Torn ACL has me rethinking my bindings(Revisited)

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Long story short, I came in low on a soft landing and got booted. Tomahawked and came out with a complete tear in my ACL, because the binding had no vertical release function. That was a jester... Overall which would be more safe in this sort of fall if the situation were to happen again? STH2 13 or Pivot 140? I know the pivot has a forward release in the toe, does the STH? Or is it just alot of elasticity?
 
Vertical release on the toe or the heel?

There's a good chance that you would have gotten hurt regardless of what binding you were in. The only thing that might have saved you is a lower release value.
 
Older Tyrolias have a upward releasing toe. I don't believe that the AAAtack bindings do.

I wrecked my knee on 916s. I still ski 916s, just at a slightly lower DIN.

I've beatered a few times pretty hard since my surgery, and my bindings have released for me before anything

bad happened. Even with non DIN boot soles.
 
13383284:veng_m said:
idk man ive released vertically in griffons. maybe your forward pressure was off.
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I doubt it was a full on forward release, jesters have no mechanism for forward release
 
13383484:Surfboard said:
I doubt it was a full on forward release, jesters have no mechanism for forward release
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i was in my griffons when i did a tail press and locked in to it funny and then popped out of my one ski and fell backward whilst i was buttering. but i was not leaning towards the side or twisting at all. i dunno it was a weird occurence that only happened to me once.
 
13383549:veng_m said:
i was in my griffons when i did a tail press and locked in to it funny and then popped out of my one ski and fell backward whilst i was buttering. but i was not leaning towards the side or twisting at all. i dunno it was a weird occurence that only happened to me once.
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Oddly enough, that happened to a friend of mine early in the season, definitely weird. Strange
 
rossignol-fks-toe-piece.jpg
Ive always wodered, does the fks have a vertical release feature in the toe pieces? I have the 120, but I have never been in a situation where I needed to/have released in the toes vertically.
 
fks 120s and 140s and axials, all have the vertical release in the toes. the fks 180, does not have the vertical release.
 
Although the toes do have vertical release, it is very unusual to release vertically out of the toe. There are more instances of the toe piece twisting which will save you (I've seen plenty of falls where the rossi toe that comes in contact with the boot is cocked to the side). The STH toe has vertical release as well.

I got rid of my FKS after I tore my ACL for the 2nd time. There is way too much retention in that heel for me now. I'd rather come out more often than stay in till the breaking point. I ride STH and Tyrolia.
 
13383763:shin-bang said:
fks 120s and 140s and axials, all have the vertical release in the toes. the fks 180, does not have the vertical release.
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Does the toe just tilt forward to release? I need to look at a pair more closely, I never knew that they did that.
 
13383849:Lemuel said:
Although the toes do have vertical release, it is very unusual to release vertically out of the toe. There are more instances of the toe piece twisting which will save you (I've seen plenty of falls where the rossi toe that comes in contact with the boot is cocked to the side). The STH toe has vertical release as well.

I got rid of my FKS after I tore my ACL for the 2nd time. There is way too much retention in that heel for me now. I'd rather come out more often than stay in till the breaking point. I ride STH and Tyrolia.
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as a matter of fact i have had a vertical release on the 140s. only once tho. i had a super hard back seat landing and my toe just came vertically out. as for your acl that sucks. sounds like your din was too high. STH actually have slightly more elasticity than fks... so the whole retention argument doesnt really make sense to me. different strokes for different folks i guess. and yes there are tons of instances of the toe rotating even 90-180 degrees

13383984:Craig114 said:
Does the toe just tilt forward to release? I need to look at a pair more closely, I never knew that they did that.
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rossignol-fks-140-l-1213-fluo-95mm-5a2e32cf1f3a2538e0e94f6e4fca8386.jpg
yes they do as a matter of fact release vertically. if you turn the dins all the way down you can pull the wings horizontally and vertically. see where the wings attach to the housing? thats where it allows the wings to lift. allowing the boot to release vertically. however the 180 doesnt do this
 
13384329:shin-bang said:
as a matter of fact i have had a vertical release on the 140s. only once tho. i had a super hard back seat landing and my toe just came vertically out. as for your acl that sucks. sounds like your din was too high. STH actually have slightly more elasticity than fks... so the whole retention argument doesnt really make sense to me. different strokes for different folks i guess. and yes there are tons of instances of the toe rotating even 90-180 degrees

rossignol-fks-140-l-1213-fluo-95mm-5a2e32cf1f3a2538e0e94f6e4fca8386.jpg
yes they do as a matter of fact release vertically. if you turn the dins all the way down you can pull the wings horizontally and vertically. see where the wings attach to the housing? thats where it allows the wings to lift. allowing the boot to release vertically. however the 180 doesnt do this
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Dude you're kinda tripping. The FKS 14 toe (in fact all Look toes in that family, i.e. Axial2 120-140 etc) don't have a true vertical toe release. The underside of the toe wings is slightly ramped so that if you try to pull the toe out vertically, the wings will eventually be pushed apart sideways (just like normal) but the force required to do this is pretty massive compared to a horizontal release. The toe wings on these DO NOT pivot vertically. You can sort of roll out of them, and then they do this weird twisting release, and you'll know if this happens most of the time because the toe wing usually gets stuck in the release position and you have to kick them to make it reset.

