Vegetarianism

It's not an argument FOR eating meat, it's an argument against agriculture, which includes the domestication of animals. There's a difference between being a hunter and hunting what lives in the forest and clear cutting so you can have a cattle farm. Just as there is a difference between the gatherer who lives off of what is there and the person who lives off of the vast plains of soy growing in our heartland.

either way you're living against the laws of nature
 
Exactly, look at your teeth.

Although I do concede (to Matty and others) that we North Americans eat waaay too much meat. Not only is it probably unhealthy, but it also isn't sustainable. As someone mentioned with cutting down rain forest for cattle grazing. The problem is only going to get worse as other previously low-income cultures gain more wealth and follow more European or North American eating habits. And I'm as bad as the rest of them, I love my meat, usually eat it in some fashion every day. I probably should stop, but it's just so damn good.

The way it will hit us is when it becomes too expensive to do so as frequently as we do now. And controlling our portions (in Canada/US/UK) would go a long way to help. We don't need 3 cheeseburgers at lunch and a 16 oz steak at dinner.

But going back to vegetarianism, I don't really have a problem with it unless it is aggressively pushed on me.
 
From a culinary point of view, vegetarianism is pretty lame because meat fat is so important, not only for taste but also for it's chemical properties and the way it renders vegetables...ooh yah ask any chef.
 
I've often thought about becoming vegetarian. It's not something I'd be motivated to do because of moral reasons though, mostly for health.
 
Good points everyone, I'm not trying to start the hate here but I am just curious about people's point of view.

To those who eat meat, how do you justify it? What about animals makes it alright to kill them while it is not alright to kill humans? Or do you just not worry about that and enjoy the meat?

I'm not trying to call anyone a murderer or criticize someone's lifestyle, but I have been thinking about vegetarianism for a while and I personally believe the arguments for it are much more valid than any counter-argument. One of my teachers (not a vegetarian) suggested meat eating might become one of those things that future humans look back on and wonder how we justified it to ourselves, comparable to slavery in the past. What do you think?
 
I don't understand this whole thing comparing killing animals to killing humans. Its the same reason bears kill fish but not other bears, its against their nature.

And I doubt we are just going to stop eating meat one day seeing as how people have been eating meat since the beginning of our existence.
 
dude, if it wasn't agaisnt the law, i can think of plenty of people i'd kill and eat. unfortunately, i don't make the laws, and i'd rather not get punished for breaking them.

the plain and simple fact of the matter is that humans are blessed enough to have the best of both worlds, we are omnivores, we have always been omnivores, and nothing is going to change that. becoming a herbivore (which is not natural, can't dispute that) is something i could never imagine doing, but that's just me. it's easier for me to get my nutrients by eating meat, and i enjoy hunting as well as picking out the ground beef at safeway, but it doesn't mean i would try to give up eating fruits and veggies as well, which is pretty much what vegetarians do, except on the other side of the spectrum.

there are a lot of vegetarians who call us omnivores crazy for eating meat as well as veggies, but imagine if they met someone who only ate meat. they would be just as flabbergasted about that as we are about them .it's just not natural, if we are given meat and fruits and veggies as an edible and healthy source of food, why not take advantage of it? if i ever heard a vegetarian complain about somebody eating only meat for the rest of their life, i would have no choice but to call them a hypocrite, because they would have also given up their natural right to take full advantage of what they've been given.

as the dominant omnivores on this planet, it is our right to eat anything that can't defend itself from us, this includes both plants and animals. if plants could walk around and make noise, i'd like to know whether the vegetarians of today would still eat them, or if they would try to give them rights and simply stop eating altogether.

i don't want to argue about this, it's my opinion and i don't think it's the wrong one, i'm just trying to explain why vegetarianism is no stranger than eating meat and nothing else.
 
