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ZachAndCheese
Member
Sparknotes:
Raping = Bad
Raping = Bad
Scaredwhiteboy
Active member
Holy shit, it's written by a woman. All this sexual assault crap was making me think there were no levelheaded girls left.
People really need to stop appending the word "culture" to anything they don't like just to make it seem like a more serious problem. Hookup culture, drug culture, rape culture, etc
People really need to stop appending the word "culture" to anything they don't like just to make it seem like a more serious problem. Hookup culture, drug culture, rape culture, etc
Kooky_Lukey
Active member
13257131:ZachAndCheese said:
That's not what this was about at all...
And it seems like from this story you are going to have to tape record your lady saying "yes I want to have sex". Pretty much straight BS if you ask me but whatevs
TheButterHashira
Active member
Could the guy in the top bunk not tell if it was rape or not?
If it's the first time you're trying to get it on with a girl it's wise to ask in clear english "do you want to have sex?". I really think it should be obvious whether or not she wants to, but some girls are hard to read and some dudes meander through life without any social skills.
I don't want anyone to be raped and I agree with some liberal hippie chicks when they say we have a rape culture that blames the victim all too often. This case sounds like the girl came to regret her sexual encounter only after people found out about it in her diary, but i don't fucking know.
If it's the first time you're trying to get it on with a girl it's wise to ask in clear english "do you want to have sex?". I really think it should be obvious whether or not she wants to, but some girls are hard to read and some dudes meander through life without any social skills.
I don't want anyone to be raped and I agree with some liberal hippie chicks when they say we have a rape culture that blames the victim all too often. This case sounds like the girl came to regret her sexual encounter only after people found out about it in her diary, but i don't fucking know.
cool_name
Active member
“I said no, no, and then I gave in.”
Since when is persuasion the same thing as rape, so what she said no at first, what matters is her opinion about them having sex as they actually began having sex, which judging by her quote saying she gave in, was that she was okay with it.
Since when is persuasion the same thing as rape, so what she said no at first, what matters is her opinion about them having sex as they actually began having sex, which judging by her quote saying she gave in, was that she was okay with it.
13257301:cool_name said:
I wouldn't think about it like this; once she says no, just leave it alone. Don't continue to press the issue trying to change her mind because even if she says yes, there's always the later "well I was scared to keep saying no because he was so aggressive about it" possibility.
Just respect the decision. First because it's disrespectful and scummy to try to talk someone who doesn't want to have sex with you into having sex with you. But if you don't care about that, then do it because it's not worth the risk to you of having something like the above story happen.
They need to start jailing peoples parents who push them to file false rape charges. I had a friend who got hit with this shit and it just about ruined his life. Even though the charges got dropped eventually it's not something that just magically goes away.
I'm not saying real rape shouldn't be prosecuted, just that false allegations should be pursued as hard.
The problem with this is that somebody could be legitimately raped and get fucked over saying they lied blah blah blah. Idk, something needs to be done though.
I had consensual sex, wrote about it in my diary and everything was cool until months-year later when mommy found my diary and then we decided I got raped.
Parents, just because she's you're little princess doesn't mean she's not a little slut that likes to go out, get drunk, dance topless on a table, and end the night seeing how many big dicks she can fit inside of her.
/im done
I'm not saying real rape shouldn't be prosecuted, just that false allegations should be pursued as hard.
The problem with this is that somebody could be legitimately raped and get fucked over saying they lied blah blah blah. Idk, something needs to be done though.
I had consensual sex, wrote about it in my diary and everything was cool until months-year later when mommy found my diary and then we decided I got raped.
Parents, just because she's you're little princess doesn't mean she's not a little slut that likes to go out, get drunk, dance topless on a table, and end the night seeing how many big dicks she can fit inside of her.
/im done
robbinJAHood
Active member
13257370:J.D. said:
sad fact is that some guys do try this.say no and then they just beg and beg. its really fucking annoying and makes me feel uncomfortable as fuck
The worst thong about false rape accusations is the facet you ruined someones life- the alleged rapist now has to deal with a false report on a serious crime. It makes it harder for support for survivors, and drills in the importance of a clear verbal agreement.
Honestly, people who regret sex then pull that shit are low. I've NEVER (thank goodness!!) had a guy be upset and refuse to stop when I say stop, or express that it's not happening. It's shitty that people think it's cool to change their mind after an act is done, and go about as if it was an extremely traumatic event.
