Why should the US support Israel?
- Thread starter RudyGarmisch
- Start date
hoodratz47
Active member
yeah i dont fuck with Israel i dont believe in supporting them in whatever they want
fujarome
Active member
and there it is....
the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
israel is at odds with the same countries we are (disregard the fact that most of these countries dislike the US due to our involvement with israel, we're in too deep now anyways)
The middle east is in chaos, and just about always has been. It's a problem with having seemingly every religion claiming the same few hundred square miles as being their birthplace and rightful land.
Israel however is a major power among them. And they're able to add stability to the region, despite being the cause of so many problems because everyone else knows that they are not to be fucked with. They still try, and are almost always unsuccessful.
the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
israel is at odds with the same countries we are (disregard the fact that most of these countries dislike the US due to our involvement with israel, we're in too deep now anyways)
The middle east is in chaos, and just about always has been. It's a problem with having seemingly every religion claiming the same few hundred square miles as being their birthplace and rightful land.
Israel however is a major power among them. And they're able to add stability to the region, despite being the cause of so many problems because everyone else knows that they are not to be fucked with. They still try, and are almost always unsuccessful.
pmills
Active member
pop quiz:
What was the last country that Iran (or the Persian state under any name) invaded?
When was the last time Iran attacked another country directly (remember, Saddam attacked Iran to start the Iran-Iraq war, not the other way around).
In fact, when was the last time Iran even threatened any specific military action against any other nation?
What was the last country that Iran (or the Persian state under any name) invaded?
When was the last time Iran attacked another country directly (remember, Saddam attacked Iran to start the Iran-Iraq war, not the other way around).
In fact, when was the last time Iran even threatened any specific military action against any other nation?
How does Israel add stability to the middle east? Being a major power in the region does not translate into adding stability. If you have been watching the recent peace talks between Palestine and Israel you would know that it was Israeli settlers that have threatened their outcome. And the United States supporting Israel does not really have to do with their strategic location, it has to do with all of the rich Jews in the US that control certain aspects of your foreign policy...
TijmenDal
Active member
Can't agree more.
Israel is baaaad, as in really bad! They criminals, all of them. The US should stop funding those mother-fuckers as soon as possible. It's the sole reason 9/11 happened in the first place. If the Americans would've left the whole middle-east alone and let them israeli's be, then osama wouldn't have given a rat's shit.
Btw, did anyone know orthodox american christians are the second biggest financers for the Israeli's...that's pretty fucked up right?
I'm sooo fed up with the Israeli's...and I think most people are actually (hopefully)
Israel is baaaad, as in really bad! They criminals, all of them. The US should stop funding those mother-fuckers as soon as possible. It's the sole reason 9/11 happened in the first place. If the Americans would've left the whole middle-east alone and let them israeli's be, then osama wouldn't have given a rat's shit.
Btw, did anyone know orthodox american christians are the second biggest financers for the Israeli's...that's pretty fucked up right?
I'm sooo fed up with the Israeli's...and I think most people are actually (hopefully)
that woman has more valid views than half the people in this country. Why the fuck do we keep electing black people for representatives? I wouldn't care and I wouldn't be racist, but they keep giving the people that aren't doing shit in life all the money. People that work their asses off all day get punished for it and taxed up the ass. While people that don't have a job, dont' leave their house, and don't go to school are getting welfare from the government. Just doesn't make sense to me. Make everyone on welfare have to go in and get a drug test before hand and we'll see how many people are "trying to get a job"
fujarome
Active member
not every israeli is a criminal, stop generalizing, it makes you look ignorant. If every israeli is a criminal, so is everyone else.
9/11 did not occur simply because the US supports israel. It was a reason, but one of the primary reasons is because a man named osama bin laden who was a significant man of power within certain terror cells wanted to restore sharia law, and set the middle east back about 2,000 years. And western countries are in the way of that happening.
either way, I need to reiterate this apparently...people don't get it, you don't fuck with israel. end of story. While a country like the US might capture people trying to kill our soldiers or civilians and either imprison or release them some time later, israel does not do that. They aren't a nation who cares whether the rest of the world likes them or not. So if they find you fucking with them, rather than thinking about what the world will think if they use force, they don't worry, and put 2 bullets into your head.
