To those changing their mind's on Obama.

JstHuckIt

JstHuckIt

Member
This is why America scares me. I was at college, not a fan of McCain at all, but knew that we had to try to play goalie to prevent what is now happening. Sooo many conservatives called this out, and it's the damn republicans fault for selecting McCain anyway. We had a party election night, I was one of the two conservatives there. I would ask people why they wanted to vote for Obama, they would say things like, "He's going to fix everything Bush fucked up", or "He's gonna make a difference in Capital City." and I heard this one a lot, "He's going to bring peace to the world."

-Nothing I heard was based on a platform, nothing I heard was based off anything he did in the past, it was all based upon hope for change.

What has he done so far, from his platform?

Economy- The housing bubble had just popped thanks to high risk loans from Fannie May and Freddie Mac. Obama was going to fix it with a stimulis and aide with people who could not pay their mortage...What has he done? People with a prior history of being able to pay their mortages have been told that they do not qualify, whereas people with little or no record of paying their moratge do qualify. He is doing exactly what he said he would do...Obama's stimulus brings 3.27 T to the table to aide our economy...it is easy to see that it has done nothing but here is a simple Q&A that demonstrates how little it does..http://rismedia.com/2009-02-18/qa-how-will-the-stimulus-plan-help-me/

Health Care- Obama's plan states that it would initiate competition between the federal gov. and the private insurace sectors, unfortunately this is a faclacy because no one can compete when the competition is subsidised. (I have a solution for this, however it is not the intention of the article) It would essentially socialize healthcare. (hold on) I know Obama says that it is not socialized healthcare, but as soon as the private sector is not able to compete, it becomes a single payer system, ie socialized healthcare.

New Energy- This is kindof a touchy subject because if we take away the "climate crisis debate" I believe that majority of americans feel that going "green" is bennificial to our future. But currently wind and solar are not an efficent means of supplying due to the fact that they are not always dependable, they are not profitable (due to their high costs), and they do not store. In the first stimulus 41 bill was spent (once again of money that we don't have) they are now talking that they may need to spend more.

Education- Education has been the black hole that maney has been thrown into for a long time. No child left behind spent unheard of amounts of money towards education. Obama felt that it needed to be reformed and fixed by "improving K-12 education, and expand higher education". 48 bill was spent on education with a promise of more to follow.

These were issues on Obama's campaign website. They were not specific, nothing specified how. here's the link to all of his campaign issueshttp://www.barackobama.com/issues/index_campaign.php

The purpose of this thread was not to bash Obama or liberals for that matter. It was to get people to understand the need for everyone to wake up, and to get others around you to wake up as well. We as a country elected a president that had little prior experience and who wasn;t very specific in his campaign. In the case of many administrations, little change happens b/c of the understanding of the importance of the legislation in question. Currently (though the promise of Bi-partisanship) we have a Dem. house, a Dem. cabinet, and a Dem. president...legislation that they feel suited to be implemented will have no problem getting passed. I think people are now starting to understand what is happening, but they are blaming Obama! But it is not Obama's fault...for the most part (I understand not all), Obama is doing exactly what he said he would do!

As a generation as a whole, we need to better inform ourselves, and never let something happen again. We need to become much more active within and with the government on all levels. The government is supposed to be in our best interest, and politicians are not doing it. We need to stand up even if it requires revolution and end this "politician"/"special interest" based government! Debate is good, but not if special interests and bargains are whats dictating the direction...WE NEED TO STOP THIS!

 
Truth. An uninformed voter is arguably one of the most dangerous threats our country faces. You're right, people should take a more active role in government, especially at this critical time when its playing such a larger role in our lives...

An educated decision is the best decision.
 
Like you said, it is partly the Republicans fault for this - they chose McCain. And a vote for McCain was a vote for Palin.

As far as his platform goes, it has only been 6 months. I know it seems like a long time, but things take time.

Economy - Obama is attempting to fix the economy. If you see a homeless man on the street, do you give him a dollar? Or do you find someone in the grocery store to give a dollar to? These "subprime mortgages" occurred during the Bush Administration, which we all know was very friendly toward big business.

