Do you believe in god?

i know its hard to believe that something as complex as an eyeball can have simply evolved. but actually, it has.

we had a discussion in my evolutionary theory class, where my professor explained that scientists have traced simple sequences of the mutations where the eye has formed by looking at the eyes of fishes, where they are believed to have evolved in less than 400,000 years ( i think?, you'll have to confirm that, i'm too lazy to Google it.) also, darwin argued that by inheritance of eye mutations that have adapted to environments over thousands of years, it's not too difficult to think that an eyeball evolved.

besides, wouldn't you agree it's alot more believable than some fairy tale god in the sky just creating an eyball and sticking it in your socket?
 
so what force put evolution into action? What was there before the big bang? What determined the laws of the universe that hold everything together? As far as I am concerned, the complexities of the universe could not have originated out of nothing without some higher power.
 
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeahyeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeahyeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
 
its a fact that jesus lived but the bible is complete fiction and the chritian religion is based on other religions, almost every part was adapted from another religion, for example jesus was born in march but we celebrate christmas late december because thats when pagans celebrated sol evictus or when days start to get longer
 
Seriously though, this topic gets me so excited. I really have a core belief in a much much larger higher power beyond imagination. It is why I seek out to try to experience things that are larger than myself. Try camping on a mountain top with no tent in a crazy snowstorm with 90 mile per hour winds where trees larger than 2 feet in diameter are literally blowing up at the trunks and getting knocked over all night long all around you. Look at some HUGE mountains from the top of another huge mountain. You will realize that there are things much much larger than you in the universe- thats the first step. Thats the start. It isn't an issue of creation, it is an issue of what set creation/evolution/ANY AND ALL CHANGES into motion. Jump up in the air and fall back down to earth and feel the gravity. It is so simple and so complex at the same time. Then imagine an atom- a positive nuclei and a negative electron cloud that wants with all its might to collapse in on the nuclie because of its strong attraction to its perfect opposite, and yet somehow the electrons never collode with the nuclei- they keep moving, they keep revolving. This miracle allows for complex molecules to be formed. The miracle of complex molecules alows for the miracle of life. The half-life of beryllium is so perfect that it allows for large elements to be produced in supernova explosions (All large elements- from oxygen to uranium are only formed in supernovas and larger explosions. No joke, its true.). If the half life of beryllium were any less, no carbon would ever be formed from the product of 3 helium atoms (2 helium atoms form berilium and in a few miliseconds the beryllium must be hit head on with another helium atom to form carbon). If the half life of beryllium were greater, the making of carbon would be too efficient and stars would supernova upon forming carbon and there would be nothing larger than carbon. The complexities are endless and the more we know, the more we don't know about how things in the universe work. These laws and the way things interact on an atomic level aren't a mere coincidence in my eyes- they are the product of an intellect so far beyond the bounds of our universe. And like I said in my post yesterday, I believe that it is out of love of this higher power that our universe was created with the complexities that it consists of. These complexities are conducive to love- the only objectivity amoung humanity that I have encountered. That makes life a gift of love for love.

Alright I'm out for now.
 
Think again! Here is a pic that I took on the way back from that crazy night. Yeah thats my Xterra.

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Think again! Here is a pic that was taken on the way back from that crazy night. Yeah thats my Xterra in the pic. We didn't even have a tent, just a tarp rapped around us.

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this is where we reach an impasse. all either of us has to go on now is speculation and personal experience. if anyone knew the answer to these questions, it would be difficult for religion and scientific thinking to coexist.
 
i dont know what I belelve about god, but I do know that if there is a god, or gods, that they are nothing like the western religious vew of god.
 
from what i've seen on intelligent design it lead me to believe that systems like the eye perceiving images could... not .... work at any of a more basic stage, so now if you still believe that eyes existed in animals before they "evolved" into what they are now # 1 why would they still have them and # 2 shouldn't darwins theory of natural selection have applied and wiped out the animals with this non-beneficial trait?
 
I went to a Catholic High School for 4 years, so no.

