Toronto teen shot 9 times then tasered by cops

CNN neglected to mention the part where the driver was held up a knife point which pisses me off.

Also was the teen pointing the knife at the driver when he got shot?
 
The guy threatened people with a knife, refused to put his knife down when police arrived, refused to take any instructions from police. The police felt that he posed a physical threat - no kidding, he has a knife. So they shot him.

Now imagine that there was only one shot. As a result the guy died from his single bullet wound. Would it have been okay then? Or are police required to risk the use of a taser, which is less effective and exposes the user to greater risk from the person they're trying to take down?

People wanting police to go easier on maniacs wielding potentially deadly weapons really annoy me. There's just no sense of reality to it. If you come at an officer with a knife (or anything else that could seriously hurt someone), the baseline assumption is that you are dead. If you survive, you were lucky.
 
what the fuck was this kid doing still holding a knife on a deserted bus surrounded by cops? Fucking idiot, he died for the benefit of the gene pool
 
of course they didnt.

just like how the video posted shows 9 officers standing around and then all of a sudden fatally shooting a 18 year old kid.

And no, the teen did not have a knife pointed at the driver when he was shot.

For those of you unfamiliar with street cars, notice the double doors that are wide open in the middle of the cart. Police opened those doors and while pointing guns at the attacker ordered everyone off the street car. Everyone including the driver got off. The video posted is actually shot by a passenger who was just on the street car.

Nows when the video starts. No one is on the cart except for the teen, the cops are all standing with guns drawn at the front door. you can clearly hear the cops yelling drop the weapon, drop the knife. Now watch closely, if you look through the first window you can see the teen walk towards the front of the cart, and then go to step down the stairs outside. bang bang bang.

who knows where those shots go?? not me.

do they hit?, do they miss? are they lodged in seats or in his chest??

TTC buses and street cars have bullet proof glass behind the drivers seat, was the attacker now behind the glass??

who knows.

but for whatever reason the cops shot several more times.

then, you can see a cop run in the open double doors, run up behind the attacker, and you hear crackling which has been identified as a taser.

Attackers down, no one got hurt.

TTC buses and street cars also have high definition cameras installed at the front of every cart.

the TTC already said that Toronto Police have taken the video as evidence and that the SIU is investigating the situation. the officer who fired the shots has been placed on paid suspension.

if you ask me, thats a job well done.
 
We need to take guns away from cops. Between Trayvon Martin this guy, and that dog, cops have shown that they do not know how to use guns responsibly.
 
basically this:

goodly-said-add.jpg
 
I'm so sick of the "fuck the police" mentality this website of privileged armchair activist tweens has always adopted. What did you want the cops to do, go give the guy a hug and talk him through his sorrows?

I'm with Seward. He wouldn't put his weapon down, put him down.
 
Generally I'd agree with you, but in this situation it seems to me that better decisions could have been made.

However, I've been on the receiving end of public outrage over the way a situation was handled that resulted in a death, so I won't pass judgement on the police as I was not there and don't know all of the details.
 
There was a huge protest in Toronto about the shooting and police brutality. (sorry can't embed, CTV is our main news outlet)

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/toronto-streetcar-shooting-police-union-head-says-cop-s-suspension-unprecedented-1.1390107

This aired on National News last night

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/hundreds-march-to-protest-deadly-toronto-police-shooting-officer-suspended-1.1388173

Obviously there are other ways that this could have been handled, but at the end of the day, no one other than the teen got hurt or killed......
 
Had he encountered our trusted mountees and not the local police force, all would have ended happily.

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

 
So if this is true, and he actually DID have some sort of mental illness or something of the like, even more reason to not jump to lethal.

Again I think they took action way too fast. I can't speak too confidently about the situation, but from the video, it really doesn't look like he is an immediate threat to anyone. He's contained, on the bus, with no one else. If they couldn't handle it, close the doors, wait, and call a specialized team that can.

Had this have happened after they exhausted other options (ie rubber bullets, taser, negotiations, etc), that would be different. it's the fact that this was the immediate response within about 5 minutes of them showing up. That is what is not right here.
 
