Canadian health system more efficient than the one in the U.S.: study

Well we could look at just few things, mainly being the aging baby boomer population and the fact that Canada is dotted with very rural communities up North and in the territories that require the same medical needs as other towns, cities in metro Canada.
 
Explain how Auto prices have gone up as high as they have...

Think about it this way... Your standard Laptop today costs what? 500$?

Well.. today, your standard laptop is also about the equivalent to what an abacus would have been in 1975...

 
Yeah, and in 1975 you could have bought a brand new car for under 3 grand... and it wasn't built in mexico.

Shouldn't cars today just be like... groceries or something at that rate?
 
you act as though healthcare has stayed at the same consistent quality over the last 3 years. who pays for the research? for the new technology? for the increase in availability (probably the biggest change in the last 3 years)? and just a couple pages ago you were the one saying i thought this shit was free...
 
In 2006, the last time a Canadian census was taken the average age recorded was 40 years of age, there were over 4 million people aged 65+, that translates to 1 in 7 Canadians back then. Since then that number is projected to further increase in 2011.
 
Point being that the population's getting older, and therefore harder to maintain. Costs go up because more people are using the services they are given.

DUH.
 
but like i said, it's not just technology. sure, if that was the only thing you were paying for, then yeah, it might get cheaper. how about the constantly (unnecessarily)rising cost of educating these people? does that one sink in? you're not paying for a new MRI machine. you're paying for 100 new MRI machines, and they're better than the last one, and they have more qualified people operating them, and they need more space to house the machines, etc. it's not so simple as "well my tv is cheap so healthcare should be too." your analogies are actually getting worse the more of them you come up with.
 
well, since the price ISN'T falling as you think it ought to be (except for me teehee yay Canada), maybe you could look into that, instead of whatever you're trying to do here by comparing doctors to flatscreens and MRI's to laptops.
 
Yes, but for said efficient doctors, their services cost more on the whole... and the more efficient methods that are being taught are costing more and more to teach.

I dont think they should be falling steadily on the whole. I feel they should be fluctuating and remaining around a nominal pricepath.

Overall though, a lot of healthcare services HAVE fallen. How much was Asprin worth in 1940? How much was allergy medicine in the 1990's? How much are all of these medicines worth now on the whole? Same thing goes for other things. Yeah... those MRI machines from 1996 still take MRI's... but now, they can buy 10 MRI machines for the cost of 2 in 1999, and they are FAR better... theres just more and more demand for healthcare, so the budget for it all increases.
 
This is exactly why health care costs are rising in Canada accompanied with my earlier point. In 2004 the federal government has been dumping even more money into the system to modernize it, like making sure every hospital has a few MRI machines rather than 1 and more efficient processing and patient managing systems. An almost medical renaissance if you will, in this case you have to spend money to save money in the long run.

The closest major hospital to me just got a brand new ward built and 3 new MRI machines to reduce wait times and efficiency, they dont just fabricate those machines in Leroy's maintenance shed out back.
 
Were good? or are good.

I feel both have their place, absolutely. Poor people dying everywhere because they cant get healthcare? That's not good... Old people who have retired not able to receive medical benefits now that they don't have the medical benefits that their job provided to them? Absolutely holds its place in my opinion.

Medicare has kinda gone out of hand though. Not every single old person needs a goddamn hoverround scooter... Blame that on the aging voters IMO..
 
well you could read my last few posts... or Proletariat's... or something. or you could go do some research for yourself, i tend to do that when the price of the things i normally pay for goes up. like 2 large BLT's at Tim Horton's is now $14, and i yelled at the kid in the drive through because he couldn't tell me why it's suddenly more expensive, so i didn't buy the BLT's and drove to Wendy's instead.
 
Medicare and Medicaid are far from perfect, but hell it was a step in the good direction.

Before that you were the laughing stock of the World for not having an universal health care. It was just shameful being that much behind everyone else in that regard.
 
I think the demand for healthcare alone makes the availability of it increase... and that causes the price to increase.

if you put profit motive on top of these two things, then the price increases even more.
 
Psh. America is still the laughing stock of the world for not having universal healthcare...

And Medicaid has been cut down to the point where nobody can get much out of it.
 
hey, now it's not just the healthcare, i mean healthcare isn't that funny. it's a lot of other things too.
 
i'm supposed to move to SF in a year, but at the same time... well i keep having nightmares about Republicans.
 
Woozy, just so I wrap my head around why you're so butthurt about ti:

Are you for or against an universal healthcare system?
 
