Vail season pass sales numbers

P

pow_pow~

Active member
im currently in an argument with someone who thinks season passes means more to vail because

"Season passes mean a lot in the American market cause they mean people are going to come to them and spend more money on ski hire, food, accomodation etc"

im trying to find numbers to shut him up, he doesnt really know what he's talking about. i cant find recorded sales for season passes. only lifts which *(exclude season pass sales).

if anyone can point me in the right direction that would be great
 
Day ticket sales do wayyyyyyy more. They have potential to buy a ticket,food,rentals,lodging,lessons. Plus isn't an epic pass cheaper than buying 5 days worth of lift tickets.
 
13387894:jensen said:
page 7, "Season pass products generated approximately 40% of our total lift revenue for the 2013/2014 ski season."
Click to expand...

Sorry for the triple post...

Vails season pass sales account for 14% of their total net revenue including mountain, lodging, and real estate.

447,271 Lift Revenue

x 40%

= 178,908 Season Pass Revenue

/ 1,254,646 Total Revenue

= 14%

(all $ amounts in x000s)
 
In Vail resorts near holidays 5 day tickets is as much as an epic pass... Day tickets are way more. Vail must be hella loaded
 
Yeah they make money off of us at the start. But think about it this way. IF you buy your epic pass for 750 and you shred 75 times. Its about 10$ a day to ski. And I would say most of us bring our own lunch and don't buy anything in the lodge. So they really aren't making much money off of skiers like us. Its the tourists that come and rent skis and stay in the nice hotels and buy all their food there that they really make money off of.

Its the same with ski shops and brands. Most brands know that they don't make much off off the serious skiers. I don't know about you but I haven't paid full retail for something in years. The serious riders all get preform and shop discounts and such.
 
Yeah they make money off of us at the start. But think about it this way. IF you buy your epic pass for 750 and you shred 75 times. Its about 10$ a day to ski. And I would say most of us bring our own lunch and don't buy anything in the lodge. So they really aren't making much money off of skiers like us. Its the tourists that come and rent skis and stay in the nice hotels and buy all their food there that they really make money off of.

Its the same with ski shops and brands. Most brands know that they don't make much off off the serious skiers. I don't know about you but I haven't paid full retail for something in years. The serious riders all get preform and shop discounts and such.
 
Current guesstimates have Vail Resorts selling over 400,000 EPIC passes, with the Perisher acquisition they've tacked on another 28,000+/-.
 
13387942:Youngfeiler said:
In Vail resorts near holidays 5 day tickets is as much as an epic pass... Day tickets are way more. Vail must be hella loaded
Click to expand...

Did you see how long it took them to pay off the PCMR acquisition?
 
13388112:bnewbs6 said:
Yeah they make money off of us at the start. But think about it this way. IF you buy your epic pass for 750 and you shred 75 times. Its about 10$ a day to ski. And I would say most of us bring our own lunch and don't buy anything in the lodge. So they really aren't making much money off of skiers like us. Its the tourists that come and rent skis and stay in the nice hotels and buy all their food there that they really make money off of.

Its the same with ski shops and brands. Most brands know that they don't make much off off the serious skiers. I don't know about you but I haven't paid full retail for something in years. The serious riders all get preform and shop discounts and such.
Click to expand...

- The amount of people that ski/ride over 10 days on that pass is incredibly low.

- Yes, renting skis, buying food, and staying overnight is expensive. Now look at what it costs to take a private lesson.
 
13388768:OZSkier said:
Current guesstimates have Vail Resorts selling over 400,000 EPIC passes, with the Perisher acquisition they've tacked on another 28,000+/-.
Click to expand...

didn't they do 300k last year?

So 300k x $700 (not sure how many were epic or local, we'll just do 700) thats 210mil, pushing 300 mil in sale probably next year.

Then there are day tickets, in one day at every big resort is probably like 100k people x $100 thats 10 mil A DAY and I feel like I'm being conservative with their daily visitors at all of their resorts.

Epic passes pump in good revenue, but day tickets by far surpass. not to mention people who buy day tickets buy food, lodging, rentals etc while i'd say pass holders buy less of these things.

Completely off the top of my head, no factual numbers, just a guesstimate.
 
13388788:pussyfooter said:
didn't they do 300k last year?

So 300k x $700 (not sure how many were epic or local, we'll just do 700) thats 210mil, pushing 300 mil in sale probably next year.

