Why Iran must be stopped.

JeffersonDavis

Active member
what scares me the most about Iran, is that Ahmadinejad follows a

supposed messianic imam who is believe to resurrect sometime this

decade and lead a jihad against the west, this makes me and numerous

defense analysts beleive that Iran is militarizing to prepare for this

final war against the west.

Iran is determined to become a player in international politics, and I

believe will stop at nothing to remove a US presence from the middle

east forcefully.

The Revolutionary guard is already patrolling the same area of the gulf

as our carriers and its not hard to believe the revolutionary guard

will attempt some antics that will draw us into firing upon them,

giving Iran cause to retailiate against the United States, causing war

between Us and Iran.

/ message sig
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53577
 
usually it's someone saying the US is going to invade Iran. sure Ahmadinejad is a nutcase who is surely not fit to run a country, but i am still not convinced that Iran is an imminent threat to the US, especially since we [now] know that they halted nuclear attempts in 2003 and will not be capable of producing any nuclear weapons until at least 2010. all we need to do is be willing to talk, diplomacy is key.
 
did you even read the article? diplomacy isnt going to work, especially when ahmadinejad follows and actually believes that a messianic imam will come this equinox to lead a war against the west. You can't practice diplomacy with someone set to conquer the civilized rule and submit them to a global islamic theocracy. They want a war.
 
You do realize going to war with Iran is possibly the stupidest thing America could do right about now? Iran is backed by China and Russia currently, so it'd basically be America vs. the rest of the world.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if them and Israel go to war then the US would get involved but I don't think the US will invade them and start a conflict especially if a democrat gets elected in 08.
 
Islam is retarded, they were started by a rapist and a pillager and their entire religion is based on a "prophets" ridiculous beliefs.
 
...Yes, Muhammad was a rapist. And a pillager. Holy god I hope this receives the golden wheelchair. Every monotheistic religion is based off of prophets interpreting the "word of god".

Ahh... I don't even want to try and comprehend your thinking.
 
o'rly?

so i assume you're gonna join the marines right off the bat if conflict arises, am i right?

no you wouldn't. you're the same atlantaski as you always have been. never worked for anything in your life, but always quick to go on rants on things you know jack shit about. NO ONE in america, regardless of ideology, knows shit about the middle east. only the big players, the people who pull the strings, who have the ability to send a soldier out to die and kill millions of civilians do.

i mean seriously, reread your fucking article. "me and many defense analysts believe...." AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WTF??!!! YOU ARE JOKE KID. DROP ALL THIS POLITICAL PRETENSE PUPPET BULLSHIT AND GO BACK TO LIVING THE LIFE YOUR PARENTS BOUGHT FOR YOU, JUST LIKE THE REST OF US
 
Calm the fuck down. I doubt it's really Atlantaski. No need to get so angry in a post, just vent your reasoning through an understandable argument.
 
Have you read any Islamic scripture? Islam is incredibly beautiful peaceful. It is more of a way of life then a religion as western society thinks of the word.

Would you tell me a religion that is not based on a prophet of some kind?

Do you know who the prophet really was or what he actually did?

There is nothing that Christianity teaches Islam does not, other then that christians believe that Jesus was the son of god and muslims think of him as a prophet.

Islam is a nation of peace and worship.

 
Yeah I obviously know absolutely nothing.

France has an army? Since when...

Germany and UK aren't going to do shit against Russia and f'ing China.

Blow me fucktard.
 
All the EU nations have large armies full of conscripts, which are highly trained and well equipped. I would even venture to say that they are better trained and do their jobs better than most of our soldiers in iraq who are for the most part uneducated, ignorant, and lower middle class.

If you disagree with this statement(there certainly are exceptions) go watch "why we fight"
 
Eh, I'm not going to nitpick my way through the EU part (Switzerland, Luxembourg), but I think it's safe to say going to war right now with Iran would be a terrible idea for most countries.
 
so the most obvious answer is for you to enlist then. you're for a new war, dissatisfied with the troops we have now and you're of course, a fucking golden, nancy boyschool educated rich kid.

