Canadian health system more efficient than the one in the U.S.: study

Proletariat.

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Postmedia News Aug 4, 2011 – 6:31 PM ET

By Bradley Bouzane[/b]

The Canadian health-care system may be plagued by countless stories of lengthy wait times and crowded emergency rooms, but a new study shows the amount of time and money spent on administrative duties is a fraction of that required by the U.S. system.

The study from the University of Toronto and New York’s Cornell University says U.S. doctors pay an average of nearly $83,000 each for administrative costs associated with insurance documents. In Canada, for doctors based in Ontario that cost is significantly less at just over $22,200.

In addition, nurses, medical assistants and other hospital staff dedicate nearly 21 hours per week to filing insurance papers and other duties required to push insurance claims through. For the same duties in Ontario, just 2.5 hours are spent each week.

The findings of the study, published in the August edition of the journal Health Affairs, show that the “single payer” health-insurance system in Canada is largely responsible for the difference between countries.

It said the need for many U.S. patients to carry coverage from multiple insurance providers leads to the more demanding time commitments to file the appropriate documents.

Dr. Dante Morra, the study’s lead author, said the time savings felt in Canada go back to help the people who need it most.

“When we look at health care in Canada … there’s a lot of areas for improvement, but at the end of the day, sometimes we have to sit back and realize there is good access to care for Canadians,” said Morra, a Toronto doctor.

“There are a lot of benefits to the way we have structured our system and one of those benefits is this almost non-existent cost associated with dealing with payment. That time is directly invested into caring for patients.”

The study, which surveyed physicians on how much time was spent by themselves and other staff on filing insurance documents, said that if U.S. doctors were able to reel in the administrative costs to a level on par with those polled in Ontario, it would result in an annual savings of more than $27 billion for the American health-care system.

Morra said the high financial and time costs can often deter U.S. doctors from working in some medical environments. He noted, however, that the current political climate in the U.S. will likely not allow for a significant overhaul to allow for a streamlining of paperwork to allow doctors more time doing what they do best.

“As physicians, we know how to submit the claims … it’s simple … but it’s something we in Canada don’t have to worry about,” he said.

“A lot of people (in the U.S.) actually choose not to do primary care and office-based work because the hassle factor is so high it’s unbearable, and they feel they’re spending very little time with their patients.

“This is a benefit of the way we’ve organized health care in Canada and it’s one of the reasons why health care is cheaper here and we get better results because we don’t have to deal with these multiple health plans.”

Postmedia News[/i]

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But because i live in the US, i can have my insurance pay for my Shoulder surgery to be done next week...and done by the most talented surgeons in the world, because they are overpayed.

If i lived in canadia, my surgery would be in december, and done by a dude who is half as smart because all the smart guys realized that being a docter in canadia isnt all that lucrative, and there efforts would be better rewarded in another carreer.

Moral of the story: When it comes to my health, I am fine paying for the best.
 
well duh. I knew that without a fancy study. Switzerland's is the best though. I know a family from there that moved to the US and were like what the hell is going on here/
 
The best doctors aren't in it for the money.. The smartest human beings realize you don't need a shit load of money to spend on a shitload of stuff you don't need.
 
Except I have heard of a lot of doctors that don't want to go to the states because even though they would get paid much more there malpractice insurance is quite ridiculous, thus they are better off in Canada.
 
the best surgeons tend to have a similar mentality to athletes. they are cocky, they are confident and they want to be well payed for their skillz. They are there for the money, the glory, and the bitches...initially, then they end up realizing that it actually does feel good to help people too.

The general practitioners are the ones who tend to be their purely for patients. And i could not care less if they are halfway intelligent or not, as long as they can write my referalls to my surgeons(actual life savers) and write my scripts.

 
Do you really feel the need to start a shitstorm about Canada VS USA? I don't know if your overexagerating by alot. Or just flat out stupid. Then the by a dude who is half as smart. You most likely have a pretty basic surgery where doesn't matter if the best surgeon in the world does it or a normal doctor. Seriously.. Btw I would rather it be free and get done just fine then the best surgeon ever do the exact same thing and pay a shit ton...
 
it practically is free though. i mean, sure, i could have spent that money buying, oh, i dunno, something else that's fucking cheap, maybe an energy drink or two... but i'd rather just have healthcare.
 
damn i must have paid $4000 for healthcare. oh no wait i didn't, because that's not how it works.
 
woozy this is one argument where you might as well just leave. the US's health care system is extremely expensive but leaves millions of people uninsured. whether or not you think we should change our system, you cannot deny that
 
i said "practically fre," as in pennies out of my paycheques, which is totally worth it. i'm not some selfish fuck who thinks the only health that matters is his own.
 
well when i had my shoulder done(frayed labrum, torn labrum, bone spurs, scar tissue, tighten shoulder capsule), i had it done by one of the cockier people ive ever meet, Dr. Warren King. He is the team surgeon for the Sharks, Raiders, USA soccer, and all the high profile athletes in the bay area. In fact because my insurance helps me pay i got called in to see him while nnamdi asomugha waited to see him next. that surgery is really, really fucking complex and because he did a flawless job, i can throw as hard as ever, and feel great.

over in canada, can you request to be worked on by the best in the field almost immediately?
 
