Twin Tip Takeover
- Thread starter BigM1218
- Start date
holyDINOSAURS
Active member
this is not a good thing
Klick_2_klaim
Active member
well... never really.
there is already so many different segments in twin tip sales. its kind of a silly question.
there is already so many different segments in twin tip sales. its kind of a silly question.
Klick_2_klaim
Active member
ps... now that were at the skate shop though, (thanks lib) maybe we can rule the snowboard world too.
BigM1218
Member
I don't understand why that would be a silly question. I mean, I work in a shop right now and we currently only have about 6 different twin tip skis. But for next year, we are planning to bring in almost 20 or so and drop some of out regular carving skis. So the way both myself and the other guys that work in my shop see it, twin tips will eventually take over the market. Think about it, all the new, young kids that get into snow sports either want to snowboard or ski twins because those are the cooler things to do. Give it about 10 years and a lot of the older people that are riding flat skis will probably stop skiing as much because they are getting older. This leaves more room for more people to get into twin tips and less of a market for people on flat skis. Plus, our sport can only get bigger anyway. And with Jon's plan of getting a world tour together, that can only give us more publicity in the world and spread the sport's popularity.
Lineskiah11
Active member
its def going to become more popular but i dont see it absolutely dominating the skiing industry because there are still plenty of people out there that ski who have no need for twin tips and wont really want to ski them anyways because they learned on regular carving rentals and want to stay on a similar ski. theres always going to be a ton of race skis also so i think twin tips will become way more popular in the next decade but there will still be a balance
grahamhowe
Member
that was a dumb comment. do you mean take over snowboarding? because that would be really stupid. because you cant rule the snowboard world with skis.
Download-My-Apps
Active member
Or maybe it will peak in two years and comepletly die off. People thought that snowblades would take over, and they didn't.
There's too many aspects of this sport to be limited to just one style of skis. Some people simply enjoy just to ski.
There's too many aspects of this sport to be limited to just one style of skis. Some people simply enjoy just to ski.
Lineskiah11
Active member
one thing is that a flat tailed ski isnt supposed to release an edge as fast as a twin tip ski so like when you set in a really hard carve coming out of it you wont be jumping out of the turn as much. this is more so for race skis because you can still have a flexy flat tailed ski that will release out of the turn a lot like a twin tip would.
i dont really think there is that much of a difference though. there are probably some other little things but thats the main one that i hear alot
i dont really think there is that much of a difference though. there are probably some other little things but thats the main one that i hear alot
BusyJohnSohn
Active member
I don't think this will ever happen. For us, the thrill of landing a switch seven or 270ing onto a dfd gets us pumped on skiing, for others, the feeling of snow rushing by under your feet as you feel your edges dig into a crisp groomed run is what gets them amped on skiing. I think as long as people are skiing there will be carving skis.
Download-My-Apps
Active member
carving, holding an edge, much easier to turn. Makes learning to ski much easier.
Did you notice when you first got twin tips your ski kinda fish tailed? And how very few people on twins can actually carve?
Did you notice when you first got twin tips your ski kinda fish tailed? And how very few people on twins can actually carve?
Jamie_Baril
Active member
^that is the truth
Powforbreakfast.
Active member
exactly what i was going to say. the reason the "takeover" will never happen is because twin physically don't have the ability to turn as well and a flat-tailed ski. when you're layed into a turn, and you come out of the crescent (past 50 % of your turn), there's a ton of force being loaded on your tails to spring you out of the rest of your turn. a twin-tip loses a lot of that energy because of the gradual rise from the tail, and it doesn't transmit as much "spring" out of your turn as a flat-tailed ski would; it causes the ski to wash out considerably, compared to carving on a flat-tailed ski. hope that makes sense, but there's your answer!
Klick_2_klaim
Active member
thats what I meant.
Ill never go buy a carving ski, or some other kind of recreational ski... theyre heavy, cumbersome. Oh and 97% of carving skis are bought by people who cant carve... but thats another rant.
Ive worked in a shop too... Ive sold many many many twins.
Ive sold twins to 55 year old men who wanted some other shit ski they read about, and when they came back with their wife and family to buy similar skis, because a lighter more agile ski saved thier hips and knees, and was so fun to ski on that they just had to bring me some more sales... well I have done my part to help twin tip skis become just "skis".
BUt take over?
sorry, but I dont see it.
Ill never go buy a carving ski, or some other kind of recreational ski... theyre heavy, cumbersome. Oh and 97% of carving skis are bought by people who cant carve... but thats another rant.
