Boa has entered the chat….

14570793:PartyBullshiit said:
You keep saying this and it may be true for your foot but it is not true across the board. The boa was for a fact harder for me to step into than the buckle version side by side. Foot shape will have a lot to do with this.

secondly I am not the only person to have this reaction. Here’s a direct quote from a reviewer. They’ve not been the only one to mention harder entry.

“Additionally, since the BOA cable doesn’t completely open like the buckles do, there’s a touch more resistance from an entry perspective. For skiers that have had a difficult time getting boots on in the past, this is something to consider. I didn’t find it to be a deal-breaker in the least, but it is noticeable.”

others mileage may vary but to say across the board they are not harder to get into is just not true.
https://www.skiessentials.com/Chairlift-Chat/2024-salomon-s-pro-supra-120-boa-ski-boot-review
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What boots were you comparing side by side? The same exact boot but one with buckles and one with BOA? As far as I am aware, only Atomic and Fischer are using the same mold for both closure systems. Salomon isn't and I believe the buckle versions of the K2 are also a different mold series- Tom let me know if that's not the case.

That reviewer of the Salomon S/Pro Supra BOA boot can't say that the Supra is harder to put on due to the BOA system because they don't have the same boot with buckles to run the comparison against. It doesn't exist. The S/Pro Supra BOA might actually be harder to put on vs. the previous generation S/Pro with buckles or other boots in its category, but it's not an apples to apples comparison. Different mold geometries and different plastic thicknesses are at play, not just a difference in closure systems.

Now, can a brand spec the wrong cable length and cause some issues regarding step-in? Yes, absolutely possible. But if there is ample cable in the system, it shouldn't be getting in the way of anything. But this would be a spec issue, not one related to the BOA system itself being the culprit.

To make things even more murky, every ski boot brand will face plastic hardness tolerances from the plastic manufacturers. You can easily get a boot that is between 7-10% stiffer or softer from batch to batch in the same model of boot. The harder the plastic, the more difficult the step-in.

All I'm saying is that there lots of variables at play when comparing the step-in of one boot to another. You need to eliminate as many variables from the equation as possible to truly know what is causing what. In the case of Atomic, barring a production error or spec error, there shouldn't be a difference between the step-in of the BOA vs. the buckle version of the same boot.

**This post was edited on Dec 6th 2023 at 1:44:21pm
 
14570874:onenerdykid said:
What boots were you comparing side by side? The same exact boot but one with buckles and one with BOA? As far as I am aware, only Atomic and Fischer are using the same mold for both closure systems. Salomon isn't and I believe the buckle versions of the K2 are also a different mold series- Tom let me know if that's not the case.

That reviewer of the Salomon S/Pro Supra BOA boot can't say that the Supra is harder to put on due to the BOA system because they don't have the same boot with buckles to run the comparison against. It doesn't exist. The S/Pro Supra BOA might actually be harder to put on vs. the previous generation S/Pro with buckles or other boots in its category, but it's not an apples to apples comparison. Different mold geometries and different plastic thicknesses are at play, not just a difference in closure systems.

Now, can a brand spec the wrong cable length and cause some issues regarding step-in? Yes, absolutely possible. But if there is ample cable in the system, it shouldn't be getting in the way of anything. But this would be a spec issue, not one related to the BOA system itself being the culprit.

To make things even more murky, every ski boot brand will face plastic hardness tolerances from the plastic manufacturers. You can easily get a boot that is between 7-10% stiffer or softer from batch to batch in the same model of boot. The harder the plastic, the more difficult the step-in.

All I'm saying is that there lots of variables at play when comparing the step-in of one boot to another. You need to eliminate as many variables from the equation as possible to truly know what is causing what. In the case of Atomic, barring a production error or spec error, there shouldn't be a difference between the step-in of the BOA vs. the buckle version of the same boot.

**This post was edited on Dec 6th 2023 at 1:44:21pm
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Yes I tried on both k2’s in buckle and boa. Same boot.

I also tried on the atomic and Salomon but did not try on the buckle version of those as they just didn’t fit well for me from the start.

Again I completely hear what you are saying but as mentioned many times I’m not the only one who’s had issues with getting into boas.

for someone who harps so much on peoples foot shape and why fitting is so important I’m kind of shocked you’re trying to say boa isn’t harder across the board. That just isn’t the case. Feet shape matters. Just to point that even more my left foot is slightly harder to get into boots than my right. And that’s across the board boot wise for me. Because of foot shape. so I’m glad you don’t have any issues getting into boa but I do. As well as others. So for me personally. Yes boa is harder to get into than buckles.
 
14570886:PartyBullshiit said:
Yes I tried on both k2’s in buckle and boa. Same boot.

I also tried on the atomic and Salomon but did not try on the buckle version of those as they just didn’t fit well for me from the start.

