Why isnt the World in Chaos?

RudyGarmisch

Active member
Staff member
I'm in the midst of parsing through some of the articles on www.edge.org (a collection of responses to general questions, posed to some of the greatest thinkers of our age), and I came across this one. It may be too long a read for NS, but try, its not technical, theres lots of metaphors, and the conclusions are somewhat startling. This is in response to the question "What do you think is the most dangerous idea?"

Anty Gravity:

Chaos Theory in an all too practical sense


Dangerous

Ideas? It is dangerous ideas you want? From this group of people

? That in itself ought to be nominated as one of the more dangerous

ideas...

Danger

is ubiquitous. If recent years have shown us anything, it should

be that "very simple small events can cause real havoc in

our society". A few hooded youths play cat and mouse with

the police: bang, thousands of burned cars put all of Paris into

a complete state of paralysis, mandatory curfew and the entire

system in shock and horror.

My

first thought was: what if any really smart set of people

really set their mind to it...how utterly and scarily trivial

it would be, to disrupt the very fabric of life, to bring society

to a dead stop?

The

relative innocence and stable period of the last 50 years may

spiral into a nearly inevitable exposure to real chaos. What

if it isn't haphazard testosterone driven riots, where they cannibalize

their own neighborhood, much like in L.A. in the 80s, but someone

with real insight behind that criminal energy ? What if Slashdotters

start musing aloud about "Gee, the L.A. water supply is

rather simplistic, isn't it?" An Open Source crime web,

a Wiki for real WTO opposition ? Hacking L.A. may be a lot easier

than hacking IE.

That is basic banter over a beer in a bar, I don't even want to

actually speculate what a serious set of brainiacs could conjure

up. And I refuse to even give it any more print space here. However,

the danger of such sad memes is what requires our attention!

In

fact, I will broaden the specter still: its not violent crime

and global terrorism I worry about, as much as the basic underpinning

of our entire civilization coming apart, as such. No acts of

malevolence, no horrible plans by evil dark forces, neither the

singular "Bond Nemesis" kind, nor masses of religious

fanatics. None of that needed... It is the glue that

is coming apart to topple this tower. And no, I am not referring

to "spiraling trillions of debt".

No,

what I am referring to is a slow process I observed over the

last 30 years, ever since in my teens I wondered "How would

this world work, if everyone were like me ?" and realized:

it wouldn't !

It was amazing to me that there were just enough people to make

just enough shoes so that everyone can avoid walking barefoot.

That there are people volunteering to spend day-in, day-out, being

dentists, and lawyers and salesmen. Almost any "jobjob" I

look at, I have the most sincere admiration for the tenacity of

the people...how do they do it? It would drive me nuts

after hours, let alone years...Who makes those shoes ?

That

was the wondrous introspection in adolescent phases, searching

for a place in the jigsaw puzzle.

But

in recent years, the haunting question has come back to me: "How

the hell does this world function at all? And does it,

really ? I feel an alienation zapping through the channels, I

can't find myself connecting with those groups of humanoids trouncing

around MTV. Especially the glimpses of "real life":

on daytime-courtroom-dramas or just looking at faces in the street.

On every scale, the closer I observe it, the more the creeping

realization haunts me: individuals, families, groups, neighborhoods,

cities, states, countries... they all just barely hang in there,

between debt and dysfunction. The whole planet looks like Any

town with mini malls cutting up the landscape and just down the

road it's all white trash with rusty car wrecks in the back yard.

A huge Groucho Club I don't want to be a member of.

But

it does go further: what is particularly disturbing to see is

this desperate search for Individualism that has rampantly increased

in the last decade or so.

Everyone

suddenly needs to be so special, be utterly unique.

So unique that they race off like lemmings to get 'even more

individual' tattoos, branded cattle, with branded chains in every

mall, converging on a blanded sameness world wide, but every

rap singer with ever more gold chains in ever longer stretched

limos is singing the tune: Don't be a loser! Don't be normal!

The desperation with which millions of youngsters try to be that

one-in-a-million professional ball player may have been just

a "sad but silly factoid" for a long time.

But

now the tables are turning: the anthill is relying on the behaviour

of the ants to function properly. And that implies: the social

behaviour, the role playing, taking defined tasks and follow

them through.

What

if each ant suddenly wants to be the queen? What if soldiering

and nest building and cleaning chores is just not cool enough

any more?

If

AntTV shows them every day nothing but un-Ant behaviour...?

In

my youth we were whining about what to do and how to do it, but

in the end,all of my friends did become "normal" humans,

orthopedics and lawyers, social workers, teachers... There were

always a few that lived on the edges of normality, like ending

up as television celebrities, but on the whole: they were perfectly

reasonable ants. 1.8 children, 2.7 cars, 3.3 TVs...