Only the one-piece toe on the FKS155 and 18, and the Look Pivot 18, have a true vertical release, where the entire body of the toepiece rolls forward. If you back the DIN all the way out on an 18 you can try for yourself - although even with DIN at maybe 10-11 you can feel them move if apply enough force with your hand.
 
13384410:rozboon said:
Dude you're kinda tripping. The FKS 14 toe (in fact all Look toes in that family, i.e. Axial2 120-140 etc) don't have a true vertical toe release. The underside of the toe wings is slightly ramped so that if you try to pull the toe out vertically, the wings will eventually be pushed apart sideways (just like normal) but the force required to do this is pretty massive compared to a horizontal release. The toe wings on these DO NOT pivot vertically. You can sort of roll out of them, and then they do this weird twisting release, and you'll know if this happens most of the time because the toe wing usually gets stuck in the release position and you have to kick them to make it reset.

Only the one-piece toe on the FKS155 and 18, and the Look Pivot 18, have a true vertical release, where the entire body of the toepiece rolls forward. If you back the DIN all the way out on an 18 you can try for yourself - although even with DIN at maybe 10-11 you can feel them move if apply enough force with your hand.
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#facts
 
13384645:ThundaKilla said:
#facts
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um no, it's misconceived that the 180 can vertically eject... The toe has a lot of elastic travel, I give you that, but the heal would have to move back further than physically possible for the toe to release.

but anyways, back to the original question, STH or Fks to save my knees from another surgery and 6-9 months of rehab
 
13384410:rozboon said:
Dude you're kinda tripping. The FKS 14 toe (in fact all Look toes in that family, i.e. Axial2 120-140 etc) don't have a true vertical toe release. The underside of the toe wings is slightly ramped so that if you try to pull the toe out vertically, the wings will eventually be pushed apart sideways (just like normal) but the force required to do this is pretty massive compared to a horizontal release. The toe wings on these DO NOT pivot vertically. You can sort of roll out of them, and then they do this weird twisting release, and you'll know if this happens most of the time because the toe wing usually gets stuck in the release position and you have to kick them to make it reset.

Only the one-piece toe on the FKS155 and 18, and the Look Pivot 18, have a true vertical release, where the entire body of the toepiece rolls forward. If you back the DIN all the way out on an 18 you can try for yourself - although even with DIN at maybe 10-11 you can feel them move if apply enough force with your hand.
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totally agree with you on the 140 toe, as when i tested it just moments ago below a 3.5 din, i could get it to raise probley 20 degrees, and then the toe would split apart exactly like you said. k+ for that explanation

13384687:Surfboard said:
um no, it's misconceived that the 180 can vertically eject... The toe has a lot of elastic travel, I give you that, but the heal would have to move back further than physically possible for the toe to release.

but anyways, back to the original question, STH or Fks to save my knees from another surgery and 6-9 months of rehab
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yes this^ the 180 has the metal post that holds the whole toe. honestly MY PERSONAL opinion, would be to go fks. i have never had a smoother release from any other binding, ridden attack 13s, marker baron, and some other ghetto markers, and the axial 2. the turntable heel just makes the release so much smoother. note it is a misconception that fks prevent acl tears and such, but they dont. they just simply are smoother and i love that smooth feel on my legs and knees. especially where im fairly young and eating crap quite often.
 
13384723:shin-bang said:
totally agree with you on the 140 toe, as when i tested it just moments ago below a 3.5 din, i could get it to raise probley 20 degrees, and then the toe would split apart exactly like you said. k+ for that explanation

yes this^ the 180 has the metal post that holds the whole toe. honestly MY PERSONAL opinion, would be to go fks. i have never had a smoother release from any other binding, ridden attack 13s, marker baron, and some other ghetto markers, and the axial 2. the turntable heel just makes the release so much smoother. note it is a misconception that fks prevent acl tears and such, but they dont. they just simply are smoother and i love that smooth feel on my legs and knees. especially where im fairly young and eating crap quite often.
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Obviously I know that a binding won't save my ACL in the future, but less torque will....
 
13387345:Surfboard said:
Obviously I know that a binding won't save my ACL in the future, but less torque will....
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Well then obviously you know that it doesn't matter which binding you choose then. So why make this thread? Hmmmmmm so if you want 'less' torque, simply turn your dins down...
 
13384687:Surfboard said:
um no, it's misconceived that the 180 can vertically eject... The toe has a lot of elastic travel, I give you that, but the heal would have to move back further than physically possible for the toe to release.

but anyways, back to the original question, STH or Fks to save my knees from another surgery and 6-9 months of rehab
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Do you own a pair of 180s?

If not, you're probably not well placed to comment.

If you do, back the toe DIN all the way out, like past 8, then hook your fingers under the toe wings, place the heel of your hand basically on the DIN adjuster screw, and pull hard towards the front of the ski.
 
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