They operate their general military like most countries special forces. You pose a threat, you get in the way, you cause a problem...you get killed.
9/11 did not occur simply because the US supports israel. It was a reason, but one of the primary reasons is because a man named osama bin laden who was a significant man of power within certain terror cells wanted to restore sharia law, and set the middle east back about 2,000 years. And western countries are in the way of that happening.
either way, I need to reiterate this apparently...people don't get it, you don't fuck with israel. end of story. While a country like the US might capture people trying to kill our soldiers or civilians and either imprison or release them some time later, israel does not do that. They aren't a nation who cares whether the rest of the world likes them or not. So if they find you fucking with them, rather than thinking about what the world will think if they use force, they don't worry, and put 2 bullets into your head.
They operate their general military like most countries special forces. You pose a threat, you get in the way, you cause a problem...you get killed.
sneezin
Member
Shut the fuck up.
Seriously. That was one of the least intelligent things I have ever heard.
Now, I'm not saying that Israel should be supported by the US government, or that it should necessarily be there in the first place. I'm just trying to point out how ignorant you are.
You've probably never even met an Israeli. I've met a good amount, and they're all nice, down to earth people. That doesn't mean Israel is nice, or a bunch of assholes, you just CANT generalize a nation based upon the actions of a few.
Can you explain to me how the flotilla was any less provoked than one of the suicide bombings that occurs nearly every day in Israel, on Israeli civilians? The flotilla was at least somewhat in self defense. They passed a blockade that they knew was there. Sure they shouldn't have been executed, but nearly everyday a suicide bomber kills civilians in Israel. Civilians.
Does that mean all Palestinians are assholes? NO.
shut up.
haha i hope your not trolling because that was one good troll if you were.
Seriously. That was one of the least intelligent things I have ever heard.
Now, I'm not saying that Israel should be supported by the US government, or that it should necessarily be there in the first place. I'm just trying to point out how ignorant you are.
You've probably never even met an Israeli. I've met a good amount, and they're all nice, down to earth people. That doesn't mean Israel is nice, or a bunch of assholes, you just CANT generalize a nation based upon the actions of a few.
Can you explain to me how the flotilla was any less provoked than one of the suicide bombings that occurs nearly every day in Israel, on Israeli civilians? The flotilla was at least somewhat in self defense. They passed a blockade that they knew was there. Sure they shouldn't have been executed, but nearly everyday a suicide bomber kills civilians in Israel. Civilians.
Does that mean all Palestinians are assholes? NO.
shut up.
haha i hope your not trolling because that was one good troll if you were.
MitchPee
Active member
No no no. Everything you are describing is what, for the most part, caused 9/11.
I recommend reading against all enemies, because I really hope you and we as a nation can learn from our mistakes. We certainly aren't doing it.
The Middle East isn't a chessboard like the way most politicians saw it during the cold war. This ideology created a lot of very harmful things, including a majority of the fundamentalist movements. Israelis deserve better than what we have given them. We have given them nuclear capabilities, an absurd amount of military technology, enough guns to fight off the entire Middle East, and did you know we still give Egypt billions of dollars for no reason other than to uphold a treaty to not attack Israel (camp david accords 1979). Now Israeli technology has probably surpassed ours in most areas. They are no longer the defenseless country that once was but now a victim of their own circumstances and a complete aggressor. One which we essentially propped up because we saw it as a friendly ally.
Also it is absurd to say that the Middle East has always been "chaos". It has been chaos ever since the west got involved. Much like Africa, drawing lines in the sand doesn't constitute a division of ethnicity like it works out oh so perfectly in the developed world. Look at where the civilized world originated, where mathematics originated, etc.
Let it be a lesson to anyone else who has misconceived notions of the Middle East, the way we are dealing with it now only creates a perpetual problem. The hole we dug ourselves is deep, but not impossible to climb out of.
I recommend reading against all enemies, because I really hope you and we as a nation can learn from our mistakes. We certainly aren't doing it.