Lol. If you move to SF, you wont ever have to deal with republicans. SF is one of the most liberal cities in the world, bud. It will make Calgary look like Woozyland (or whatever country it would be if he came to power..)
 
after re-reading this entire thread, I am still confused about why Woozy is arguing .Like there is a SLIM SLIM chance that private competition would be more effective than universal health care. To my knowledge the US is the only developed country in the world that uses private healthcare and they pay far more than any other country. Should that alone not prove that competition would not drop the prices lower than a universal healthcare?
 
In his opinion, if everything was free-market, then the market would be so competitive to drop prices below competitors, that it would all end up super cheap.

This would be great if... it were actually fucking plausible...

He's living in his libertarian dreamworld where all humans have good intentions, and therefore, compete fairly... haha...

 
in his view, prices would drop to the point where companies could make maximum profits. people won't pay prices above what the they value the product at so companies will set the price there. good intentions have nothing to do about it.

 
Libertarianism is based on the notion that all people are inherently good... and that they will compete fairly as business competetors.

Guess what. Life rule 101: Shit aint fair. and with that said theres no way that there wont be some massive problems with a completely free market. There WILL be corruption. There WILL be rules broken.

It's been tried before. It failed. HARD. Drop the free market shit, because it aint happening... or... it at least isn't happening without godawful consequences.
 
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Healthcare in America is a failure in general. At least Obama's tried to do something with it...

Besides.. it's barely kicked in yet.
 
Many Americans are under the delusion that they have “the best health care system in the world,” as President Bush saw it, or provide the “best medical care in the world,” as Rudolph Giuliani declared. That may be true at many top medical centers. But the disturbing truth is that this country lags well behind other advanced nations in delivering timely and effective care.

I think the best examples of excellent health care systems are the Netherlands and Switzerland. Both have pioneered market-based universal health care. Both cover all their citizens using private insurers, and they do so for much less cost — 10 percent of gross domestic product for the Dutch and 12 percent for Switzerland, compared with 17 percent in the United States, where nearly 50 million people are still uninsured."

And doctors are paid more in the Netherlands on average then in the United States, even tough people pay less for health care (don't know about Swiss.)

Be to be fair, the health care systems in The Netherlands and Switzerland have been in effect for quite some time.

Intriguingly, HCP President Johan Hjertqvist urged the Obama administration in the US to take their cue from the Dutch in healthcare reform: "It is justified to say that the Dutch have the best healthcare system in Europe. When the Obama healthcare policy team looks at Europe for inspiration, it seems to be the right system to study."

 
Not only should Americans look at Switzerland healthcare for inspiration, they should look at the political and educational systems as well... And everything else.

... but oohh nooo they're a bloody European socialist comunist evil atheist soccer playing country !!!1!1!!
 
This, this and THIS.

Woozy, I have no damn clue what crawled up your ass, but I really don't think you understand the morals, needs and attitudes of people who have lived on universal health care all their lives and are very happy and content about it.

 
Because it's America, and our government is easily corrupted by those who have lots of money and run big businesses. DUH.
 
The program's doomed to have a lot of problems I'm afraid. It's full of flaws and there's no doubt about that.

But it's not a universal healthcare system, really... so honestly what does that have to do with anything?
 
But to answer this directly, it's probably not going to reduce healthcare costs for large companies at all, so why wouldn't they want to avoid it?
 
No you need a government/politicians that isn't getting a shitloads of money and other benefits from the biggest companies and richest asses. In most countries they way american politics is run would be considered corruption..
 
The entire system needs an overhaul bud.. as in.. it needs to turn into a single unified national healthcare service program IE: universal healthcare system.

As it is right now, it's in this weird, fucked up system where only extremely poor, extremely old, or extremely well off and powerful (the same dudes in Washington that vote on this shit) get healthcare paid for through tax dollars. Whereas the rest of us here are forced to bear the brunt of all of that... and its tearing this ship apart.

 
I dont see any effect it will actually have on any of this in the long run...

Ultimately, it just means more of the government's budget will be allocated to healthcare services, and stupid bullshit like pre existing condition stuff is outlawed.
 
No, it's astonishing to me to see how dense you are in seeing the difference between something like Healthcare and emergency services, and a luxury commodity like a fucking laptop computer...

price competition when it comes to luxury goods makes sense. It's a WANT not a NEED.

price competition when it comes to services that allow you to make it on time to your job, or keep you healthy or safe if shit hits the fan does NOT have any benefits because they are NEEDS not WANTS.

but you will continue not to understand the difference between those two for arguments sake so what's the point here eh?
 
Pretty sure healthcare costs for employers were going to skyrocket no matter what happened there bud...

Remember. The US's system SUCKS. You even said it. the healthcare package that Obama championed is at least a step in the right direction towards what needs to ultimately happen though. That's the benefit of it...
 
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