Where would YOU build a new ski resort?

[mountaindewgirl]

Wow! What a great question that has totally taken my evening down an exciting rabbit hole.

It started with, "Hmm I wonder if there are any privately owned 14ers?"

But now that I've typed this up, holy smokes, I think I've got quite a hell of an answer on whether there could ever be another Jackson Hole in America.

BEHOLD!

The Culebra Range in Southern Colorado:





Nearly the whole damn thing is an 83,000 acre private ranch that spans 23 miles over the ridgeline. It has 19 summits above 13k ft, including the 14'er Culebra Peak. It sold in 2017 to an undisclosed buyer for $105 Million.

How in the hell did someone buy a 14er? What are they gonna do with it?

This evening, I've put on my investigative journalist beanie and found some very interesting info about this range.

Timeline:

1844: Mexico granted 1 million acres, including the Culebra Range, to French Canadian trapper Charles Beaubien in the Sangre de Cristo Land Grant.

1863: Colorado's first governor, William Gilpin, bought up that 1 million acres from the Sangre de Cristo Land Grant.

1960: A North Carolina logging company buys the Culebra Range

1988: The Culebra Range changes hands again, and the descents of early Spanish settlers began a decades long legal battle over land rights.

2002: The state grants commercial land rights for logging and grazing on the Culebra Range.

2004: A Texan rancher, Bobby Hill buys the Culebra Range for ~$50 million.

2007: Eccentric billionaire (lol read about his Bahamian feud with Peter Nygard:https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/12/peter-nygard-louis-bacon-legal-battle-bahamas) and hedge fund owner/conservationist, Luis Moore Bacon, buys a whopping 173,000 acres of land that surrounds the Culebra Range from the Forbes (of Forbes magazine) family for $175 million and locks it in a land conservation trust.

https://louisbacon.com/

2013: Same billionaire guy, Luis Moore Bacon, who had a house in Taos since 1966, purchases Taos Ski Valley Resort from the Blake Family. Homeboy was the mastermind that developed the base area and slapped the Kachina Peak lift in.

2017: The 83,000 acre ranch that includes the Culebra Range was sold to a "mystery buyer" for $105 million. All we know about this mystery buyer is what the broker said at the press conference from the sale:

"The profile of the buyer is absolutely ideal. He is one who is a true conservationist and is deeply committed to preserving this national treasure and extraordinary resource. He truly appreciates and embraces the responsibility of ensuring this property remains a reflection of our state’s beautiful landscapes, diverse wildlife and heritage for decades to come.”

DUDES! The mystery buyer has totally got to be that Louis Bacon billionaire guy that owns Taos! I mean he already has like $175 million of skin the game for the surrounding area.

Well guys, you know what I think?

I'm swapping my investigative journalist beanie for my tin foil hat.

This is my crackpot theory:

Taos was just a practice run. An avenue to begin building and planning for a future in the Culebra Range.

Bacon is gonna keep the 173,000 acres of surrounding areas pristine in the conservation trust.

Then he's gonna take his 83,000 acres of the mountainous Culebra Range to develop a GLORIOUS MULTIRESORT SKI EMPIRE - full of big-mountain lifts and posh lodges and insane mansions and charming towns.

Idk maybe somehow he can use the neighboring conservation trust to do all the development tax free? Total billionaire move.

To think, Bacon thought he was gonna be all hush hush about it.

Well, nothing cool in the industry happens without Ski Gabber knowing about it!

 

[mountaindewgirl]

Here is the snowfall totals for the Culebra Range. It is in that purple band by Cuchara Mountain Park (a little 50 acre public park)

 

[oldmanski]

Wow! What a great question that has totally taken my evening down an exciting rabbit hole.

It started with, "Hmm I wonder if there are any privately owned 14ers?"

But now that I've typed this up, holy smokes, I think I've got quite a hell of an answer on whether there could ever be another Jackson Hole in America.

BEHOLD!

The Culebra Range in Southern Colorado:

View attachment 1001094

View attachment 1001095

Nearly the whole damn thing is an 83,000 acre private ranch that spans 23 miles over the ridgeline. It has 19 summits above 13k ft, including the 14'er Culebra Peak. It sold in 2017 to an undisclosed buyer for $105 Million.

