whetherman
New member
13894586:onenerdykid said:
How does this affect the performance? More reactive to temperature changes? Stiffer? Curious why this change is being made.
Thoughts on Atomic Hawx Ultra 130
- Thread starter 1KSheehan
- Start date
How does this affect the performance? More reactive to temperature changes? Stiffer? Curious why this change is being made.
onenerdykid
Active member
13897847:whetherman said:
Because it was meant to be our lightest boot, and we pulled out all of the steps to attain it. Now that we have Ultra XTD, there's no need to use Grilamid in the normal Ultra range.
onenerdykid
Active member
13897851:Mikha197 said:
Your boot-fitter was definitely not paying attention during a clinic then.
If you walk in any boot where the shell has been heated (Atomic, Salomon, Fischer, etc.), you run two huge risks:
1. warping or twisting the sole and the boot no longer interfaces the binding the right way, which leads to binding release/retention problems.
2. warping the connection points between the cuff and shell, and it will lead to play/slop that cannot be fixed.
Also, buckling the boot tightly will also elongate the buckle mounting point on the shell and allow water to get in, as well as play at the buckle.
That's why we always say to buckle the boot on a loose tension and stand motionless and centered during the molding process.
Is spot heating the Hawx an option (ie heat gun?) I tested a few boots the other night and the Hawx were very good fit oob. Likely I only need a bit of room added in the forefoot that I'm sure heat molding would add that, but I have skinny heels and ankles and they felt perfect so I don't want to risk adding any room there.
onenerdykid
Active member
13899546:ThreeSki said:
Of course. The plastic we use is incredibly moldable and will work via Memory Fit or traditional stretching.
Highly intrigued by this boot for next season, but came across 2 issues upon my research.
- Wet liners at the end of the day; a good amount of owners have this issue and apparently Atomic seems to be aware and supplying parts to create a better seal on the lower shell.
- Cracked shell (https://www.pugski.com/threads/any-issues-with-atomic-hawx-ultra.6176/page-3), hoping it was purely a freak incident, but it's the cuff on the 120 fwiw. Since 130 cuff is Grilamid (for this season at least), are they less prone to such an incident?
Anyone have other issues/complaints? These seem to be getting high praises on the internet, but at the same time this is only the 2nd year in production (?) so I'm trying to get some long(er) term feedback on these.
- Wet liners at the end of the day; a good amount of owners have this issue and apparently Atomic seems to be aware and supplying parts to create a better seal on the lower shell.
- Cracked shell (https://www.pugski.com/threads/any-issues-with-atomic-hawx-ultra.6176/page-3), hoping it was purely a freak incident, but it's the cuff on the 120 fwiw. Since 130 cuff is Grilamid (for this season at least), are they less prone to such an incident?
Anyone have other issues/complaints? These seem to be getting high praises on the internet, but at the same time this is only the 2nd year in production (?) so I'm trying to get some long(er) term feedback on these.
cydwhit
Active member
13904853:OhJay said:
It's been my go-to inbounds boot all season, and I'm on a pair that already has two seasons on them. No durability issues, no complaints. I love mine so much!
My liners always get wet and stanky so I can't comment there. Don't seem any worse than anything else I've skied though.
a_burger
Active member
13904853:OhJay said:
I have a pair of the 130s from the first year of production. Bought them used, both shells had a crack between the lower two buckles. Niether crack has grown and I've never really had wet feet in them aside from my own sweat. This is from someone who skis 6-7 days a week, 3 of those days working 10 hour shifts as a park ranger. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
onenerdykid
Active member
13904853:OhJay said:
During our first production run in 2016, we had a 1% warranty rate with cracked boots. Despite this small percentage (it still amounted to a good number of actual boots), we immediately made modifications to the molds of both the cuff and shell to prevent any such issues from happening in the future. Since the modifications were made, we are holding steady at 0%, and any cracked boots (from an original owner) got replaced with one of these updated boots.