Now:

I am no longer confident that line will continue. If every honeymoon

is now booked in Bali on a Visa card, and every kid in Borneo

wants to play ball in NYC... can the network of society be pliable

enough to accommodate total upheaval? And what if 2 billion Chinese

and Indians raise a generation of kids staring 6+ hours a day

into All American values they can never attain... being taunted

with Hollywood movies of heroic acts and pathetic dysfunctionality,

coupled with ever increasing violence and disdain for ethics

or morals.

Seeing

scenes of desperate youths in South American slums watching "Kill

Bill" makes me think: this is just oxygen thrown into the

fire... The ants will not play along much longer. The anthill

will not survive if even a small fraction of the system is falling

apart.

Couple

that inane drive for "Super Individualism" (and the

Quest for Coolness by an ever increasing group destined to fail

miserably) with the scarily simple realization of how effective

even a small set of desperate people can become, then add the

obvious penchant for religious fanaticism and you have an ugly

picture of the long term future.

So

many curves that grow upwards towards limits, so many statistics

that show increases and no way to turn around.

Many

in this forum may speculate about infinite life spans, changing

the speed of light, finding ways to decode consciousness, wormholes

to other dimensions and finding grand unified theories.

To

make it clear: I applaud that! "It does take all kinds".

Diversity is indeed one of the definitions of the meaning of life.

Edge IS Applied Diversity.

Those are viable and necessary questions for mankind as a whole,

however: I believe we need to clean house, re-evaluate, redefine

the priorities.

While

we look at the horizon here in these pages, it is the very ground

beneath us, that may be crumbling. The ant hill could really

go to ant hell! Next year, let's ask for good ideas.

Really practical, serious, good ideas. "The most

immediate positive global impact of any kind that can be achieved

within one year?". How to envision Internet3 and Web3 as

a real platform for a global brainstorming with 6+ billion potential

participants.

This

was not meant to sound like doom and gloom naysaying. I

see myself as a sincere optimist, but one who believes in realistic

pessimism as a useful tool to initiate change.

Basically, whats stopping chaos? I cannot help but to think of the recent movie "The Dark Knight", but somehow the answer the movie gave seems half-assed. 19 hijackers changed the priorities of the entire world and sparked two wars. It just takes a few people, out of the billions of normal people enjoying everyday life, to create something that will effect these billions. Whats stopping our society from collapsing, and might we need to consider ways to restructure it so its not as vulnerable?

 
interesting really but i feel like this idea has been brought up before and will be brought up again in the future. its just weird that people are putting out the message to be unique but people forget that in this life wanting to be a show maker is unique.
 
Its a very scary thought when you look at how small the worlds become. Thousands, even just hundreds of years ago, it was very difficult to change the outcome of world society as a whole. Now though, increased communication, mobility, and population make it easier and easier to change the world. Hopefully though, the few who eventually decide to go ahead and change the world will change it for the better.
 
I don't think there is anything in the world that can appeal to, or upheave society as a whole. It is simply to diverse. To many people with to many backgrounds and to much hate for each other. And even though on the surface this creates war and may seem aweful, t it is simply that fabric of difference that keeps us together. Because as long as we all have different emotions and oppinions to the same event we cant be destroyed as a whole becuse there will all ways be people happy with any out come any situation.

Hope this made sense and came out like how I thought it in my head. But good find, its a very thought provoking article. Makes me think we need to get NS thinkers going again.
 
Thinking about it, your security is completely an illusion.

Lets take airport security, because thats probably the most stringent security most have us have dealt with. Whats to stop anyone from packing a stick of deoderant (allowed to carry it on now!) with C-4? If you wanted to take down an airplane, and are dedicated and have just modest intelligence, you could do it.

Whats stopping anyone from shipping pipe bombs? Do it just a few times and time them so they go off in major distribution centers, and our nations shipping network would shut down.

Lets take a more harmless example. Whats to stop a facebook group from organizing a mass toilet flushing nationwide? It seems harmless and fun, but seriously, if just a fraction of facebookers did it, it would cause catastrophe is major US cities.

Even someone with moderate computer skill could probably find the name and address and phone number of any member on this site. It would take only a little more learning to figure out how to get someones bank account information. You really are not as safe as you would like to think.
 
So right dude. Saying individuality= failure is a joke to me. Everyone says there unique but no one is everyone wants to fit in. and those of use who say they don't, well guess what thats been done before to. Everything has been done so like people trying to be unique are really just copying others. and the reason they are trying to be unique is normally in order to stand out therefore drawing attention so they are noticed and talked about. You can stay true to your believes but you cant necessarily be unique and individual from every one else.