How in the hell did someone buy a 14er? What are they gonna do with it?

This evening, I've put on my investigative journalist beanie and found some very interesting info about this range.

Timeline:

1844: Mexico granted 1 million acres, including the Culebra Range, to French Canadian trapper Charles Beaubien in the Sangre de Cristo Land Grant.

1863: Colorado's first governor, William Gilpin, bought up that 1 million acres from the Sangre de Cristo Land Grant.

1960: A North Carolina logging company buys the Culebra Range

1988: The Culebra Range changes hands again, and the descents of early Spanish settlers began a decades long legal battle over land rights.

2002: The state grants commercial land rights for logging and grazing on the Culebra Range.

2004: A Texan rancher, Bobby Hill buys the Culebra Range for ~$50 million.

2007: Eccentric billionaire (lol read about his Bahamian feud with Peter Nygard:https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/12/peter-nygard-louis-bacon-legal-battle-bahamas) and hedge fund owner/conservationist, Luis Moore Bacon, buys a whopping 173,000 acres of land that surrounds the Culebra Range from the Forbes (of Forbes magazine) family for $175 million and locks it in a land conservation trust.

View attachment 1001096https://louisbacon.com/

2013: Same billionaire guy, Luis Moore Bacon, who had a house in Taos since 1966, purchases Taos Ski Valley Resort from the Blake Family. Homeboy was the mastermind that developed the base area and slapped the Kachina Peak lift in.

2017: The 83,000 acre ranch that includes the Culebra Range was sold to a "mystery buyer" for $105 million. All we know about this mystery buyer is what the broker said at the press conference from the sale:

"The profile of the buyer is absolutely ideal. He is one who is a true conservationist and is deeply committed to preserving this national treasure and extraordinary resource. He truly appreciates and embraces the responsibility of ensuring this property remains a reflection of our state’s beautiful landscapes, diverse wildlife and heritage for decades to come.”

DUDES! The mystery buyer has totally got to be that Louis Bacon billionaire guy that owns Taos! I mean he already has like $175 million of skin the game for the surrounding area.

Well guys, you know what I think?

I'm swapping my investigative journalist beanie for my tin foil hat.

This is my crackpot theory:

Taos was just a practice run. An avenue to begin building and planning for a future in the Culebra Range.

Bacon is gonna keep the 173,000 acres of surrounding areas pristine in the conservation trust.

Then he's gonna take his 83,000 acres of the mountainous Culebra Range to develop a GLORIOUS MULTIRESORT SKI EMPIRE - full of big-mountain lifts and posh lodges and insane mansions and charming towns.

Idk maybe somehow he can use the neighboring conservation trust to do all the development tax free? Total billionaire move.

To think, Bacon thought he was gonna be all hush hush about it.

Well, nothing cool in the industry happens without Ski Gabber knowing about it!

Here is the snowfall totals for the Culebra Range. It is in that purple band by Cuchara Mountain Park (a little 50 acre public park)

Very interesting and good write up! We can all hope this is the case and a new Jackson Hole opens up!

 

[mountaindewgirl]

Here is the snowfall totals for the Culebra Range. It is in that purple band by Cuchara Mountain Park (a little 50 acre public park)

 

[doubleblackjack]

Probably the white mountains up in NH. sick terrain up there and massive vert for east coast

 

[BradFiAusNzCoCa]

Yeah it was right behind Heavenly and that was one of the issues was. Building the road in almost broke the budget! Haha

I was just looking through the slides and wow - it got really detailed with trail and lift analysis. I’ve attached a slide or two but not the analysis because it’s kinda ?

I was there when Alan Walker was president. He was the man. I saw Ed speak once or twice but never really talked to him. He seemed like a nice guy. I think he was a businessman in the area before?

Should've called it Heavenly 2.0!

In all honesty that sounds like an awesome project. The interim President Ed Zschau was really proud of that course last time I spoke with him. It was a big inspiration for creating the Ski Area and Resort Management Degree

**This post was edited on Apr 16th 2021 at 12:07:26pm

 

[Lonely]

Not a new resort but always thought it be cool to own and operate one of the upper peninsula resorts such as Marquette or Brule. A little investment in amenities and marketing down state and promote it as a more 'rustic' and budget friendly alternative to Boyne. That'd be cool.