Ive worked in a shop too... Ive sold many many many twins.
Ive sold twins to 55 year old men who wanted some other shit ski they read about, and when they came back with their wife and family to buy similar skis, because a lighter more agile ski saved thier hips and knees, and was so fun to ski on that they just had to bring me some more sales... well I have done my part to help twin tip skis become just "skis".
BUt take over?
sorry, but I dont see it.
zesty_buddy
Member
they will continue to grow in popularity but i'm not sure about a takeover... i think they might take over carving skis in sales but carving skis will always be there
skier_boy26
Active member
Well, a little insight i guess.....
http://travel.nytimes.com/2008/02/22/travel/escapes/22ski.html?scp=1&sq=twin+tip&st=nyt
February 22, 2008
Ski Report
A New Direction With Twin-Tip Skis
By BILL PENNINGTON
O.K., raise your hand if you have used your skis to fly off a jump backward this winter.
Or, have you taken a jump and landed backward on your skis? (Accidentally doesn’t count.)
Some of you, with pristine knee cartilage and bodies that bounce
instead of thud on impact, raised your hands. Most of you did not.
Now, there is an active, expanding group of new school/free skiing
youngsters who are charging into the parks and pipes and flying off
hits in all directions. It is probably the fastest-growing segment of
the snow-sliding population. But over all, those soaring through the
air backward still make up a minority of skiers.
How then, do we explain the most significant equipment trend in the
snow-sports industry this season — the exploding sales of twin-tip
skis? Twin-tips are skis rounded and curved up at the tail the same as
the front of a traditional ski. They were introduced more than 10 years
ago to make it easier to go off jumps backward and to land backward.
The answer to their sudden popularity is as old-fashioned as it is
modern: Twin-tips are new, cool and make people feel young. So
middle-age men and women are buying them, and not just for their sons
and daughters.
First, the facts from specialty ski and snowboard stores and
Internet sales throughout the country: In what the ski industry calls
adult flat-ski sales, which means skis sold without bindings, twin-tips
have vaulted into the best-selling category this season. Nationally,
46,429 twin-tip skis were sold from last August to December, according
to SnowSports Industries America, compared with 27,924 in the same
period the year before.
Twin-tips are outpacing mid-fat skis — wider planks and more suited
to powder — and carving skis, which are more popular in the Northeast,
where many ski on groomed or harder surfaces.
Among skis that have integrated bindings, mid-fat skis still reign,
but the twin-tip phenomenon has gotten everybody’s attention.
“It’s been building for years, but twin-tip sales are almost even
with non-twin-tip sales in our place,” said Tom Rossi, who manages the
Ski Barn in Paramus, N.J. “Ten years ago, I was offering maybe two
twin-tip ski models. I now offer 15, including four for women.”
Kelly Davis, research director for SnowSports Industries, a
nonprofit trade group, said twin-tip sales nationally have increased by
32 percent in specialty stores and by 167 percent in online sales over
last season.
The only kind of ski that has been more popular is the junior ski.
People like to say that snowboarding is capturing the youth market, and
Madison Avenue has certainly bought into that notion. The fact is that
ski sales have outnumbered snowboard sales by nearly 70,000 units this
season, according to SnowSports Industries, and there have been nearly
89,000 junior skis sold. Almost 21 percent of all skiers are under 17
years old.
Many of those youngsters will no doubt migrate to twin-tip skis as they get older. The key question is, why?
“I get requests for twin-tips from 15-year-olds to 50-year-olds,”
said Matt Carroll, general manager at the venerable Double Diamond ski
shop in Vail,
Colo. “We know what the 15-year-old wants them for, and for the people
in their 50s or 60s, I think it’s a ski that looks a little more
youthful and it is a little more forgiving. If you’re not quite as good
a skier, you can sit back a bit because it won’t shoot you into the
next turn.
“A lot of people really like the feel.”
Mr. Carroll added that because the twin-tip ski has less edge in
contact with the snow it also skis like a shorter ski, something most
people should be moving toward anyway since modern, more maneuverable
skis have made older long boards obsolete.
But most agree that what is probably driving the trend is the appeal of a stylish and dynamic-looking ski.
“The graphics on the ski are more fun and aggressive,” Mr. Rossi said. “It looks more like a snowboard, really.”
Ms. Davis called twin-tips, “the ski to have right now.”
“Why would someone who is never going to ski or jump backward buy a
twin-tip ski?” she asked. “Why do people buy dual-suspension mountain bikes to ride around the neighborhood? It’s the thing to have.”