Anything you would buy this year or next year won't suffer the same fate as those early boots.
Greg_K
Member
13904853:OhJay said:
13904979:onenerdykid said:
The Cracked Liners issue was mentioned and as for the issue of leaking shells, that issue has been solved as well in current boots with better weather stripping on the Ultra Line. I have 2 year old Ultra 130 boots with a tiny bit of leaking and going to get the 2017 on weather stripping put on my boots to solve the issue. My GF has 2017/18 Hawx Ultra 80W boots and it has this new improved sealing and there is no leaking issue on her boots. First boots that she actually finds comfortable.
So don't hesitate to jump on these fantastic boots. Love mine!
cory.iyoob
Member
How much will shell molding change these boots? Would it be good to size these boots down if when you try them on without the heat mold the boot isn’t slightly too wide? Has anyone with skinny legs and thin feet tried these boots?
BrawnTrends
Active member
13905973:cory.iyoob said:
Yup. Me (with the 110 flex). Only boot that actually really fits me, with amazing heel hold. I should have close to 80 days in them and they're still as good as they were the first week.
onenerdykid
Active member
13906787:Mikha197 said:
Just cook the shells and then leave them to cool. Put the liners in after the shells have fully cooled down.
onenerdykid
Active member
13907049:Mikha197 said:
Correct
13904979:onenerdykid said:
3 things.
1. Im about to go on my 3rd season on ultra 120s. At this point I can say that this is the best boot I have owned. Amazing boots with great performance and worth the price.
2. This is going to be my 3rd season on them, but it is also my 3rd pair. Although I know that the % of warranties is so little that it is considered 0%, but the shell cracking problem is still happening (to me atleast). I'm not pointing this out to rag on them though. i put over 300 days in those 2 years and they were beat to shit, but absolutely functioning. Still, I cracked my 16/17 boots at the base of the seam at the rubber water block on the toe on each boot and the 17/18 boot had a crack between the 2 middle buckles at what looks like the apex of the flex point would be. Minor cracks, but the crack on the 2nd pair concerned me since I have seen that in some other boots and the crack ended up splitting the boot open.
3. When i was talking to my shop about warranty, they showed me the hawx ultra 120 s (grey). whats the difference between the regular ultra and the ultra s? I put the S on and it felt much roomier but I also haven't put a new boot on my foot in 9 months.
onenerdykid
Active member
13943321:Park. said:
Thanks for the love! Odd that you cracked a 17/18 boot...but it will definitely be covered under our warranty program. If the shop gives you any push back or trouble, just send me a PM.
The "S" refers to any Hawx boots that use Power Shift (the metal part in the back that can adjust forward lean & flex). That's it. It's just a way that people can recognize which boots have or do not have this feature. The fit of the liner is unchanged, it's the same as last year- only color and detailing got updated.
onenerdykid
Active member
13943900:broto said:
Hawx Ultra = 98mm last
Hawx Prime = 100mm last
Both are built using our Prolite construction to save weight but still offer all the performance of "normal" ski boots. Built for the same skier profile, but different foot shape. There is also a Hawx Magna (102mm last) but it still utilizes a standard shell construction for now.
onenerdykid
Active member
13945015:rudolph said:
Shot you a PM - let's figure out what went wrong and make sure you're sorted out.
onenerdykid
Active member
13945027:rudolph said:
These are all first generation boots, these are not updated boots from the 17/18 production. Unfortunately, these are still boots from the early production run. If you look at any boot that is updated, you will see physical construction differences that do not allow the breakages you experienced to happen again. No new boots will suffer the same fate as yours did.