Brule is such a weird little place. I love it though, and the are always the first open.

In terms of a new resort, it'd be cool to see something similar to boho in the Huron Mountain region. Close enough to Marquette that there is the population and work force to support it, some good rocky terrain, great snow and good views.

 

[r00kie]

Brule is such a weird little place. I love it though, and the are always the first open.

In terms of a new resort, it'd be cool to see something similar to boho in the Huron Mountain region. Close enough to Marquette that there is the population and work force to support it, some good rocky terrain, great snow and good views.

That'd be a cool spot for sure. Tricky part with the UP is not oversaturating the market. Not many folks live up there so getting tourism dollars would be necessary to make it work which will face push back from locals. You would know better than me since you've been living up there for awhile now though. I got make a trip up to the north shore again.

 

[SendyMcSendyface]

Now would be a good time to think about building one near Whitehorse. Whitehorse itself doesn't get much snow, but if ya head out towards Haines it gets good. Its growing really fast too, tons of people moving up there. Just need to solve the housing crisis. Its also far enough north that climate change isn't a huge worry.

 

[Drail]

Now would be a good time to think about building one near Whitehorse. Whitehorse itself doesn't get much snow, but if ya head out towards Haines it gets good. Its growing really fast too, tons of people moving up there. Just need to solve the housing crisis. Its also far enough north that climate change isn't a huge worry.

Yeah, as long as you can convince people to travel up there in the middle of winter for cold night skiing. In the right spot though it could just push it's season further into spring. Scandinavia (Finland in particular) manages to have a successful ski industry all the way up there in the dark, cold winter months, so Canada might be able to. When it stops snowing in Whistler Village 5 hours of daylight in Whitehorse might just be par for course to keep the sport going.

 

[hi_vis360]

Now would be a good time to think about building one near Whitehorse. Whitehorse itself doesn't get much snow, but if ya head out towards Haines it gets good. Its growing really fast too, tons of people moving up there. Just need to solve the housing crisis. Its also far enough north that climate change isn't a huge worry.

Isn't Mt. Sima like 20 mins outside town? I agree though, a larger resort out towards Haines could be insane.

And as far as climate change goes, places like the Yukon are actually predicted to get wetter and snowier as the climate warms. A lot of people in this thread don't realize that most of the arctic is technically a desert and it's basically too cold to snow. The most northern part of greenland is actually ice free because of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peary_Land

 

[SendyMcSendyface]

Isn't Mt. Sima like 20 mins outside town? I agree though, a larger resort out towards Haines could be insane.

And as far as climate change goes, places like the Yukon are actually predicted to get wetter and snowier as the climate warms. A lot of people in this thread don't realize that most of the arctic is technically a desert and it's basically too cold to snow. The most northern part of greenland is actually ice free because of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peary_Land

Ya, Sima is super close, but not much bigger than some east coast stuff. There's so much terrain towards Haines, it could be fucking ridiculous. It might not be financially viable now, but I could see it being possible in 20 years.

**This post was edited on Apr 16th 2021 at 3:13:38pm

 

[hi_vis360]

Ya, Sima is super close, but not much bigger than some east coast stuff. There's so much terrain towards Haines, it could be fucking ridiculous. It might not be financially viable now, but I could see it being possible in 20 years.

**This post was edited on Apr 16th 2021 at 3:13:38pm

word, I didn't realize it was that small. I know some guys in Nova Scotia go there early season and I think I've seen ABM post early season clips from there too, seems like that could also be a potential market. It def gets cold early there, when I visited there were hard frosts in the middle of august

 

[mott]

Step 1) acquire landfill

Step 2) cover it in dirt

Step 3) put a tow rope and some sick rails on it

Step 4) ?????

Step 5) Profit

this is word for word step by step exactly what my local did lmao

 

[Tripleblacks]

This is my crackpot theory:

Taos was just a practice run.

Definitely a practice run at destroying the soul of a ski resort. That guy is basically pricing out everyone. It has been really sad to see the soul of a ski resort turn into high-end condos. Hopefully, he doesn’t buy anymore ski resorts.

