

if the oil will take 10 - 20 years to get out of ANWR, why the fuck are we waiting?

we will always need oil right? like andy said, everything cannot be switched over, so why not get the oil we have in america, and hopefully by that time, the average american wont be using oil to power their every day vehicle...... so then, we use the oil that would last us an estamated 6 months (at current consumption) and use all that oil to power the industry's that will need it...

imagine a day where we could send a big "fuck off" to people like hugo chavez, and macmood, achmidingade(iran).... because america will be energy independent...

PS for all you "we cant afford to hurt the environment" crowd, think about this, China is drilling somthing like 80 miles off OUR coast, now who would you rather be drilling that oil, the "chicoms"? or Americans...

(see earlier post about america being the one to get the drilling done safe, over some whack job)

"All i'm asking for is for the playing feild to be equal and to stop playing favorites with big oil."

100% agree, but the one thing we dont need is a huge government subsidised alternative (ethonel)

i am sure you all know what we have done to the world, by having our stupid government subsidies ethonel....
 
ok, sorry for the post whoring... i stayed away from this thread, but after seeing BS like "we need to take away from those bastards at the oil company's" this thread sucked me in like a black hole...

reading news today, i found this...

"Americans are now paying more than $1 billion more for gasoline per day

than they did five years ago, according to an Oil Price Information

Service (OPIS) report Monday. In June, the world's largest oil consumer

spent about $47.38 billion on the motor fuel — nearly three times as

much as in 2003."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2008-07-07-oil-monday_N.htm

i was shocked to see this, think of all that money being pushed back into the american economy, instead, we are putting it into the economy's of people that HATE US.. (not all oil producing nations, but you know what ones im talking about.. )

also, the next time i hear, "they make to much money" consider this, assuming America spends roughly the same amount every month on oil, when you multiply 48 billion, times 12 months... you are hit with 576 BILLION DOLLARS! and that is just what America spends on oil every year, so i dont want to hear any more bitching about the oil company's having to big a bottom line, they do a shit load of business every year, so what would you expect their bottom line to look like?
 
bingo! It takes money to make money. When you die you can not take your money with you. It just keeps going. We can only hope that people with money are greedy and want to make more money. Wnat to know how they make more money? They put people to work to make them more money. When people are working, they are making money. Now, think conversely.

and that is that. :)

 
The price of oil dropped rapidly not because of proposed drilling. It had NOTHING even remotely to do with that. The price of oil dropped due to increased supply, and reduced demand and fears of further reduced demands and surplus due to the failing economy.

I do not wish to see a return to cheap oil and cheap gasoline. It would only perpetuate the situation and fail to bring about any change towards a more sustainable energy source.

The technology is here to greatly reduce our reliance on 19th century technology. The fact that it isn't being used is greatly because oil was cheap before.

Technologies such as this ... http://cleantechnica.com/2008/03/27/solar-thermal-electricity-can-it-replace-coal-gas-and-oil/comment-page-2/

have begun being put into practical use. Solar power developments are beginning to spring up in larger scale.

http://mendocoastcurrent.wordpress.com/2008/02/29/australia-thinks-big-on-solar-power/

I don't think anyone is saying to quit oil and archaic technologies outright, and cold turkey, but we can certainly begin weening ourselves off the addictive teet. Return to smaller vehicles with increased fuel mileage, utilize mass transit systems better and we would see a change for the better.

Economy-wise, the engineering, scientific, construction and maintenence jobs that alternative energy production would develop would certainly help to boost the economy.

Bottom-line, I believe the only way to reduce our dependency on foreign oil properly, is to reduce our dependency on oil overall.

 
FURTHERMORE..... PEOPLE LISTEN TO THIS PLEASE>>>

this is the same exact debate that I had in school 30 fucking years ago. Did you know that they were teaching us then that we would be out of oil now given the rates of consumption then?

The crying of wolf is really old and a lot of you with all youre smart righteousness are buying into the same crap that was being fed then. People need a purpose in life and unfortunately, oh never mind. lets revisit this subject in 30 years, shall we? :)

IMO The Enron types are the ones screwing with the price of oil.

BTW - Pickens will never see 2% let alone 20% We can't get windmills approved off our beach in the ocean. putting them on the ground? hahahaha yeah.. it will never happen, not on the scale that he wants.
 
Exactly. Old technology never dies out completely (we still use manual tools and horses right?) but its time to move on now.

I don't seen how these republicans are hating on me though and calling me a liberal hippy since all I want is a level playing feild in the open market. Is that not a right wing idea? I love the free market as long as its free but as long as big oil has its hand in with the government, it wont be a free market. Oil is/has been handy for us but its time for a change. This change though is being dilibertly stalled by old companies who want to suck as much out of us for as long as they can. How can you support being reliant on something we dont really need?

