onenerdykid
Active member
Stoked to pick up this little award!
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[img=]846840[/img]
Thoughts on Atomic Hawx Ultra 130
- Thread starter 1KSheehan
- Start date
onenerdykid
Active member
13752220:.nasty said:
muchos gracias, senor!
onenerdykid
Active member
[img=]847586[/img]
SlowGroove
New member
13733099:onenerdykid said:
So while I am still deciding between the 120 & 130 (thanks for the response on that), I wonder about what I keep hearing from the boot people at the local shops. I have been in three local shops and each time they tell me it is better not to heat mold the shell for a fit, essentially because you might make it too big and can never go back to smaller. The Hawx Ultra feels good on my foot but could use a little more room where my high instep is, for example. One boot fitter suggested I ski the boot as is for four or five days and then come back for fine tuning. That sounds like a lot of unnecessarily pressure-pointed ski-days to me. So: Is heat molding the shell a risk not worth taking, or it is a well-tested path to comfortable, snug, precise boots?
SlowGroove
New member
13720346:onenerdykid said:
Also interested in thoughts on the difference between the Atomic's Hawx Ultra and Redster. From what I can tell, in the same flex rating, the Redster is heavier but both have moldable shell and liners. I know the Hawx Ultra is marketed for all-mountain and the Redster for racing, but other than the weight, does that mean anything to the way they perform?
onenerdykid
Active member
13754738:SlowGroove said:
If the shop knows what they are doing, they can look at your foot inside the shell and be able to tell you if you need it molded or not. If your foot is too close to the shell, you will need it moved away from your foot. It won't be a matter of breaking in because your foot will never move the plastic. If this is the case, then heating the shell is a super good idea. Or if your foot looks good in the shell, then at least the liner should be heat molded.
13754740:SlowGroove said:
Redster Pro has an out-of-the-box racing geometry and a thin liner, both of which are designed for a certain skiing style and snow feel. While it's a cool boot, it's a dying breed- very few people want that type of fit/level of comfort anymore.
Think of it this way. Both are 98mm wide, but they are vastly different 98s and also approach that fit from two completely different angles. Redster Pro is a wide version of a World Cup race boot- bare bones and totally performance oriented. Hawx Ultra is a narrow version of our most successful and comfortable fit The degree of warmth, cushioning, and out of the box fit greatly leans in favor of Hawx Ultra. If you were to try both on side by side, you would instantly know what I mean.
Hope that helps!
13754782:onenerdykid said:
2 questions:
Ok so I have Nordica Ace 3 stars atm on my 3rd season with them. Best boots ive ever owned and the only boot that has given me a great fit ( with some bootfitting). I just went in to get a new liner and for them and i was told that these boots are not worth spending any more money on because of their beat to shit condition and they refused to help me work on them to to. Compensate for my existing liners with some grinding in the toebox and such. Is this normal? I have 250+ days on them with multiple replacement parts but i didnt think they would turn down bootwork like they did.
Im broke as absolute fuck atm but tried some new boots on anyway. I saw the hawx ultra 130s and decided to give them a shot since i saw this thread hyping them up. Holy fuck are these rad boots man i am in disbelief. Ive put so many high end boots on my feet and this was the first boot that i 100% knew are rad AND fit well out of box. Ive never been able to wear a 4 buckle without instep pressure until now so props on that. You guys made that boot fit amazingly in all the right places for my foot except the toebox which is where im curious about expansion limitations. My feet were crammed into the toebox a moderate amount width wise and a slight amount length-wise. Can this be adjusted to make it work? Im seriously hoping it can because this is the first boot ive fallen in love with like this.
onenerdykid
Active member
13754976:parkplayground said:
1. If your boot has 250+ days on it, it's life expectancy has honestly been met. The plastic will have lots of wear and also fatigued (literally clapped out). But usually boots that old can still be worked on. Perhaps they saw something that they thought was a legal risk if they performed work on it? Hard to say without seeing it in hand, but that would be my guess.
2. Thanks man! "Disbelief" is a good way to describe it
There is a lot of hype around this boot but I think you'll agree that it's well earned. The plastic we use in the Ultra series is legit special and it stretches super well. The normal Memory Fit process can't do a lot ahead of the first buckle (the toe box), but if you need to have the toe box punched out or reshaped for your foot, it will easily do it (provided your boot-fitter possesses the required shaping skills and tools). The rest of the shell and cuff will easily adapt to your foot & leg shape through the normal Memory Fit process.13755018:onenerdykid said:2. Thanks man! "Disbelief" is a good way to describe it
What are the biggest differences between the liner of the 130 and the 120 and how comparable are they?
onenerdykid
Active member
13755718:parkplayground said:
No construction difference- they're both Platinum level liners. Only the accent colors are different to match the rest of the boot.