Then there are day tickets, in one day at every big resort is probably like 100k people x $100 thats 10 mil A DAY and I feel like I'm being conservative with their daily visitors at all of their resorts.

Epic passes pump in good revenue, but day tickets by far surpass. not to mention people who buy day tickets buy food, lodging, rentals etc while i'd say pass holders buy less of these things.

Completely off the top of my head, no factual numbers, just a guesstimate.
Click to expand...

There isn't a ski resort on the planet that does 100,000 skiers in a single day.

Vail, on busy days, will have 25,000-30,000 ticketed (including season pass) skiers/riders on the mountain. Please realize that those days are not common, and reflect holiday periods.

Also, do not confuse the $159 walkup / day ticket price with what people with "lift tickets" are paying. Vail Resorts (along with many other resort operators) are incentivizing people to book their lift tickets prior to arrival by offering discounts off of the walkup rate.
 
13388802:OZSkier said:
There isn't a ski resort on the planet that does 100,000 skiers in a single day.

Vail, on busy days, will have 25,000-30,000 ticketed (including season pass) skiers/riders on the mountain. Please realize that those days are not common, and reflect holiday periods.

Also, do not confuse the $159 walkup / day ticket price with what people with "lift tickets" are paying. Vail Resorts (along with many other resort operators) are incentivizing people to book their lift tickets prior to arrival by offering discounts off of the walkup rate.
Click to expand...

I mean 100k at ALL resorts they own, not just one. Shit if vail is 25-30 and probably 10-20 of those being day tickets, you could probably take that total number to 300-400k day tickets at ALL resorts. I also used $100 vs a walkup price.
 
13388805:pussyfooter said:
I mean 100k at ALL resorts they own, not just one. Shit if vail is 25-30 and probably 10-20 of those being day tickets, you could probably take that total number to 300-400k day tickets at ALL resorts. I also used $100 vs a walkup price.
Click to expand...

Ha. Good place to start would be to look at the historical visitation records for the resorts (if they ever published them) prior to Vail Resorts acquiring them. OR, start sleeping with someone in Broomfield who has access to their daily sales & labor reports.
 
13388812:OZSkier said:
Ha. Good place to start would be to look at the historical visitation records for the resorts (if they ever published them) prior to Vail Resorts acquiring them. OR, start sleeping with someone in Broomfield who has access to their daily sales & labor reports.
Click to expand...

Haha yeah we'll never know exactly, I still think they make more money off of people buying day tickets.
 
13388111:bnewbs6 said:
Yeah they make money off of us at the start. But think about it this way. IF you buy your epic pass for 750 and you shred 75 times. Its about 10$ a day to ski. And I would say most of us bring our own lunch and don't buy anything in the lodge. So they really aren't making much money off of skiers like us. Its the tourists that come and rent skis and stay in the nice hotels and buy all their food there that they really make money off of.

Its the same with ski shops and brands. Most brands know that they don't make much off off the serious skiers. I don't know about you but I haven't paid full retail for something in years. The serious riders all get preform and shop discounts and such.
Click to expand...

I think the best thing about season passes for a resort is that it's a guaranteed revenue source whereas day passes and people taking vacations are not. Say your home resort is having an awful snow year. As long as it isn't so bad that they have to shut down, the resort will still have its season pass revenue even if people start cancelling their vacations. I bet season pass sales were very important to a lot of resorts due to the crappy winter we just had. Sure, they don't make as much money off of locals with passes, but it's still an important source of revenue due to its stability. I think that's part of the reason Vail's epic pass is relatively cheap and its lift tickets are expensive. They can convince savvy vacationers that it's worth it to buy the Epic Pass over purchasing day tickets, and then if they have bad snow you end up still going because you already bought the pass.

Also, I don't think that ski resorts give a shit how many days you ski or don't ski on your season pass. Whether you ski 7 or 70 days, the cost of having a single passholder on the mountain is basically zero, since all the facilities would have to be open anyways for the other guests. As long as they got their $700 from you at the beginning of the season, they don't care how much you are or aren't there.
 
13388862:caucasian_chad said:
I think the best thing about season passes for a resort is that it's a guaranteed revenue source whereas day passes and people taking vacations are not. Say your home resort is having an awful snow year. As long as it isn't so bad that they have to shut down, the resort will still have its season pass revenue even if people start cancelling their vacations. I bet season pass sales were very important to a lot of resorts due to the crappy winter we just had. Sure, they don't make as much money off of locals with passes, but it's still an important source of revenue due to its stability. I think that's part of the reason Vail's epic pass is relatively cheap and its lift tickets are expensive. They can convince savvy vacationers that it's worth it to buy the Epic Pass over purchasing day tickets, and then if they have bad snow you end up still going because you already bought the pass.