BrawnTrends
Active member
13945027:rudolph said:
Statistically, even if you broke 4 different boots, they're still in the 0% range, considering they probably sell thousands of boots every year.
passeparici
New member
@onenerdykid
Hello, I know it is the Atomic Hawx Ultra 130 thread but I will ask my question here about the Atomic Redster Club Sport 110 here because Onenerdykid is the specialist. I just bought them and think they are a bit stiff. There is only one screw at the back of each shoe : I have been told I can take out this screw and the shoes will be a bit less stiff, but I also have read that you could only take out a screw if 2 screws were there (like in the 130 I think), is that the case (if I take out the only screw left, there are no screw anymore) ? I can see the small plastic part to add some forward lean stay there with this screw... Thanks
Hello, I know it is the Atomic Hawx Ultra 130 thread but I will ask my question here about the Atomic Redster Club Sport 110 here because Onenerdykid is the specialist. I just bought them and think they are a bit stiff. There is only one screw at the back of each shoe : I have been told I can take out this screw and the shoes will be a bit less stiff, but I also have read that you could only take out a screw if 2 screws were there (like in the 130 I think), is that the case (if I take out the only screw left, there are no screw anymore) ? I can see the small plastic part to add some forward lean stay there with this screw... Thanks
onenerdykid
Active member
13946493:passeparici said:
Hey man, you want to keep the bottom screw in the cuff still but have the shell softened by a competent boot-fitter. Not every shop can do this, so check with them first or seek out a shop that is known for fitting race boots and they can soften the flex to exactly what you need.
passeparici
New member
Another question (nothing else to do it is not yet the ski season here !) (and I am still spoiling the thread as it is for the Redster Clus Sport). Has those shoes the same PU as the Hawx Ultra ? The one that allows the flex to stay pretty much the same whatever the outside temperature ?
Just for information : I bought the Club Sport because my heels are slim but I have a high instep. In the Hawx Ultra I was not sure it was holding my heels correctly but in the Club Sport I was perfect every where and quite tight in the heels parts. The only thing is I bought them in 25/25,5 and there is an inch at the back of the feet when the liner is off. I am afraid it can be to big after a while. The 24,5 was perfect also but my small toes (not sure of the word) where touching the front of the liner...
Just for information : I bought the Club Sport because my heels are slim but I have a high instep. In the Hawx Ultra I was not sure it was holding my heels correctly but in the Club Sport I was perfect every where and quite tight in the heels parts. The only thing is I bought them in 25/25,5 and there is an inch at the back of the feet when the liner is off. I am afraid it can be to big after a while. The 24,5 was perfect also but my small toes (not sure of the word) where touching the front of the liner...
onenerdykid
Active member
13947308:passeparici said:
No stress, but if you have a question in the future you can totally make a new thread for it and I will see it. Trust me
The Redster series of boots does not share the same PU as Hawx Ultra. The racers have tested the Hawx Ultra plastic (and a few use it), but they in general prefer the feel of our "traditional" PU and this is why we use it in Redster- we give you what the racers use. One thing to remember- these racers claim to feel differences in color within the same exact plastic. Their awareness to even the slightest change is light years beyond any of ours. I agree it would be nice to have the temperature stable PU, but they prefer the more traditional kind currently.
If you truly have 25.4 mm behind your heel in a shell fit, this is generally on the big side... These boots are heavy because they are thick, and they are thick because you can grind away lots of material in order to make space for the foot. In the 24/24.5, you will have a 15.4mm shell fit, which is more performance oriented and will not fit perfectly/comfortably out of the box but it can easily be made to fit comfortably in the hands of a proper boot-fitter.
**This post was edited on Oct 3rd 2018 at 1:56:06pm
^This AF.
Also, I'm not even a pro racer or anything, but I can no shit tell the difference between the white pigment plastic used on Rossignol's race boots, and the Blue pigment plastic used on Lange's. They are otherwise the same boot in every other way, but the torsional flex, and the way the spine rebounds is totally different - or at least it is in my mind.
I have even heard that the Dynastar/Lange guys were painting the Rossignol boots blue and slapping Lange logos on them because the flex worked better for them. Which I find pretty hilarious.