1/4 is plenty. The last 5 minutes is honestly the only information you need to know that the police stepped out of bounds. Even if he had killed 5 people and then was in the situation where he was surrounded and posing absolutely zero threat to anyone (there is no way you could argue he's posing even the slightest threat) then the police shouldn't have used lethal force even then. That's a situation where you disarm them without violence, even if you have to call in negotiators to talk him out of it and it takes 3 hours then bring them to trial to answer for their actions. That's how our justice system is supposed to work. Even for a murderer. If you can arrest them safely you do so, you don't kill and ask questions later. Clearly they didn't even make an effort seeing how the special forces units weren't there. Toronto police fucked up. The inquirey is going to come down to: could they have easily and safely arrested him without the use of lethal force without putting anyone in harms way. The answer is yes. They could have. Unfortunately even if police are proven to be lying under oath in this country then they get off scott free.
 
Usually I would say. Put the weapon down and you won't get shot WTF is so hard to understand, however, why the fuck didn't they taser him, or lock him in the bus, or flash bang. If he only had a knife he wasn't a threat to the officers. He must have been moving towards them.
 
We need to better train our police forces to deal with mentally unstable persons. They're often too quick to jump to lethal methods of diffusion (ie Robert Dziekanski, Paul Boyd). Often times mentally ill patients need time to react and reason with the demands of the police. Why was the call not made to a specialized team of negotiators? The kid was on the streetcar alone... treat it like a hostage taking and diffuse the situation.

Of course it could be a suicide-by-cop too..
 
meh.

thats where we differ my friend.

you think its ok for him to kill 5 people and still be apprehended non-lethally.

i think the second he stepped towards police with a lethal weapon he was asking to be shot.

you think 1/4 of the available information is plenty.

i think 100% is absolutely necessary.

(imagine if the justice systems that you speak of only presented 1/4 of the evidence available?)

i just find it so interesting that so many people can stand back and claim Toronto police are disgusting for killing this knife wielding teenager.

the same people who have absolutely zero experience actually BEING a police officer.

no training whatsoever, telling a professional how to do his job. figure that out.

as i mentioned in an earlier post, 416 residents spent however many millions of tax dollars to have all TTC vehicles equipped with HD video cams. For exactly situations like this.

that tape has been confiscated by the SIU.

again, im willing to bet a shiney new loonie that the officer who shot him will not have to endure any repercussions for his actions, as he shouldnt.

even if the officer does lie about the events, the tape wont.

honestly though. if i have a knife, and you are pointing a gun at me telling me to drop said knife, and then i come at you with that knife, you are seriously and honestly telling me youre not gonna fuckin shoot me??

bullshit.
 
^^so "intelligent" people dont wield a knife infront of police?

implying that only mental fuckups do so. and they dont know what they are doing. employing any situationally possible non-lethal alternative is A MUST.

not saying that this or that situation did lend itself to be solved non-lethally, however this has to be the general mindset.
 
See the main deciding factor between whether the cops were right or wrong was whether the dude actually went after a cop or not. Did you watch the video? He backs away from the door to behind the driver's seat THEN gets shot. He did not go after a cop at all. Thus if cop at no point had his life in danger and at no point needed to shoot. If he charged at the cop it would be a different story all together. But he didn't. And i'm not saying only 1/4 of evidence is required to lay charges, i'm saying that it doesn't matter what the person did, if they can safely be detained in a non-lethal manner (like what would have happened here if the cop didn't watch too many Dirty Harry movies) then that is what should happen. 100% of the time. That is how our justice system works. This isn't some backwater 3rd world shoot first country.
 
Toronto is North America's 3rd largest city (NYC, LA, Toronto, Chicago) but that's neither here nor there.

There is A LOT of cop hate in Toronto, but this situation, and at least two others in the past few years make me question the training of the officers involved. It seems like they're really fucking good at taking down gangbangers, but the people with mental illness, the ones who don't have complete control of their faculties, seem to go down like flies.