Honestly, people who regret sex then pull that shit are low. I've NEVER (thank goodness!!) had a guy be upset and refuse to stop when I say stop, or express that it's not happening. It's shitty that people think it's cool to change their mind after an act is done, and go about as if it was an extremely traumatic event.
cool_name
Active member
13257370:J.D. said:
Well obviously there is a certain point where you should just stop trying, but there is also sometimes a point where you should keep trying. Obviously that requires a judgement call about wether she is being coy or serious and one should always play it safe when In doubt
connecticunt
Member
I almost punched a girl in the throat last year because of some stupid shit like this. She lived on my floor and we were talking one day and she asks if she can have my opinion on something so I say sure thinking it'll just be about a stupid outfit dilemma or something.
She then goes on to tell me about how she had sex with this guy that lived on the floor below us and then he fucked her roommate and she wanted to get back at him. So she asked me "even if I wanted to have sex then, now that I realize it was a mistake, can I say it was rape and sue him? I just want him out of this school so I don't have to be reminded of it anymore." I told her that if she did, I would definitely be in that court room talking about what she just told me and do everything in my power to defend the kid.
She was so pissed and "anonymously" reported me to our RA a couple times for things I wasn't doing. Such a fucking scumbag. But seriously guys protect yourself any way you can. It honestly wouldn't be a bad idea to have her sign something before you stick it in. Girls are fucking nuts and there are so many girls now who try to take advantage of the system. Yes rape is bad and when a someone gets raped, the rapist should be punished to the utmost extent. But this ruining someone's life forever just because he hit and quit is just as bad.
She then goes on to tell me about how she had sex with this guy that lived on the floor below us and then he fucked her roommate and she wanted to get back at him. So she asked me "even if I wanted to have sex then, now that I realize it was a mistake, can I say it was rape and sue him? I just want him out of this school so I don't have to be reminded of it anymore." I told her that if she did, I would definitely be in that court room talking about what she just told me and do everything in my power to defend the kid.
She was so pissed and "anonymously" reported me to our RA a couple times for things I wasn't doing. Such a fucking scumbag. But seriously guys protect yourself any way you can. It honestly wouldn't be a bad idea to have her sign something before you stick it in. Girls are fucking nuts and there are so many girls now who try to take advantage of the system. Yes rape is bad and when a someone gets raped, the rapist should be punished to the utmost extent. But this ruining someone's life forever just because he hit and quit is just as bad.
13257301:cool_name said:
persuasion isn't rape... I mean, it is a very fucking shitty thing to do. But if a girl says okay, then she gives consent and there isn't anything illegal in that.
I've been associated with people who cry rape and it is absolutely terrible. Just because you fucked up and regret having sex does not give you the right to ruin someone else's fucking life.
Rape is fucking serious. It's one of the worst things someone could go through and live with. It's something no one would understand unless they have dealt with it. And it's just a shame some people accuse guys that they regret having sex with of it.
cool_name
Active member
13257701:*SBCmingg* said:
Ya I know, from the article though it seems like that is what happened, she wasn't fully on board at first, but then changed her mind for whatever reason.
It is a really tough situation regardless though , because their is never any real concrete evidence for these cases, and that makes it very hard to ensure that both no innocent person gets wrongly accused and that those who truly did rape someone don't get to go free. You also don't want to make it any harder for someone to come forward saying they were raped, because that is already hard enough.
The one universal I believe though is that universities should have virtually no part in any of these cases, it is a criminal matter and should be treated as one.
SPskier543
Active member
This is definitely a growing problem at almost every college/university in the country. Girls need to understand that getting tipsy and unleashing your inner whore then regretting it is not rape, and there should be consequences for those who wrongfully accuse guys of it because even though the guy could be found not guilty, that shit sticks for years and years down the road. It also takes away the legitimacy and seriousness of ACTUAL rape and sexual assault. Hopefully they make an example of one of these girls falsely accusing in the very near future to deter anymore similar situations from occurring.
cool_name
Active member
13257763:SPskier543 said:
I disagree, punishments for falsely accusing rape would surely make it even more difficult for someone who truly was raped to come forward, there already is a problem with victim blaming make it hard for some people to come out about what happened and punishment would clearly make it worse. Granted, I wish we could punish them, but I think the cons outweigh the pros in this case
SPskier543
Active member
13257779:cool_name said:
How? People who falsely accuse anyone of anything are degenerates and deserved to be punished, especially with any situation regarding rape/sexual harassment as it is an incredibly serious matter. I've seen 2 recent false accusations cases of this at my school and it seriously fucks up the guys lives for the foreseeable future, and college and the years following graduation are pretty much the foundation to the rest of your life. The big issue is taking away the legitimacy from actual rape, I'm pretty sure any actual rape victim would agree. Rape and sexual assault is serious and should not be thrown around so commonly as it currently is.
cool_name
Active member
13257795:SPskier543 said:
How, by adding a whole other thing the victim has to worry about, who wouldn't be more scarred about coming forward if they know their is a risk of people saying they don't believe your story and you are now going to jail. Come forward saying you were raped will never be an easy task, due to the emotional trauma, there is no need to make it any harder.