Also, I don't think that ski resorts give a shit how many days you ski or don't ski on your season pass. Whether you ski 7 or 70 days, the cost of having a single passholder on the mountain is basically zero, since all the facilities would have to be open anyways for the other guests. As long as they got their $700 from you at the beginning of the season, they don't care how much you are or aren't there.
Click to expand...

We care if you are not getting value from the pass product you purchased. I get a usage report of our passholder base each week and am working on an automated eCRM reconnect campaign to encourage our passholders to get off their ass and on the hill. Of course, that will have to wait until next season since we rolled the resort up a couple weeks ago due to lack of snow.
 
This thread is relevant to my interests so.... "threads"

Please keep dropping the knowledge gentlemen.
 
yep i feel as if while season passes are a solid and stable source of income, people who buy them dont usually spend as much money on rentals, food, lodging and lessons. whereas day tickets spend money on all of those things. therefore at the end of the day, as much as an epic pass is good value, the company will always be focused more on the punters buying day tickets because of the associated expenditure.
 
13387901:jensen said:
Sorry for the triple post...

Vails season pass sales account for 14% of their total net revenue including mountain, lodging, and real estate.

447,271 Lift Revenue

x 40%

= 178,908 Season Pass Revenue

/ 1,254,646 Total Revenue

= 14%

(all $ amounts in x000s)
Click to expand...

13388818:pussyfooter said:
Haha yeah we'll never know exactly, I still think they make more money off of people buying day tickets.
Click to expand...

Dude i just posted actual, real, audited numbers straight from their annual 10-K.

this has pretty much everything you want to know:

ILu9Kk2.jpg


Lift revenue is pass sales, of which is 40% is season pass sales and 60% are ticket sales.
 
"Lift revenue is driven by volume and pricing. Pricing is impacted by both absolute pricing as well as the demographic mix of guests, which impacts the price points at which various products are purchased. The demographic mix of guests is divided into two primary categories: (1) out-of-state and international (“Destination”) guests and (2) in-state and local (“In-State”) guests. For both the 2013/2014 and 2012/2013 ski seasons, Destination guests comprised approximately 56% of our mountain resort skier visits, while In-State guests comprised approximately 44% of our mountain resort skier visits, which compares to approximately 57% and 43%, respectively, for the 2011/2012 ski season.

Destination guests generally purchase our higher-priced lift ticket products and utilize more ancillary services such as ski school, dining and retail/rental, as well as lodging at or around our mountain resorts. Destination guest visitation is less likely to be impacted by changes in the weather, but can be more impacted by adverse economic conditions or the global geopolitical climate. In-State guests tend to be more value-oriented and weather sensitive. We offer a variety of season pass products for all of our mountain resorts and Urban ski areas, marketed towards both Destination and In-State guests. Our season pass product offerings range from providing access to one or a combination of our mountain resorts and Urban ski areas to our Epic Season Pass, which allows pass holders unlimited and unrestricted access to all of our mountain resorts and Urban ski areas. Our season pass program provides a compelling value proposition to our guests, which in turn assists us in developing a loyal base of customers who commit to ski at our mountain resorts and Urban ski areas generally in advance of the ski season and typically ski more days each season at our mountain resorts and Urban ski areas than those guests who do not buy season passes. As such, our season pass program drives strong customer loyalty; mitigates exposure to more weather sensitive guests; and generates additional ancillary spending. In addition, our season pass program attracts new guests to our mountain resorts and Urban ski areas. All of our season pass products, including the Epic Pass, are predominately sold prior to the start of the ski season. Season pass revenue, although primarily collected prior to the ski season, is recognized in the Consolidated Statement of Operations ratably over the ski season. For the 2013/2014, 2012/2013 and 2011/2012 ski seasons, approximately 40%, 38% and 40%, respectively, of total lift revenue was derived from season pass revenue."
 
13389157:jensen said:
Dude i just posted actual, real, audited numbers straight from their annual 10-K.

this has pretty much everything you want to know:

ILu9Kk2.jpg


Lift revenue is pass sales, of which is 40% is season pass sales and 60% are ticket sales.
Click to expand...

I totally missed this.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top