Tobbaco Ads on NS

Malczyk

Malczyk

Active member
Watching for a few months I'm surprised there wasn't a mention on here about the Undiscovered contest as well as the Lifted Vice program being funded by Swedish Match, a tobacco company from Sweden .. Snus is an addictive tobacco product that has been present in skiing for a while (racers, Euros, they even had sponsored athletes at one point) so this is nothing new but they seem to be going in very heavy here again.

The contest and ads seem to follow the rules of the FDA. The advertising is directly pointed at the NS community which you can speculate has a lot of 'of age' users but seems to have a lot of underage members ripe for the influencing with cool videos, ads, social, editorial chatter about the videos and the like.

This type of advertising is heavily regulated in many other places and the same can be said for alcohol & energy drink ads but this discussion is about tobacco. So discuss! and anyone with inside insight are welcome to comment.
 
I hate to shit on your thread, but, it is a repost. There is an active thread in the NSG about this topic. Just thought I'd kindly let you know.
 
topic:Malczyk said:
Watching for a few months I'm surprised there wasn't a mention on here about the Undiscovered contest as well as the Lifted Vice program being funded by Swedish Match, a tobacco company from Sweden .. Snus is an addictive tobacco product that has been present in skiing for a while (racers, Euros, they even had sponsored athletes at one point) so this is nothing new but they seem to be going in very heavy here again.

The contest and ads seem to follow the rules of the FDA. The advertising is directly pointed at the NS community which you can speculate has a lot of 'of age' users but seems to have a lot of underage members ripe for the influencing with cool videos, ads, social, editorial chatter about the videos and the like.

This type of advertising is heavily regulated in many other places and the same can be said for alcohol & energy drink ads but this discussion is about tobacco. So discuss! and anyone with inside insight are welcome to comment.
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So this stuff is highly regulated, which is interesting. I was involved in this pitch, and there's been a few protections put in place.

1) 3rd party data has verified that 91% of Newschoolers traffic is above the age of 18. The very young skiers are much more fragmented and reached in different places than the youth of yesterday. Loads of them are hanging out on weird social networks, apps, or fragmented around the internet. Much longer discussion, however as NS has aged our community that was 12 when they started are now as old as 28.

2) We are using a brand new behavioral targeting system, which uses 3rd party data to assess the age of a user, and display them targeted ads. This is in place for this campaign, and from what the company that provides this service tells us, its quite accurate. Its the same stuff that is used widely across the internet to handle this type of ad.

These facts together make me feel like we've put in an enormous amount of effort to make sure that this is appropriate for the legal audience. I personally think its up to a person what they want to do, and if laws are followed, kids aren't targeted then its OK.

I mean I would extend the question to you as well - when athletes on your team like Max Hill win an award for Best Smoking, do you feel that athlete should curtail their behavior because there are potentially some kids watching?

I'd be super interested in how you handle something like this as a sponsor, because as we're talking about this type of issue its great to really open it up.
 
Also, just to note: I am a father of two children, so I have some frame of reference from a parents perspective.
 
13393455:Mr.Bishop said:
I mean I would extend the question to you as well - when athletes on your team like Max Hill win an award for Best Smoking, do you feel that athlete should curtail their behavior because there are potentially some kids watching?

I'd be super interested in how you handle something like this as a sponsor, because as we're talking about this type of issue its great to really open it up.
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maxresdefault.jpg
 
Snus is much much less dangerous for one's health than alcohol, and i'm pretty sure almost 50% of edits on here feature at least one beer can...

For me, redbull is just the same. Should a 12 year old go drink redbull regularly? hell no (if you're not convinced, you should look into it, energy drinks can be BAD when abused of). Should they start snus? probably not too. But I'm seeing a shit ton of redbull exposure EVERYWHERE, and not a whole lot of snus, yet we're concerned about the latter. I guess where there is big money, ethical issues are put aside. I mean don't you think it's a little sad that energy drinks are so implemented in freeski culture? "Yeah, but look at what redbull/rockstar/monster have done for the sport, the events/edits/athletes/movies...". If snus companies were bringing big money to the table, this discussion wouldn't exist. I think that's more the issue worth discussing here.
 
13393455:Mr.Bishop said:
1) 3rd party data has verified that 91% of Newschoolers traffic is above the age of 18. The very young skiers are much more fragmented and reached in different places than the youth of yesterday. Loads of them are hanging out on weird social networks, apps, or fragmented around the internet. Much longer discussion, however as NS has aged our community that was 12 when they started are now as old as 28.
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Out of curiousity, how do they measure the age of the traffic coming through newschoolers? If a 16 year old is at home on the computer that their parents own, wouldn't the 16 year old essentially show up as being their parents? I would find it very surprising that only 1/10 NS users are under the age of 18.
 