Again I completely hear what you are saying but as mentioned many times I’m not the only one who’s had issues with getting into boas.

for someone who harps so much on peoples foot shape and why fitting is so important I’m kind of shocked you’re trying to say boa isn’t harder across the board. That just isn’t the case. Feet shape matters. Just to point that even more my left foot is slightly harder to get into boots than my right. And that’s across the board boot wise for me. Because of foot shape. so I’m glad you don’t have any issues getting into boa but I do. As well as others. So for me personally. Yes boa is harder to get into than buckles.
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Just Fyi although they look similar our boa and buckle boots are not the same. We designed the boa boot from the ground up for boa rather than trying to make a shell work for buckles and boa. We thought it was really important to build a boa boot and then keep our existing buckle boots as we do not believe you can have both closure systems on the same boot and get the best from both systems.
 
14570898:tomPietrowski said:
Just Fyi although they look similar our boa and buckle boots are not the same. We designed the boa boot from the ground up for boa rather than trying to make a shell work for buckles and boa. We thought it was really important to build a boa boot and then keep our existing buckle boots as we do not believe you can have both closure systems on the same boot and get the best from both systems.
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I’ve understood that before I made this thread. I did an insane amount of research prior to even getting a chance to try them on the first time. I’ve watched all the blister videos from the summit event from each manufacturer regarding their new lineups and what was new etc. I didn’t just jump on board because it looked cool.

my general point was I tried both the standard buckle and boa 130 recon on side by side, and for my feet the boa is harder. Again I’m only speaking to my feet.

I did let my gf try my boots on as well as we wear the same size, and for her personally it was harder to get into the boa than her current rossignol alltrack.

i can absolutely see why some would have zero issue regardless of boa or not. I can also fully understand why myself and others have a harder time getting in boa. It’s not one or the other.
 
14570886:PartyBullshiit said:
Yes I tried on both k2’s in buckle and boa. Same boot.
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14570898:tomPietrowski said:
Just Fyi although they look similar our boa and buckle boots are not the same.
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14570905:PartyBullshiit said:
I’ve understood that before I made this thread. I did an insane amount of research prior to even getting a chance to try them on the first time. I’ve watched all the blister videos from the summit event from each manufacturer regarding their new lineups and what was new etc. I didn’t just jump on board because it looked cool.

my general point was I tried both the standard buckle and boa 130 recon on side by side, and for my feet the boa is harder. Again I’m only speaking to my feet.

I did let my gf try my boots on as well as we wear the same size, and for her personally it was harder to get into the boa than her current rossignol alltrack.

i can absolutely see why some would have zero issue regardless of boa or not. I can also fully understand why myself and others have a harder time getting in boa. It’s not one or the other.
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I'm not saying this to be argumentative or pedantic - this topic is not about people's foot shape. The K2 Recon BOA and Recon buckle are not the same boot- they do not have the exact, same shell construction with different closure systems. This is not a question about foot shape, it's not about BOA vs. buckle - it's about shell construction, plastic thickness, and material choices. Same goes for your girlfriend comparing a BOA boot to a Rossignol buckle boot. Plastic thickness, material choices, last shape are all too different between that Rossi and the K2 for you or her to arrive at the conclusion that it is the BOA making the K2 boot harder to put on. Was the Rossi easier to put on? I have no doubt that it was, but it's not because it was a buckle boot.
 
14570922:onenerdykid said:
I'm not saying this to be argumentative or pedantic - this topic is not about people's foot shape. The K2 Recon BOA and Recon buckle are not the same boot- they do not have the exact, same shell construction with different closure systems. This is not a question about foot shape, it's not about BOA vs. buckle - it's about shell construction, plastic thickness, and material choices. Same goes for your girlfriend comparing a BOA boot to a Rossignol buckle boot. Plastic thickness, material choices, last shape are all too different between that Rossi and the K2 for you or her to arrive at the conclusion that it is the BOA making the K2 boot harder to put on. Was the Rossi easier to put on? I have no doubt that it was, but it's not because it was a buckle boot.
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Just to be clear I in no way think you’re being argumentative and I appreciate you adding your thoughts and knowledge into the thread. I am in no way an expert and only voicing my opinion on my experiences.
 
14570931:WaffleStomper said:
just got the salomon boa 130s. A+
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Nice man. Congrats. The Salomon was a really nice boot. Granted I tried the 120 as the 130 wasn’t in store yet, but it was a really nice boot overall. It just didn’t fit my foot well personally.
 
14570958:PartyBullshiit said:
Nice man. Congrats. The Salomon was a really nice boot. Granted I tried the 120 as the 130 wasn’t in store yet, but it was a really nice boot overall. It just didn’t fit my foot well personally.
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I had to put in J pads on my heel and some extra in the toe both on my right boot and 2mm risers under each but otherwise they're great. I've been searching for years
 
Now that we’re seeing these on plug boots have there been any issues with the know dragging when really laying over on aggressive turns or is the placement high enough up it’s not an issue?