You can't be angry at Obama for trying to fix the economy the way he sees fit. Do you remember what Bush did to try to fix the economy? TARP? Bailout money being used for executive bonuses? Seems like America has short-term memory loss to me.

Health Care - I'm not going to get into this, as I don't know enough about it. But it seems to me as there is no plausible way to fix health care without pissing people off. Also, in theory, socialism is a good idea.

New Energy - Here in MA, the Wind Energy Siting Reform Act of 2009 was just passed. The act is supposed to create 2,000 milliwatts of energy by 2020. Right now, the state produces 7 MW. An increase in clean energy this size would power hundreds of thousands of homes.

Education - I don't understand your point. You're mad that he is spending money on education?

All in all, I respect you for voicing your opinions, but this thread will end like all political threads on NS - in the shitter. Because every uneducated little prick on here (including me and you) think that they know everything. We don't.

 
I just want to address health care:

Can anyone who doesn't like the idea of socialized single payer health care explain the rational behind it. Do you understand how, in principle, it saves us money? What the situation is right now, some of the major problems with it, and some examples of socialized medicine in the US already?

i'm tempted to post the answers right away, but i'll give it a little time to see what the dissenting view on it is. If you don't understand the way our system *doesn't* work right now, or how the proposed plan addresses these short comings look into it, but don't bother saying that what we have now is good, or *shudder* say that we have the best medicine in the world -- unless you're willing to admit that you're only talking about the richest of the rich-- you might have a point there.

 
Education does need to be reformed, it's the system thats not working, not the fact that it does not have enough money...Unfortunately Obama is only throwing money at it. I was trying to stay away from what I think needs to be done but you dragged me into it.

As far as health care, I believe that the U.S. has a good healthcare system, just an inflated payment system...you see, people go to the doctor for everything, some not paying for it at all...this of course drives up costs for the hospital which then gets passed on to those who can pay...you see, healthcare is a business, that's right, a business. The power has left the client (patient) and was placed in the hands of hospitals due to government policies, restrictions, and laws. Another reason why prices have gone up is malpractice lawsuits. So let's think about this...We want the government to run this? Have any of you guys ever been to the DMV? My God I don't want that...So what could be a better option? What is another similar form of insurance? Car insurance! Same principles...with good driving comes lower rates, living a healthy life style would bring you lower rates...If the FED were to make it mandatory for people to aquire health insurance as they do car insurance, the market would become more competitive...thus (simple economics) the price would come down.

And I know it's cool to blame Bush for everything, but don't blame him for the mortage fallout...that is about as ignorant as it gets...

 
if you want to know what government run health care would look like, don't look at the DMV, look at the Medicare/Medicaid program and the Veterans Affairs as those are both government run
 
I also just have to ask what is so wrong with sarah palin? I've never understood why people hate her sooo passionately.
 
no, those are different countries, if you want to see how OUR government handles it, and has, for the past 50 years -- those are the places to look.
 
Just curious but has anything been done about Social Security?I remember it being a big topic during the Bush era but since the fall of the economy I haven't heard anything about it. THAT is something that needs to be fixed as well
 
hardly anyone in America knows enough about politics to make an informed decision on who to vote for. thats why they should make it an actual race or some shit. Cannonball Run style. a race from Tijuana, Mexico to capital hill. whoever gets their first is the new president.
 
I used to live in the UK, and the general consensus was that their health care was crap. I personally don't like that I would send tax dollars to other people when one of the benefits of my job is free health care! In my shoes, socialized health care blows in every direction.

Quality of care goes out the window with the new plan. One of the best things about the US is that you have the freedom to decide whether or not you want health care and decide if you want to pay for it. Not everyone can afford car insurance, so those people choose to get a bus pass or a bike. It sucks for them of course, but they have the choice and they have to live within their means. My mothers family was dirt poor after my grandfather was murdered and they suddenly had no income, so they made sacrifices. The government didn't take someone else money and hand it to them (and honestly my grandmother is so damn stubborn and proud I don't think she would have taken it). I'm rambling now...but you get the idea.

Essentially I dislike that it transfers the burden of payment and decision making from the people to the government. The real problem with health care is that people sue left and right and doctors have to pay ungodly high premiums for malpractice coverage, and that cost gets to the people.
 