 

[Tripleblacks]

I would expand wolf creek or expand copper all the way to vail pass.

I am so glad Wolfcreek has dedicated locals shutting down a village at the base. It is nice to see a ski resort keep something sacred.

**This post was edited on Apr 17th 2021 at 12:47:01am

 

[mountaindewgirl]

Definitely a practice run at destroying the soul of a ski resort. That guy is basically pricing out everyone. It has been really sad to see the soul of a ski resort turn into high-end condos. Hopefully, he doesn’t buy anymore ski resorts.

I, for one, vote to desecrate the Culebra Range with the siiiiickest ski resort.

Edit: [tag=266827]@oldmanski[/tag]

**This post was edited on Apr 20th 2021 at 3:06:44am

 

[oldmanski]

I, for one, vote to desecrate the Culebra Range with the siiiiickest ski resort.

Edit: [tag=266827]@oldmanski[/tag]

**This post was edited on Apr 20th 2021 at 3:06:44am

We can hope for another sick mountain!

 

[WisconsinDogfart]

https://42floors.com/us/mi/vulcan/n2090-briar-mountain-rd

 

[switchlip2]

https://www.dcski.com/lostareas/viewlostprofile.php?id=87



https://www.landsofamerica.com/property/RT-33-TORY--MOUNTAIN-(RR)-Harman-West-Virginia-26270/2276063/



anyone here a millionaire wanna built this resort

 

[SofaKingSick]

y'all gotta think bigger...tackier...

we'll need a lot of snow guns for this one. would like to put a bar/restaurant inside washington's head too

 

[switchlip2]

y'all gotta think bigger...tackier...

we'll need a lot of snow guns for this one. would like to put a bar/restaurant inside washington's head too

Lincoln’s couloir would be a great run!!

 

[guelah_papyrus]

Here is the snowfall totals for the Culebra Range. It is in that purple band by Cuchara Mountain Park (a little 50 acre public park)

I've been to Cuchara multiple times this year after a huge storm. Saturday - ski wolf creek. Sunday - half day wolf creek, half day skinning up Cuchara mountain park and enjoying untouched snow. Can confirm they get dumped on a lot

 

[PsychicMigration]

Chairlift to nowhere analogy really hit home seems to me that most resorts are like this nowadays especially US mega resorts.

 

[SurfinCow]

https://www.dcski.com/lostareas/viewlostprofile.php?id=87



https://www.landsofamerica.com/property/RT-33-TORY--MOUNTAIN-(RR)-Harman-West-Virginia-26270/2276063/



anyone here a millionaire wanna built this resort

youd think for 4 million they could afford a better camera to take pictures

 

[BrandoComando]

youd think for 4 million they could afford a better camera to take pictures

Mornin' Clarence!

Mornin' Leroy!

Mind if ya help me take an ol' daguerreotype of these here woods? The whippersnappers are a-pesterin' me to put this ol' homestead up for sale

 

[Tripleblacks]

I, for one, vote to desecrate the Culebra Range with the siiiiickest ski resort.

If it was the siiiiickest ski resort I would not be so grumpy about it! The problem is the go to in resort management seems to be ¨how can we make our resort similar to Vail?¨

 

[BradFiAusNzCoCa]

That’s because Vail makes money

If it was the siiiiickest ski resort I would not be so grumpy about it! The problem is the go to in resort management seems to be ¨how can we make our resort similar to Vail?¨

 

[SkiBum.]

Utah needs more resorts honestly, but all in park city with Ikon preferred dining passes for them too.

Utah doesn't need anymore resorts, just better accessibility and transit systems/infrastructure to accommodate. Like seriously? Still no ski busses from the Heber Valley into PC? Totally wack. If we gotta mow over some shitty neighborhoods in cottonwood heights, then so be it.

**This post was edited on Apr 15th 2021 at 2:18:55pm

Utah is getting 2. Building has already started. Lifts will be in by end of summer.

Mayflower will be the only public one. And you’re still another 2+ years from having skis on snow. It won’t be good. South facing low elevation.

Wasatch Peaks is still a go. Lifts going in this summer with trail cutting. None of us will ski there. 100% private.

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

Yeah, same dude who ran Deer Valley.