Obviously can happen on any models but those high angle turns are more common in a race setting, probably also wouldn’t be an issue for the majority of skiers since they can’t lean them over that much.
 
14570968:kylemclean said:
Now that we’re seeing these on plug boots have there been any issues with the know dragging when really laying over on aggressive turns or is the placement high enough up it’s not an issue?

Obviously can happen on any models but those high angle turns are more common in a race setting, probably also wouldn’t be an issue for the majority of skiers since they can’t lean them over that much.
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Not sure if you’ve seen the new head race boot with double boa. I noticed they put the cuff boa further towards the rear of the cuff.
 
14570980:PartyBullshiit said:
Not sure if you’ve seen the new head race boot with double boa. I noticed they put the cuff boa further towards the rear of the cuff.
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This is what made me thing of it. Wasn’t as worried about the cuff boa but rather the one for the forefoot, would need less angle to get that down before the cuff an seems like there’s less room to move it around without impeding closure.
 
14570968:kylemclean said:
Now that we’re seeing these on plug boots have there been any issues with the know dragging when really laying over on aggressive turns or is the placement high enough up it’s not an issue?

Obviously can happen on any models but those high angle turns are more common in a race setting, probably also wouldn’t be an issue for the majority of skiers since they can’t lean them over that much.
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Yes, it is an issue for many racers. In fact, if you see any racers using BOA in an actual race this year, they will most likely need to use a double BOA configuration where both are mounted on the cuff for this exact reason.

Shell-mounted BOA drags on snow, especially for GS, and it is too exposed for Slalom. Therefore, the BOA that controls the shell needs to be moved to the cuff. When that happens it creates a bit of a domino effect where now it gets in the way of the cuff buckles and cuff buckles cannot be used. This is where the cuff-mounted BOA comes into play.

Testing is still on-going.
 
First day out. Absolutely fantastic. Actually skied part of the day with the left boa completely loose. Forgot to tighten it when I started chatting with someone. Never noticed. Still felt locked in.

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Day 2. Absolutely loving the boa boots. Had a great day n the mountain. Did notice ice build up a lot more around the boa dial than my older buckles. That being said, when I pop the boa knob, all the ice dumps right out.

looking to do custom inserts asap. My super feets suck in the recon.
 
Can confirm they're more difficult to get on than a buckle boot. I got the Hawx 130 Boas and goddamn they were tight. Like "Did you guys ship me a mislabeled 26/26.5?" tight (I wear 27.5). I never owned the Hawx 130 with buckles but I did try them on a few times and there is a noticeable difference. Had to give the shells some mild heat to soften things up and after some around the house wearing sessions they're getting better. Yes, the Boa is sick. Yes, it feels really good. Is it life changing over buckles? Highly doubtful. Very curious to see my own and others post-season thoughts.

**This post was edited on Dec 12th 2023 at 11:54:58am
 
14572460:homies3xual said:
Can confirm they're more difficult to get on than a buckle boot. I got the Hawx 130 Boas and goddamn they were tight. Like "Did you guys ship me a mislabeled 26/26.5?" tight (I wear 27.5). I never owned the Hawx 130 with buckles but I did try them on a few times and there is a noticeable difference. Had to give the shells some mild heat to soften things up and after some around the house wearing sessions they're getting better. Yes, the Boa is sick. Yes, it feels really good. Is it life changing over buckles? Highly doubtful. Very curious to see my own and others post-season thoughts.

**This post was edited on Dec 12th 2023 at 11:54:58am
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Thanks for adding your experience with the atomics.
 
Well got to test out some durability today. Was skiing trees all day. Nailed a hidden stump and got thrown off line, nailed a few sticks and branches. Went right up the boot and nailed the boa.

had no clue till I got home and took the boots off. Had some wood chunks in the dial. Nothing broke. The knob didn’t even pop off

just snapped some pics and noticed I nailed the other knob and boot too. Again nothing damaged. So far so good.

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^ that's intriguing. I'm worried about damaging them when skiing park though. You think that's going to be ok when skiing rails? Also I like using my slalom skis but I don't think get low enough frequent enough to worry about hitting the dial on the ground.
 
14572959:a_pla5tic_bag said:
^ that's intriguing. I'm worried about damaging them when skiing park though. You think that's going to be ok when skiing rails? Also I like using my slalom skis but I don't think get low enough frequent enough to worry about hitting the dial on the ground.
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I mean in the park they should be fine. If you nail the knob it pops off but is held on the boot and should just click back into place.
 
14572959:a_pla5tic_bag said:
^ that's intriguing. I'm worried about damaging them when skiing park though. You think that's going to be ok when skiing rails? Also I like using my slalom skis but I don't think get low enough frequent enough to worry about hitting the dial on the ground.
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3 out of the 4 of us on the k2 boot engineering team are park skiers so they have been used in the park a bunch during the development. No issues to report.
 
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