One of the best knee surgeons in Canada who happens to be Shane McConkeys brother can be found at the hospital in my town...
 
and one of the best oyster places in north dakota can be found where my cousin lives...doesnt mean its good. jokes

but seriously, if you lived 50 miles away, and blew your knee what would be the likelyhood you would get him to do your surgery within the next 3 weeks?
 
well if it was $500 a paycheque... but it's not. and i'd say the price is pretty on point

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oops

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see, i'd complain about the price, if i was a dumb fuck, as you've accused me of being.
 
that's quite irrelevant, as long as you're not crossing provincial borders you can very easily set up your surgery at a different hospital, and even if you are crossing into a different province it isn't very hard to do.

I sleep well without the burden of allowing the horror stories I've heard that happen to patients in the US. That's all I can really say about the subject.
 
no, i pay much more than you think i think. firstly, i'm not poor, so the amount that i pay ($917-ish) means next to nothing to me. secondly, even if i was poor, i'd be getting it for free. so yeah, it's practically free, and you jelly, cause you paying like $3372, even though more of your GDP goes toward healthcare than us.
 
how could i possible pay more than what's taken out of my paycheque? are you insinuating that the government comes into my house at night and steals my money when i'm not looking? no, every tax i pay is on paper and it doesn't add up to enough to worry me in the least bit. not to mention i get a considerable amount of that inconsiderable amount back when i file my returns.
 
Please, allow me to be the one relishing in excitement, for it is I, a simple, humble Canadian, who truly takes pleasure in the ultimate honour of being corrected by a hard-working, world-inspiring, god-fearing American such as yourself.

Oh, shit, I'm so sorry, that would be honor for you wouldn't it
 
you don't read anything i write, do you? i JUST SAID, i know what comes out of my pay, and i know where it goes, and it doesn't bother me, because i'm not poor, and i'm not selfish. get that through your head. they aren't STEALING my money, i'm GIVING it to them, willingly, for a service. i couldn't give a fuck how much it costs because it's healthcare for me and everyone else in the country, and it's still less than what you pay.
 
IT'S NOT HIDDEN. WE KNOW. WE KNOW. THEY AREN'T HIDING IT. DO YOU REALLY THINK EVERY CANADIAN IS JUST SITTING HERE SAYING "GEEZ I SURE AM GLAD SANTA CLAUSE IS PAYING FOR MY HEALTHCARE"? REALLY? I KNOW HOW MUCH I PAY, I KNOW HOW MUCH THE GOVERNMENT PAYS (WITH MY MONEY), AND AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, IT'S WORTH IT.

 
i never said it was free, i said it was cheap. you haven't read a single thing i've said in the last 6 posts so i'm quitting on you.
 
I have yet to hear a ANY Canadian complain that about the money that our employers give towards health care. No one in Canada cares, we make enough to live a decent and privileged life with privileged social programs like universal health care in one of the best countries on this planet. The only person who seems to care is you and you aren't even Canadian.
 
nobody in canada actually thinks anything is free, we're not as dumb as you think. we just like to call things "free" when we pay a fair price for them.
 
yeah that's what i would say if i was American and paying whatever it is you guys pay. also if i gave a fuck about money that i was gonna spend anyways.
 
woozy, you seem to be saying how we're actually all paying just as much anyone else for our health care. In the past 2 years alone I've had the equivalent in US of about $80,000-100,000 in surgeries/other medical visits. I don't even think I've made that much in my lifetime. I owe nothing. Feel good man.
 
no, you enlightened me in no way, you just failed to see that i knew that already the entire time. MY point of view is that, i would NEVER see any of that money anyways, seeing as how over $3000 of it never even touches my paycheque, so i can't really be spending money that's not mine in the first place anyways. YOUR point of view is that, even though none of that money would ever touch my paycheque, it's still mine. we're both right, we just have different ways of seeing the same thing. i see myself as only spending $917, because it's the $917 i would get if i wasn't paying for healthcare. you see me as spending $4500, even though most of that doesn't ever come into my possession before being put toward my healthcare.

and either way, that money goes toward healthcare (maybe not my healthcare specifically because i rarely even use healthcare), and i don't see a problem with that. i'd rather see it go towards healthcare than anything else.

 
yeah, what i meant was that, if it's not being given to me, then it's not mine, and i don't have a right to care about it. but i am glad we finally understand each other.
 
Like what woozy, invest it in gold and contribute to absolutely nothing productive? Only draining capital from one source to another to be mishandled by someone else? Or be like 95% of Americans and spend it on some sort of excess material good that will either rot in their basement or needs gasoline to work?

If the premise you are trying to argue is that of the homo economicus you should probably think about how America's consumers spend their money. Our general population is so naive to what we buy and there's ultimately a niche for everything, which is sad but true.

All I got from Krob's post was that in terms of medical bills $4,500 is extremely cheap. Which someone like me who has broken a lot of bones knows that is a lucky bill compared to what any surgery would be here. If I was in between jobs I would have been royally fucked.
 
bahahaha.

Oh woozy, you crack me up dude...

Here's the thing bud. Say you took that money, and put it towards a cheaper plan, then got super sick. Do you expect everyone else to be on the hook for it? or do you just like taking chances that you're not going to get cancer a month after you change to a plan that gives you no coverage of it.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather pay up a few more dollars out of my taxes and have you be alive than dead. I know you might not give a shit about another person so much, but dude... I don't want you to get cancer, not be able to pay for it, and die just because you want to be a risk taker.
 
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