Utah is getting 2. Building has already started. Lifts will be in by end of summer.

Mayflower will be the only public one. And you’re still another 2+ years from having skis on snow. It won’t be good. South facing low elevation.

Wasatch Peaks is still a go. Lifts going in this summer with trail cutting. None of us will ski there. 100% private.

 

[SofaKingSick]

Utah is getting 2. Building has already started. Lifts will be in by end of summer.

Mayflower will be the only public one. And you’re still another 2+ years from having skis on snow. It won’t be good. South facing low elevation.

"south facing, low elevation"

WHY? idk anything about this place, is there already progress made or something? why would anyone set themselves up for difficulty like that?

 

[Notaskibum]

None of us will ski there. 100% private.

Bold of you to assume my daddy isn't rich af

 

[BrandoComando]

"south facing, low elevation"

WHY? idk anything about this place, is there already progress made or something? why would anyone set themselves up for difficulty like that?

Is Mayflower a new resort entirely? From my quick googling it seems like an extension to Deer Valley. Akin to a smaller version of PC/Canyons. The trail maps are connected and the DV logo is on most media.

A new resort entirely seems stupid with those factors, but an extension to an existing resort makes a little more sense

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

"south facing, low elevation"

WHY? idk anything about this place, is there already progress made or something? why would anyone set themselves up for difficulty like that?

The developers don't care about the skiing, it's the real estate to go with it they care about.

 

[dolanslebensraum]

View attachment 1001108

Wolf creek has culebra and everybody ftm fucking owned

 

[Notaskibum]

The developers don't care about the skiing, it's the real estate to go with it they care about.

Also tbh who cares if the snow isn't amazing, this isn't supposed to be a new jackson hole.

If this new resort has tasty groomers and can reduce crowds at PC and it's a win in my book. Maybe they'll even put in a park.

 

[SkiBum.]

Yeah it’s brand new. It’s on the south/south east side of Deer Valley. They are right next to each other. I bet the base of Mayflower averages 50” of snow a year. But they don’t care about skiing, it’s just real estate with a ski area there because. Extel are the developers, they are huge players out of Manhattan with fuck you money.

Is Mayflower a new resort entirely? From my quick googling it seems like an extension to Deer Valley. Akin to a smaller version of PC/Canyons. The trail maps are connected and the DV logo is on most media.

A new resort entirely seems stupid with those factors, but an extension to an existing resort makes a little more sense

 

[guelah_papyrus]

The owner of Wolf creek has been trying to expand the place for decades and turn it into vail. Been a ongoing legal battle against the FS for like 30 + years I think. He's a texan that also owns the Minnesota vikings I think

 

[SkiBum.]

I don’t see this place having a park

Also tbh who cares if the snow isn't amazing, this isn't supposed to be a new jackson hole.

If this new resort has tasty groomers and can reduce crowds at PC and it's a win in my book. Maybe they'll even put in a park.

 

[brosasaki]

Chain of bristle-equipped rail and airbag parks throughout the US southeast and in areas with a short season

 

[Jacobthesadskier]

I think a ski resort in Afghanistan would be brilliant. What better way to train for ski racing than a load of militants chasing you down the slope shooting AK-47's at you?

 

[Drail]

I think a ski resort in Afghanistan would be brilliant. What better way to train for ski racing than a load of militants chasing you down the slope shooting AK-47's at you?

I think this is sarcasm, but:

I'm not sure they get enough snow there. I have friends who have skied Gulmarg which was great. A friend skied at a resort by Almaty, Kazakhstan and it barely had enough snow in early spring. Another friend did a season guiding in Kyrgyzstan and the snowpack was super weird. Extremely aspects dependent, and went isothermic a lot, even in the middle of winter. I think the high elevation makes the thermal radiation from the sun too intense.

I'm sure there is somewhere in Afghanistan worthy of a ski hill, but there are no proper cities in the big mountains there so it'd be crazy hard to be successful, even if the country was more inviting to tourists.

The whole 'top fo the world' region is just too far out there in all ways to even try.

 

[mountaindewgirl]

Is Mayflower a new resort entirely? From my quick googling it seems like an extension to Deer Valley. Akin to a smaller version of PC/Canyons. The trail maps are connected and the DV logo is on most media.