The Middle East isn't a chessboard like the way most politicians saw it during the cold war. This ideology created a lot of very harmful things, including a majority of the fundamentalist movements. Israelis deserve better than what we have given them. We have given them nuclear capabilities, an absurd amount of military technology, enough guns to fight off the entire Middle East, and did you know we still give Egypt billions of dollars for no reason other than to uphold a treaty to not attack Israel (camp david accords 1979). Now Israeli technology has probably surpassed ours in most areas. They are no longer the defenseless country that once was but now a victim of their own circumstances and a complete aggressor. One which we essentially propped up because we saw it as a friendly ally.
Also it is absurd to say that the Middle East has always been "chaos". It has been chaos ever since the west got involved. Much like Africa, drawing lines in the sand doesn't constitute a division of ethnicity like it works out oh so perfectly in the developed world. Look at where the civilized world originated, where mathematics originated, etc.
Let it be a lesson to anyone else who has misconceived notions of the Middle East, the way we are dealing with it now only creates a perpetual problem. The hole we dug ourselves is deep, but not impossible to climb out of.
fujarome
Active member
I'll check out that books, but the us and israel is not the sole cause of 9/11.
Yea I know it's not a chessboard like the old school of thought, but the fact is, like you said, we're in too deep. We can't just step back and restart, so we have to deal with what we have, which is a shit situation.
Israel is far from surpassing the United States technologically. If they had, then they wouldn't still rely on the US as a weapons supplier. Though what bothers me is how they barely pay for anyone of the hardware we give them. They are advancing at their own rate, but they aren't going to surpass the US. What they tend to do is take american equipment and improve on it. For example, we sell them f-16s outfitted with what our own f-16s had back in the 90s. Then they put their own upgrades and changes to customize it to their own reqs.
infantry training however, they most likely are ahead of us a bit because we don't all grow up in a state of warfare, and there is no general conscription. Thats hardly a technological breakthrough, and rather a matter of circumstance. Israel is not the sole aggressor though, otherwise I wouldn't be seeing stories on the news each evening about someone walking into an israeli market and blowing themselves up. The whole situation was handled poorly by everyone, and as a result, we now have this terrible ordeal which is seemingly never going to end.
And yes, the middle east has always been in chaos, even before the west/ east (or however you wish to refer to russia) intervened, simply because religions get hostile over their territory, and unfortunately many religions claim that area to be their own. It's not chaos as in, constant war and explosions, but it has been a consistently unstable region for an extremely long time. Plus that general area was one of the earliest parts of the planet to be populated, so people have been there a long, long time and have thus had longer to fight over it.
Should we stop supporting israel, all we do is make another enemy in an area where we don't have many friends. And i doubt there is anyone who can honestly believe that if we stopped supporting them and withdrew our troops, suddenly terrorist factions would just cease fighting and stop hating us.
Yea I know it's not a chessboard like the old school of thought, but the fact is, like you said, we're in too deep. We can't just step back and restart, so we have to deal with what we have, which is a shit situation.
Israel is far from surpassing the United States technologically. If they had, then they wouldn't still rely on the US as a weapons supplier. Though what bothers me is how they barely pay for anyone of the hardware we give them. They are advancing at their own rate, but they aren't going to surpass the US. What they tend to do is take american equipment and improve on it. For example, we sell them f-16s outfitted with what our own f-16s had back in the 90s. Then they put their own upgrades and changes to customize it to their own reqs.
infantry training however, they most likely are ahead of us a bit because we don't all grow up in a state of warfare, and there is no general conscription. Thats hardly a technological breakthrough, and rather a matter of circumstance. Israel is not the sole aggressor though, otherwise I wouldn't be seeing stories on the news each evening about someone walking into an israeli market and blowing themselves up. The whole situation was handled poorly by everyone, and as a result, we now have this terrible ordeal which is seemingly never going to end.
And yes, the middle east has always been in chaos, even before the west/ east (or however you wish to refer to russia) intervened, simply because religions get hostile over their territory, and unfortunately many religions claim that area to be their own. It's not chaos as in, constant war and explosions, but it has been a consistently unstable region for an extremely long time. Plus that general area was one of the earliest parts of the planet to be populated, so people have been there a long, long time and have thus had longer to fight over it.