And as far as your percents go its weird my high school was so mixed. Our valedictorian smoked weed every day. Our track team did drugs. The gangsters just followed the fads. High school is a weird time because teens wanna fit in more then anyone. I mean adults can be happy having a few friends. little kids will be fine playing with the neighbors kid every day. But high schoolers feel worthless if they only have one friend in there phone book. So high schoolers basically are willing to do alot of stuff to act cool and get noticed and then try to claim there different.

And yea every generation fails to fully understand the other generations because part of personalities is wanting to be better and feel good about yourself and peers. So generations look down on what is different. The world would be a better a better place if we could all not judge things but its not gonna happen. So essays like that are interesting but unless they are providing a way to solve problems there not doing much.
 
Regardless of the fact if people do in fact become 'unique' or now, I think the idea is that the stress on such 'individualistic' behavior will gradually give more people dissatisfaction with 'normal' life, which the majority of us will grow up to accept. I dont think its just a generation gap of understanding, our culture has really shifted to one of 'be unique' rather than 'be normal', as we used to see in the 60's. Just look at the shows teenagers watched then and now.
 
that was a really interesting article and i believe the answer to that is almost unattainable. i would relate the questions that guy is pondering to someone trying to find the meaning of life its self. things just work out and i think the whole process is almost above human comprehension. but about your question of chaos, i think that the majority of people are inherently good, despite what all the naysayers might say. it is hard to believe this, especially in today's world, where the negatives are magnified every day in the various media outlets. but there is also the unheard voice of the masses, that is rarely talked about by the media entities. i believe, when it comes down to it people will make the moral, rational choice that will benefit them and others around them. its a fine line between prosperity and chaos, but there are so many different angles and outside forces that can be examined. i think there will always be enough good people in the world to destroy the evil ones.
 
True. You can kinda already see the dissatisfaction emerging. Most kids change college majors 3 to 5 times. And at least from what i am seeing kids are starting to use drugs super early on. like 6 or 7th grade ( the town i lived in was voted 15th best town in america last year to live, it wasn't even a city).
And yeah the shows these days are weird. I just wanna watch Yogi bear get some food or fred flinstone do something dumb, not all these new shows.
 
And the 100 people who dont can make the city into a madhouse of fear. People are self-serving and selfish, as much as we wish we werent. We are selfish every single time we think we can get away with it.
 
depends on who you are talking to... allot of people put other people first...

i know where you stand on religion, so dont go there in this thread, but some religions are a good example of this..

like the quote said, people want to believe in good....

 
Religious people arent any more less prone to this than the rest of us.

Montreal Police Strike, 1969. The Police and Fire departments of the city quit for 16 hours, and the city went nuts. Over 10 million dollars in damage in todays money, one officer shot, and widespread destruction, perpetrated by hundreds of people.

You cannot seriously tell me that all these rioters were atheists. If religion really served as a device that puts people first (or gives strict moral codes that all members abide by), it somehow failed to do so here.

But lets go back to the modern world. Give me a example of someone doing good just for the sake of doing good. I bet that for every example you give me, I'll be able to show they did it for a reward of some kind. Even religion provides a reward for what we call 'selflessness' - you do good now, you get to go to a nice place when you die.
 
It kind of reminds me of what my soccer coach said: "It only takes one person from each team to win." I just thought it applied here; it only takes a small amount of people to start something big.
 
haha super small example here, but the other day i saw in my school's parking lot, the car parked next to me had "lug nut" missing, so i whipped out my pad of paper and left the guy a note saying he was missing one... stuck it under his wiper.

i have econ homework, so if i get that done soon i'll do my best to give you more idea's that this world has good people who do good because it is the right thing to do.
 
i know i dont agree with you much (politically that is, haha) but i agree with you on this one. there was so much to pull out of that article its hard to discuss all of it.

For the Chaos theory i strongly believe. their was a movie about this not to long ago about shutting down our infustructure. anyways like heath ledger said in the Dark Knight, doesnt it make you scared to think of how alone you are in your little world and how pathetic our attempts to control stablility actually are?

dont get me wrong, good will always defeat evil and most people in this world are good but i totally see your point that just a handfull of people could cause Chaos. you could hack into the nations grid system, shut down power, or water. blow up credit agencies. there is sooo much that people could inject Chaos into that would bring our system down. thankfully it doesnt happen to often.

nice article tho.
 
the movie "live free, die hard" comes to mind...

it is sad though, just how fragile a world we live in.... it makes one wonder about what effect the media has in this "self fulfilling prophecy "?

you keep telling yourself you have a cold, and pretty soon you are sick.
 
