Good thing they probably make you sign a waiver indemifying them if you die in an avie.
Iggy already pretty much summed it up, but I can't imagine anyone skiing out of bounds without proper gear. I'd personally be scared shitless the whole time if I didn't have my gear...so scared in fact that there'd be no way I'd enjoy myself.
As for 'extensive' training, do you mean they talked to you before you went up or you actually took avie classes?
As for the gear being too heavy, sack up or go back to the f'ing park cuz you're going to get yourself killed.
what can I say, I went to a BC catSkiing op where people with good amount of extra money can throw it at guides, massuses, coooks, and cleaners and can have one of the best times ever doing it all.
at least i can say i am a hell of a lot more educated than say... the man in the blue, doesnt say much but hey. i've been skiing backcountry for a while. and when theres an oppurtunity to not where a pack, i take it.
which is where this conversation started.
granted going BC catskiing probably wasnt the best place to pick when to not wear my pack. it was a good time and nothing bad happened thanks to our guides and the groups common sense.
and this provies a good point, gear doesn't mean saftey.
prevention and avoidance is the #1 concern in the BC.
but what you just said actually made you sound dumber.
first....is isn't about just your pack. did you have a beacon? you've made NO mention of it. you may have, but have said nothing about it.
and your pack isn't what needs to be carried, but a shovel and probe. if you were educated enough to know the dangerous of BC travel than skiing without those tools, meaning always having them on you most likely in a pack, isn't an option.
and you said you are more educated than the others skiing with you?
that doesn't scare you???
the guy in the blue is less educated than you, thus making him more likely to trigger a slide, endanger himself and the group, etc. YOU are than saying you choose to ski in the BC with someone who more likely to trigger a slide and not know what to do when it happened.
even if there was a slide hardly anyone had and shovels so it wouldn't matter anyway. I refuse to ski with people in the BC who aren't prepared. I even refuse to ski with people who carry plastic shovel blades as they are almost pointless trying to dig through avie debris.
the conversation was Not, i repeat, NOT started because you and your group wasn't wearing packs.
It began because this picture is a perfect example of the ignorance and carelessness that is extremely prevelant regarding BC travel on this site.
People who are unprepared in the BC are dangerous to other BC travellers, even if they are educated and prepared.
Your group not only is a hazard to its self but to other skiers in the area.
The BC is dangerous enough with big groups of people, even who are in the care of good guides. If one of them fucks up or the guide makes a mistake it can result in the death or deaths of members of your group or other backcountry users.
Guides do not mean saftey. People are killed all the time with guides present. a few years ago when 15 people were buried in a huge avie, with many guides, that killed 7 people including snowboarder Craig Kelly. Everyone there was well educated in BC travel, much more than you seem to be claiming to be. They still made a mistake.
8 people who were buried lived only because they had beacons on and the other people around knew how to perform a rescue. 7 people werent so lucky.
Coming on here and giving examples to kids who don't know about BC travel on how to do that incorrectly is arrogant and stupid. Arguing on a deadset topic where you are wrong trying to justify the oppertunity to ski without a pack, and thus the correct rescue gear, is stupid. Being in the BC without the correct knowledge and gear is stupid.
The point is don't be stupid!! I'm not even trying to be a bitch to you personally, just to every fucking person who thinks it is safe to travel in the BC and endangers my life by their ignorance.
Common sense is huge, but it isn't everything. Those guides must be extremely confident and controlling, because stuff can go to shit very quickly in the BC. Being prepared for the mess that follows shouldn't be an option.
this site is not sufficiently geared towards backcountry skiing.
we were wearing mammut beacons
being in the back country is a dangerous experience but in order to have a good time it's necessary to look past the dangers and realize how humbling it is to be in the mountains where establishment is 40 miles or more, from your pitch. but never to forget the dangers because they're always there.
you're a smart guy and i realize this. im sure everyone on this site including me could learn from whats going on right here. i appreciate your care and concern [if you actually have any] for the skiers in my group including myself as well as the rest of the skiing community
also, we skied each pitch individually one at a time in order to minimize danger. and if on a confident pitch we skied with necessary yardage inbetween eachother, which was determined by the guides. but all of this was covered in the avie training we did for 5 hrs before we got on the hill, including checking for snowpack and stability.
i was very uncomfurtable skiing with him actually. i always watched him and picked my line away from his to fit my comfurt. the rest of the skiers in the group were very aware including the guy in the red who was doing a trade out on operations and had over 40 years of heliski guiding experience in bella coola. this being the case, he was constantly reminding us of certain facts and helping us choose lines and giving us advice above and beyond the other guides and our own commmon sense etc.
Someone who isn't an asshole and gets it!!!!!!!!!!
Honestly....I can't even tell you how excited that reply got me.
i'll go through it all...
first, glad you were at least wearing beacons. At least in that case, in the event of an avie, the people with shovels could did you out. I would be shocked if the guides didnt make you wear beacons.
the barryvox is, IMO, the best beacon available too. Just went from a Tracker to a Barryvox. I like it a lot more.
As you said, being in the BC is a constant, dangerous situtation. Being prepared it necessary.
Pretty cool you appreciate the feeling associated with the BC, and the area you were in looks just amazing. A lot of people just don't seem to get the significance of being in the BC as opposed to hanging out all day in the park.
I'm sure I came out as a complete asshole to you and whoever reads this, and I'm sorry for that, but honestly with this topic I kind of get heated. I really wasn't trying to just attack you, it was aimed at people who still ignore the dangerous and risks of the BC and are dicks when I ask them about those risks.
I hope it was apparent that I actually do have concerns for the people you were skiing with. I have know people who have lots friends in avalanches, and my dad was a member of the Rocky Mountain Rescue group in CO, so I have heard enough about avalanches and the disturbing details about their fatalities to be absolutely terrified by them. The stories my dad has are often about people getting into situtation over their head and resulting in their death.
And I don't want anyone to die skiing and doing what they love.
Most people would have just bitched back after I posted that whole last rant, but I think you are the first person to ever really seem to get it.
I hope you get the chance to educate yourself and get in the BC more. Then you can experience the obviously great trip you had over and over with good friends and without the expenses.
To sum up ALL the crap I wrote - Stay safe and enjoy the BC!!
