Campbell, oh Campbell.

Nice bashing of 9thward especially after that spam kid who was posting a gajillion threads about how good it was. I agree with you that we need big companies to run skiing. Yet we need new ideas, too. Line is soon to become a major corporation, too, and what will we do then? Everyone buy from liberty or 9thward or armada? I don't think so. Everybody progresses the sport tenfold when they create a new idea, matter how big or small the company. Even if the giant corporations only put a little money into the skiing, it's about producing a product that progresses the company and its products themself.

I don't believe in a company that only creates freestyle products. It's gotta be all-around to be a true ski company, "core" or not.
 
bye the way unless you mass-order the materials, and get a bunch of profit, making a single ski costs a hell of a lot more than $30. Try $300+, with a horrible ski press.
 
never mind. It still doesn't cost any less than 100 even for the cheapest skis. for ninthward it probably costs a lot more because they're not too big.

Why am I saying this? Whatever.
 
U need to realize that what u think is bulk probably isn't even close. Ninthwards bulk compared to salomons bulk for their jib skis isn't even in the same ballpark. so what he was trying to say is that there is going to be way less profit margin unless 9th ward makes their skis more expensive. im not even taking any sides in this, i just think he was making a valid point.
 
You know, I think this is a really good point that eveyone should take a CLOSE look at.

The huge competitions require tonnes of money. So does poorboyz, and the rest of the film companies.

Here's my question, and I'm not saying I am sure which is the proper answer:

Point in question: Are big ski companies giving back or not?

One side: You must spend money on core skis, because the core brands will give back to the sport. Evil big companies just blow it on racing.

Other side: Big companies put in 100x the amount of money as small ones. Funds from racing departments are starting to trickle into our sport.

Take line for example. How come when the company grows it all of a sudden starts to be a big evil corporation? You're listening to too much indie music, where if you actually become a successful artist, you're shit.

Larger companies can give more back to the industry than smaller ones. THey have a whole different ballpark of resources to provide.

The other part that people forget, is it's totally fine for companies like ninthward and Salomon to co-exist. Ninthward will be the cool little cult company that will make 400 pairs of skis per year, and everyone who rides them will love it. Ninthward is successful, and so is the bigger guy. Everyone is happy.
 
CAN.... but do they? and do they even give back 100% of the money they earn from our niche? I'm curious because if they do, then sick, but I have a feeling they don't.
 
Mm tasty. My words exactly on the co-exsisting. People who buy into ninthward and what they are seem to really love their skis, but the larger companies that puts a lot of the "big-company powers", and in turn money, into freeskiing... help out the sport with comps like Colin said, and also make a pretty respectable product too(some more than others...)
 
campell disses these companies but doesnt see that hes not doing anything himself. i dont see ninthward putting on comps. my brother rides for ninthward and his skis fell apart way before mine and i ride TM'S! my trouble makers lasted a full season but i do have other pairs for stuff liek urban, rocks, and pipe. but still before he talks shit he needs to make sure his company can back it up. and i dont care about small companies and supporting them. if im gonna buy a product, IM GONNA BUY THE BEST ONE OUT THERE FOR THE CHEAPEST PRICE! im not gonna support a small company whos product is the same price as a large company's product but a lower quality. progression in the ski industry with new technology will only come when companys are driven for SALES! this means that when people arent buying their product, they make the newest and best product they can to gain these sales again. when sales are high, they dont change their product. lets take dynastar for example. dynastar didnt sell very much of the concepts as compared to other companies at the time. then dynastar built the trouble maker to gain sales with new technology. for 3 years the tm was VERY POPULAR then other companies had better skis with stronger edges. hardly anyone bought the white troublemakers cuz they were the same thing with bad edges. dynastar now has the new trouble maker with reinforced edges. im gonna go out on a limb and say that dynastars sales are gonna go up next year.
 
Doug, I don't think the point of the "big corporate company" criticisms is based so much on size as on focus. Imagine for a moment if everyone who bought twins bought Armadas or Lines, and there WAS no scratch, foil, PE, Karma, etc. The resulting profits would probably end up making Line and Armada into fairly big companies capable of producing even larger volumes to make MORE profit, and sponsoring events (like, say, YGO)... and yet none of that money would go off to racing or to developing intermediate carving sticks or rentals or whatever. So there would be no criticism of them not being "core" anymore; you can be "core" and huge, as long as you're dedicated to the "core" market.

For using the word "core" three times in one sentence, I shall now commit seppuku. Goodbye, cruel ski industry...
 
that is right, the problem is the small copanies don't have the money to make the changes because every change takes a bunch of money in R & D, and if no one buys theirs skis they don't have the capital to make changes (like the big companies do form other sales). That is why you have to support them, because if you don't, they'll never have the money to make the better products.
 
This has been mentioned but needs to be stressed, I think...

There have been a couple of people to post threads like this one now, and all I can say is, right or wrong, at least Campbell puts his name in the headline over his own opinions. How about people actually stand behind what they say instead of hiding behind an alias, not to mention ripping off another alias on here who happened to "be somebody" in the industry in an attempt to look important. It's pathetic. If you can't attach your name to what you try to propogate, don't bother saying it.
 
Fucking imitator piece of shit. I'll bite your fucking nuts off, asshole. If you want to steal my name you have to at least give me a carrot first, cocksniffer.

I'm the only lilhorsey
 
great points, everybody wants to be big, Armada,line, 4 frnt didn't start up to sell a couple pairs of skis. We are no longer a real core sport, NS is 50000 +, skiing is huge these days. None of this takes away from these smaller companies, they aren't going to make shitty skis when they make more money.
 