Yes, I agree false accusations are terrible and that those who make them should be punished, but I feel that such punishment could keep people who have been really raped from coming forward. Yes, false accusations do exist and seem to be far to common, but real rapes also exist and getting raped will always be more traumatic then getting accused of rape, therefore are focus should be on stopping rapes rather then stopping false accusations.
cool_name
Active member
13257847:exiledinboston said:
In a perfect world sure, but what about in are not so perfect world? Most university rape cases boil down to he says she says, so what is stopping people from believing that someone's story is fabricated when there is no hard evidence to support either side, the risk would always be present, and a rape victim does not need that extra stress and emotional trauma of not knowing if her story holds enough weight or if she might be instead punished for lacking the needed evidence instead
13257795:SPskier543 said:
It's already hard enough to come forward. It would only add stress to the situation. Lets say there is too little of evidence to convict.. then what? Does the person get accused of a false accusation? Even if they weren't, to the public it could appear so and it would be way harder for the victim.
However I do think something needs to happen about false accusations. There are too many of them. Rape clearly is taken seriously and really should be. But because of this false accusations are not always identified.
SPskier543
Active member
13257865:cool_name said:
I am saying there should be consequences for cases that is is CLEAR that it is a false accusation. If someone actually gets raped or assaulted, evidence should be fairly obvious but even if there is the slightest amount of evidence pointing towards legitimate assault in any case, obviously they wouldn't get in trouble for the false charge. This would be to deter and hopefully end the "I took 4 shots at a party and hooked up with a not so attractive guy. People found out, so now I am saying I was raped and taking him to court so I can remain popular" type cases.
cool_name
Active member
13257880:SPskier543 said:
When are rape cases ever clear though, you are forgetting that almost all university rape cases only have two witness, the accuser and the accused. Not to mention, say someone does falsely accuse someone and as the case begins to move forward they realise the grave repercussions that will result from what they are about to do and they begin to have second thoughts, what are the chances that they come clean if doing so will result in them ending up in prison?
SPskier543
Active member
13257878:*SBCmingg* said:
In cases where there is sufficient evidence confirming a false accusation, that is when the accuser should be held responsible for their lying and false statements. If there is too little evidence pointing to either, obviosuly it would be wrong to apply it then. In one of the cases I've heard the girl eventually admitted to not being raped, but just having regret. She walked away from it and continued life like it never happened and continued being a slut while the guy had to continue dealing with that shit and lawyer fees and whatnot. Complete bullshit if you ask me.
SPskier543
Active member
13257887:cool_name said:
So continue with the case and put the wrongfully accused guy in prison instead? This would be to deter and hopefully end these cases so this wouldn't be an issue. This discussion is pointless so I'm done now..
cool_name
Active member
13257894:SPskier543 said:
That is exactly what would of happened in the example you provided above if there were repercussions for lying. Yes, it may deter a few cases, but it would also cause people who may of before admitted to lying to hold to there story and follow through with putting an innocent man in jail.
Tell yourself whatever you want, we both know that you are done because you know you have lost, not because the discussion is the stupid
gnarballsianm
Member
This is the same sort of shit that can happen to somebody in a minor fender bender, they can come back and say, "oh you hurt my neck from the minor dent you gave my car 3 months back and now I am going to sue you," shit happens, people can be greedy, that is the moral of the story right there.
SPskier543
Active member
13257899:cool_name said:
If there was a clear consequence to false accusations, any semi rational person would not risk it and not begin a case at all. People keep overlooking what happens to the accused in these situations, the accusers prances off and leaves the guy scrambling to keep his life from falling apart and watches as his future crumbles even when found not guilty, that case and non guilty verdict involving such a serious matter is still a HUGE negative scar on someones life, and especially in college where your real adult life is just beginning. These false accusations need to stop, not just continuing filtering through them to find the actual rape cases.