ALMOST everyone interviewed said the twin-tips were versatile skis
for varied terrain and with the many models now available — virtually
every major manufacturer offers them, as do boutique ski makers — there
are twin-tip skis for every ability level. Mr. Rossi said his twin-tip
flat skis sell for $250 to $670, with bindings about $200 additional.
Separate from the popularity of twin-tip skis, though maybe not
totally separate, is another revealing trend in the country’s ski
shops. For only the second time, according to SnowSports Industries,
more money has been spent this season on snow-sports apparel than on
equipment.
Guess what’s driving that phenomenon? Slope chic is in, even if you never get to the mountains.
“What that indicates is that these sports really are a lifestyle as
much as a sport,” Ms. Davis said. “A lot of people are dressing up like
skiers or snowboarders even if they aren’t actually going to the
slopes.”
Apparel is defined as parkas, jackets, fleeces, sweaters, base
layers and winter boots. Personally, I think this fashion development
might be related to the sales of the omnipresent Ugg and Moon boots,
but that’s a nonscientific observation. Whatever the cause, snow-sports
apparel sales have totaled $791 million so far this winter, while $541
million has been spent on equipment.
In general, so far, it hasn’t been a bad year for ski-shop retailers. That certainly hasn’t been true of every recent winter.
There is, of course, a simple explanation for any increase in sales
this season. There have been heavy snowfalls in the West and Rocky
Mountains, as well as in northern New England and parts of New York.
When it snows, people will buy what they need to have fun in the
mountains, even if it’s a ski that nearly looks the same regardless of
the direction you’re headed.
There’s nothing backward about that thinking.
http://travel.nytimes.com/2008/02/22/travel/escapes/22ski.html?scp=1&sq=twin+tip&st=nyt
February 22, 2008
Ski Report
A New Direction With Twin-Tip Skis
By BILL PENNINGTON
O.K., raise your hand if you have used your skis to fly off a jump backward this winter.
Or, have you taken a jump and landed backward on your skis? (Accidentally doesn’t count.)
Some of you, with pristine knee cartilage and bodies that bounce
instead of thud on impact, raised your hands. Most of you did not.
Now, there is an active, expanding group of new school/free skiing
youngsters who are charging into the parks and pipes and flying off
hits in all directions. It is probably the fastest-growing segment of
the snow-sliding population. But over all, those soaring through the
air backward still make up a minority of skiers.
How then, do we explain the most significant equipment trend in the
snow-sports industry this season — the exploding sales of twin-tip
skis? Twin-tips are skis rounded and curved up at the tail the same as
the front of a traditional ski. They were introduced more than 10 years
ago to make it easier to go off jumps backward and to land backward.
The answer to their sudden popularity is as old-fashioned as it is
modern: Twin-tips are new, cool and make people feel young. So
middle-age men and women are buying them, and not just for their sons
and daughters.
First, the facts from specialty ski and snowboard stores and
Internet sales throughout the country: In what the ski industry calls
adult flat-ski sales, which means skis sold without bindings, twin-tips
have vaulted into the best-selling category this season. Nationally,
46,429 twin-tip skis were sold from last August to December, according
to SnowSports Industries America, compared with 27,924 in the same
period the year before.
Twin-tips are outpacing mid-fat skis — wider planks and more suited
to powder — and carving skis, which are more popular in the Northeast,
where many ski on groomed or harder surfaces.
Among skis that have integrated bindings, mid-fat skis still reign,
but the twin-tip phenomenon has gotten everybody’s attention.
“It’s been building for years, but twin-tip sales are almost even
with non-twin-tip sales in our place,” said Tom Rossi, who manages the
Ski Barn in Paramus, N.J. “Ten years ago, I was offering maybe two
twin-tip ski models. I now offer 15, including four for women.”
Kelly Davis, research director for SnowSports Industries, a
nonprofit trade group, said twin-tip sales nationally have increased by
32 percent in specialty stores and by 167 percent in online sales over
last season.
The only kind of ski that has been more popular is the junior ski.
People like to say that snowboarding is capturing the youth market, and
Madison Avenue has certainly bought into that notion. The fact is that
ski sales have outnumbered snowboard sales by nearly 70,000 units this
season, according to SnowSports Industries, and there have been nearly
89,000 junior skis sold. Almost 21 percent of all skiers are under 17
years old.
Many of those youngsters will no doubt migrate to twin-tip skis as they get older. The key question is, why?