Also, I'm not even a pro racer or anything, but I can no shit tell the difference between the white pigment plastic used on Rossignol's race boots, and the Blue pigment plastic used on Lange's. They are otherwise the same boot in every other way, but the torsional flex, and the way the spine rebounds is totally different - or at least it is in my mind.
I have even heard that the Dynastar/Lange guys were painting the Rossignol boots blue and slapping Lange logos on them because the flex worked better for them. Which I find pretty hilarious.
onenerdykid
Active member
13947435:DingoSean said:
Well, you can't be sure they are the same exact material and that it's only the white or blue that's different. When I try these boots on, I completely agree that they feel noticeably different and to me, it feels like a different material or material mixture. When talking about PU, there are at least 5-6 different types that can be used and from those types are a mind-numbing combination of hardnesses that can be configured. What constitutes these specific materials and their combinations usually doesn't make it out of the R&D room. Brands will often refer to them as PU or even Polyether, but even that is often too general to know what characteristics the boot will have.
The next factor is the master badge (the color pigment). In order to arrive at a desired color hue, different percentages of master badge will be used. This is normally between 2-5%. So, adding more master badge (even of the same color) can affect the behavior of the plastic, sometimes catastrophically and the boot can crack due to the color selected or if the percentage goes too high. This is why brands no longer use true neon colors- they cause the plastic to literally explode. Anyone remember the regrettably named Tecnica Explosions?
When I try exact materials (same material, same hardness configuration) in different colors, the difference between them is less than a production tolerance, so even then it could be a production tolerance and not the effect of color that I am feeling. To say that color is the difference you feel is totally possible, but in my opinion very unlikely when all other variables are the same.
Turnfarmer
Member
Are GripWalk sole pieces available for Ultras this season?
onenerdykid
Active member
13948421:Turnfarmer said:
Yes, but most likely not before December.
onenerdykid
Active member
13956518:Mikha197 said:
Nice! Glad you are loving them!
The "Cantable Grip Pad" is the name for the replaceable grip pad (boot sole) that comes stock on the Hawx Ultra and new Hawx Prime boots. So, if you wear out the grip pads on your Hawx Ultras, you need to order the "Cantable Grip Pad".
The boots/grip pads are compatible with our Canting Shims, that's the reason for their name.
onenerdykid
Active member
13956716:chicken said:
Normal toe thickness. For the 0.5°, you don't need to router but anything more than that you do. We make canting shims up to 3°, which is quite thick, and the toes/heels can be fully routered back to DIN height.
passeparici
New member
Hello, in the "Tech features", it says "3° shell rotation", on some other boots it says "0° shell rotation" : what does that mean ?
onenerdykid
Active member
13959679:passeparici said:
It means that the toe of the boot is abducted (from the heel) at 3°. So the boot stands you slightly duck-footed, just like how you stand normally. 3° translates to about 1.5mm, so it's not a lot. This is found in all of our Hawx boots since 2007.
Redster boots are straight (0°) and the world cup boot technicians keep it as it is or abduct or adduct the boot according to the individual athlete's preferences.
onenerdykid
Active member
13973240:Hoel said:I’ve had the boots (120 flex) for pretty much exactly two years now and I’ve truly fallen in love with them. However, today the side ripped off of the backbone, has anyone had/seen this happen before? Pretty bummed out
View attachment 917736
Take them to your local Atomic dealer and they will get you set up with a new pair that has modifications made to it that ensure this failure doesn't happen again. You'll love the new version even more than the old one
onenerdykid
Active member
13973271:Hoel said:
They shouldn't give you any trouble with it, but if for some reason they do, just hit me up on here and I'll get it sorted for you.
onenerdykid
Active member
13974113:Mikha197 said:
Can you post a picture?
Here it is.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/AnxBVFJUsg99V9GL7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/AnxBVFJUsg99V9GL7