9 shots is fucking excessive. After 3 shots and 1 minute, kid is probably debilitated enough that three of the ten officers that were at the scene would have been able to subdue him, remove the threatening knife, and the other seven would have been able to call an ambulance. Which probably should have been there anyway, because absent a legitimate target of aggression (e.g. no girl being held by shotgun, or knife-wielding man) I would think the kid is off his rocker and I'd probably want some medical personnel around (preferably those with special training for acute psychiatric episodes). What I saw was a kid pacing around the front of a streetcar with a really easy way out pointing through the door, right at him.

I think that there HAS to be a better way to deal with that situation. But hey, maybe I'm just a fucking idealist and it would have been impossible to keep the neighbourhood safe and an 18-year old kid alive. Again.

Cops are people, some people suck shit, some people do they best they can, and sometimes their best just isn't enough. Unfortunately, on tape, with that many officers, that much time between shots and the finishing Taser shot really make me question what directives are coming from on high (see Ashley Smith) when dealing with 'troubled' (usually just mentally ill) patients.

That, dear sirs, is my problem with the situation. Not that there was too much violence, but that there is a growing history of the Toronto police shooting mentally ill people dead.

Caveat: I'm assuming this kid was mentally ill. Personally, yes I do think one has to be crazy do did what he did, murderously crazy or just ... nuts.
 
Would YOU? Unstable maniac on a bus with a big knife...hmm...let me fire my plastic zippy doo-dad at this guy and hope that it penetrates his clothing and he's also not on PCP or something.

OORRRR...blam, blam, crazy guy is dead and the world is a better place. Why are people trying to place blame on the police here? THEY TOOK DOWN THE CRIMINAL AND NOBODY GOT HURT. They did their fucking job. Who gives a shit if they shot him 9 times. They could have shot him 312 times and hung the ragged pieces of his body from a tree, and everyone would still be better off than if the psycho with a knife started cutting people up on a public bus thingie. Who. Gives. A. Fuck? All you dumb fucking stoner kids who say fuck the police are retarded. Grow up.
 
Im going to go out on a limb and say you forgot about Mexico City....

and Toronto and Chicago switch spots all the time, last i checked they were 25,000 people apart.

build a highend condo complex and theres 25,000 people.

also, Houston's last available online census was in 2010, i dunno if you heard the rumours, but Houston is booming, i just assumed they were ahead of toronto 3 years later...

but like you said, that neither here not there (even though you found it necessary to bring it up).

there IS alot of cop hate in toronto, and its ridiculous.

your response has so much god damned speculation and assumption in it that i dont even know where to start.

Who are you to say 9 shots is excessive? who is anybody to say that?

seriously, give me one legitimate reason as to how you would have even the slightest clue as to what excessive police work is.

what do you do for a living? do police officers come to your work, stand over your shoulder, and tell you how to do your job all day?

like i said earlier, no matter what the cops do, theyre wrong, even when they couldnt be more right. and its a shame.

and where the fuck is everyone getting this "mentally ill" thing from??

the kid graduated highschool about a month ago and had been accepted to a well credited local college.

so fuck that, learn your facts before you label someone as mentally unstable.

bottom line, he had a knife, he threatened people, he got shot and killed.

dont want to get shot and killed by a trained police officer? DONT FUCK AROUND!

Seems so simple.

remember two winters ago when toronto police tried to use nonlethal tactics to subdue Richard Kackler (who was actually mentally ill)?

ya, he ran over a 35 year old father of 3, police sargeant Ryan Russell, killing him.

another dead cop.

why arnt cops going around killing "gangbangers"?

cause you arrest them, let them snitch on eachother, then go get more.

you cant do that when theyre dead.

also gangbangers are not holding up innocent people in public TTC vehicles, or driving around wrecklessly in stolen snowplows.

seems pretty common sense right?
 