“I get requests for twin-tips from 15-year-olds to 50-year-olds,”
said Matt Carroll, general manager at the venerable Double Diamond ski
shop in Vail,
Colo. “We know what the 15-year-old wants them for, and for the people
in their 50s or 60s, I think it’s a ski that looks a little more
youthful and it is a little more forgiving. If you’re not quite as good
a skier, you can sit back a bit because it won’t shoot you into the
next turn.
“A lot of people really like the feel.”
Mr. Carroll added that because the twin-tip ski has less edge in
contact with the snow it also skis like a shorter ski, something most
people should be moving toward anyway since modern, more maneuverable
skis have made older long boards obsolete.
But most agree that what is probably driving the trend is the appeal of a stylish and dynamic-looking ski.
“The graphics on the ski are more fun and aggressive,” Mr. Rossi said. “It looks more like a snowboard, really.”
Ms. Davis called twin-tips, “the ski to have right now.”
“Why would someone who is never going to ski or jump backward buy a
twin-tip ski?” she asked. “Why do people buy dual-suspension mountain bikes to ride around the neighborhood? It’s the thing to have.”
ALMOST everyone interviewed said the twin-tips were versatile skis
for varied terrain and with the many models now available — virtually
every major manufacturer offers them, as do boutique ski makers — there
are twin-tip skis for every ability level. Mr. Rossi said his twin-tip
flat skis sell for $250 to $670, with bindings about $200 additional.
Separate from the popularity of twin-tip skis, though maybe not
totally separate, is another revealing trend in the country’s ski
shops. For only the second time, according to SnowSports Industries,
more money has been spent this season on snow-sports apparel than on
equipment.
Guess what’s driving that phenomenon? Slope chic is in, even if you never get to the mountains.
“What that indicates is that these sports really are a lifestyle as
much as a sport,” Ms. Davis said. “A lot of people are dressing up like
skiers or snowboarders even if they aren’t actually going to the
slopes.”
Apparel is defined as parkas, jackets, fleeces, sweaters, base
layers and winter boots. Personally, I think this fashion development
might be related to the sales of the omnipresent Ugg and Moon boots,
but that’s a nonscientific observation. Whatever the cause, snow-sports
apparel sales have totaled $791 million so far this winter, while $541
million has been spent on equipment.
In general, so far, it hasn’t been a bad year for ski-shop retailers. That certainly hasn’t been true of every recent winter.
There is, of course, a simple explanation for any increase in sales
this season. There have been heavy snowfalls in the West and Rocky
Mountains, as well as in northern New England and parts of New York.
When it snows, people will buy what they need to have fun in the
mountains, even if it’s a ski that nearly looks the same regardless of
the direction you’re headed.
There’s nothing backward about that thinking.
Download-My-Apps
Active member
i think we've all known for quite sometime that freeskiing was going to blow up.
I hope it doesn't put us in the position of being viewed as just another flavor of the week.
I hope it doesn't put us in the position of being viewed as just another flavor of the week.
jack.whelan
Active member
100% of world cup gs skis were twin tips this year. not jp vs julian twin tips. but turned up at the back nontheless. it helps initiate the carve as the twin is already in the reverse cambered shape that skis go into during a carve, therefore reducing friction on the snow, resulting in quicker, more effortless turns. in gs you dont need to snap out of your turns as much as you do in slalom, so the lost recoil isnt missed. hope that made sense. eventually there will be no skis without a slightly raised tail.
BigM1218
Member
Not true dude. did you read he article that skier_boy26 posted? its saying that a lot of older people are now buying twins because they ski like a shorter ski and are a lot softer and more forgiving, so thier easier on knees and stuff. I don't know about anyone else, but I'll always be on twin tips, no matter how old I am.
once ski company start twin tipping there carving skis a little while keeping there gimmicks in them to make older people buy them it will happen.
Dr_Feelgood
Active member
i definitely agree to this. as the skiing world moves forward all the best freeride technologies come out first on twins. i was up at mad river glen last weekend and about half of the people had twins. people generally look now for fatter and more durable skis and most twins fall into this category. who wouldnt want a wider waist? or even shaped skis for that matter? over time, yes, twins will take over the market. simple as that.
brenker
Active member
no.....read the thread above you.
there is way to much variety in skiing for a single ski to cover. Racing, all mountain, and even kids skis cannot possibly manage with one type of ski. The twin tip ski, being a flat ski with no interation, does not offer much for the avid east-coast skier who just like to rip steep shit on weekends with his/her buddies. the way the integrated skis have come along in the past 4 years has developed far too much to be replaced by what it started out as, a heelpiece and a toepiece that are drilled directly into the ski. When an integrated ski binding is flexed in a turn, the heel and toepeice move slightly to allow the entire ski to flex a perfect arc, holding a much smoother turn in any condition, especially ice. A twin tip, being flat mounted, suffers from a flat spot underneath the boot are where the bindings are pressured together. Skiers who ski primarily on integrated ski systems from the last 6 years are aware of this, and would never return to a flat mounted binding in replacement for their skis. Racing has the same concept. 99% of all race skis (world cup level) are mounted with a binding plate underneath the actual binding, to add more "pop" out of a turn, as in the Marker world cup piston plate, which literally uses a piston to spring the ski out of a turn.