I've never used or plan to use tobacco in the future, and I think it's cool that they're advertising. Most people on NS know about tobacco and it's harm and it's just putting money into the industry, so I like it.
 
this is in non ski gabber too. i said it before ill say it again, ive been smoking since i was 8 years old, and i completely blame newschoolers and their tobacco advertisements. if anyone wants to pay for a lawyer we could get a class action lawsuit going. should be a chill time & $$$
 
If it's chill to celebrate unhealthy choices in the content of a site (we all know what's in the edits), then perhaps advertising from such a source is fair game especially with today's targetting technology.

My advice? Only do tobacco when you're cocked.
 
13393525:jensen said:
Out of curiousity, how do they measure the age of the traffic coming through newschoolers? If a 16 year old is at home on the computer that their parents own, wouldn't the 16 year old essentially show up as being their parents? I would find it very surprising that only 1/10 NS users are under the age of 18.
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I'd like to know this as well, how do you know the age of traffic? I don't remember ever telling the truth when a website asked for my age when i was 11
 
13393711:DJAK said:
If it's chill to celebrate unhealthy choices in the content of a site (we all know what's in the edits), then perhaps advertising from such a source is fair game especially with today's targetting technology.

My advice? Only do tobacco when you're cocked.
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Dude you could extend this to any company that sponsors an athlete that promotes drugs, drinking and smoking. I mean the amount that the party lifestyle is promoted in skiing is mind boggling.
 
13393724:Mr.Bishop said:
I mean the amount that the party lifestyle is promoted in skiing is mind boggling.
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Reasons my work scares my mom, haha!

I think though that this is a huge conversation that needs to happen at some point. I think skiing is sort of "growing up" maybe and standards are changing a little. It will be important to keep the stoke and ridiculousness of skiing alive even as "culture" evolves. I think the OG "rebel" freeskiers need to be a huge part of this, maintaining that stoke while also deciding what our standards are.
 
13393724:Mr.Bishop said:
Dude you could extend this to any company that sponsors an athlete that promotes drugs, drinking and smoking. I mean the amount that the party lifestyle is promoted in skiing is mind boggling.
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I'm glad this is your problem to solve. Not mine. You have an undeniable truth, but it still may not convince. For whatever reason ads feel very different than "party content" on a platform and people like the little white sociatal lie between them. I'd bet that the party content is more persuasive than the ads, but only one of them brings out this common (and rational) response.
 
13393728:cydwhit said:
Reasons my work scares my mom, haha!

I think though that this is a huge conversation that needs to happen at some point. I think skiing is sort of "growing up" maybe and standards are changing a little. It will be important to keep the stoke and ridiculousness of skiing alive even as "culture" evolves. I think the OG "rebel" freeskiers need to be a huge part of this, maintaining that stoke while also deciding what our standards are.
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Skiing has always had a dirtbag party hard element to it, even before freeskiing was a thing. I don't really see that changing any time soon.
 
13393732:DJAK said:
I'm glad this is your problem to solve. Not mine. You have an undeniable truth, but it still may not convince. For whatever reason ads feel very different than "party content" on a platform and people like the little white sociatal lie between them. I'd bet that the party content is more persuasive than the ads, but only one of them brings out this common (and rational) response.
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I mean I think you're absolutely right. Only one brings out the heated discourse, but the other is so much more influental. I mean an athlete that kids look up to is shoved under the rug, but ads showing the same thing is scrutinized. I feel its a hypocritical standard - but I guess it is what it is. Personally when I look at my own children and try to think of them as the targets for this - I have one undeniable core belief.

If my kids are into a sport vs. hanging out at the mall and doing drugs/booze/cigs/sex/whatever - at least (and even if they got the same influences in the sport) - they're doing something extremely positive that will have a better net benefit in the long run. If you like that skier that is into drugs/drinking/cigs - but you love skiing more than anything else? Fucking fantastic.

I hope that as a parent, I can actually educate my kids to make their own right decisions. And I'm not one of these parents that forgets the fact that as a kid I did some dumb shit. The problem isn't isolating kids from what actually happens in the adult world - its giving them a framework to understand risk vs. reward and ensuring that you're a good member of society... even if you end up with a shitty vice or two.