Again, super similar scenario, a far more devastating crime, and a completely different outcome:

http://murderpedia.org/male.L/l/li-vince-weiguang.htm

And nobody seen Vince Li as mentally unstable leading up to the crime; but maybe a little distraught after being fired from Wal-Mart.

In the end the whole case was thrown aside and Vince Li is a 'free man' (locked up, but he still gets to go on supervised walks through the city and so forth) and wasn't held criminally responsible for what he did. If anyone should have been shot it was Vince. But they tasered him twice, detained him, and he's still alive to this day.

And if you don't think my original wikipedia link or my murderpedia link's are a legitimate info source then here:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=killing+of+tim+mclean
 
Learn your facts, you fucktard. Graduating high school and getting accepted into a "good" college by no means certifies you as mentally stable person. It's a perfectly viable option as to why this kid randomly pulled a knife on people and tried to attack randoms he didn't know.
 
I'm going to start with the murkier, 'how do you know he's mentally ill' argument. I suspect that mainly, it's because in the past 5 years there have been 4 serious incidents involving mentally ill people, or more broadly suffering some sort of acute episode, and police in which no shots were fired and yet that person, who was diagnosed as mentally ill, was shot and killed. By the police.

So pardon my inference, that a kid, who let all of the people, safely and peacefully off of the streetcar, might have had more going on than an idea to massacre Toronto or rob the entire streetcar of their possessions and then slash them all to death. I don't think I'm far off in hoping that a little more conversation and a little less action might have given this kid the chance to figure out what was going on. 10 years later he could be thanking those same officers.

But really, the trump card is that 9 shots in 11 seconds is excessive. 11 seconds is a fucking eternity, seeing as bullets travel faster than the speed of sound. And are you seriously trying to tell me that they couldn't have hit him centre-mass the first three times they shot him? What about the next six? I mean, there's plenty to be pissed about in this situation. It was handled poorly. In fact, it was a clusterfuck. It needs to be dealt with as such. Whether or not the kid had to die (questionable, but as of now unknowable) it did not need to take 9 bullets and a taser.

People don't come and oversee my slinging lattes or report writing, mainly because I don't have a gun and a mandate to kill whomever I believe to be a 'legitimate threat.' That's getting into some grey moral ground, and I would hope that those administering justice (which in some cases can be lethal) to be held at a higher standard than I am. Again, I'm not paid to carry a gun, I just make their coffee.

 
I'm not sure i agree with "they just did their job"

I don't think their job is simply to kill someone. their job is to diffuse the situation, and they chose the worst possible way to do so. as the.hellion said, in 11 seconds there was too much action too quickly.

further more, criticism comes with this job. public scrutiny comes with this job. if everyone took everything cops did at face value, where the hell would we be today. they handled this shitty, and that needs to be accounted for.
 
I live in Toronto, and agree 100% with Seward. Now I'm not a fan of cops at all, hell, I had a fucking TACTICAL UNIT show up at my house on Saturday.

What happens if you try to rob an armored bank truck with a knife? They shoot you.

What happens if you DO hold a knife to a bunch of INNOCENT people on a streetcar? They try and negotiate and look for less than lethal options, NO, they shoot you!

It's clear that this individual is NOT INNOCENT, he took it upon himself to bring a knife into a public place and threaten people with it. If we were in the US, some Good Samaritan would have shot this piece of shit, but since we can't carry guns, the cops did it for us. In a country where we can be prosecuted for defending ourselves, I'm sure glad the cops defended us.
 
Cops had every right to shoot that waste of skin. But I do believe they could have easily taken the kid out by other means.
 
ummm, from the part where he pulled out his dick and a knife on a public bus and started waiving them around ? that's not normal behavior.