ROBOT
Member
I really want this boot! But Idk what flex I would like best. I purchased my first 120s last season (atomic redster pro 120s), and they are giving me problems the more I use them. I did try the Hawx Ultra 120s on in a shop and they felt great, but the lighter weight 130s seems more appealing.
onenerdykid
Active member
13756059:ROBOT said:
The fit between the 130 and the 120 is exactly the same (same liner) but the 130 uses the Grilamid cuff which (as you noted) is lighter but it's also more temperature stable than the standard PU cuff of the 120. That will come in handy during the super cold and super warm months. The feel of the 120 will fluctuate a bit more, the feel of the 130 will be more stable in a wider variety of temperatures.
KDicySouthEast
New member
Have the 120's and love them, and using a bootfitter is right up there w/ boot choice alone.
So the local REI had the 120's on the wall in my size, and I decided to try and slip them on. I was wear beacause I had always kid of considered myelf kind of a fat foot, and worried about any last under 100mm. I was pretty surprised the these things felt damn good out of the box. And that was without my footbeds, and I was wearing a shitty sock. good amount of room in the forefoot, toes did not feel smashed. Will consult with my bootfitter at Evo, but these might be in my future if there is no viable Ace replacement.
onenerdykid
Active member
13757788:Session said:
The plastic we use in the lower shell is more stretchable than normal PU. I have been honestly surprised with the kinds of feet I have comfortably molded in an Ultra- feet I would not be overly promising on with other 98mm boots. If they feel pretty ok out of the box, they will easily adapt to your footshape through Memory Fit. We communicate 4mm of widening, but I've personally seen them move a solid 6-8mm (if needed) once the shells are heated.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
So when is the touring version coming out and how's the walk-mode gonna be? 
13755963:onenerdykid said:
I tossed the 120's on the other day and the bootfitters told me some things I never knew about my anatomy. The biggest issue I have in most boots I try on is that I have a massive range of ankle motion that has never been addressed, so I can't be in a boot that has much forward lean. The bootfitter even told me that for my next pair of boots, he is going to drop the heel to a negative degree to actually activate my ankle when I flex which I have never properly done in a boot without crushing it. I was flexing the 120s pretty well to the point that he suggested the 130s at a minimum which I was excited about, but sad about because money.
For the people following this little process (S.O. to Session)
my foot is 99 last on the right foot and 101 on the left and there was no fitting issues minus the previously addressed toebox in a 26.5
the entire boot is actually shorter than my Ace's so I may or may not need a remount on atleast 2 pairs of skis so don't get these after you mount new skis.
there is no shock absorbers in the boots (hard plastic footbed, hard plastic spoiler, etc) which probably won't be a problem, but any shock absorbing features I can get help me because of a fucked up back.
onenerdykid
Active member
13757975:.MASSHOLE. said:So when is the touring version coming out and how's the walk-mode gonna be?
Patience, young Skywalker... In about a month, we will blow everyone's minds. That's a promise.
13757986:parkplayground said:
The 110, 120, and 130 models all have the ability to adjust forward lean from 13° (rather upright) to 15° (standard) to 17° (rather aggressive). Combine this with your boot-fitter tweaking the boot board/ramp angle and you should easily be able to find the perfect geometry for your ankle range of motion.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13758368:onenerdykid said:
Bah. If it has the same fitting abilities as the Backland...I don't want to have to wait until next year. I need new boots soon ha.
MinK
New member
On the issue of Mach1 v Hawx Ultra. I am on the market for new boots, I am tall and thin legged guy and most of the ski boots are just too wide for me. I skied Mach1 90 (which are MV) for the last two seasons, but they are too wide and too soft for me. I am looking for stiffer boots now for this season.
I was excited about the Hawx Ultra, and today I went to try them. The shop only had 100 flex in my size 29.5. The look of the boot is very cool and the lower weight is noticeable.
The entry was easy enough and initial fit seemed very good. The liner (Silver on the 100 flex), however, seemed very soft. So soft that it seems to be crushed even when putting in my leg. It did not look very durable. Flex of the boot also seemed on the softer side.
Then after spending few minutes in the boot I‘ve started developing sharp pain on top of my cuboid bones (above second buckle). Frankly, I spent maybe 10 mins in the boots and I felt pain for a while.
Not sure whether to give them another try.
I would really be interested to hear from someone who has tried Hawx Ultra and Mach1 LV.
I was excited about the Hawx Ultra, and today I went to try them. The shop only had 100 flex in my size 29.5. The look of the boot is very cool and the lower weight is noticeable.
The entry was easy enough and initial fit seemed very good. The liner (Silver on the 100 flex), however, seemed very soft. So soft that it seems to be crushed even when putting in my leg. It did not look very durable. Flex of the boot also seemed on the softer side.
Then after spending few minutes in the boot I‘ve started developing sharp pain on top of my cuboid bones (above second buckle). Frankly, I spent maybe 10 mins in the boots and I felt pain for a while.