Social Security should be done away with entirely. The check is pitiful for what you have to put into it. I don't even factor it into my retirement plan, I just get pissed at how much Uncle Sam takes from me for it every month.
 
No, look at the DMV. Those other two programs....you can't even use those to see what it would be like. Imagine the entire US population now using those two programs....and you have the DMV!
 
Prove it...I actually got to take her out fishing up in AK. This was before she ran for VP though. I thought she was funny, cool, and very intelligent. The camera and media can do weird things to people.
 
I apologize that I forgot to mention this, we would have to do something for those who can't afford health care...I haven't figured that one out yet though. but I'm working on it.
 
Maybe in regards with younger people, but you have to remember a couple of things. She isn't a groomed politician, she draws enormous crowds, she doesn't use a teleprompter...
 
and as president she would be in front of the camera and media 24/7. not exactly the perception id like the rest of the world to have of us. and i seriously doubt shes that bright. did you read that editorial on cap and trade....
 
No, you gotta a link... I was regarding her as a VP not the President. I unlike most Americans feel that there are some certain qualifications that need to be met before a president can be elected.
 
Snail, answer this question:

Right now, If I am uninsured, and I need to go to the emergency room, who pays for my care?

If you didn't know, the VA is the worlds largest organization of socialized medicine. Also over the past 20 years, when you look at trends in out of pocket money spent and quality of care, Medicare/Medicaid have higher quality care with lower costs that even those with private insurance. These points stand contrary to what you think is true.

The fact is, right now the US population, a private insurance health care system pays substantially more than any other population for care, and we do not even enjoy the highest quality of care.
 
seriously you started a legitimate thread about Obama, and his polices, if you want to talk about palin, make another thread, this is only going to side track and ruin this thread
 
i think bush did something right. Although the war in iraq and the middle east invasion was a money pit in the short term, If we do not exit: we as a country can recoup our losses with the profits from the billions of barrels of oil sitting beneath the countries we invaded.

These countries hold the majority of the world's oil supply. at this point in technology: If we control the oil, we control the world.

I think that may have been the plan. To back out now would make the debt that we're in worthless. And that's why I don't like Obama. If I had been older during the Bush presidency, i might have realized this sooner.
 
You don't, as I said you have the choice to be insured or not. That's your right.

Did you purposefully call me Snail....?
 
but you are still paying for it! so why not pay the exponentially cheaper cost of basic care in the long run, rather than the insanely expensive cost of ER visits.
 
something most people don't know, is that you can go to many catholic hospitals, and if you cant afford your care, they dont make you pay for it.
and my mom's a nurse, it happens allll the time.
 
One thing that drives our costs way up is our use of technology. We use way more MRIs CATs and PETs, also pap smears and mammograms. This makes us the best at knowing what to do for a sick person. Unfortunately we are one of the worst at actually giving the care.
 
You can go to any ER...Another suggested health care was a emergency fund st up, small percentage comes out of your pay check, and if you need to go to the ER you pay from that...often times, if you pay cash, you can get the price knocked down like 40%
 
Vetrens getting AIDS at Walter Reed and the filthy conditions that were found there is enough for me to be terrified of the government controlling my healthcare.

Where the fuck in the constitution does it authorize the government to become a health care provider?

oh wait no fucking where.
 
also, look at the non-american government run health programs too.
like canada, canadian healthcares horrible, because the gov is in charge.

 
Its really very basic economics. Part of Congresses current bill on Health Care is that all Americans will have to have health insurance, either through the new public insurance plan or private insurance providers, if you choose not to get insurance or if your a small business trying to control costs by not providing insurance you will be fined a substantial amount of money. So the effect of the is that all Americans will have insurance and will be able to go to the doctor/ER for free (kind of) whenever they want.

That means demand for health care will sky rocket as soon as this bill is passed, putting a massive strain on our current system. You will have to wait longer for care, no question about it. Your quality of care will decrees again no question that it will. Because demand will outpace supply there will always be a shortage of health care no matter how much money the government throws at it.

This is all ridiculous and it makes me ashamed that it's happening in America. We will reap what we sow, we are seeing some of that now with our current recession but things will only get worse as the federal government gains more and more centralized power.
 