13393789:caucasian_chad said:
Skiing has always had a dirtbag party hard element to it, even before freeskiing was a thing. I don't really see that changing any time soon.
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Bigtime dude. I mean you can watch old hot dogging movies (one Iberg is still yet to re-post as far as I remember) where they're all naked in a hot tub talking about how much cocaine they can trade for the corvette they just won in what we'd call a big air contest. There's partying in skiing, and its fucking gnarly. However again - its sport, and being involved in sport is positive if you want my opinion. Life has partying - the people who suck are the ones that are just degenerate partiers that have nothing else than the latest fix in their lives. Sport makes people do good things, and having a little fun is human.

13393798:e~b said:
im 15 years old and these ads don't sway my thoughts at all... snus is disgusting
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Good on you. Can you PM me though please? You shouldn't be seeing this, and now I'm worried there's a mistake in there somewhere. Technology can only be semi-trusted so lets get this hashed out.
 
Good on you. Can you PM me though please? You shouldn't be seeing this, and now I'm worried there's a mistake in there somewhere. Technology can only be semi-trusted so lets get this hashed out.[/QUOTE]

busted
 
13393852:fordbennett said:
Good on you. Can you PM me though please? You shouldn't be seeing this, and now I'm worried there's a mistake in there somewhere. Technology can only be semi-trusted so lets get this hashed out.

busted
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Even in the future nothing works.

13393865:hyllengren said:
Hey snus is incredible people! Stop hating start snusing
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Hail Satan!

Maybe we should enforce mandatory drug tests on everyone that is allowed to be a professional skier?
 
13393887:Mr.Bishop said:
Even in the future nothing works.

Hail Satan!

Maybe we should enforce mandatory drug tests on everyone that is allowed to be a professional skier?
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#fis
 
13393852:fordbennett said:
Good on you. Can you PM me though please? You shouldn't be seeing this, and now I'm worried there's a mistake in there somewhere. Technology can only be semi-trusted so lets get this hashed out.

busted
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i no longer see the ads so all is well #saynotodrugs
 
13393933:toastyteenagers said:
inb4 bishops kids grow up and get on ns
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The craziest part is thinking about them seeing everything that I've ever posted, that has ever been posted about me, and them analyzing me as both their dad and a regular guy.

We'll see how that goes. :)
 
I can't agree more with Bishop about IF3 best smoking award. At the end of the day all the athletes in the industry are role models to the younger generations. The shit that is in edits is no different then a snus add. Let alone what any kid can be exposed to by using the internet. I feel that more money in skiing is good.

Its also the same as Coors ad with Ski and Snowboard athletes. No one complained about that one but alcohol can cause issues just like tobacco. Maybe in a different sense but its all the same in the end.
 
13393455:Mr.Bishop said:
So this stuff is highly regulated, which is interesting. I was involved in this pitch, and there's been a few protections put in place.

1) 3rd party data has verified that 91% of Newschoolers traffic is above the age of 18. The very young skiers are much more fragmented and reached in different places than the youth of yesterday. Loads of them are hanging out on weird social networks, apps, or fragmented around the internet. Much longer discussion, however as NS has aged our community that was 12 when they started are now as old as 28.

2) We are using a brand new behavioral targeting system, which uses 3rd party data to assess the age of a user, and display them targeted ads. This is in place for this campaign, and from what the company that provides this service tells us, its quite accurate. Its the same stuff that is used widely across the internet to handle this type of ad.

These facts together make me feel like we've put in an enormous amount of effort to make sure that this is appropriate for the legal audience. I personally think its up to a person what they want to do, and if laws are followed, kids aren't targeted then its OK.

I mean I would extend the question to you as well - when athletes on your team like Max Hill win an award for Best Smoking, do you feel that athlete should curtail their behavior because there are potentially some kids watching?

I'd be super interested in how you handle something like this as a sponsor, because as we're talking about this type of issue its great to really open it up.
Click to expand...

rekt
 
Do kids actually get that influenced by an ad to start something like chew/cigs/ whatever snus is? From what I know snus is like chew pouches are something? I don't think someone is gonna see that and say "oh maybe I should start." If anything I think the ad would target someone who already has some type of nicotine habit and might chose snus over whatever else they do. Thats just how I see it. I think kids are pretty smart when it comes to tobacco nowadays. When I was in middle/high school they made a huge deal about it and it's health effects. I don't think an Ad will stray a kid away from that unless they have already started smoking.chewing.

Either way, you can't censor everything and after reading about the ways 3rd party sites work I think the problem is minimized in a way. I definitely think kids seeing pro skiers drinking/smoking weed is going to be more influential than an ad on Newschoolers. Just my opinion though.
 
13393977:Mingg said:
I don't think an Ad will stray a kid away from that unless they have already started smoking.chewing.

eh. Tobacco companies are pretty damn good at doing this.
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The most depressing part of this whole discussion is the reality the ski industry itself doesn't have the capacity to support its own best assets like NS and other media, athletes, events, etc. and is left with little choice but to relay on outside companies unrelated to skiing to keep it alive.