I agree with what mr. bishop here is trying to say. it's hard to say how much money can be put back into the ski industry. Big companies definitely have a lot of money that they can put back into the ski industry. Even if a company like Salomon puts 10% of its total profit or revenue back into the ski industry, that's almost as mych as ninthward can contribute.
 
your an idiot.. the one pair of skis had a mounting defect you dumb shit.. the other skis i have have no probelm whatsoever, no cracked edges no nothing, and ive been hitting urban with them.. ninthwards do hold up, and very well
 
at least they supported him up until now and through everything he's been through...but damn. shitty move.
 
I am not even going to comment on the article. ...

However on the internet vs magazine advertising:

There are different goals and objectives for adverting. Direct sales, general branding, minimizing post-purchase dissonace and a whole lot more reasons.

Companies use different medias to address these different goals and objectives. Most use an plan that uses different campaigns in different media to address their overall plan.

When you are smaller you obviously have to be way more careful on how you divy up your marketing/advertising budget because the 'pie' you are working with is obviously smaller and is a larger percentage of your cash flow.

Sometimes what's important is to have a kid really fall in love with your brand and rip a cool picture out of a magazine that just happens to have your logo on it and put it on their wall and look at it every night when they are supposed to be doing their homework. You see a lot of kids printing out online banner ads and putting them on their wall?

That's not to say that internet advertising doesen't work and shouldn't be part of an overall marketing plan (my degree is in technology related marketing) but my point is really this... Its hard to judge where a company should be advertising unless you are privy to their business plan, marketing plan and ad budgets... And obviously your view is a little biased.
 
wow dude I dont agree with you much but that is very true. so What is it Campbell, K2 isnt core? Even thoug plake jumped those 210 sticks of 60 footer back in the day as well as morrison hucking huge backs of 80 footers. Campbells interview was bullshit. Ninthward is shit.
 
Do any of you, as skiers, owe anything to any company, especially if you don't personally know them? Aren't you really looking for a ski that fits your personal skiing style?

If J Levinthal bought you dinner and invited you to an event you would probably feel some sort of personal preferance for his company. You might ignore what skis are on sale and just buy his because you personally support him and his company.

Aside from that, why would any of you feel any sort of obligation to support a company? I ski three different brands right now. No one from K2 came and bought beer for me all night, or represented what I thought about the industry, but I still ride my Fugitives because they're still together after two seasons of thrashing. My Motherships float great in the pow and I like em' so I keep riding them. If 9 makes a cheap park ski that rides well I'll buy them when my Fugi's finally break. I won't buy them because of something Campbell said in an interview asking kids to choose his company over others.

It's really funny listening to the factors kids consider when purchasing skis. If you know members of the company and choose to help support your friend's company that's one thing. Remember you probably don't know any of these people and you are buying SKIS, not an image. Buy what YOU want. Try to demo as much as you can. It's what's under your feet when your on the mountain that's going to matter, not whether their president or CEO feels a certain way about an issue.

That's my 2c. Please flame accordingly.
 
^^for alot of people, skiing is about the image Its sad but kinda true. But I agree with you, sort of, see because if I don't agree with a companies stand point then it discourages me to buy them.
 
i didnt read all the replies and what not, but little horsey 2, while you make a few valid points, for the most part what you state is crap
 
he says he's broke without new skis... and I just pointed out how he ruined the new pair he had already, and hwo that wasn't a good idea.
 
people, first you must realize that "core" companies do not give 100% of their profits back into our sport. No one has ever said that and that is not expected. So who ever said something about that before this get that out of your mind.

Second, the whole dealio with small, independent companies is that they have a more direct line from you, the kids, or their athletes to the manufacturing and in the end they will make a better product than a bigger company. Companies like 9 and Line, and Armada will work with one skier and listen to everything he has and make it ( the Rookies w/ bamboo, Elizabeth with all its craziness, the ANT, a 191cm 2x4 twin?). shit like that doesnt get done by big companies.

Sure you may not want to buy from a small company because you are worried about the quality. Now, i would say most small companies are close or equal to the rest of the field, hell some are made by the rest of the field. These companies will only get better and they usually have a much better warranty system.

The thing is is if you support these companies now, they will have the money to make products better than volkl and the big ugys in a few years, and since they will actually stray from the norm and get creative and listen, they will make a way better designed product too. Lets face it, park/freestyle skiing is a fuck load different from all mountain, powder, or racing. You need people who live and breathe park/freestyle who are constantly asking, lets say tanner or pollard, "what is your dream ski". they make true promodels. none of this hey dumont you get a ski, its actually the same as the 1080 but we are gonna rush the graphics so they suck, and we dont care if you think they suck because its your promodel now and you'll get paid.

Its the same thing Tony was saying about farming. Do you buy the cheapest brand name produce or do you shop local. Sure buy the big name, support companies like Con-Agra who buy up family farms, pay everyone minimum wage, use excessive amounts of harsh chemicals, and destroy local farming communities, all the while giving you a cheap (shitty) product that will not improve because they dont need to improve it.

Or you could shop local, pay the extra little bit now and help get rid of the big companies ( its only expensive because they have to raise the price because con-agra has a choke hold on the market and since they cant sell as much to cheap bastards like you, they have to make more off that one piece of lettuce). once the local farmers can take back the market you will notice that the food is a much better product. they will not have to jack their prices up anymore. so in the end for short term suffering ( paying more for a few years) you get nearly the same price for a way better product.

and that is the exact same as with the ski industry.
 
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