I don't get how the democrat party labels thomas jefferson as the father of their party when he opted for smaller government and fewer taxes yet thats the exact opposite of what the democrat party wants
 
no typo, sorry

It's not a question of choice or not, if you don't have money, you don't have the option to be insured, but this is besides the point. The fact of the matter is, when an uninsured person goes into the emergency room, it's the TAX PAYER who picks up the bill. This is right now.

What would you rather, pay for me to go see a doctor for a check-up, or wait till i need to go to the emergency room, or develop a chronic disease and pay for it then... either way the tax payers are the ones who have to pay the bill.

Universal health care opts for preventative care over reactionary care in the idea that it's cheaper to stay healthy, than to develop heart disease, and pay for the treatment of a heart attack. The failure to understand this by those who oppose universal health care astounds me.

Look at the most significant burdens on our health care system, and you'll see it's chronic conditions that arise from situations that are totally preventable.

 
Really? If this was the reason for the war (and it probably was), I for one would have appreciated it if Bush had come out and said it instead of sending up a smokescreen of "terror" and "WMD." What you're describing--invading countries to acquire natural resources--is essentially imperialism, and the Declaration was (supposedly) essential a rejection of imperialistic power. This kind of hypocrisy is what kills me about America.
 
You're right that the problem with the current system is that if someone goes to the Emergency Room and they don't have the money to pay for it, the taxpayers foot the bill. But the way to fix that and lower cost of care while increasing quality isn't for the taxpayer to pay for doctor visits as well as emergency room visits for those who can't pay, it's for the tax payer to quit paying for the ER visits in the first place. Why do I as a tax payer have to pay for some one to have the luxury of on demand medical care, something that mot people work very long and hard to be able to afford. Health care is not a right by any definition, it is a luxury and it is so expensive today in America because people and the government treat it like it is a right. Now I'm not going to suggest that we not provide health care for those of us who are the most disadvantaged like children or people with mental handicaps, but the idea that someone who is able to provide for themselves (and pay for cable, and cell phones and what ever other luxuries people spend money on besides health care) at the poverty line or above deserve free health care paid for by hard working individuals like my parents and many others is absurd.
 
Don't want to pay for hood rat babies or fat ass heartlanders. I don't care if I have to pay more for myself, I don't want to spend a dime on anyone else. Selfish? no. Expecting me to pay for your shit is.
 
im not doubting you, but if you have any sort of source for this, that would be great. ide love to read about how much greater medicare is over private insurance...

the conundrum comes into the picture when you start talking cost, and how to pay for it.. ... and last i checked i dont believe medicare is doing so hot financially...
 
exactly

People just don't understand that, "Health care is not a right" you have the right to get health care and the doctor has the right to give it to you. Don't you think it's kind of rude to ask other people to pay for your health care? I do.
 
first of all well written thread dicussion. Obama has done what exactly what he said he wanted to do. i would consider myself liberal but am surprised how much money he is spending to stimulate the economy espeacially when the debt for the u.s is extremly high. alot of people did not look at his policies but did simply believed he was a "miracle" man. i must say i do support some of the policies such as closing gitmo (although he really should have thought that out better, and second he should have know other countries would not want these detainees that is just common sence) and moving troops out of iraq to afghanistan. i am from canada, and our healthcare is actaully run by the provinces(basically a state). healthcare is better or worse depending on the province. our system could be much better but i do like it better paying for healthcare. and our system is actaully not completly free there are some things you do have to pay for e.g a cast if you break arm. obama in at the end of his presidentcy will probably judge on how well the econmy recouvers. and to me sarah palin never knew what she was talking about. she missed the point on many key topics and the media did play her family up to much which i was unfair however she got distroyed(my opinion) by biden on t.v debates. back to main discussion though, alot of people jsut believed obama would wave a magic wand and the world would be saved and did not actaully look into his policies. many more people should have questioned how he would acomplishes this task.

spark notes: i think too many people look at obama as a mircale man

i support social healthcare,troops to afghanistan, and closing gitmo

obama spent to much money on the economy

sarah palin just comes off as crazy to me
 
There's just no sense of reading the newspaper or watching the daily news when I can simply just click into NSG...
 
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