 
Specifically the US, which let us not forget is already bogged down in two sandy shitholes. Seriously, suppose we actually manage to "Shock and Awe" the Iranian government out of power. What happens then? Maybe permanently deploy another hundred thousand American ground troops into another un-resolvable mess?
 
no, a well organized, surgical military operation, with solid support and logistics would be a rousing success. most Iranian people despise the current regime as well, especially the youth of the country who want a secular democracy
 
What the hell does being lower middle class have to do with how well a soldier can fight? And if you really think our soldiers are ignorant and uneducated it goes to show how ignorant you are.
 
ha, and it's all so easy isn't it? i mean all we have to do is press the WAR button right?

are you going to enlist or not if conflict arises? just answer the question.
 
Atlantaski-

did you know that Germany is prohibited from having soldiers beyond their boarders by UN?

did you know that switzerland (the european country that has a conscript army is not part of the EU)?

why should the US be allowed to continue its involvement in the middle east forcing our form of government on them. I don't think that you would like it if Arabs came over here and tried to force us into an Islamic state.
 
It's a valid point, but I don't really think so. There's no real denying that the American military is the strongest fighting force in the world right now. Killing the enemy, and taking a regime out of power? No problem. What it can't do is effectively rebuild. I personally don't believe any military is equipped to build and police a nation so fraught with deep seated rivalries and religious extremism.
 
this guy knows what's up.

and since atlantaski keeps evading my question, we can safely assume that he's all for a war when he watches it on tv or reads about it in the newspaper.
 
True if we invaded the same way we did during the first Iraq War the fighting wouldnt have lasted nearly as long
 
my mom is in afghanistan right now supervising a women's hospital and I can verify thru her 100 percent that german troops have been and are engaged in combat operations, and have been for years.

give me a day or so and i could even provide photographic evidence.

if that isnt enough here are a few links to crush your statement

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/18/europe/EU_GEN_Germany_Afghanistan.php
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/135600.html
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/feb2005/afgh-f25.shtml
 
It's cool, I misread your post and thought you were talking about there being German troops in Iraq. My bad.
 
Is it possible that its a german mercenary army not having anything to due with the German national army?
 
no. why the fuck would angela merkel, the president of germany visit a German Private Military Corporation? The only PMC that i am aware of that is operating in afghanistan is blackwater
 
What evedince do you have to support that statement, especially the part about them wanting a secular democracy? Not everyone in the world wants a secular democracy which is in fact very protestant due to it's nature. The modern form of secular democracy is based off of the treaty of westaphilia (sp?) a few hundred years ago. this treaty gave each German state the ability to choose it's own religion, independent of the holy roman empire. This was revolutionary at the time. It was the first step towards allowing people to choose their own religion. While this might seem secular from the initial glance it is however deeply rooted in protestantism. At the root of protestantism is the one true teaching of Jesus: Love one another. It therefore does not require that people accept the Christian god to be admitted to heaven but only that they lead lives that are unselfish and that they somewhat live their life as a christian would without being christian. Islam is however entirely different. The prophet did not think of Islam as a religion, but instead as a nation. While Jesus did not so much as mention politics, they play a very important part in Islam. Therefore to be a true Muslim one must follow Islamic law.
 
dude you need a chill pill. and i still want to know why you are calling our troops uneducated and ignorant?
 
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1395054/postsMasoud Kazemzadeh and Shahla Azizi, Iranian.com:

One of the most vexing questions animating observers and analysts of Iranian politics is: why despite being extremely unpopular and incompetent, are the fundamentalists still in power?

One factor that may provide a partial explanation is the huge change of

the dominant ethos among large sectors of the population.

In

the 1970s and 1980s, the dominant ethos among large sectors of the

Iranian people was idealistic, altruistic, and celebrated sacrifice for

the greater good.

Today, on the contrary, the

predominant ethos have become excessive selfishness, acquisitiveness,

cynicism, and lack of willingness to make the smallest sacrifice to

protect the common good.