Now I'm done because I am getting up to go skiing in 5 hrs, jackass.
miroz
Active member
13257701:*SBCmingg* said:
Technically untrue, but it depends on the circumstance of the word persuasion. It was already discussed above, but consent under duress is not necessarily the same as plain old consent.
The reason this issue is so difficult is twofold: it's fucking serious and causes horrible trauma to victims, and it's also soooo full of gray areas. The reason people are able to get away with falsely pointing fingers is because of the gray. People listen to it because it's serious.
I think that women need to be treated as humans, not conquests. I think that falsifying rape allegations should be a serious offense. In my idealized bubble, respect gets respect.
13257699:connecticunt said:
Report her to the administration. If they don't care let the guy know, put her on blast with some handbills talking about how much of a whore she is.
She'll probably do it to a guy at some point.
Or just push her down a flight of stairs and do the world a favor.
Idk shit like that makes me rage. The fact that she was just casually saying "Oh yeah I totally wanted to fuck this guy but later on he fucked someone else and it hurt my feelings so I'm thinking of ruing his life for ever because my feelings are hurt".
Shit like this BLOWS for people who have really been raped. There are always the "What a whore" stuff that they have to face after being legitimately raped, but these cases just pile it on.
Maybe rape survivors will start a group and help sue the fuck out of, or break the kneecaps of these assholes.
13257779:cool_name said:
Or not. Letting whores falsely accuse people of rape and not punishing them, set's a shit precedent. They ruin somebodies life and they aren't risking some serious serious punishments? Fuck that. Girls lying about rape has just as big if not more of an impact. IT all depends on how it's set up. It should definitely be set up to where there needs to be serious evidence so that people that were raped don't get a double whammy but some of these cases it's legitimately proven that they're lying whores. If this chicks diary(which I haven't read obviously) talks about hooking up with him and it being decent and then months later it's rape fuck that bitch.
13257803:VinnieF said:Just carry around a few of these. it totally won't kill the mood when you whip one out and ask her to sign it. staple a condom to it too, just to be extra prepared.
What kind of kinky sex have you been having?
13257878:*SBCmingg* said:
Something needs to be done, but let's not do anything. SEEMS LEGIT
Also rape is taken pretty fucking seriously most of the time. It's also a fine line of trying to make it an easier process for people to come out with the TRUTH that they were raped and leading people who weren't raped to making a rape allegation.
It's not a perfect world, there will always be rapists who get away, girls who were raped that didn't come forward, and whores that didn't regretted consensual sex.
I just think it's mind blowingly fucked up that having the tiny thought of your consensual sex getting you charged with rape isn't really all that paranoid.
Scaredwhiteboy
Active member
The problem with getting proof of consent from girls is nobody wants somebody else to have a record of their sex life. I don't want anybody to have proof of my sexual conquests because I'm scared of who they might share it with. I can only imagine girls, who have to worry about being called a slut, would be even more opposed to somebody having proof that they've slept with them.
Oh, and requiring people to prove their innocence with proof of consent is a blatant violation of innocent until proven guilty.
Oh, and requiring people to prove their innocence with proof of consent is a blatant violation of innocent until proven guilty.
GayWolf420
Active member
I don't find this hard to understand at all, it says to me if shes says no, then fine. I wont press any longer, she doesn't want to have sex with my ugly ass and that's fine. Im not soo emasculated I feel the need to assert power over women.
13257865:cool_name said:
Everything this guy has posted in this thread is on point.
Yes, false accusations are terrible. The instinct is to want to punish them harshly. But that only makes sense if harsh punishment would produce improved results.
The instances of false rape accusations are massively outnumbered by the instances of sexual assault that go unreported, because the victim is afraid of being disbelieved. In other words, UNREPORTED sexual assault is a larger problem than FALSELY REPORTED sexual assault, and it isn't close.
Placing an additional concern in the way of reporting a sexual assault is therefore a pretty bad idea at the outset. Victims already find ways of talking themselves out of reporting these crimes - "No one will believe me, I don't have any proof, I'm afraid of repercussions to my career, I don't want people to look at me and think 'there's that girl who got raped'", etc. Adding "If I can't prove it I might go to jail" is a significant deterrent. Like I say, they're already looking for an excuse to just forget about it and try to move on, because doing anything else is going to force them to relive it in painful detail over and over. There is almost never a "clear cut" case involving sexual assault, almost never is it entirely provable that there was or wasn't consent. It's basically a he-said, she-said, with maybe a bit of hearsay evidence thrown in somewhere.