What I support:

- A fair open market where tax breaks and incentives for the energy industry are equal across the board. No more favoring oil because 'we need it'. If we give the same money to alternative energy resoruces that we give to big oil I know it wouldn't take that industry long to show the masses that we don't NEED oil as bad as we think we do.

- Reducing big oil's influence over government and global markets by refusing to give it more licensing to drill which they use as barganingchips when stalling alternative energy. We have plently of reserves right now that could supply the world just fine during this transition stage.

- Oil from ANWR is NOT the solution. There is barely anything there in comparision with the rest of the planet and the cost/benfit analysis doesnt even make it feasible. Even if you could suppliment 10% of the annual US oil demands with ANWR oil per year (which is an optimistic outlook by pro-ANWR drilling 'experts'), you're still buying 90% of you oil at global prices. You think that a slightly subsidized 10% will make a difference? It might be slightly cheaper then foreign oil but it still costs a shitload of moneyt to drill transport and upkeep its networks. So drilling in ANWR will make the 10% of foreign oil you buy feel more like 8%...sweet, you wasted a bunch of money and you'll save ~2% on the cost of oil. Happy? Worth it? Can you guys not see that this is a huge waste of time? It like trying to stop a flood after it already happened...you're trying to fix a problem too late in the game. You NEED to move on to new techs or you'll be swallowed up in your 1900's loving ways...
 
And grandpa, none of this is about "running" out of oil. It's about oil being a environmentally unsound option for mass power use.

And if you can come up with an arguement that can prove oil as the clean, enviromental choice, let's hear it.
 
You right...the world has been total static over the last 30 years with no changes in population, usages of combustion engines or changes in the natural environment. What could have possible happened between now and then that could change the argument?

What a weak point papa...

Yes, a similar issue occured during the 70's where global prices on oil skyrocketed for a BRIEF time but that was an attempt to fuck the west by the Middle East and it failed. The Embargo lasted about 1/2 year and prices were shaking for a few years after but they dropped.

How long have we been dealing with these high prices? More then 6 months i;d say. Looks like your comparision has some might big holes in it...
 
hahahaha and that is the point. You have been dealing with it for 6 months? ROFL! I remember when gas was 30 cents per gallon and my parents were flipping out when it went to 60 cents. I have been "dealing" with it for 30+ years.

My parents were so upset, that it made me exactly like you, with all my arguments about the world gonna go to hell in a hand basket, if we don't do this and we don't do that. You know what? I quit smoking pot! hahahahahaha J/K I was wrong then. We didn't go to hell.

Don't anyone get me wrong. Diversity in energy generation is a good thing and so is cheap energy.
 
first off, im not a super right winged republican and ive said that before. mabey i dont have the patience for you either.

second. give more money to make it a level playing field, i dont care. competition only drives down prices which will help. im not disagreeing with you there. im pretty sure ive never said or gone against giving money to research alternative fuels. we do need to switch over but it takes TIME. i would love to see us off oil sooner and see more hybrids, more alternative fuels of any kind. anything would be nice besides the gas hogs we all drive. and it is coming. all the major car companies right now are producing hybrids and researching for alternative fuels.

third. i am a realistic person who sees what is happening to my country right before my eyes. yeah its great that we are driving less, yeah it sucks that the oil companies control markets they ought not control and YES I AGREE we should start the transition right now, and i think we are in the early stages of that transition.

fourth. we are in a very very tricky market these days and you need to understand that, i know i do. there is no easy fix and we cannot have it only one way for now. the transition will take time and this world will have to survive on oil for that transition period to take place. YES gas prices going up will speed up the process to find alternative fuels but at the same time it will cripple our nation to points we dont want to get to. we cannot just freeze time because we fucked ourselves in the first place and now we want to switch. be realistic, open your eyes and SEE what is happening in the world around you.
 
shit, really?

haha i was talking about the last 2 pages worth of stuff i posted...

but im going to go dig around and see what you posted.. haha believe me, i am in no way perfect, and even though it might piss me off, i enjoy seeing others opinions..
 
ahhh, i fail, haha...

yeah, when i posted, i was wrong, i dug into the subject of why oil dropped so rapidly, and i was wrong.. haha
 
its bullshit, it keeps posting before i finish my post...

i agree, we do need to ween ourselves off of forgin oil, by reducing our dependency on oil overall... but at the same time, wouldnt it be great to be getting our oil from america and sending a big "fuck you guys" to the crazy oil nuts around the world, who we are currently reling to run our economy...
 
stfu about ethanol as the reason youre not getting the gas mileage your truck is advertised as having,its cause its so hard to drive so gas conservative
 
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