Not sure whether to give them another try.
I would really be interested to hear from someone who has tried Hawx Ultra and Mach1 LV.
onenerdykid
Active member
13767074:MinK said:
I would be very wary of other people's opinions on fit. They don't have your foot, so any advice they give you on how well/poorly any particular boot fits is specific to them. Someone might hate either of them, but they could still be perfect for you.
Concerning the Ultra in particular, you need to be aware that the entire shell, cuff, and liner are heat moldable and will shape to your foot. The plastic material used in Ultra is very unique in the boot world and stretches far better than other plastics out there. You should discuss this point with your boot-fitter to see if that will help with your specific foot shape. Having seen the shell expand about 8mm in width, I more than confident it will adapt to a skinny, boney foot. But, your fitter should ultimately be the one making that call.
Just tried on the 110s at a shop and really liked the fit they were just a bit soft for my liking. They only carry up to the 110 so I am waiting till I head out west to potentially buy the 130. Just curious if I should expect the same fit or even an improvement if I try the 130s or 120s based on liner upgrade and such?
Also what are the chances of shops being out of stock come March? Should I be worried about a limited selection of sizes?
I plan to let the boot fitter fit me with what's right but I think these will work nicely. I tried descendants as well and they just felt too roomy, they were out of my size for the twall and the classic so I couldn't go narrower on the FTs. I'm currently on ace of spades which I've modified a bit to make them fit more snug, purchased them majorly on sale and never had them fit.
Also what are the chances of shops being out of stock come March? Should I be worried about a limited selection of sizes?
I plan to let the boot fitter fit me with what's right but I think these will work nicely. I tried descendants as well and they just felt too roomy, they were out of my size for the twall and the classic so I couldn't go narrower on the FTs. I'm currently on ace of spades which I've modified a bit to make them fit more snug, purchased them majorly on sale and never had them fit.
13769333:Auschie said:
As far as the Aces go, I had to do the same thing but with actual bootfitting and these boots (120) are... An upgrade. Never thought id say that but damn its true these boots are amazing.
One thing to onenerdy though. These boots have crazy thin plastic to reduce weight. Its super nice, but for park ive already scratched a good amount of material from the inside foot aea from edges. Is there any chance that you will put a higher density plastic, a durable covering, or something to extend the life of the plastic in that region? I havent seen it on any boots before and always thought it wpuld be a great marketing tool and a great tech to use that has actual practicality.
onenerdykid
Active member
13769333:Auschie said:
Very likely. Atomic USA is completely sold out of Ultra 130s, and I'm pretty sure the other models are too. Whatever stock the dealers have is it until next fall.
13769335:parkplayground said:
Thanks for the feedback! The plastic is actually a step up from our "standard" race-grade polyurethane. It can take a beating and keep on kicking. Over the summer, LSM sent us his boots that he used over the winter (about 120 days) and they looked like they just came back from D-Day. But, they were still totally functioning. As with all things that can wear out, just keep an eye on it and try your best to improve things wherever possible in order to maximize their life. But keep me posted on how it goes. Super stoked to hear you dig the boots!
onenerdykid
Active member
13770732:MinK said:
Happy New Year!
This plastic can easily be molded with traditional heating & stretching methods. Plus the plastic more easily and holds a punch better than normal polyurethane (PU). Even in the heel pocket or toe box.
The only thing you want to be careful of is grinding. You'll only be able to grind a 1-2mm before you remove too much material. Just stick with stretching, you'll be able to shape the plastic super easily and get a perfect result.
adrian.bee
Active member
Interested in trying these as they tick all my initial boxes, but it doesn't look like my local boot fitter carries them. (Larry's, Boulder CO)
Is it worth trying them at a not-so-trusted shop? (ie. CO ski & golf / christies?
Is it worth trying them at a not-so-trusted shop? (ie. CO ski & golf / christies?
onenerdykid
Active member
13770982:adrian.bee said:
Larry is an awesome boot-fitter and a really nice guy, but if he's not stocking them then it doesn't hurt to at least try them on elsewhere. The guys at the other shops can at least get you into the right size and you can see how it goes.
onenerdykid
Active member
13771067:matt.rad said:
You get bonus points for rocking the Volts! That was one of the first boots I did with Atomic.
What model of Ultra do you have?
matt.rad
Active member
13771276:onenerdykid said:
I went with the 130s. I actually had the purple and yellow Volts and always wished they were a bit stiffer, so the extra support was a welcomed upgrade. Really easy fitting process too. Cooked the shells in a Salomon oven, dropped in the liner, and used a poor man's version of a vacuum fit system. Crazy to see the shape change. I wish I'd taken before and after pictures.
onenerdykid
Active member
13771290:matt.rad said:
It's pretty sweet, isn't it? The plastic really shapes nicely.