Seung-Hui Cho also graduated high school and went to a well credited university. he was also un-arguably mentally ill.
 
that didnt happen.

there was no dick swinging around. he pulled a knife, walked up to the driver, pressed it against his chest.

if you want actual information, go to thestar.ca, or torontosun.com, or many of the many local news outlets in toronto. for articles, in papers, that are published in toronto and have a very accurate idea of what happened.

no joeshmo internet site with "witnesses" that were probably walking by as the cops had the street car surrounded.

one person claimed he pulled out his dick, one person, of probably the 40+ people that were on the street car. did everyone else just happen to leave that part out of the story?

infact the very first article i read about this incident claimed that the cops opened the side doors to get everyone out while pointing guns at Yatim. turns out, and its been confirmed, that the driver actually opened the doors, and when he did, thats when yatim pressed the knife against his chest.

this is probably the best article i have read so far. it address both sides of the story, and puts to rest alot of rumours:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/29/toronto-prepares-for-anti-police-demonstration-after-shooting-of-sammy-yatim-as-top-cop-promises-answers/

pay close attention to the audio clip where you can clear as day hear the officer say "if you take one step in this direction with that foot"

we can argue in circles all day, and at the end of it, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

however i stick to my original point. for a city the size of Toronto we have very little crime.

and i think its because people know that if they pull shit like this, the cops are going to get you, and in certain circumstances, they just might kill you.

if they start shooting innocent people sitting on streetcars, then we have a problem.

if they shoot people, with knives, endangering the lives of others, then all the power to them.
 
oh, and dont even get me started if this had of happened somewhere in the states.

some yankee vigilante on the street car would have pulled out his gun and blown his fuckin head off the second a knife was pulled, and been congratulated for it.

but in canada, the cops cant even do their jobs without people complaining its "excessive".

pffft, give me a break.
 
idk, i wasn't there. that was what was claimed by Jeremy Ing, a passenger on the bus.

like i said before, i'm usually all for cops shooting a mother fucker. however, in this situation, I think better decisions could have been made. there was zero chance someone was going to die within the next few seconds if they didn't open fire.
 
In a situation such as this, I think that people are definitely allowed to scrutinize and speculate. there is a video of an officer killing someone, they better be able to explain it properly.
 
This thread is funny.

If you pull a knife on an innocent person and refuse to cooperate you don't get a trial. They told him to drop the knife and he refused to cooperate. A "wounding" shot would probably put the hostage in more danger. The whole notion tht everyone deserves a trial is bullshit. If someone was walking around with a machine gun shooting people and no one could get close to him to detain him, you don't wait till you can. You take the evil down to protect the innocent. Easy as that.
 
right. so this dude, alone on a bus surrounded by cops with a single small knife in his hand, is comparable to someone walking around with a machine gun shooting people.

the whole bloody point is that they COULD EASILY WITH NO DANGER have detained him and brought him to trial.

clearly they didn't even try. or if they did they made a miserable effort. the special forces units, whose jobs it is is to diffuse this exact sort of situation, weren't even there.

and you are wrong. everyone deserves a trial. everyone. once you start taking that right away from people then you're going down a very slippery slope.

even in the US the Boston Marathon bombers were brought into custody.
 
once again, people are taking a video and blowing shit WAY out of proportion and, once again, people will forget this ever happened in 2 weeks.

The kid is dead. Good. Toronto is better off. Move on, everyone.
 
The second the cop feels his life is in jeopardy, which he must have thought when he shot the guy.

A police officer in Canada is not taught to shoot to harm, but to shoot to kill, no warning shots either. 3 bullets to the chest and boom.

I am all for bringing justice and a fair trial, but the second he puts the officers life in danger, his training kicks and he pulls the trigger. The kid could have easily avoided the danger by dropping the knife, not take steps towards an officer with a gun point right at him.

The issue here shouldn't be about the excessive use of force, but rather the training the officers go through. The officer based on his training did nothing wrong.

Thats all I got to say.
 
I hear you. It shouldn't be as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be against the police.

However, part of a police officers job is to make sure that taking life is a last resort... This was one guy with a knife... There was over 10 police officers in the area... they could have safely and non-lethally immobilized him... the fact is that they chose not to, and took the easy way out by just shooting him.

It's just sloppy police work. I live in toronto, and I want cops that can maintain control in those kinds of situations... instead of freaking out and shooting this guy excessively. The cop was obviously way too nervous.
 
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