And we want these cases reported, because if there's one thing that helps everyone, it's to stop people actually committing sexual assault. When victims are able to talk themselves out of reporting, for whatever reason, these scumbags aren't stopped, and continue to find more victims - they may even escalate to do even WORSE things to future victims. Look at the Jian Ghomeshi case. The dude got away with what he did for YEARS, because there were vague murmurs about him but no one came forward. Why? Well, look at what happened when someone finally did: people didn't believe it, they defended Ghomeshi, and it took, what, a dozen women with similar stories before people started taking it seriously? No one wanted to go up against him, either because they were afraid it would hurt their careers or because he's powerful and well connected and has more money than they do. No one should ever get to a point where they've managed to sexually assault 18 people (that we know of so far, and I haven't checked, there could be more now) before anyone did anything about it.
The additional point is, if you threaten punishment, is it actually going to produce fewer cases of false accusations? I mean, when people do this, they're obviously either psychopaths, or aren't thinking rationally. Someone who's willing to falsely accuse another person of raping them, presumably to get back at them or to avoid responsibility, is doing so because of an emotional reaction. Those are precisely the circumstances where deterrent by threatened prosecution is LEAST effective - people acting emotionally just don't consider the consequences. Later, when they calm down and think it through, they may come to a different conclusion, and often do. When you hear about these false accusation cases it's often the victim who later admits they lied. As was said above, those cases of accusers coming clean later about lying drop to basically zero if you threaten prosecution - no one will ever incriminate themselves by fessing up like that. So the false accusations you DO manage to prevent will be largely offset by the cases where someone might recant but no longer will.
The instant reaction to the spectre of false sexual assault complaints is to say "PUNISH THEM! MAKE THEM PAY!" It's an understandable emotional response to an unbelievably shitty, awful thing to do. But if doing that will, realistically, do very little to solve the problem you're trying to solve, while simultaneously making a larger problem worse, it's just a bad idea. This is why policymakers respond to problems logically and thoughtfully, rather than emotionally.
DasGoatenshafter
Member
I once had a girl "sign" a verbal contract before committing floorcest. I said "this is a one-time fun-time and anything we do in this bed can't be used against me later" because she had a thing for me and I just wanted the sexytimes.
On a more serious note, someone at my school is suing one of the faculty student associations as well as an individual for defamation. He was ripped to shreds all over social media over rape allegations, and forced to step down from his position on the student association. The people involved never filed any legal complaints though.
I think that rape is an awful thing, and victims should never feel responsible for what happened to them. Its tough though because victims don't always want to press charges, so creeps go free, and lots of times its unnatural to say "is it okay for my to penetrate your vagina with my penis please" before getting the sexytimes on.
On campuses the use of alcohol is also abundant and on any given night, half the people making poor decisions and having one night stands are unable to consent legally (male or female) and EVERYONE becomes a rapist. I have a hard time getting onboard with the activists because despite being on their team and not approving of sexual violence, I can't help but feel like under their labels I'd be considered a rapist somehow. I never ask my girlfriend "can we do it now" and I've been drunk for nearly all my random hookups.
Google uOttawa SFUO rape allegations to see what kind of news my school is known for making.
On a more serious note, someone at my school is suing one of the faculty student associations as well as an individual for defamation. He was ripped to shreds all over social media over rape allegations, and forced to step down from his position on the student association. The people involved never filed any legal complaints though.
I think that rape is an awful thing, and victims should never feel responsible for what happened to them. Its tough though because victims don't always want to press charges, so creeps go free, and lots of times its unnatural to say "is it okay for my to penetrate your vagina with my penis please" before getting the sexytimes on.
On campuses the use of alcohol is also abundant and on any given night, half the people making poor decisions and having one night stands are unable to consent legally (male or female) and EVERYONE becomes a rapist. I have a hard time getting onboard with the activists because despite being on their team and not approving of sexual violence, I can't help but feel like under their labels I'd be considered a rapist somehow. I never ask my girlfriend "can we do it now" and I've been drunk for nearly all my random hookups.
Google uOttawa SFUO rape allegations to see what kind of news my school is known for making.
howlongcanausern
Active member
13258190:J.D. said:
no it's not, are you really that naive?
it's a she said "i got raped", dude gets charged with sexual assault. that is not how our justice system is supposed to work.
Scaredwhiteboy
Active member
13258212:momsspaghetti said:
Proving guilt or innocence is he-said, she-said. It's society and overzealous university administrations that assume the allegations to be true without proof. If the justice system could somehow keep the victim and the accused completely anonymous until a verdict is reached, these false accusation issues would mostly disappear.