I guess I'm kind of torn on the idea of vegetarianism. I tried it last year for awhile and ended up getting kind of sick from lack of iron..I know..I could have taken supplements but I didn't want to deal with the hassle.
But one very valid reason for being a vegetarian would be this: "If American-type countries would reduce their meat consumption by just 10%, enough grain would be saved to feed 60 million people. This figure is close enough to the number of people that die from hunger-related diseases each year. It would also free enough land and resources to grow over 12 million tons of grain annually -- enough to feed all those who died of starvation. This happens while millions agonize over one diet after another..."http://www.innvista.com/HEALTH/nutrition/diet/vworld.htm

Also - to the kids out there who are already veggies...what do you think about this?:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4148164.stm
 
It is just as natural as having huge amounts of land under cultivation, using tons of fertilizer, herbicide, pesticide etc to grow crops for human consumption...
my family raises its own beef cattle. no chemicals or preservatives.. i think thats pretty natural. but the immorally killing animals might be, oh wait no... humans have been doing that for ever. natural.
 
Except that grain that could feed 60 million starving people, still wouldn't go to those starving people even if we did that. You see, to live on this earth now requires money. And if you don't have it, you die. Companies and governments have really taken people's god given rights to live off the land away. You see, they own the earth now, so you basically need to pay rent. Or they evict your ass, aka death.

So all that grain that would be saved would just go into this countries food stores until people came with dollars in hand. Everyone always talks about starving people in africa, send money to starving people in another country. Well guess what? There are LOTS of starving kids and adults in the good ole USA also. But no one sees or cares. All the while that extra food goes to the ever expanding fatties that don't need that extra food.

So that is a DUMB argument that is so flawed it's not even funny. Btw not hating on you, hating on dumb PETA or whatever animal lobbying group came up with that glorious argument.
 
Please read the last part of my post. Don't take it as hating on you, cause that wasn't directed at you at all. It's meant for PETA and other groups that really think that was a great compelling argument against eating meat. It's just so flawed it's actually embarrassing that that is what some people come to the table with to try and sway people.
 
Alot of people say stuff like this, but it really doesn't make much sense. Quite a few people picked you apart pretty well, however:

Eating Organic does nothing to promote better welfare for animals. If that is truly what vegetarians believe in, then eating Organic is not the way to go. Just because something is "Organic" doesn't mean it's any better. First of all, people say that adding all kinds of chemicals can give you cancer and is unhealthy for you. For the large majority of compounds, we don't know what they do. Additionally, fully "natural" products have a ton of chemicals inside them that we have no idea what kind of effect they would have on the human body. Just because something may have synthetic chemicals on it or added to it doesn't always make it worse. Claiming so is just ignorant.

Additionally to that, being Organic is just as bad as eating regular food from the grocery store. "Organic" practices can use a ton more energy and produce more waste.

As to the antibiotic argument. Sure, alot of hormones and antibiotics may not be the best thing to injest. However, I don't really want to eat a slice of meat that has never had ANY drugs in it. That meat could be full of all kinds of micro-organisms that the antibiotics killed. Once again, saying all antibiotics are horrible for you and the animal is just ignorant. I would rather eat meat from a healthy cow than from one that has never seen any form of boost to their immune system.
 
fine. touche. I guess you did make a valid point that if we did have leftover grain from our decreased meat consumption the grain probably still wouldn't make it to those who need it the most. you win.
 
there is a good argument for both sides, people say eating meat is natural, because we are naturally meat eaters, its out instinct. some people say that its instinct for animals, but us being humans, we can make that choice, its not our instinct any more, its something we can control and we dont need it to survive.
personally i see a good argument on both sides, but really i dont care enough, i dont eat alot of meat just cause i like other stuff more, but i have no problem eating a burger or whatever every now and then.
this is my poorly thought out argument, plants are living organisms, like animals and humans, with plants being the least intelegent, plants really are pretty cofusing, some can adapt for different weather, protect themselves from predators, shit some are even meat eaters like the venus fly trap. then there are animals with different levels of intelegence, its hard to tell if animals have emotion, or if its just instinct. then we get to humans, we have emotions, love, are extremely smart etc... the point is, we are all living organisms, and we are all edible.
so really vegitarians are eating what used to be a living organism, just an organism with no ability to really think, meat eaters are eating organisms that are still very dumb and dont have emotion, but have instinct.
so if i had to give my opinion, the smarter the organism the worse it is, i could care less if someone eats something that can live without a head (chicken) animals like that are dumb as shit, the only thing that makes them resist dying is instinct, even plants can defend themselves, so really i dont care. but if its something like a dolphin, elephant, dog or something much smarter, which might have some kind of emotions, then i start to think its a little cruel.
 
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