Hi,
I've tried the Hawx ultra 130 and 110 in my local shop and all was ok but over 30min I've started to lose felling under my right foot and the lost of sensation starts on my left foot after 40min. The bootfeater told me he could fix my problem by heating the Pebax and enlarge the plastic at the exterior side. I haven't buy them already, i wondering if it is really possible to do so?
My foot are 28/28.5 long and 105mm width.
Other questions, is it true that the flex won't be harder outside?
By testing the 130 and the 110 boots, my thought was 120 would be nice but they don't have it. So is ok if I unbolt the top screw of the 130 boots to sept down to 120, won't they get used faster?
Thanks
I've tried the Hawx ultra 130 and 110 in my local shop and all was ok but over 30min I've started to lose felling under my right foot and the lost of sensation starts on my left foot after 40min. The bootfeater told me he could fix my problem by heating the Pebax and enlarge the plastic at the exterior side. I haven't buy them already, i wondering if it is really possible to do so?
My foot are 28/28.5 long and 105mm width.
Other questions, is it true that the flex won't be harder outside?
By testing the 130 and the 110 boots, my thought was 120 would be nice but they don't have it. So is ok if I unbolt the top screw of the 130 boots to sept down to 120, won't they get used faster?
Thanks
onenerdykid
Active member
13772831:dustofski said:
In size 28/28.5, the last width is 102mm. So it definitely won't be a problem to get the shell to expand 3mm to fit your foot.
The special PU plastic in the lower shell stiffens by a factor of 1.2 at -20°C, compared to a factor of 5 with traditional PU, and a factor of 2.0 with Grilamid. It will flex and feel noticeably the same at room temp and when skiing.
To your last point, if I understand you correctly, you can turn the 130 into a 120 by removing the top screw & nut from the back of the boot. It does not weaken the boot in any way.
StayAmphibious
Member
Recently picked up the 120s and they are awesome, fit is perfect and they are nice and stiff. I have a booster strap and was wondering if anybody else has put it on and if it is noticeably better. One question for the atomic guys as well, if I put another screw on the back should that make it stiffer as well since I noticed a hole for one more. Thanks!
onenerdykid
Active member
13773366:StayAmphibious said:
Yep, in addition to adding the Booster you can also add the second screw that came in the box. I would ski the boot with the Booster first though, and go from there. Baby steps are better than doing too many things at once and not knowing which thing caused what to happen.
If you do want to add the screw, you have to drill a hole through the cuff & shell. It's easy enough to do- just use the hole in the Power Shift (the carbon, door-shaped piece on the back of the boot) as a guide. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, just have a shop do it.
BrawnTrends
Active member
What are the two black plastic pieces that come in the box of the Ultra 110 for? Reduce cuff volume? Add stiffness?
onenerdykid
Active member
13773665:BrawnTrends said:
If you want to reduce the forward lean of your Ultra (make the cuff more upright) to the 13° setting, you need to place a shim between the cuff and the shell where the rear screws connect the shell to the cuff.
As you move the cuff back to the 13° setting, a gap will appear between the cuff and the shell. The shim fills that space. They are right & left specific.
If it is still attached to the boot, there should be a 1-page hang tag for "POWER SHIFT" and it diagrams the process.
BrawnTrends
Active member
13773668:onenerdykid said:
Ohh ok I see! I was so excited to try them on the mountain that I didn't take the time to read the booklets. I'll take a look at it tonight.
Super boot noob question: what does the forward lean actually change? I'm guessing moving to 17° would put me in a more aggressive position, but what are the benefits of 13° and 17° compared to the "normal" 15° position?
onenerdykid
Active member
13773672:BrawnTrends said:
It changes how you stand and it's part biomechanics and part personal preference. Generally speaking, you should never position the boot with more forward lean than your ankle/Achilles is capable of. This will lead to heel lift, pain, and discomfort.
If you don't have any biomechanical limitations (read: have good dorsiflexion) then you can position the cuff in whichever one feels best. We think 15° is the best starting point for most skiers. Some like more upright, some like more forward (like me).
If you're unsure what to do, don't mess with it, and discuss the options with your boot-fitter who can perform the ankle flexibility tests and find out if you have any flexibility limitations.
BrawnTrends
Active member
13773682:onenerdykid said:
I do have flexibility limitations in one ankle due to an old injury, so I'll just keep them at 15°. Thanks for the answers!
onenerdykid
Active member
13773683:BrawnTrends said:
No worries! If it feels like you are getting heel lift, or your ankle is bouncing around side to side, even when the boot is tight, you might want to try the 13° setting.
Basically, if the forward lean of the boot is too much for you, it will push your leg forward but due to the limitation in your flexibility it will cause your heel to lift. Hard to say without doing a flexibility assessment to find your maximum, but this is what tends to happen in such a scenario.