Twin tips are selling increasingly fast year by year, but will never completely overturn the ski market and become the primary sale ski. nah dude.
there is way to much variety in skiing for a single ski to cover. Racing, all mountain, and even kids skis cannot possibly manage with one type of ski. The twin tip ski, being a flat ski with no interation, does not offer much for the avid east-coast skier who just like to rip steep shit on weekends with his/her buddies. the way the integrated skis have come along in the past 4 years has developed far too much to be replaced by what it started out as, a heelpiece and a toepiece that are drilled directly into the ski. When an integrated ski binding is flexed in a turn, the heel and toepeice move slightly to allow the entire ski to flex a perfect arc, holding a much smoother turn in any condition, especially ice. A twin tip, being flat mounted, suffers from a flat spot underneath the boot are where the bindings are pressured together. Skiers who ski primarily on integrated ski systems from the last 6 years are aware of this, and would never return to a flat mounted binding in replacement for their skis. Racing has the same concept. 99% of all race skis (world cup level) are mounted with a binding plate underneath the actual binding, to add more "pop" out of a turn, as in the Marker world cup piston plate, which literally uses a piston to spring the ski out of a turn.
Twin tips are selling increasingly fast year by year, but will never completely overturn the ski market and become the primary sale ski. nah dude.
BigM1218
Member
^^ Great point...I completetly forgot about the absence of integrated binding systems on twins....And I knew all that shit too. You've got a good argument there. So I now think that until companies start putting all the technology that they put into race and carving skis into twin tips, they won't take over. Who knows... Maybe one day we'll be seeing integrated systems on twin tips (They would probably be too heavy, but interesting to think about isn't it?)
brenker
Active member
yea ive thought about that before, but yea like you said, intefrated twins would be way too heavy, and the kids (like me and all of ns) who acutally use twin tips to their maximum potential primarily in the park would never want to put an extra 12 lbs on our skis, especailly if it moves you higher off the ground at the same time. There would most likely be a special twin tip for only out of the park skiing, for homos that are 50 years old and think its cool to try carving on twin tips. Itll be kinda like how a lot of companies make a recreational race ski for homos that think its cool skiing on skis that look like race skis but arent nearly as good as a race ski. anyway yea.
-Nick-
Active member
i dont know about you guys but i liked it best when only actual newschool skiers had twins, If you saw someone with twin tips they would automatically become your friend. its ridiculous how may gapers and old people that have twins at my mountain if you think about it, the main purpose of the twin tip is to ski switch and it just makes me mad when i see a gaper thinking there cool when they wouldnt ski backwards to save their life. rant over.
Aenigma
Active member
I won't be among everyone. A directional ski works way better for my resort skiing because my tails aren't constantly washing out when I want them to hold. Then when I'm out in the backcountry, without a twin I don't have to deal with skin clips falling off the tails every mile.
I will say that I have two pairs of twins--one rock ski, one touring ski. I only got the ones for touring because I couldn't afford what I really wanted, and aside from getting pissed putting tail clips back on all the time they work ok in the backcountry.
I will say that I have two pairs of twins--one rock ski, one touring ski. I only got the ones for touring because I couldn't afford what I really wanted, and aside from getting pissed putting tail clips back on all the time they work ok in the backcountry.
Celone
Active member
i can pretty much guarantee that we will never be only twin tip, because racers will always be racing(and last time i checked, racers used race skis{non twin tip}). also look at some of the powder skis that have swallow tail, a lot of people love that and will want that feature forever and so that will saty for a while. so there will never be a takeover
BigM1218
Member
^^ I agree. When I said Twin Tip Takeover, what I really menat was that we could have more than half of market sales, not a total and complete takeover where there is nothing but twins. Its just that the way I see it, more people will be jumping onto the Twin Tip bandwagon and sales will go nowhere but up. Like I said before, my shop currently only has 6 twins, but we plan on bringing in about 20 for next season and dropping some of our carving skis. It's just a small example of what our sport will become.