This pendulum-like swing from one extreme to the other has a deleterious impact on the outcome of political struggles in Iran. If

this observation is correct, although the overwhelming majority of

Iranians are opposed to the ruling Islamic fundamentalist regime, the

vast majority are unwilling to pay the price of replacing it.

Anecdotal and statistical evidence of the alienation of the youth from the fundamentalist regime are overwhelming. For example, a government conducted survey revealed that

  • 86 percent of the youth say that they do not perform the obligatory daily Islamic prayer.



In early 2003 a large Internet poll of students of the Amir Kabir University (the second most prestigious university in Iran) was conducted.
  • Only 6 percent of the students said that they support the hardliners, while another
  • 4 percent said they support the reformists within the regime.


  • A mere 5 percent said they support the return of the former monarchy.
  • Most significantly, 85 percent of the students said that they would support the establishment of a secular and democratic republic.

Why

then out of two million students at institutions of higher education,

would only a few thousand participate in pro-democracy sit-ins and

protests?

In a large survey of 15 to 29 year-olds

published in January of this year, some interesting data have been

released. The survey entitled “The Values and Opinions of the 15-29

Year Old Youth,” revealed that 59 percent of male and 57 percent of female respondents said “each person should think only of oneself.” To the question on “are people honest and forthright in public,” 79 percent of males and 82 percent of females responded “no.” And 50.4 percent of males and 39 percent of females said that they “would welcome the opportunity to emigrate abroad.”

This

is the generation that was petrified under the rains of scud missiles

and aerial bombardment during the eight-year war with Iraq, and

survived Khomeini’s reign of terror where possession of banned

materials resulted in summary trials and mass executions, and

humiliated and lashed for infractions of the fundamentalists’

puritanical dictates. Monopolization of all levers of power by

fundamentalist clerics, incredible financial corruption by clerical

officials and their children, brutal suppression of dissents, cultural

suffocation, severe economic difficulties, astronomical rise in crime,

addiction, and prostitution have undermined the sense of common purpose

and common good.

For the overwhelming majority in this generation, personal survival trumps any notion of personal sacrifice for the common good. Thus in just one generation cynicism has replaced idealism among vast majority of the population. Economic hardships and lack of freedom have resulted in a mixture of materialism and individualism -- of coveting a Western life-style as seen on satellite television and of believing that it can be achieved only on a personal rather a societal level.

It is easier to imagine that you can move to the West and dress like

Brittany Spears than it is to believe that everyone can one day be like

her here in Iran.

The rise of Khatami and reformist

fundamentalists raised expectations that were quickly dashed, thus

dramatically increasing both frustration and hopelessness. The

inability of the once-popular President Khatami to implement any real

change has greatly disillusioned the more than seventy percent of the

electorate who voted for him. Today, his promise to create a more open

and secular society is perceived to have been nothing but a ploy to

prolong the fundamentalist theocrats in power. He is seen by many in

Iran at best as a powerless and incompetent idealist and at worst as a

sweet talking cleric propped up to deceive the malcontent inside and

critics abroad. The failure of the reformist faction of the

fundamentalists to maintain their hold onto Majles in February 2004

elections, underlined their inability to be regarded in public opinion

as viable vehicle for change.

The fundamentalist

regime has lost its ideological hegemony and political legitimacy, but

not its ability to coerce and intimidate into submission. In

addition, due to the enormous revenues from the sale of oil and natural

gas, the regime is able not only to keep its small social base content

but also to co-opt a few non-fundamentalists. While a few brave

pro-democracy activists and students continue to struggle against the

regime, for now at least, the overwhelming majority of the population

sits on the sidelines wishing them well but is unwilling to risk

life and liberty to replace the incumbent tyranny with a secular and

democratic republic that they obviously desire. Many so infected with

bizarre conspiracy theories, argue that the British have put the

clerics on power and only the American can take them down. This renders

any active participation superfluous because it is not the actions of

Iranians themselves that changes regimes but rather James-Bond-like

schemes behind the scenes.