I dunno if thats 'good' on the scale that would make any change to Santa's list.

Granted, its hard for me to speculate and say that it was simply you doing good. Maybe it was just a move to get the attention of a cute chick or make a point to your friend. Hell, you could act good but the real motive could be something totally subconscious, and ultimately self-serving. True acts of being good for only goods sake are few and far between.

It also really brings in the question of our definitions of good and evil, and why we construe both as being 'honorable' and 'despicable' characteristics.
 
You can also keep telling yourself that dog is actually a pineapple, and if you believe it enough, it will become one. Doesnt mean everyone else sees a pineapple.
 
Why isn't the world in chaos: The world isn't in chaos because it isn't in perfection. It's somewhere in between. I think the downfall of human kind could be intelligence. Think about it. As Aldous Huxley said " intelligence is useless if it is not of good intention." Then, to add on to that, there is the internet. Where people with the same bad ideas can scheme.. The end of the world isn't too far off guys make the most of what we have left because it's not a long way away.
 
I believe most of it has to do with basic human nature. We are creatures that have taken 1,000s of 1,000s or years to get where we are today. Over those years, we have learned that it is beneficial for your own survival to look out for those around you. To be good to the other humans in your clan or community. Deep in our primal wits we also know that extreme behavior as viewed by the majority is usually not a good thing and could face serious consequence.

These are basic primal behavoirs that can be found allover the animal kingdom.

 
Pretty sure that's called capitalism, not really a new idea.

And even if some crazy people sent bombs to a post office, it would not ensue mass chaos. Even 9/11, a highly organized and catastrophic event wasn't so monstrously detrimental to "collapse society", society adapts and pushes forward. Comparing society to an anthill is pretty weak too. I hardly think society can be characterized as a group of mindless drones with one dictator. I mean if you just look at this site, there is a good percentage of people who believe and even practice a strictly Bohemian lifestyle. I plan on doing my dream job of opening up a business as a carpenter after my time in the Air Force, just building furniture and houses. Not the easiest way for me to make a living, but I like the work. It makes me feel good. This whole thing is trivial and, frankly, juvenile. The best example of real global chaos would be Adolph Hitler's corruption of the majority of the German nation, but I don't think that would happen on that kind of scale in this day and age and the only reason it had such an impact is because the majority of the world stood against it. Hardly an anthill.
 
Fear arises through identification with form, whether it be a material possession, a physical body, a social role, a self-image, a thought, or an emotion. It arises through unawareness of the formless inner dimension of consciousness or spirit, which is the essence of who you are. You are trapped in object consciousness, unaware of the dimension of inner space which alone is true freedom.

-eckhart tolle
 
A world full of war, hate, poverty, crime and disease being reality right now? I think not. War seems to be a popular subject due to the fact that the US primarily has engaged in mulitple wars/conflicts over the past few years, but war has always existed as a problem. Think back to the cold war struggles, where anticipation of another potential world war was iminent. This was years ago, and lasted for a while yet nothing substantial happened. We haven't had a major world conflict since world war two. I would argue that war is decreasing, as the size of the struggles aren't as major.

Onto hate. Hate has always existed as well, but was much more prevalent years ago. While there is still widespread hate, countries have progressed from the discrimination, and general hate crimes in the past. Today, hate is more focused towards specific governments (such as the US) due to their actions rather than a sect of people. Some ties have been created and maintained through the past years between countries, creating a stronger collective. While there are still genocides, etc. due to hate, these have always existed and were larger problems in the past-they just weren't addressed in such a large volume. Internet, television, and other technological progression has only recently made us more away of hate, where as it used to be just as strong if not more before the media was a major force we just didn't hear about it.

Poverty-yet another example of something we didn't hear or regard as important years ago. Today, its becoming a "major" problem only because of the expansion of media. Poverty has, and always will exist if we maintain a capitalistic society. Communism was supposed to cure poverty, but its application couldn't keep up economically, and basically feel through on itself. Poverty has always existed, and will continue to exist until we develop a new economic system.

Crime. What else is there to say about it? Crime like the ones listed above has existed forever as well. Ill agree with you on this one though, serious crime (9/11 bombings, etc.) are much easier these days due to advancement in technology, however; typical day to day crime has always, and will continue to exist. Some would argue crime is a frayed piece of human nature, but in reality, its a series of poor judgement that leads to crime.