Should we stop supporting israel, all we do is make another enemy in an area where we don't have many friends. And i doubt there is anyone who can honestly believe that if we stopped supporting them and withdrew our troops, suddenly terrorist factions would just cease fighting and stop hating us.
MitchPee
Active member
I hate to tell you but Israeli pilots are far better than US pilots. I didn't mean they surpass the US in every aspect but there's quite a few that they definitely do.
You're mistaken on the cause for 9/11. Yes the majority of the reason is directly linked to US foreign policy. Nothing will ever justify the actions of Bin Laden, but what you don't understand is that the US flooded Saudi Arabia with weapons and money that the public never saw. There was destined to be someone to use the holy land scapegoat to meet the west intervention into the Middle East with force, and that man was Osama Bin Laden. Not only did US contractors pose a threat to his family business, but they jeopardized his own freedom of religion. Again, what he did isn't justified and he is off his rocker but this is the gist of it. The whole story would take hours.
No, you are talking about the Jerusalem area. The Middle East is larger than that and it has not always been chaos, please stop this train of thought. As I explained it was the center of knowledge and trade before Europe intervened.
You're mistaken on the cause for 9/11. Yes the majority of the reason is directly linked to US foreign policy. Nothing will ever justify the actions of Bin Laden, but what you don't understand is that the US flooded Saudi Arabia with weapons and money that the public never saw. There was destined to be someone to use the holy land scapegoat to meet the west intervention into the Middle East with force, and that man was Osama Bin Laden. Not only did US contractors pose a threat to his family business, but they jeopardized his own freedom of religion. Again, what he did isn't justified and he is off his rocker but this is the gist of it. The whole story would take hours.
No, you are talking about the Jerusalem area. The Middle East is larger than that and it has not always been chaos, please stop this train of thought. As I explained it was the center of knowledge and trade before Europe intervened.
fujarome
Active member
the pilot thing, i know. We have the best and most equipment except maybe if we find ourselves fighting russia, but not the best trained pilots. British and french pilots are known to be better than ours, and of course so are the israelis. USAF is working on that though it seems. I think it may come down to the fact that we have almost 5,000 more aircraft than they do. We have an enormous number of pilots, so putting them all through and getting nothing but top notch pilots might be hard. Smaller groups tend to be be better trained.
I know it wasn't just one thing for 9/11. Hell, entire books have been written about it with countless theories about it. If i had to sum it up, i'd cut it down to...bin laden felt wronged by the US and didn't agree with what or how we did business. But even thats still vague, you can't just make it into 1 point. Our foreign policy most definitely is fucked though, and it would require a massive effort and shift to alter that, but i think it would be too late to change a lot of people's perception about the US.
and to nalgene, yes, he knows a lot more about this subject than i do, i'll admit it. But I'm willing to learn from people who are more informed about it. And now i know more.
I know it wasn't just one thing for 9/11. Hell, entire books have been written about it with countless theories about it. If i had to sum it up, i'd cut it down to...bin laden felt wronged by the US and didn't agree with what or how we did business. But even thats still vague, you can't just make it into 1 point. Our foreign policy most definitely is fucked though, and it would require a massive effort and shift to alter that, but i think it would be too late to change a lot of people's perception about the US.
and to nalgene, yes, he knows a lot more about this subject than i do, i'll admit it. But I'm willing to learn from people who are more informed about it. And now i know more.
charmander
Active member
this.
israel never should have been made.
everybody in the middle east is fucking nuts.
/thread
israel never should have been made.
everybody in the middle east is fucking nuts.
/thread
I seriously love when you start posting paragraphs. Its such an honor to have them in a thread I started.
MitchPee
Active member
<3 you should love me for my true beliefs that we should ....<div><br></div><div><object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2YqpAEA3wYE?fs=1&hl=en_US"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2YqpAEA3wYE?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object><img class="wce_fv_plchldr" src="/static/images/flash_video_placeholder.png"><br></div>