A new resort entirely seems stupid with those factors, but an extension to an existing resort makes a little more sense

Yeah it’s brand new. It’s on the south/south east side of Deer Valley. They are right next to each other. I bet the base of Mayflower averages 50” of snow a year. But they don’t care about skiing, it’s just real estate with a ski area there because. Extel are the developers, they are huge players out of Manhattan with fuck you money.

So Mayflower Resort, a $1 billion ultra luxury resort, is well into construction. Last gossip I heard from my site: Fall last year utilities guys were burying a huge ass water tank for snowmaking; bids for the new lodges were submitted last December; lifts are estimated to start turning as early as 2023.

It's happening, and it's happening soon

 

[mountaindewgirl]

I think a ski resort in Afghanistan would be brilliant. What better way to train for ski racing than a load of militants chasing you down the slope shooting AK-47's at you?

Basically Gulmarg. The resort boundary sorta borders the India/Pakistan border, so there is Indian Army posted there on patrol. My guide was telling me that they don't use a few of their runs at the resort because if you get in eyeshot of the patrol, they'll sic the dogs on you. The officers think it's hilarious to train their dogs to maul the tourists and be like "Oops we thought he was making a run for the border".

Sure as shit, while I was there, an entire family of Europeans (Dad, mom, teenage son) were skiing unguided, probably wanted to go get a look into Pakistan, and got mauled. Ski vacation cut short to get rabies shots and God knows what else to disentangle themselves from the officers.

I do not recommend anyone to go there.

 

[hemlockjibber8]

Bridal Falls/Cheam Range has been proposed for decades. It would actually be pretty sick if it happened. Unreal terrain, lots of population, enough elevation at least for short term. But the slack country would be sick. I've always wanted to ski the south face of lady peak mid winter.

 

[BradFiAusNzCoCa]

Wow. That sounds awful

Basically Gulmarg. The resort boundary sorta borders the India/Pakistan border, so there is Indian Army posted there on patrol. My guide was telling me that they don't use a few of their runs at the resort because if you get in eyeshot of the patrol, they'll sic the dogs on you. The officers think it's hilarious to train their dogs to maul the tourists and be like "Oops we thought he was making a run for the border".

Sure as shit, while I was there, an entire family of Europeans (Dad, mom, teenage son) were skiing unguided, probably wanted to go get a look into Pakistan, and got mauled. Ski vacation cut short to get rabies shots and God knows what else to disentangle themselves from the officers.

I do not recommend anyone to go there.

 

[Jacobthesadskier]

Basically Gulmarg. The resort boundary sorta borders the India/Pakistan border, so there is Indian Army posted there on patrol. My guide was telling me that they don't use a few of their runs at the resort because if you get in eyeshot of the patrol, they'll sic the dogs on you. The officers think it's hilarious to train their dogs to maul the tourists and be like "Oops we thought he was making a run for the border".

Sure as shit, while I was there, an entire family of Europeans (Dad, mom, teenage son) were skiing unguided, probably wanted to go get a look into Pakistan, and got mauled. Ski vacation cut short to get rabies shots and God knows what else to disentangle themselves from the officers.

I do not recommend anyone to go there.

Well, my plans to go to Gulmarg next year are somewhat shaky now.

 

[theabortionator]

Looking to buy a house in the next 2-3 years (southern NH most likely) and one of my "must haves" is some sort of slope in the backyard so I can setup some rails and a tiny-pump track.

Little backyard with some beers, a campfire and grill are all need to be happy and ya'll are invited once this is my reality

If you need help building some rails or a mini ramp for the garage give me a shout.

 

[SkiBum.]

No one uses water tanks for snowmaking. They will be pulling from the Jordenelle which already has people pissed, even tho DV does the same.

Its been a while since I’ve gone that way but they are not doing anything fast. No rush...still not a a lot done or going on

So Mayflower Resort, a $1 billion ultra luxury resort, is well into construction. Last gossip I heard from my site: Fall last year utilities guys were burying a huge ass water tank for snowmaking; bids for the new lodges were submitted last December; lifts are estimated to start turning as early as 2023.

It's happening, and it's happening soon

 

[Treegrabber]

Ur mom