Disease. Once again, another component of life that has existed forever. Disease has actually gotten much less widespread because of technology. Major disease is slowly dwindling, and may cease to exist eventually. Think back to the plague in Europe hundreds of years ago. Today, these massive plagues have been eliminated, and will not return anytime soon.

Basically, these arguments have no basis because they have existed forever, and we have actually done a much better job controlling them than in the past.
 
Go to your towns local mall and sit and watch for 15 minutes.

Heres my point, somewhat revised in part to peoples comments:

Your security is a complete illusion. In fact, societies security is a complete illusion. There is less than you think keeping our world running, and it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the crop. The only thing that keeps society running as it is it the fact that we are so unaware of our precarious position.
 
I didn't read all of the responses, but this kind of reminds me of that whole terrorist deal in India. It didn't take many people to execute that plan and put the ball in their court.
 
as far as i'm concerned, it is already in chaos, has been for a very long time. we've just been brought up to assume that this is how things should be.
 
the world is not in chaos because there is always a counter to anyform of evil on this earth. And as long as there is a counter, there will be a fight for it.
 
Figured i'd throw some thoughts in here

So a few things, i'm taking a behavioral neuroscience class this semsester, pretty much a graduate level anatomy/physiology of the brain. The professor has told us that it is his strong beleif that we do not have any free will due to the fact that there is no part of the brain that you can point to and say 'ah ha thats where you find free will' (actually he said for those desperate to cling to free will he was willing to sacrifice the penial gland as the location of free will)

Anyways his theory is that we have this notion of free will because of echos in the system, but ultimately our thoughts are all reactionary to the inputs of stimulation from our senses and from other parts of the brain. (therefore you sitting there thinking do i have free will or do i not, is just the brain trapped in a loop of reactionary responses to your eyes reading the words on the page and the comprehension of the symbols into language and so on.)

now i can guess whats on your mind at this point as it was on our minds in class, what are the implications of a moral system based on this: well his response is that you act as if everyone does have freewill as this dictates the proper reactionary responses of the brain... concequentialy it doesn't matter if you have free will or not to him because we act as if we do.

Ah i've forgotten this is NS, i hope i haven't digressed too far, back to thread. This idea perhaps challenges the thoughts that we're not ants, we could be very complex ants and ultimately reactionary beings . This however doesn't explain why the world isn't in chaos so i apologize for this tanget as this simply negates those who think that our brain.

 
wow thats some smart stuff right there respect id vote for top 10 smartest ns members 08/09

but anyway i see what ur professor is saying pretty intersting stuff something to consider
 
This is a very thought provoking article and shows that there are some incredibly intelligent Ns users.

Here’s my view. Our society is riddled with little unsecure holes that a group with intelligence and common sense could get into. Our society is very socialistic now and very clique but as society grows so do our views on the world and the “global communities” strength.

50 years ago there may not have been as much world poverty as there is now, but there was also no Green Peace or those organisations trying to save people who they don’t even know, some not even speaking the same language. As society continues to progress society will continue to adapt, to keep the world running smoothly.

This was shown in 911, as in it caused a big uproar but it didn’t bring down society. I’m sure if you asked people 100 years ago if a group or terrorists would come and bomb the biggest building in the world and threaten the way we live then they would think either it would never happen of it would be the end of the world. Yes, the stock market it crashing, we’re going into a recession, a group of 19 terrorist have thrown the world into disarray. This shows the way that world can be thrown into utter chaos but it also shows that the world can bounce through many things. I’m sure a group of people banding together can create a huge dire situation, but I don’t believe that they will ever cause a sociologist upturning. The world is too strong as a whole driving force, countries some being selfish but still under pressure helping out other countries.

The world is a strong force, yes people could make a huge difference on the world, probably changing the way life is lived forever but they won’t even upturn the sociologist behaviour that everyone adheres to and strives to have in their daily lives.
 
haha thanks man, reading that made me really feel like shit!

seriously though, that was extremely interesting. I never really thought about that.

on the topic, I think it takes either sociopaths or people who have been heavily brainwashed to commit mass murder. in either case, neither of those two types tend to be very smart. we also have some extremely smart people working to prevent this kind of thing.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be easy to get away with shipping some pipe bombs. but chances are you would get caught. i really just wish anyone who was committed to acts of terror would just drop dead. I was reading about mumbai and I really felt like shit today.
 
i'd love to respond but its after 11 and i haven't even started a semester-long project....my threads for later, but keep it going. and everyone who has responded already deserves mad karma...all great thoughts whether you disagree or agree. the level of competence on NS in threads like this always makes my day.
 
the world is way too big for a small group of peoplr ot affect everyone. An event ie 911 could effect a large portion but society as a whole will keep rolling on.
 
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