Has apathy become a

feature of Iranian political culture for the foreseeable future or is

there a revolution brewing? The answer is not clear but we see several possibilities. One possibility is that Iranians have lost the will to confront their oppressors and

instead wish to engage purely in self-improvements devoid of any

broader considerations. The incredible brutality of the regime combined

with the now-prevailing ethos have reduced the possibilities of

nonviolent transition to democracy as have occurred recently in

Georgia, Ukraine, and Kyrgyzstan.

Another

possibility is that while apathy may be the outward appearance, there

is a cumulation of repressed anger, which may explode by a trigger.

A potential trigger may be an outrageous act by regime elements as

occurred in Lebanon by the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafiq

al-Hariri. Another trigger may be American military attacks on

fundamentalist coercive apparatuses such as Islamic Revolutionary

Guards Corps, Basij corps, Ansar-e Hezbollah vigilantes, Ministry of

Intelligence headquarters, and the like.

We do not believe that any military strikes on the nuclear facilities would serve as a trigger for mass uprising

as

some have argued in Washington. The reasons being that with coercive

apparatuses being intact, they have not only the power to crush any

uprising, but also the added motivation and anger to do so. Iranians

are angry at the coercive apparatuses for having oppressed and

repressed them for so long but not at any inanimate nuclear facility.

Another

trigger may be UN Security Council economic sanctions, which may lead

to runs on the banks, food stores, events that would put the masses in

confrontation with the coercive apparatuses. If the coercive

apparatuses did not open fire on the masses, then that would encourage

more valiant rioting and burning of government autos and buildings

cascading out of control. If the coercive apparatuses did open fire on

the masses, then that may increase responses by the masses on such a

scale that the regime would not be able to control and contain. The

UN Security Council international sanctions modeled after those imposed

on the Apartheid regime in South Africa and Burmese dictatorship may be

the least violent way to replace the ruling fundamentalists with a

secular and democratic republic that Iranians so wish.

Iran’s future looks grim in all of these possibilities. Time will tell which one would be the actual history.





 
because they are under forigen control. Sorry I misspoke, Germany is not allowed to send troops beyond it's boarders that are under the control of Germany. so there are allowed to be German mercenaries.

 
because its not really a secret that a volunteer army will mainly attract those downtrodden and in the lower middle class due to the Army's outstanding benefits. i.e. Gi Bill, free healthcare, etc.

I almost guarantee that if someone broke down the socio-economic backgrounds of most enlisted(not officers) troops in the Armed Forces, most would come from families with combined incomes of under $50,000
 
Thanks. People get way too angry over arguments like this in my opinion. It's an intellectual debate, not a fight.
 
the way the war was handled the first time we cut through the iraqis like butter, i think we made it to bagdad in less than a week. this time we went in half ass and took longer resulting in more us casualties
 
do you even know what it takes to be blackwater?

you need 8-9 yrs MIN of service, and they only take the best of the best. SEALS, special op, etc etc

you need top secret clearance and you have to be a FUCKING beast. the athletic tests they'd run you would kill you alone, before you even got an insurgent with some stolen assault rifle aimed at your temple in a dusty street. boot camp is like 10% of what blackwater is.

this is the funniest shit i've ever read from you, and you've written some real gems. you know nothing about combat, but apparently 'everything' about the war, which you've gleaned from biased sources and probably some quick Wiki reading when you're bored.

the disconnect between war and those who tout its merits would be hilarious if it weren't so disgusting.
 
you would have alot more credibility if you learned how to spell. And i provided links that proved there are German Troops operating in Afghanistan.

You still believe the sanctions imposed by the Allied nations on Germany still exist, when in fact they were repealed sometime in the 60s, when the threat of a Russian invasion from East Germany was a major fear for Nato. Under those circumstances, Germany,which was previously barred from having an operational air force and navy, was allowed to have a navy and airforce because of the aforementioned reason.
 
one of my good friend's dads was responsible for getting blackwater their first government contract. I'm sure beyond a shadow of a doubt I could be hooked up with at least an analyst assignment with them.
 
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