Being force-fed a bunch of crap I don't even believe in the first place just intensified the hold on my views.

Being forced to go to Mass? Getting graded on religious facts you must memorize?

God does not exist. He did not create evolution, and when you die, you are not going to heaven. Magic is NOT real and nobody can just "create" matter.
 
There is no God But Allah and Mohammed is his profit.

If you do not accet Allah, they you will be killed.

Allah hu Ahkbar!
 
I don't really get what you are saying about the eyes here. What I am getting out if this is that the animals eyes as we know them today came from animals with less evolved eyes. That makes sense. Then you say why would they still have them, and say that they should be wiped out due to natural selection. What are you talking about? The animals that todays modern animals evolved from do not exist anymore, which makes sense because they are not as fit for survival as others.
 
what im saying is that our eye can not function properly at any of a less complex stage which starts to tear threads in some evolution theories because it means the human eye couldn't have evolved so it was like it is now at the begining of the human race
 
.. didn't quite finish my thought sorry.. so that leads into intelligent design or a supreme creator that designed our eye because it couldn't have evolved
 
True that eyes are pretty complex now, but how about if they started out as an area that was just more sensitive to light. Over time that area could differentiate light from dark. The animals with this had an advantage over animals without, so the ones without died. Then those animals began to be able to make out different shapes, which over time continued to develop into the eyes that we know today. If you think about it like that and not as eyes right now appearing in your baby out of nowhere it doesn't seem that impossible.
 
exactly. eyeballs may not have begun as tools for sight and awareness, but gradually, they may have evolved into a finer, more complex part of the body. gradation is vastly important to evolutionary theory.
 
"Irreducibly complex systems appear very unlikely to be produced by numerous, successive, slight modifications of prior systems, because any precursor that was missing a crucial part could not function. Natural selection can only choose among systems that are already working, so the existence in nature of irreducibly complex biological systems poses a powerful challenge to Darwinian theory. We frequently observe such systems in cell organelles, in which the removal of one element would cause the whole system to cease functioning. The flagella of bacteria are a good example. They are outboard motors that bacterial cells can use for self-propulsion. They have a long, whiplike propeller that is rotated by a molecular motor. The propeller is attached to the motor by a universal joint. The motor is held in place by proteins that act as a stator. Other proteins act as bushing material to allow the driveshaft to penetrate the bacterial membrane. Dozens of different kinds of proteins are necessary for a working flagellum. In the absence of almost any of them, the flagellum does not work or cannot even be built by the cell."

its a lot of text but there are other ones too, check out http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/nhmag.html
 
Look at other animals, humans have extreamly good sight compared to most animals. That proves that there can be diffrent levals of evolution as far as sight goes because other animals, dogs, rats, for example have a lower leval of sight than we do. How do you explain the fact that lower evolutionary levals of humans (just one example) are know have existed, that is just a fact and you cant argue that. There is absolutly no scintific evidence that creation or "intellegent design" is an acceptable theory. The only "evidence" you have it lack of evedence on evolutions part (even though there is plenty of it) and the Bible.
 
scaroll im not saying that evolution didn't occur im saying taht there are things that could not have evolved because as they are today, they could not have functioned at any of a lower, less complex level, which leads me to believe that in the begining we didnt all evolve from chemicals or however you think evolution started
 
I dont see how because eyes, according to you, couldnt function at a lower leval we couldnt have evolved out of simple organisms. It is posible, and a fact, that early life didnt have eyes. THe first life forms were just simple single cell organisms similar to algae. Then that evolved into, eventually, fish then to amphibeans. Then there were land reptiles and then mammels and birds. This whole process took millions of years which is a longer time than most people think that it 100,000 years 100 times. Think about it.
 
yes this is true but i dont see what that has to do with the fact that it is the same God

neither is the God in which people believe, Jesus is the son of God and Mohammed was a prophet
 
Jesus IS God, too. according to basic christian tenets, there are three forms, and one entity that manifest god.

and yes, muhhamed was a prophet, but the fact that islam and christianity are declared as two separate, specific religions says alot about whether they worship the same god.
 
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