The reason is that the majority of the ski industry is now owned by public companies: Atomic, Salomon, K2, Volkle, Line, Powder mag, Full Tilt, Dalbello, North Face, Marker, and YES EVEN NEWSCHOOLERS!! is owned by a public company and too many more to list. . . Each year the money you put into the industry when buying their products turns into MILLION$$$ of profit which 15 years ago was then reinvested back into the industry supporting & helping grow media, athletes, events, and helping inspired & assist others to get into the sport etc.

Today that profit gets drained out of the industry and into the pockets of wallstreet investors that own shares of the parent companies that own these winter sports brands. It's the Murican way!!! and at some point in the future after years if not decades of these brands being squeezed & drained for every last bit of profit, passionate employees being fired, product being watered down and marketing budgets being slashed & burned my hope is the brands will be sold back to the passionate people that are in it for the good of the sport, most of which are still working running these brands with their hands tied behind their back in the name of increased public company profits. At that point there's a chance we can start reinvesting back into the sport & supporting ourselves without begging for anything we can get from any & all outside corporations willing to give us a dollar!
 
13394046:JLev said:
At that point there's a chance we can start reinvesting back into the sport & supporting ourselves without begging for anything we can get from any & all outside corporations willing to give us a dollar!
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Jlev 2016
 
13394046:JLev said:
At that point there's a chance we can start reinvesting back into the sport & supporting ourselves without begging for anything we can get from any & all outside corporations willing to give us a dollar!
Click to expand...

Jlev 2016
 
As an underagerage tabacco user i dont see whats wrong with it. Snus is a much healthier tabacco root compared to Dip, or even worse smoking.Although it is expensive as fuck. i dont see why they shouldnt advertise.
 
13393939:Mr.Bishop said:
The craziest part is thinking about them seeing everything that I've ever posted, that has ever been posted about me, and them analyzing me as both their dad and a regular guy.

We'll see how that goes. :)
Click to expand...

Poor guy. But you could ban their asses whenever they misbehave.
 
13394046:JLev said:
The most depressing part of this whole discussion is the reality the ski industry itself doesn't have the capacity to support its own best assets like NS and other media, athletes, events, etc. and is left with little choice but to relay on outside companies unrelated to skiing to keep it alive.

The reason is that the majority of the ski industry is now owned by public companies: Atomic, Salomon, K2, Volkle, Line, Powder mag, Full Tilt, Dalbello, North Face, Marker, and YES EVEN NEWSCHOOLERS!! is owned by a public company and too many more to list. . . Each year the money you put into the industry when buying their products turns into MILLION$$$ of profit which 15 years ago was then reinvested back into the industry supporting & helping grow media, athletes, events, and helping inspired & assist others to get into the sport etc.

Today that profit gets drained out of the industry and into the pockets of wallstreet investors that own shares of the parent companies that own these winter sports brands. It's the Murican way!!! and at some point in the future after years if not decades of these brands being squeezed & drained for every last bit of profit, passionate employees being fired, product being watered down and marketing budgets being slashed & burned my hope is the brands will be sold back to the passionate people that are in it for the good of the sport, most of which are still working running these brands with their hands tied behind their back in the name of increased public company profits. At that point there's a chance we can start reinvesting back into the sport & supporting ourselves without begging for anything we can get from any & all outside corporations willing to give us a dollar!
Click to expand...

TRUTH.
 
Im 17 and wouldn't do snus, chew, or cigs, but thats just me. Personally I don't mind seeing the advertisements, but would much rather see a ski company advertising something directly related to the site.
 
As JLev said, the lack of reinvestment occurring in the industry is the root cause behind why media sources like NS have no choice but to take these high-paying ad campaigns from companies they might not otherwise associate with. I personally would prefer the ads not run if there was that option, but I care more about NS being able to support itself than having to look at some ads I just chose to ignore. Sure, I'd rather see ski ads for an independent ski company, but I'm happy knowing that my view contributes to the well being of NS.
 
13394251:IBAM said:
As JLev said, the lack of reinvestment occurring in the industry is the root cause behind why media sources like NS have no choice but to take these high-paying ad campaigns from companies they might not otherwise associate with. I personally would prefer the ads not run if there was that option, but I care more about NS being able to support itself than having to look at some ads I just chose to ignore. Sure, I'd rather see ski ads for an independent ski company, but I'm happy knowing that my view contributes to the well being of NS.
Click to expand...

This topic keeps coming up. I'm seriously tempted to try experimenting with a really simple subscription model...
 
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